Modifying Existing Race Cars

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheCracker
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^ agreed... would add a lot more depth to engine tuning... the suspension stuff is solid in GT but some of those ideas would give tweaking your powerplant some more umph (why does that sound dirty???) :sly:
 
thank u sven...like i was saying...the prices u pay for upgrades in gt is ridiculous. its NOT just loads of boost with a stock engine. to buy every single top mod for a car is what, 200k or something. blowing up 2 minutes after building it would be stupid. they can keep things the way they are just change the mods for engine options (which i think they are gonna do anyway)...like cam specs, intake type, timing, etc...many drag games on computer from the past did this quite "accurately" and it worked well. it'd make drag racing online and racing in general a lot more fun, especially online. it'd just add one more thing u have to perfect to be the best racer out there and would give the advantage to people that actually know something about tuning. and u could just have a default setting for the more amateur racers and teach them at the same time just like spring rate, etc... did on previous gt's.
 
Greyout
It would turn tuning into an engaging process, instead of going through the motions, and hearing the "daahhh.... dah..dah.dah.dah..daaahhhhhh....... dahhh...." sound for 5 minutes while you max everything out as usual.
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:lol: so true, especially if its a car for a particular championship you don't care about.
 
Formula 1 engines today run on what could be considered 'regular' pump petrol but it is indeed specially formulated nonetheless by individual companies. It adheres to a stringent set of specifications mandated by FIA and regularly checked, and I'm talking on a molecular level - not having hydrocarbon chains exceeding certain lengths etc. Regardless of all this engine outputs approach 1000BHP.

I'm curious about the engines that supposedly have run 3000BHP because my understanding is that normal combustion engines only transfer about 30% of the power they produce into the wheels. There was an indepth explanation from Pay Symonds of Renault a few months ago on Formula1.com, before Bahrain I believe, where he explained the engines really produce over 2200kW of power, but most simply winds up as excess heat from combustion and thus components like oil, the gearbox, the exhaust, various fluids all distribute this giant heat excess. I'm wondering if the Toyota engine in question wasn't simply running at close to 1000BHP, which would mean a true power output of far higher if it wasn't being wasted.

I'm also going to admit I know absolutely nothing about changing cams, valves, inlets and all the rest. So if I have to learn how to make decisions about properly tuning my car for speed and throttle response with these tools it's going to take a while, and I'm keen to give it a go, but I wonder how much of the mainstream market will submit to such torture.
 
I think the idea of an NA stage 1 2 3 was that the computer made the decision to change the pieces of the pie itself.. but maybe they could have both systems... you buy the stage 3 and it sets it to what it thinks should be a pretty good setup... but then you can go in (If you so please) and change the lengths and stuff up and down until it's perfect) This would mean people who don't know what a manifold is (Like me) can tune their car... and people that now what the valve springs do can do it their way... and the settings would be such that the laymen could learn by doing it and the gearheads would already know but they might also be able to learn new techniques?!

Do you understand what I mean? Kindof similar to the way the auto gear slider works?!

You can lengthen-shorten the slider and the PS2 does the calcs for you... but then you can go in and tweak extra bits to make it better... like for some courses you want max acceleration cos it's tight and twisty... but it's got a long straight... so you shorten the gears down and then take the last one (or two) back up a bit so that you don't max out too much.

On the subject of how much power an engine spits out... there are two ways of judging that... a lot of people will give the "@the flywheel" measure which is invariably higher than the amount of power that actually makes it to the tyres!!

C.
 
I like the idea of automatic settings like the gearbox, just to increase accessability while people get used to how things work.
 
The ability to upgrade race cars was introduced in GT3 is to replace the 1000 hp Race Modded Cars that could be made in GT1 and GT2 I believe.
As for tuning individual components in NA and turbo upgrades I believe this would make engine tuning over complicated and just confuse the mainstream player. I dont really think the race driver and even the race engineer has a lot of input into motor construction/design. Most teams will get their motors from special motor builders or the team motor builders. The drivers would ask for more mid range or top end and the motor builder would try to deliver. Asking the average GT player to learn all this would be asking to much. Asking PD to programme it into the game would mean we would get the game in about 2008. Lets keep it the way it is with easy calculated percentage upgrades for each part upgrade fitted.
 
yeti
I think the idea of an NA stage 1 2 3 was that the computer made the decision to change the pieces of the pie itself.. but maybe they could have both systems... you buy the stage 3 and it sets it to what it thinks should be a pretty good setup... but then you can go in (If you so please) and change the lengths and stuff up and down until it's perfect) This would mean people who don't know what a manifold is (Like me) can tune their car... and people that now what the valve springs do can do it their way... and the settings would be such that the laymen could learn by doing it and the gearheads would already know but they might also be able to learn new techniques?!

Do you understand what I mean? Kindof similar to the way the auto gear slider works?!

You can lengthen-shorten the slider and the PS2 does the calcs for you... but then you can go in and tweak extra bits to make it better... like for some courses you want max acceleration cos it's tight and twisty... but it's got a long straight... so you shorten the gears down and then take the last one (or two) back up a bit so that you don't max out too much.
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Er... what about this idea?

C.
 
Heh, you'd probably need a mechanical engineering degree to be able to tune on that level =P
 
Fortunately I have a clanmate who teaches engineering at university :D
 
Eagle,
My son's friend's dad is an airline pilot. Doesn't mean I know how to fly an airplane.
 
No, but if you did have a question about flying planes, who would you go to?
 
live4speed
The old CanAm cars had over 1000Bhp and they managed full races with thweir engines, several group C cars had around 800Bhp and entered LeMans, if a group C car can handle 800Bhp, a GT-One definitely can. It's not unrealistic being able to further tune a race car, but there should be a point where you overdo it.
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Hiya! :D :O :lol:

I agree with live4speed! :O Tuning the the race cars to go faster is fun, but PD should really show the consequences when you get up to a certain about of HP and you will lose out on turning abililites greatly. I thought that having a car with say...about 1200 HP will be good for straight lines, but not on curvy tracks. From playing GT3, which was my first GT series game I have played, driving cars with over 900+ HP will always be faster then compared to the lesser HP of that car. Skyline with 1000HP vs Skyline with 700HP = Skyline with 1000+ :odd: I am not sure if its just how I drive it or I am doing something wrong. I am very confused actually since I read and watch videos of cars going through easily with only 500-600 HP and been told that having LOADS of HP will make the car bad on the tracks. But now I am confused with GT3's results from playing. Always seem more HP = better lap times. :odd:
 
^ i'm sure you're referring to the GT-One Race Car with stage 4 turbo (has over 1200bhp)... the thing was still amazing through the turns, but you had to do some major suspension tuning to adjust for the HUGE horsepower... also if you never shifted below third gear you prevent the massive wheelspin that you get with the car so beefed up.
 
Le_Mans-1990-06-17-024.jpg
Most of the modern Le Mans and JGTC sportscars are running restrictors in order to equalise power to make a wide range of engines competitive, and to keep costs down.

At Le Mans the Prototypes and GTS cars produce between 600-650BHP with the restrictors. This allows everything from old Ford/Chevy V8s, F1 derived Judd V10s and turbo engines to be competitive.

If the restricors were removed only turbo engines would be used, as they could push out well over 1000BHP, wereas the F1 engines and Ford/Chevy V8s would be limited to around 750-800BHP in endurance spec.

In the Group C days the Nissan and Toyota Group C cas regularly ran 1100BHP+ for there qualifying runs at Le Mans etc. The Nissan R90C driven by Mark Blundell put out 1200BHP on its pole run.

The Audi R8, Toyota GT-ONE, Bentley etc. could all put out 1000BHP+ without restrictors.

The same goes for the turbo JGTC GT500 cars.

I do think that GT4 should stick to the regulations of the series the particular cars compete in however, simply to be more realistic.
 
Exactley, the reason they don't still up the power like that is because they arn't allowed to.
 
as said before, the idea for default engine tuning sliders is perfect. u can always reset ur tuning specs to a decent default setting and the more knowledgable can mess with theirs to make their car faster. most of u had no idea how to tune a suspension before gt so this would be no different. also, why do people think that identical cars with 300hp difference handle differently? its the same motor, same weight, etc... and if anything, tuning a suspension for higher power requires stiffening it anyway which can lead to better handling possibly. the only thing is if the car is turboed then ur gonna have bigger turbo on the higher hp car which will spool slower but that shouldnt matter since any smart racer will keep their rpms high and still win the race over the slower car. people shouldnt want a game to be realistic cuz of what they heard. some of u want this game to be so "realistic" that ur gonna undercut a lot of its benefits. that's why theyre making the game and not us. if they allow numerous 1500hp cars in gt4, is that gonna prevent anyone from buying it? i hope not. and about 3000hp out of a petrol motor...why is that so hard to believe? unless u know the exact limits of a motor and petrols power capacity, u can not say this. also, if it was possibly to continue to get highly compressed cool air to a motor, the power is limitless if the motor could take the strain of the compression. anyway, this doesnt even matter because fuel doesnt even flow thru a motor when they test block strenth, cylinder sleeves, piston rings, etc... why would they waste time hooking up sensors, fuel lines, microprocessors, and an ecu to get an engine to run right, just to see if it will break. u hook a shaft to the flywheel and transmit hp or torque (same thing) thru that. very simple.
 
Why not allow horsepower/turbo upgrades but restict races based on p/w or h/p. That would still allow fun to be had with high horsepower cars but still allow competitive racing.
 
With GT4 making such a fuss about realistic tracks and cars, part of the fun for me will be comparing a realistic Toyota GT-One, for example, against a realistic BMW M3 GTR V8.

I don't think I'll bother upgrading power to unrealistic levels. But thats just me.

On a track such as the Nordcshliefe I would think a 650BHP GT-ONE would be almost as quick as a 1300BHP GT-ONE as the circuit is more of a handling circuit than one for out and out power.
 
^^^thats how it should be...u do what u prefer but allow for it to give more variety to a game. also, not everyone is as good at driving as some of the people in this forum and will need the upgrades.
 
L1ama
stupid eagle
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ZOMG SPAM.

;)

Anyway. I think these ideas for engine tuning and so on are great. I'd love to see many more options for cars. It would make a player's car even more personal.

Great for online... Although it might mean a bigger devide between new players and series vets.

Oh and turbo lag is a MUST.
 
McLaren'sAngel
Hiya! :D :O :lol:

I agree with live4speed! :O Tuning the the race cars to go faster is fun, but PD should really show the consequences when you get up to a certain about of HP and you will lose out on turning abililites greatly. I thought that having a car with say...about 1200 HP will be good for straight lines, but not on curvy tracks.
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Nice to see some people agree with me 👍 If the chassis and suspension cant cope with the power then they will mess up the cars handling and possibly even bend or break completely. If they can cope you still have the problem of the car being harder to control due to the extra powerin most cases. I think that over0tuning in GT4 should wear you engine out very fast (provided KY includes the parts that can wear over time idea).
 
l33tc4k30fd00m u just hate me cause i own u, and eagle
 
Hate you? What the hell are you going on about?? Do you really think I'm gonna waste my time hating someone over the internet?

Oh and half assed comments do not = owned. Really, grow up.
 
thats why u always flame me, now ur trying to sound like u dont care, u do hate me, u keep lying, god hates u
 
Does he hate you because he said you spam??? Because from what I saw there, thats what you did. Please try to keep on topic and don't try to provoke users into slagging matches.
 
Flame? Hahahaha.

I flamed a person on a forum once. Almost got banned. Never did it again.

You're not even in the lower stages of being worth it.
 
nvm, im not going to argue with morons
 
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