MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

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Here is an open question to consider, if the separatists are responsible for the attack, then how the hell did Putin know before the rest of the world did and made a brief mention to it to dummy in chief?
 
Latest pictures are showing what looks like streamers of paper several meters long and various other small pieces of debris raining down from the sky... again, not possible if the plane simply crashed.

I'm inclined to agree now, but if so then it's some kind of horrible coincidence.

Supposedly the same twitter source that announced last week's shoot-down also reported shooting down "another government plane".

Looking at the wreckage there's a clear separation between empannage/rear-fuselage and the main body (the wing roots and engines are at the main crash site). That's not to say that the plane was brought down by ground fire but it goes to a sudden disruptive event.

Jesus.

EDIT: Thinking about it, there is also an air alert involving electronic devices in the face of a "clear and present threat".

@Sanji Himura , the Russians weren't aware "before anyone else", they were aware early but so were most authorities. The Russians probably saw it go down on their radar just as we did.
 
Here is an open question to consider, if the separatists are responsible for the attack, then how the hell did Putin know before the rest of the world did and made a brief mention to it to dummy in chief?
According to what I have been reading and hearing that the Russian Air controllers reported the problem to their supervisors and their reports made their way up the chain to Putin.
 
According to what I have been reading and hearing that the Russian Air controllers reported the problem to their supervisors and their reports made their way up the chain to Putin.
It is also possible the missile was launched from Russia proper. If so, it will be up to Obama and Putin to avoid WWIII in the teeth of outrage. But that should be easy for those two.
 
Guys, I saw some report from the DPR militia that they have taken down a Ukrainian An-26 transport plane. But... they could have confused the type of the plane they shot. Videos of the "shot An-26":



Here is an open question to consider, if the separatists are responsible for the attack, then how the hell did Putin know before the rest of the world did and made a brief mention to it to dummy in chief?
Easily. Ukraine is closer to Russia than to the "rest of the world" that you mean.
 
A Dutch passenger jokingly posted a photo of the plane while at the airport with the comment: If it dissappears, this is how it looks like.
 
Here's the struggle in my head (as if you all care :) ).

Two jets of the same type from the same company crash at the same point in the flight profile.

The problem is that I genuinely believe the first was human-led and it appears credible that the second was too.

But those kinds of coincidences just don't happen, do they?

Seems they might. I just tried to find out if Boeing are treating it as a crash, seems for now they are but they aren't mobilising the "grab" crew. That says to me they don't think it's a crash but I have no source to show you.

It would still be interesting to wonder if this was in fact linked to the airline threat of the last few weeks, the assumption has been that this was an Al-Quaeeeeeda threat but notably no-one's actually said that.

A Dutch passenger jokingly posted a photo of the plane while at the airport with the comment: If it dissappears, this is how it looks like.

Shades of the Delta flight where the pilots jokingly left messages for loved ones on the CVR "in case we crash". Ha ha.

Link. This isn't nice listening at the end, be warned.
 
A Dutch passenger jokingly posted a photo of the plane while at the airport with the comment: If it dissappears, this is how it looks like.
Could you please link to a source. The fact that someone posted this is really disturbing, and rather eerie.
 
Someone translate what this post says: someone browsing 4chan (don't go there, he said it's stuffed with gore photos from this) sent it to me: could the Dutchman in the tweet have predicted it? If this is real, that's creepy...

image.jpg
 
What increases that statistical chance is the identity of airline, model of plane and the profile of flight at that time. Both jets were beginning cruise-after-climb, that's a significant statistical factor at this time.

I'd expect air-interference to have broken the plane up more than that. A 777 is literally mass-ive and any reasonably serious surface interruption is going to devastate it.

For now the question is; what ATC data is there?

I agree, what sticks out the most right now is that it's a MA flight.

Of course it's not like in Battlefield, where you hop in and press a button, but there's nothing that proves the seperatists aren't responsible. If it got shot down, it must've been by something like a Buk (I'm sure another plane for example would've been reported already) and it's the most common GTAM system in that region.
It's not just about the simplicity in operating the system, but the reasons for using it. A lone SAM is easy prey for a modern military, unlike guerrilla weapons. If they happen to have one, or a few, I don't see why they would just go about shooting things up. I can't rule anything out of course.
 
Here's the struggle in my head (as if you all care :) ).

Two jets of the same type from the same company crash at the same point in the flight profile.

The problem is that I genuinely believe the first was human-led and it appears credible that the second was too.

But those kinds of coincidences just don't happen, do they?

Seems they might. I just tried to find out if Boeing are treating it as a crash, seems for now they are but they aren't mobilising the "grab" crew. That says to me they don't think it's a crash but I have no source to show you.

It would still be interesting to wonder if this was in fact linked to the airline threat of the last few weeks, the assumption has been that this was an Al-Quaeeeeeda threat but notably no-one's actually said that.
Perhaps it is just a rather rare, strange and unlikely coincidence. I wonder how it is going to be possible to investigate what happened considering the ongoing civil war.
 
Here's the struggle in my head (as if you all care :) ).

Two jets of the same type from the same company crash at the same point in the flight profile.

The problem is that I genuinely believe the first was human-led and it appears credible that the second was too.

But those kinds of coincidences just don't happen, do they?

Seems they might. I just tried to find out if Boeing are treating it as a crash, seems for now they are but they aren't mobilising the "grab" crew. That says to me they don't think it's a crash but I have no source to show you.

It would still be interesting to wonder if this was in fact linked to the airline threat of the last few weeks, the assumption has been that this was an Al-Quaeeeeeda threat but notably no-one's actually said that.

TenEightyOne gotta noggin! Yes, it would in the interests of certain extremists to foment conflict between erstwhile Christian nations, much as we have fomented conflict between Islamic states.
 
Someone translate what this post says: someone browsing 4chan (don't go there, he said it's stuffed with gore photos from this) sent it to me: could the Dutchman in the tweet have predicted it? If this is real, that's creepy...

No it isn't, not when you think of all the number of photographed planes that people make similar jokes about which don't crash. You're presuming a data set of One Thing :)

Just hearing from Aunty that an FDR has been located. On that model it's on the upper fuselage just forward of the empannage crown, could be at either "main" site.
 
That's the picture.

Someone translate what this post says: someone browsing 4chan (don't go there, he said it's stuffed with gore photos from this) sent it to me: could the Dutchman in the tweet have predicted it? If this is real, that's creepy...

View attachment 187986

And it's real. I checked the guys facebook. Pretty grim.
 
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No it isn't, not when you think of all the number of photographed planes that people make similar jokes about which don't crash. You're presuming a data set of One Thing :)

Just hearing from Aunty that an FDR has been located. On that model it's on the upper fuselage just forward of the empannage crown, could be at either "main" site.
That's why I said " if this is real" at the end of the comment.
 
I agree, what sticks out the most right now is that it's a MA flight.


It's not just about the simplicity in operating the system, but the reasons for using it. A lone SAM is easy prey for a modern military, unlike guerrilla weapons. If they happen to have one, or a few, I don't see why they would just go about shooting things up. I can't rule anything out of course.
Because they're idiots who did this without thinking for a second.
A lot of the rebels aren't trained soldiers. The only explanation why the Ukraine could've shot it down, would be that they want to blame the seperatists for it, but I don't think they would go that far (yet).
I still think it was a mistake, by people who don't know what they were doing.

EDIT: Blackbox supposed to be in the hands of the rebels, according to BBC World.
 
I don't have a source handy but I've read that that plane has a different callsign than the one that crashed.
 
Blegh. I just read the comments that go with that photo. Disturbing. Really.
 
Someone translate what this post says: someone browsing 4chan (don't go there, he said it's stuffed with gore photos from this) sent it to me: could the Dutchman in the tweet have predicted it? If this is real, that's creepy...

No it isn't, not when you think of all the number of photographed planes that people make similar jokes about which don't crash. You're presuming a data set of One Thing :)

Just hearing from Aunty that an FDR has been located. On that model it's on the upper fuselage just forward of the empannage crown, could be at either "main" site.

That's why I said " if this is real" at the end of the comment.

Sorry, you're not having a good day :)

I don't doubt it's real, the photo and the joke are perfectly credible, people joke like that all the time. I was answering your claim that it's "creepy", the odds are that eventually it will happen due to human nature. I wasn't questioning your judgment (or mine) as to the tweet's credibility :D
 
FOX now reports a BUK missile system was seized by separatists from a Ukrainian base.
 

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