MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dennisch
  • 1,285 comments
  • 79,808 views
Omnis I think that UK is referring to the fact that our media will ignore the fact that many there were about two hundred other people who perished on the plane. Also I personally think that the media uses the grief of the families for their own benefit.
 
Altier146237
Omnis I think that UK is referring to the fact that our media will ignore the fact that many there were about two hundred other people who perished on the plane. Also I personally think that the media uses the grief of the families for their own benefit.
Click to expand...
Exactly and there will probably be less coverage for the non-Americans onboard by the us media.
 
Dotini
The FAA put out a warning in April to avoid the Ukraine airspace. Obviously, Malaysia chose to ignore that warning.

Equally obvious is that it is to almost no one's interest to intentionally shoot down a civilian airliner.

CNN is saying the wreckage came down in rebel held territory, and that the Ukraine government at this point has no access to the crash site.
Click to expand...
The location is critical because no access means no way to investigate the wreckage, and as a result, will make it tougher to determine if the plane was shot down. While it'll be tough to determine if the wreckage was caused by being shot down by a BUK, the massive pieces mean that it is still a possibility the plane was shot down. But regardless of that, we still need to remember that 295 people lost their lives in this disaster.
 
ukfan758
So you're saying that I should go die? Well you're a nice mod...
Click to expand...

Almost 300 people just died and you're saying you're upset that the Americans are going to be covered in the news. Think about how foolish that is.
 
Omnis
Almost 300 people just died and you're saying you're upset that the Americans are going to be covered in the news. Think about how foolish that is.
Click to expand...
READ MY DAMN POSTS AGAIN. I said that the us media will most likely not cover everyone the same (americans more that other countries) I want the victims from all countries to get the same coverage here, meaning americans, Malaysians, Dutch citizens, should get equal coverage ... You are misinterpreting my posts.
 
ukfan758
Joy, now the us media is going to obsess over only the Americans on the plane being killed and not the others... I don't mean to sound like a sick person but it is ridiculous how in every terrible tragedy, only the Americans are talked about in depth while people from other countries get a footnote (ex: 10 Malaysians killed). Everyone should get equal reporting.
Click to expand...

Give it a rest, this isn't the time for a media witch hunt. Of course local news is exactly about what interests the local audience. It's a horrible enough tragedy without worrying about trifles like that.

If you don't think the US media didn't obsess about MH370, you're quite clueless about your angle.
 
Footage from the region and various images show large pieces of debris a long way from the fire/crash site. This strongly suggests that the plane disintegrated in the air, which would be consistent with an explosion or missile strike.
 
G.T.Ace
I know, but it's known that the DPR got hold of pretty modern weapon systems already, including tanks and radar systems, so why not also a Buk? It would also make sense, considering it might've been an accident.
No trained operator would shoot down a civilian airliner by accident.

Not saying it wasn't the Ukraine or Russia though.
Click to expand...
They would have to have all the pieces of the system (though I think the Buk launcher unit might have some stand alone capability with reduced detection performance, and that could be a factor here) linked up and in working order to really use a missile. If they did decide to use it though, a Buk is very obvious compared to smaller weapons and haphazard use of one could end very badly from them if they just have a single launcher and no air support.

On the other hand, they could have intended to use and ditch it or just made a stupid mistake (or more than one).
 
ukfan758
Exactly and there will probably be less coverage for the non-Americans onboard by the us media.
Click to expand...

A harsh way to say it dude, although I know what you mean. Don't limit that to the US though, the same will be true in Britain of the British victims.

ukfan758
Joy, now the us media is going to obsess over only the Americans on the plane being killed and not the others...
Click to expand...

Ah, that's a ****** thing to say.
Exorcet
Missiles aren't precises enough to guarantee a direct hit, even against an airliner moving a straight line. The plane could have been hit such that it was able to limp on for a little while, that could be more likely a direct impact on any of the fuel systems.
Click to expand...

True, but they deto-fragment either in front of or below the target. That 777 had a lot of fuel still so it would only survive such an explosion if it occurred some significant distance from the craft. It wouldn't knock out comms though.

Clearly the focus is on whether or not this was ground-triggered, my instinct is that it isn't, there certainly only seems to be one wreckage site at this time.

The odds of this being an accident are higher although still very very low. What increases that statistical chance is the identity of airline, model of plane and the profile of flight at that time. Both jets were beginning cruise-after-climb, that's a significant statistical factor at this time.

I'd expect air-interference to have broken the plane up more than that. A 777 is literally mass-ive and any reasonably serious surface interruption is going to devastate it.

For now the question is; what ATC data is there?
 
ukfan758
READ MY DAMN POSTS AGAIN. I said that the us media will most likely not cover everyone the same (americans more that other countries) I want the victims from all countries to get the same coverage here, meaning americans, Malaysians, Dutch citizens, should get equal coverage ... You are misinterpreting my posts.
Click to expand...

Coverage egalitarianism is what you care about right now? Really? Just stop.
 
Omnis
Coverage egalitarianism is what you care about right now? Really? Just stop.
Click to expand...
Then what the :censored:ing hell do I say?

How about this: It looks like an anti aircraft machine is the main cause (reports) if what shot the plane down.
 
The odds are this was a tragic mistake by Ukrainian separatists getting their hands on sophisticated technology then misusing it. If so, the question becomes what will happen next? Will the US get more involved? Will Russia get more involved? That would be my guess, and also that it's a very bad development with potential for major repercussions.
 
That's a bad shame. It's just like that of the Korean Air Lines Flight 007 incident, which happened 31 years ago.
 
Touring Mars
Footage from the region and various images show large pieces of debris a long way from the fire/crash site. This strongly suggests that the plane disintegrated in the air, which would be consistent with an explosion or missile strike.
Click to expand...

Hadn't seen that, that was integral to my no-missile theory.

I still think there's a statistical significance that can't be ignored yet; two jets of the same issue, serviced by the same company, each crashing shortly after attaining cruise.

@Dotini, I don't know where you get your odds but I'm not sure that's true. Remember that the "rebels" often have normal military equipment and training, a good number of them are "Territorial Army" type soldiers in reserve.

@ukfan; drop it or retract it, it was a pretty disgusting way to put it. What you said made some sense but sadly you added a combined tone of glee and vitriol that was at best silly and at worst revolting.
 
Dotini
The odds are this was a tragic mistake by Ukrainian separatists getting their hands on sophisticated technology then misusing it. If so, the question becomes what will happen next? Will the US get more involved? Will Russia get more involved? That would be my guess, and also that it's a very bad development with potential for major repercussions.
Click to expand...
I think it is a little early to start speculating on the repercussions, as we still are lacking a complete picture. There is still the potential of one of several parties being responsible for what took place.
 
A tweet showed up from one of the Ukrainian government members that it was a terroristic act. (Was on NBC) This is most likely speculation/finger pointing and not official.
 
Sadly, I think we're going to get a lot of finger-pointing over which side of the conflict (if any) is responsible.
 
ukfan758
A tweet showed up from one of the Ukrainian government members that it was a terroristic act. (Was on NBC) This is most likely speculation/finger pointing and not official.
Click to expand...

Terrorism seems an unlikely explanation. Who would want to claim responisbility? More likely it was a mistake.
 
Possible picture of the plane after taking off (on nbc)
image.jpg
 
ukfan758
A tweet showed up from one of the Ukrainian government members that it was a terroristic act. (Was on NBC) This is most likely speculation/finger pointing and not official.
Click to expand...

Same from lots of people.
 
Latest pictures are showing what looks like streamers of paper several meters long and various other small pieces of debris raining down from the sky... again, not possible if the plane simply crashed.

The Ukrainian president has called the Dutch leader and invited Dutch investigators to inspect the crash site. That was a good move, because it will limit the possibility of Russia or pro-Russian rebels attempting to prevent an investigation.

He is absolutely clear that this was no accident - however, I don't know how he can possibly say that it was a 'terrorist act' without knowing the facts. It is understandable why he may wish to blame pro-Russian separatists for a deliberate act of terrorism, but it seems far more likely/plausible that pro-Russian rebels have shot down the plane in error. Don't hold your breath waiting on anyone admiting to that, though.
 
Last edited:
Exorcet
They would have to have all the pieces of the system (though I think the Buk launcher unit might have some stand alone capability with reduced detection performance, and that could be a factor here) linked up and in working order to really use a missile. If they did decide to use it though, a Buk is very obvious compared to smaller weapons and haphazard use of one could end very badly from them if they just have a single launcher and no air support.

On the other hand, they could have intended to use and ditch it or just made a stupid mistake (or more than one).
Click to expand...
Of course it's not like in Battlefield, where you hop in and press a button, but there's nothing that proves the seperatists aren't responsible. If it got shot down, it must've been by something like a Buk (I'm sure another plane for example would've been reported already) and it's the most common GTAM system in that region.
 
CNN showed an amateur video of the crash. Crash site is way off in the distance from where the video was being filmed and all that can be seen is a post-crash fireball.
 

Latest Posts

Back