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  • Thread starter STALLIONO
  • 4,925 comments
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If Mugello, isn't in release. pick one Track.

  • Zolder

    Votes: 8 38.1%

  • Hockenheim GP

    Votes: 10 47.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 3 14.3%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
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Johnnypenso
Counterpoint. A straightline points system like 16-15-14-13-12 etc. creates a much tighter championship race, which can encourage people to participate late in the chase and also creates more interesting battles throughout the standings. An FIA style or staggered points system heavily favours winning and podium finishes and can create a runaway leader in just a few races for someone starting out with 2 or 3 victories and this can and does discourage participation late in the season. Take this example:

First 3 races using the OP points system:
1st place 1-2-1 = 70 points
2nd place 4-1-3 = 52 points
3rd place 2-3-4 = 47 points

First 3 races using a straightline down from 16:
1st place 1-2-1 = 47 points
2nd place 4-1-3 = 43 points
3rd place 2-3-4 = 42 points

Just an example but you can see with a staggered points setup after only 3 races you can have 23 points already separating 1 to 3 in spite of them each doing fairly well. But with a straightline approach the gap is only 5 points 1st to 3rd. Straightline produces a much tighter grouping and rewards consistency, an FIA or staggered system rewards winning and podium finishes but really separates the points totals. Either one works obviously, just depends on what you are trying to do with your championship.
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After looking your post over. It's kinda hard to disagree with that point system. How about start it off with 18 and down
 
I agree with 1 point down per finishing spot.

Totally off topic, does anyone have a recommendation for a good monitor? Mine had a small accident.
 
Johnnypenso
Counterpoint. A straightline points system like 16-15-14-13-12 etc. creates a much tighter championship race, which can encourage people to participate late in the chase and also creates more interesting battles throughout the standings. An FIA style or staggered points system heavily favours winning and podium finishes and can create a runaway leader in just a few races for someone starting out with 2 or 3 victories and this can and does discourage participation late in the season. Take this example:

First 3 races using the OP points system:
1st place 1-2-1 = 70 points
2nd place 4-1-3 = 52 points
3rd place 2-3-4 = 47 points

First 3 races using a straightline down from 16:
1st place 1-2-1 = 47 points
2nd place 4-1-3 = 43 points
3rd place 2-3-4 = 42 points

Just an example but you can see with a staggered points setup after only 3 races you can have 23 points already separating 1 to 3 in spite of them each doing fairly well. But with a straightline approach the gap is only 5 points 1st to 3rd. Straightline produces a much tighter grouping and rewards consistency, an FIA or staggered system rewards winning and podium finishes but really separates the points totals. Either one works obviously, just depends on what you are trying to do with your championship.
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Personally I don't think that someone who gets two wins and one second place should only be 4 points ahead of someone who gets only one win and a finish outside of the podium, as it isn't exactly fair. It's more exciting sure, but one dnf from the leader and it's almost impossible for him to get back up to the top. Even if you are the best driver in your group if you get unlucky with a bad race or two, and the other top drivers don't, you are have absolutely no chance in catching up.
 
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MrMattAdz
Personally I don't think that someone who gets two wins and one second place should only be 4 points ahead of someone who gets only one win and a finish outside of the podium isn't exactly fair. It's more exciting sure, but one dnf from the leader and it's almost impossible for him to get back up to the top. Even if you are the best driver in your group if you get unlucky with a bad race or two, and the other top drivers don't, you are have absolutely no chance in catching up.
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No matter how the race points are awarded it really equals out. Just keeping it simple makes it easier to keep track of. Thats why I like 10 points for a win down to 1 for tenth place. Its like 7 points given for a touchdown in American Football and 1 point for a goal in Soccer. A 21 to 14 score is nothing more than a 3 to 2 game.
 
MrMattAdz
Personally I don't think that someone who gets two wins and one second place should only be 4 points ahead of someone who gets only one win and a finish outside of the podium isn't exactly fair. It's more exciting sure, but one dnf from the leader and it's almost impossible for him to get back up to the top. Even if you are the best driver in your group if you get unlucky with a bad race or two, and the other top drivers don't, you are have absolutely no chance in catching up.
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That's what I mean when I say a linear point system rewards consistency but it's not hard to disprove your example if you'd like me to. Even with an FIA style points system and no drops, a couple of bad races will probably still sink you for the championship because the winning driver, who would normally have finished second to you, will get 25 points for the win. So lets take an example:

Let's say there are 6 races and you would win every single race if you finished, but bad luck gives you a couple of tenth places and 4 wins. Your nearest competitor runs second and finishes every race, but wins the two that you finished poorly in.

With a straightline points system:

Him: 94 points. He wins.
You: 78 points. You lose.

With the FIA's point system:

Him: 122 points. He wins.
You: 102 points. You lose.

Same results either way. Even if you had 4 firsts, one second and a tenth place, and your opponent was more consistent with only 2 firsts but 4 seconds, he'd still win by 3 points under the FIA system. Under either system consistency is always the key to winning, especially in a very short series and it's only under a rare set of circumstances that the two systems would provide different winners.

Having said that, an easy fix for this is to allow a dropped race or two for your worst finishes, which is very common in online racing, at least in GT5/6.

IMO you create a points system primarily to encourage participation and provide close competition. It's just as important, perhaps more important, that those competing for 4th through 16th feel like they have someone close to them in the points tally to compete with. Everyone is racing their own race, and to have a competitor near you on the track that you are close to in points is what exciting racing is all about and encourages people to continue to see the series through to the end. Declining participation due to demotivated racers is the bane of online racing. Overall "fairness", whatever that means in this context, is secondary at best, again, IMO.
 
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Bethany Dawn
No matter how the race points are awarded it really equals out. Just keeping it simple makes it easier to keep track of. Thats why I like 10 points for a win down to 1 for tenth place. Its like 7 points given for a touchdown in American Football and 1 point for a goal in Soccer. A 21 to 14 score is nothing more than a 3 to 2 game.
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It isn't really the same though as there are smaller gaps the lower you go down the field with the fia system. The difference between 1st and 2nd is 7 points, the difference between 2nd and 3rd is 3 points. The difference between winning several races and coming second in several races is massive.
Johnnypenso
That's what I mean when I say a linear point system rewards consistency but it's not hard to disprove your example if you'd like me to. Even with an FIA style points system and no drops, a couple of bad races will probably still sink you for the championship because the winning driver, who would normally have finished second to you, will get 25 points for the win. So lets take an example:

Let's say there are 6 races and you would win every single race if you finished, but bad luck gives you a couple of tenth places and 4 wins. Your nearest competitor runs second and finishes every race, but wins the two that you finished poorly in.

With a straightline points system:

Him: 94 points. He wins.
You: 78 points. You lose.

With the FIA's point system:

Him: 122 points. He wins.
You: 102 points. You lose.

Same results either way. Even if you had 4 firsts, one second and a tenth place, and your opponent was more consistent with only 2 firsts but 4 seconds, he'd still win by 3 points under the FIA system. Under either system consistency is always the key to winning, especially in a very short series and it's only under a rare set of circumstances that the two systems would provide different winners.

Having said that, an easy fix for this is to allow a dropped race or two for your worst finishes, which is very common in online racing, at least in GT5/6.
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That example you gave uses completely unrealistic numbers as the driver who was unlucky is unlucky on 1/3 of his races. This season is going to last 12 races, if you are going to finish 4 of those in last place then it can't just be down to bad luck, that's you making several critical errors and being punished for it, and I'd argue that if you're making errors like that you aren't going to be finishing 1st in the other races.

Looking at the last season of f1 Hamilton had 3/19 races where he didn't receive points, Rosberg had 4/19, and Riciardo had 3/19. In a 12 race season that would equate to about 2 bad results. We can also say that every single driver last season had a dnf, so it would be fair to suggest that at some point in this season if damage is turned on we will all have a bad race at some point.

I know that I was the one who brought up DNFs and bad races, but that shouldn't be what determines what system we choose. At the end of the day I would argue that if a points system is good enough for the fia it's good enough for us.
 
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MrMattAdz
It isn't really the same though as there are smaller gaps the lower you go down the field with the fia system. The difference between 1st and 2nd is 7 points, the difference between 2nd and 3rd is 3 points. The difference between winning several races and coming second in several races is massive.

That example you gave uses completely unrealistic numbers as the driver who was unlucky is unlucky on 1/3 of his races. This season is going to last 12 races, if you are going to finish 4 of those in last place then it can't just be down to bad luck, that's you making several critical errors and being punished for it, and I'd argue that if you're making errors like that you aren't going to be finishing 1st in the other races.

Looking at the last season of f1 Hamilton had 3/19 races where he didn't receive points, Rosberg had 4/19, and Riciardo had 3/19. In a 12 race season that would equate to a about 2 bad results.
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After this poll b ends at 7 50pm. I will put up a 4 day poll about the point system. Hockenheim won the poll. Just a heads up. i did see Mugello in the Track list. Just be ready to vote. I didnt vote in the 1st poll. i will be voting in this one
 
STALLIONO
After this poll b ends at 7 50pm. I will put up a 4 day poll about the point system. Hockenheim won the poll. Just a heads up. i did see Mugello in the Track list. Just be ready to vote. I didnt vote in the 1st poll. i will be voting in this one
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That's fair enough, put it to a vote and if the linear points system wins I won't argue it. Hopefully by the end of the season the system we chose is irrelevant and the winners would have won using either system.
 
STALLIONO
After this poll b ends at 7 50pm. I will put up a 4 day poll about the point system. Hockenheim won the poll. Just a heads up. i did see Mugello in the Track list. Just be ready to vote. I didnt vote in the 1st poll. i will be voting in this one
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And what happened to the poll that I requested ???
 
STALLIONO
Don't think many want a set Camera view. It's new game. Everyone needs to get adjusted.
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You know what...It seems to me that your making the decisions by what you like, your saying everyone is to have a say, well let them have a say...... And have the poll.

The game is meant to be a simulation of real life racing or very to close to. So why have a serious series and have the option to or drive outside the car, or arcade mode huh whats that about.

All Iam saying is... have the poll with the options that I requested earlier. (V.I.M)

And not for you one, to decide what the other drivers may or may not want, then i'll be quiet and humble.

(SIMULATION)
 
Mr SkyyJuice
You know what...It seems to me that your making the decisions by what you like, your saying everyone is to have a say, well let them have a say...... And have the poll.

The game is meant to be a simulation of real life racing or very to close to. So why have a serious series and have the option to or drive outside the car, or arcade mode huh whats that about.

All Iam saying is... have the poll with the options that I requested earlier. (V.I.M)

And not for you one, to decide what the other drivers may or may not want, then i'll be quiet and humble.

(SIMULATION)
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Are you seriously trying to argue that we should have a poll to see if we should force people to use a view they don't want to?
 
Mr SkyyJuice
You know what...It seems to me that your making the decisions by what you like, your saying everyone is to have a say, well let them have a say...... And have the poll.

The game is meant to be a simulation of real life racing or very to close to. So why have a serious series and have the option to or drive outside the car, or arcade mode huh whats that about.

All Iam saying is... have the poll with the options that I requested earlier. (V.I.M)

And not for you one, to decide what the other drivers may or may not want, then i'll be quiet and humble.

(SIMULATION)
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I don't Race in 3rd car view. Like @ozwheels said. I can not force people in camera views. It wouldn't be fair. Plus it's a new game. I'm not forcing anything. I just don't see forced Camera views. I'll be honest. We have a few good views in this game. I highly doubt anyone Races in 3rd car cam
 
STALLIONO
I don't Race in 3rd car view. Like @ozwheels said. I can not force people in camera views. It wouldn't be fair. Plus it's a new game. I'm not forcing anything. I just don't see forced Camera views. I'll be honest. We have a few good views in this game. I highly doubt anyone Races in 3rd car cam
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I race in 3rd person.:D
 
MrMattAdz
It isn't really the same though as there are smaller gaps the lower you go down the field with the fia system. The difference between 1st and 2nd is 7 points, the difference between 2nd and 3rd is 3 points. The difference between winning several races and coming second in several races is massive.

That example you gave uses completely unrealistic numbers as the driver who was unlucky is unlucky on 1/3 of his races. This season is going to last 12 races, if you are going to finish 4 of those in last place then it can't just be down to bad luck, that's you making several critical errors and being punished for it, and I'd argue that if you're making errors like that you aren't going to be finishing 1st in the other races.

Looking at the last season of f1 Hamilton had 3/19 races where he didn't receive points, Rosberg had 4/19, and Riciardo had 3/19. In a 12 race season that would equate to about 2 bad results. We can also say that every single driver last season had a dnf, so it would be fair to suggest that at some point in this season if damage is turned on we will all have a bad race at some point.

I know that I was the one who brought up DNFs and bad races, but that shouldn't be what determines what system we choose. At the end of the day I would argue that if a points system is good enough for the fia it's good enough for us.
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The FIA system is set up to encourage drivers to go for victory at all costs, mainly for the benefit of the viewing audience aka paid attendance and tv ratings...aka $$$$$$$$. That doesn't mean it's the best system for online racing where the primary concern of most race organizers is making sure the drivers are all having fun, have someone to compete with, drive with mutual respect and courtesy, and just as important, full grids right up until the end of the season. The goals are completely different to FIA racing. It could easily be argued that an RD would want to encourage the safe steady driver who stays out of trouble, more than the go-for-broke mentality that often ruins online racing and online race series.
Mr SkyyJuice
You know what...It seems to me that your making the decisions by what you like, your saying everyone is to have a say, well let them have a say...... And have the poll.

The game is meant to be a simulation of real life racing or very to close to. So why have a serious series and have the option to or drive outside the car, or arcade mode huh whats that about.

All Iam saying is... have the poll with the options that I requested earlier. (V.I.M)

And not for you one, to decide what the other drivers may or may not want, then i'll be quiet and humble.

(SIMULATION)
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You can only have one poll on a thread. New poll...new thread.
 
Depending on the car I drive in car or hood if vision is to limited. But people should drive what they are comfortable with. Forcing someone to drive in an unfamiliar view puts them at a disadvantage.
 
Copy and Paste the Qualifying Days you can make. This goes out to Admins and Stewards. Help will be needed for the Qualifying. I hope you all can make the Dates i post.

Copy and Paste the List. For what date you can make.

Qualifying for Tier Placement May 17th at 2pm est

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Please only copy and paste the date you can make.
Check the 1st page about the car, track and Lobby settings.

Again Thank you for joining Season 1. Now the grind continues lady and gentlemen!
 
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I am available all three dates. I work third so I can be up and ready to go all three days. I'm on my phone at the moment so I don't think I can copy and paste. As soon as I can get to a pc I will.
 
Copy and Paste the Qualifying Days you can make. This goes out to Admins and Stewards. Help will be needed for the Qualifying. I hope you all can make the Dates i post.

Copy and Paste the List. For what date you can make.

Qualifying for Tier Placement May 21st at 6pm est

1. Bethany Dawn psn B_Bubbles_66
2.
3.
4.
5.

Qualifying for Tier Placement May 22nd

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Qualifying for Tier Placement May 23rd

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Please only copy and paste the date you can make.
Check the 1st page about the car, track and Lobby settings.

Again Thank you for joining Season 1. Now the grind continues lady and gentlemen!
 
Copy and Paste the Qualifying Days you can make. This goes out to Admins and Stewards. Help will be needed for the Qualifying. I hope you all can make the Dates i post.

Copy and Paste the List. For what date you can make.

Qualifying for Tier Placement May 21st at 6pm est

1. Bethany Dawn psn B_Bubbles_66
2. SimFan David PSN-David_killem_all
3.
4.
5.

Qualifying for Tier Placement May 22nd

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Qualifying for Tier Placement May 23rd

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Please only copy and paste the date you can make.
Check the 1st page about the car, track and Lobby settings.

Again Thank you for joining Season 1. Now the grind continues lady and gentlemen!
 
I can't make any of them dates, why are you not running qualifying one sunday around the time of the races!
Thats when most people are available
 
Hello guys

I am neebie as someone can be in Pcars but i will try it on ps4.

I would really like to enter a group because i think it is the best way to improve.

My only two grips are with the net code ( i have slow internet ) and time of race. Will the race start around 6pm EST too ? That's midnight in europe :D

Thanks for the answers
 
Zeydius
Hello guys

I am neebie as someone can be in Pcars but i will try it on ps4.

I would really like to enter a group because i think it is the best way to improve.

My only two grips are with the net code ( i have slow internet ) and time of race. Will the race start around 6pm EST too ? That's midnight in europe :D

Thanks for the answers
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Races are 2pm est and if you have a slow connection I would recommend racing with everyone in your tier to see if the lag is a problem.
 
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