MINI Countryman; Paceman in 2012, WRC Edition

  • Thread starter Thread starter Joey D
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Looks the same to me as it did before. Looking forward to seeing the final, unveiled production model, and then I'd look forward even more to seeing it with some chunky off-road wheels and tyres.
 
Meh, there's nowt wrong with the Clubman to my eyes. Even more so in the States where at least the asymmetrical rear door opens on the correct side for passengers to step out onto the pavement when you park.
 
Four doors and an actual hatch; or 2.5 doors and those annoying swinging hatches that everyone hates when they are put on Land Rovers which were clearly put on the Clubman to piss people off? Doesn't seem like much of a contest to me, especially if the Clubman+ isn't supposed to be much bigger than the Clubman Lite.
 
This is an SUV like the SX4 is a Crossover: it's really just a slightly lifted large hatch. I could see this being a neat gravel-course car, though: will BMW offer a 2.0 Turbo? Something for, say, WRC competition?
 
The reason the Clubman has swinging rear doors is to be like the Countryman, the only reason it was not called the same thing was the BMW couldn't be bothered to purchase the naming rights.
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Doubt a 2.0T, the 1.6L is good for over 200hp which is more than enough for a small SUV thing.
 
Toronado
Four doors and an actual hatch; or 2.5 doors and those annoying swinging hatches that everyone hates when they are put on Land Rovers which were clearly put on the Clubman to piss people off? Doesn't seem like much of a contest to me, especially if the Clubman+ isn't supposed to be much bigger than the Clubman Lite.
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To be honest I'd still take the Clubman over any Crossover, much as I like the idea of the crossover. The rear passenger "door" wouldn't annoy me much as I rarely carry rear passengers, and the twin boot doors would block out the stray light from all the dorks with badly adjusted headlights. Fair enough, it would block daytime visibility too but that's why they provide three mirrors. Design wise I can't think of any Land Rover that has a twin side-opening tailgate. Some have a single side-opening tailgate and others a twin upper/lower divided tailgate, but that's it. The arrangement seems to work fairly well on vans so it doesn't bother me too much. What I do know is that they make a lovely quality "thunk" when you shut them.

EDIT: That old Countryman is gorgeous
 
The rear view mirror visibility on the Clubman is bad because of the split rear doors but the wing mirrors are fine in the car. I think you could learn to live with it quite quickly if you bought one.
 
homeforsummer
If only I had the money to test that theory!
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I don't know how it works in the UK but couldn't you do a test drive? Here in the US anyone can walk into a MINI dealer, give them a copy of your driver's license and you can go have fun. The dealer car at Motor City MINI has a couple thousand miles on it from just test drives so it gets used quite a bit.
 
homeforsummer
The rear passenger "door" wouldn't annoy me much as I rarely carry rear passengers
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Then why bother with the Clubman at all?

homeforsummer
Design wise I can't think of any Land Rover that has a twin side-opening tailgate. Some have a single side-opening tailgate
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I meant the side opening tailgate in general.

Joey D
The reason the Clubman has swinging rear doors is to be like the Countryman, the only reason it was not called the same thing was the BMW couldn't be bothered to purchase the naming rights.
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I understand that, but it doesn't make it any less annoying. I've driven a Suburban with barn doors, and it is annoying as hell to drive.
Besides, I think there is a line when you start implementing features just for the sake of doing so rather than any logical reason; and the Clubman blew past that line by a country mile in so many places (in some cases not even for the sake of being unabashedly retro). I personally wish they would have just built this crossover thing with all of the AWD/ride raising things removed and called it something else rather than bother with the Clubman.
 
I was replying to this post:
Toronado
Four doors and an actual hatch; or 2.5 doors and those annoying swinging hatches that everyone hates when they are put on Land Rovers which were clearly put on the Clubman to piss people off? Doesn't seem like much of a contest to me, especially if the Clubman+ isn't supposed to be much bigger than the Clubman Lite.
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It seemed like you were saying MINI just did it to piss people off, I was just showing that they did it for retro sake.

Like I said once you drive it a couple of times you hardly notice it. Sure driving something like that once or twice it will bother you. Everytime I'm at the MINI dealer for service, warranty work, talk with my salesmen, sponsored events, whatever I ask to drive something. I've driven the Clubman probably 4 times by now and it's not really that big of a PITA anymore. I think if I owned one it would bug my for a week max.

The reason for the Clubman was for BMW to make more money off the MINI brand. I honestly can't blame them.
 
Joey D
It seemed like you were saying MINI just did it to piss people off,
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That was in jest. The only thing that they really did with the Clubman to piss people off is the "not really a door" side door.

Joey D
The reason for the Clubman was for BMW to make more money off the MINI brand. I honestly can't blame them.
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I understand that, but I personally have less problems with the Mini Crossover than I have with the Clubman for various reasons I have already explained countless times before.
 
Toronado
Then why bother with the Clubman at all?
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'Cos I prefer it to the regular MINI, and I happen to like the rear doors :D

I meant the side opening tailgate in general.
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You'd have to be about 7ft tall to reach a regular "hatch" tailgate on something like a Range Rover or Discovery. A nice compromise is the top/bottom split, but I suspect they've tried this on certain models and discovered it doesn't always work.
 
homeforsummer
'Cos I prefer it to the regular MINI, and I happen to like the rear doors :D
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Your insanity is not my problem. What next, liking the Avantime?

homeforsummer
You'd have to be about 7ft tall to reach a regular "hatch" tailgate on something like a Range Rover or Discovery. A nice compromise is the top/bottom split, but I suspect they've tried this on certain models and discovered it doesn't always work.
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GM doesn't seem to have any problem with it. Nor, for that matter, does Land Rover.
 
The best GM design was on the Tahoes, Suburbans, and Blazers (and their GMC counterparts) with the flip up glass and flip down tailgate, like on our '99 Tahoe. It's great because you can sit on the tailgate like a pickup (great for watching fireworks, tailgating parties, etc) and if you're loading something heavy you don't have to lean in to set it down.
 
...Not at all the MINI dealers. Here at Sharpe they were asking for money down before letting you drive one, which is the wrong way to sell cars.
 
YSSMAN
...Not at all the MINI dealers. Here at Sharpe they were asking for money down before letting you drive one, which is the wrong way to sell cars.
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Except MINI has enough demand that they can get away with it.
 
YSSMAN
...Not at all the MINI dealers. Here at Sharpe they were asking for money down before letting you drive one, which is the wrong way to sell cars.
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Ya that's surprising. Motor City doesn't care who drives their cars, nor does Bavarian BMW right next door. Their philosophy is you aren't going to buy anything or recommend anything without driving it. I understand cutting down on joy rides but the best way to limit that is send out a sales person with the car.

The only dealer around here that to this day won't let me drive a car is the VW one. I think that's pretty much the only reason I didn't get a GTI.

Philly
Except MINI has enough demand that they can get away with it.
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For the time being, you'll see over priced little cars lose demand with the economic down turn.
 
Joey D
For the time being, you'll see over priced little cars lose demand with the economic down turn.
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Or perhaps you could just see people downsizing from getting that Mercedes or BMW to the MINI as the premium car over what they would otherwise get...
 
Philly
I see Hummer ruined themselves by getting full and building a bunch of cars that weren't hummers. Now a Hummer isn't a Hummer any more and the brand has lost all it's meaning/whatever.

We will miss you Mini.:(
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Aw, so now everyone has lost a loved one.

I tend to dislike the replacements of great cars, so I'm hoping that's why the newest Mini looks so wrong to me. But this, building SUV by specialist company? Porsche needed to do that. Mini does not.
 
I think the SUV actually looks pretty cool. MINI on steroid, but not actually that big, in my book, it's a nice niche
 
Joey D
How do you figure the MINI makes the 1-series look small? The Cooper is 145" long and the new crossover is only 161" long, the 1-series is 171.1" long.
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Bit late, but the crossover definitely makes the 1-series look small. Length isn't the only factor in size.

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There is a 1 parked right in front of it, and it looks a lot smaller.

And I think the concept is one of the ugliest things I've seen in a while now.
 
slidesquad#1
Length isn't the only factor in size.
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You're right. In photographs, perspective is too. The photo has obviously been taken in traffic (you can see the edge of the car in front of the photographer's car, and the shadows of that car and the one behind the clubman) and to get a shot of a whole car in traffic the photographer's had to use a reasonably wide angle. Wide angle makes objects close to the lens look quite big and objects further away exponentially smaller.

Now obviously the MINI is still taller, but then height isn't the only factor in size either.
 
Lets look at it this way as well:

Compared to the low-lying crossovers that it will have to go up against (VW Tiguan, Ford Kuga, Nissan Rouge/Quiashi (sp?), Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V, etc) its otherwise "small." I think the smallest there is the Tiguan, and it'll likely tower over it.

Like I've said before, I love the idea. If it stays pretty small, has an efficient AWD system, and keeps the fun-to-drive factor, the only thing we'll have to worry about is the price. Because, lets be honest, the Rouge is a sweetheart, and we know that the RAV4 is still a screaming good deal.
 
YSSMAN
Lets look at it this way as well:

Compared to the low-lying crossovers that it will have to go up against (VW Tiguan, Ford Kuga, Nissan Rouge/Quiashi (sp?), Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V, etc) its otherwise "small." I think the smallest there is the Tiguan, and it'll likely tower over it.

Like I've said before, I love the idea. If it stays pretty small, has an efficient AWD system, and keeps the fun-to-drive factor, the only thing we'll have to worry about is the price. Because, lets be honest, the Rouge is a sweetheart, and we know that the RAV4 is still a screaming good deal.
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I honestly can't see the point.
It might be smaller than the rest of the cars there, but for those of us who are familiar with the original Mini, it's massive, and a disgrace to the Mini name. Yes, BMW changed it to MINI etc., and told us that they were going to introduce variants and the like, but that doesn't really change anything for me, and, I believe, plenty of others who have driven, and are familiar with the iconicness of the original. It's like Chrysler being sold off, and the Viper being reintroduced as a front wheel drive, V6 VIPER.

I don't expect BMW to launch something with the same dimensions as the original, that would be stupid, but at the same time, I don't want them to make...that.

Besides, based on the 4wd's BMW have offered in the past, why would you buy it? It'll likely be heavier and less fun than the Clubman, probably less efficient than the Clubman, and more than likely be useless on anything but the easiest of off-road tracks.

Basically, my point is, if you're gonna call it a MINI, the driver shouldn't look so tiny in it.
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Well, as I keep saying, it's more of a rally car in Gravel setup than an SUV. I'd like to see the thing run Group N.
 
I think the only way that's happening is if you bought one and took it rallying yourself. I can't imagine it doing anything except getting destroyed by Evo's and STi's.
It might score some points if someone decided to WRC-ify it, like the SX4, but in Group N, I don't see it having a chance in hell.
 

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