Monza inaccuracies

  • Thread starter Mike_grpA
  • 84 comments
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HammyMansell
Who's taking the piss? It was just a light hearted post, nothing else, to show in reality how far games have moved on in 25 years. Don't be so sensitive and dramatic mate! ;)
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Well it looked like a piss take to me mate, since it served no other purpose to the topic of this thread. So it wasn't a piss take, it was a post attempting to change the topic of the thread? My response had nothing to do with being sensitive or dramatic, but to keep the thread on topic.
 
HammyMansell
Who's taking the piss? It was just a light hearted post, nothing else, to show in reality how far games have moved on in 25 years. Don't be so sensitive and dramatic mate! ;)
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I was watching Alan from VVV playing Super Monaco 2 the other day and it made me feel sick. Had to turn it off haha. How did we even play games back then?
 
Mike_grpA
Well it looked like a piss take to me mate, since it served no other purpose to the topic of this thread. So it wasn't a piss take, it was a post attempting to change the topic of the thread? My response had nothing to do with being sensitive or dramatic, but to keep the thread on topic.
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I didn't read it as a pisstake :)
 
Mike_grpA
Well it looked like a piss take to me mate, since it served no other purpose to the topic of this thread. So it wasn't a piss take, it was a post attempting to change the topic of the thread? My response had nothing to do with being sensitive or dramatic, but to keep the thread on topic.
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It does serve a purpose, like i said, it shows how far games have come over time, nothing else......Jeeez!! Peace!👍
 
HammyMansell
It does serve a purpose, like i said, it shows how far games have come over time, nothing else......Jeeez!! Peace!👍
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A point not really connected to the topic of the thread, which was my point. Comparing track accuracy to games from the last few years? Sure. Comparing it to a 25 year old game? Obviously just being silly. If you've got something to add which is on topic then I'm happy to discuss it, because that's what I started the thread for, to discuss what other people thought of the tracks in Pcars compared to it's rivals.
 
Mike_grpA
A point not really connected to the topic of the thread, which was my point. Comparing track accuracy to games from the last few years? Sure. Comparing it to a 25 year old game? Obviously just being silly. If you've got something to add which is on topic then I'm happy to discuss it, because that's what I started the thread for, to discuss what other people thought of the tracks in Pcars compared to it's rivals.
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I hope you sued that charm school you went to....Bye mate! ;)
 
Telstar
Judging from a quick view of some Youtube videos, it looks fine to me.
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Nope it isn't. I have driven on the Zolder track and it is not the same in pCars as it is in real life. Believe me. The difference is not that big but there is a difference.
 
kikie
Nope it isn't. I have driven on the Zolder track and it is not the same in pCars as it is in real life. Believe me. The difference is not that big but there is a difference.
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Could you explain it, please? Always curious about those details. :)
 
Telstar
Could you explain it, please? Always curious about those details. :)
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It is difficult to explain. It's not that big of a difference but the difference is there.

In pCars, when you come out to the chicane, you can go straight over the rumble strip into the next corner (number 10 in the previous post), this is a no, no IRL. When I was driving on the Zolder track, I always had to turn slightly to the left coming out of the chicane to get a correct turn in on the number 10 corner. Whatever car I drove, from standard road cars to a Formula Ford I was driving, I always had to turn slightly to the left to turn in properly into corner number 10.
It is a just a small difference but the difference is there.

It seems that I keep repeating myself. :D
 
So we have three great new tracks now, what are all your impressions on those?

I immediately noticed a small issue at Hockenheim. The version they've gone for has the '82 Ostkurve chicane, but the Senna Kurve is as tight as the '94 version.

It's a bit of an odd one, as the first Ostkurve chicane was used from '82 to '91, and was changed in '92 to the second version which remained until the modern track was built. The Senna Kurve, before it was called that, was the third chicane, and was very open and fast until the tragedies of '94, at which point it was tightened.

The weirdest bit about the third chicane in the Pcars version is that it doesn't have the bypassed part of the early version, suggesting they were genuinely trying to make it the earlier version, in line with the Ostkurve they used, but the actual chicane itself is still as tight as their beta version of the track, which was the post '94 version with the different Ostkurve.

It's a little hard to explain, and it's a relatively small detail, but still, the track inaccuracies continue. I've seen mentions of it in the official forum, as well as people saying the historic Silverstone is way too bumpy (the original course was known to be quite smooth irl) and apparently the Woodcote chicane is too large.
 
CHEN255
Has anyone from SMS ever addressed the inaccuracies of the tracks or has the silence been deafening?
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Ian himself actually tried to claim Monza was perfect in a thread someone over there started. The thread literally pointed directly to this thread to say (paraphrasing) "has anyone seen this? I don't see anything wrong with Monza but there's people claiming there is".

Obviously trying to rally the defenders of the faith over there (you guys all know the ones I'm talking about), to come together and claim the track was perfect, and that I was only comparing it to GT6, as obviously I hadn't driven the real track blah blah, and I even joined in the discussion to own up to this being my thread, and pointed out the obvious flaws in the circuit, and the fact that I was comparing it to real footage and to the scanned version in AC.

This was the point Ian jumped in to defend the faith. Claiming that Nic Hamilton gave them feedback to make it more accurate, and that perhaps even a famous relative of his had some input too (obviously referring to Lewis, and he was obviously talking out of his arse, otherwise he'd be able to name him without fear).

I found that hilarious, because A) the inaccuracies I pointed out are obvious to anyone with eyes, and the track looks like a slightly updated version of the one in Shift 2, so I doubt the "race driver feedback" made much difference, and B) This was during a time when the game's most major bugs were still in full swing, and I hadn't seen Ian in a single bug report thread to talk about any of the game's major issues. However, he was more than happy to argue that the version of the Italian GP circuit in his game was more accurate than the version in AC, made by an Italian team, who laser scanned it.

I do love Pcars, and the track inaccuracies don't actually bother me, much as I'd like the tracks to be perfect. I still love racing at Monza, just as I love racing at Bathurst and the new old Hockenheim, even though those both have their own issues too. I think the whole point of my nit picking is that I really like this game, and want it to be all it should be. The sad reality of the circuits though is they are closer to the quality of Shift 2 than AC, and simcade or not, GT6 tracks are actually closer to reality than Pcars tracks, hence the FIA certification a number of those tracks recieved.
 
Mike_grpA
Ian himself actually tried to claim Monza was perfect in a thread someone over there started. The thread literally pointed directly to this thread to say (paraphrasing) "has anyone seen this? I don't see anything wrong with Monza but there's people claiming there is".

Obviously trying to rally the defenders of the faith over there (you guys all know the ones I'm talking about), to come together and claim the track was perfect, and that I was only comparing it to GT6, as obviously I hadn't driven the real track blah blah, and I even joined in the discussion to own up to this being my thread, and pointed out the obvious flaws in the circuit, and the fact that I was comparing it to real footage and to the scanned version in AC.

This was the point Ian jumped in to defend the faith. Claiming that Nic Hamilton gave them feedback to make it more accurate, and that perhaps even a famous relative of his had some input too (obviously referring to Lewis, and he was obviously talking out of his arse, otherwise he'd be able to name him without fear).

I found that hilarious, because A) the inaccuracies I pointed out are obvious to anyone with eyes, and the track looks like a slightly updated version of the one in Shift 2, so I doubt the "race driver feedback" made much difference, and B) This was during a time when the game's most major bugs were still in full swing, and I hadn't seen Ian in a single bug report thread to talk about any of the game's major issues. However, he was more than happy to argue that the version of the Italian GP circuit in his game was more accurate than the version in AC, made by an Italian team, who laser scanned it.

I do love Pcars, and the track inaccuracies don't actually bother me, much as I'd like the tracks to be perfect. I still love racing at Monza, just as I love racing at Bathurst and the new old Hockenheim, even though those both have their own issues too. I think the whole point of my nit picking is that I really like this game, and want it to be all it should be. The sad reality of the circuits though is they are closer to the quality of Shift 2 than AC, and simcade or not, GT6 tracks are actually closer to reality than Pcars tracks, hence the FIA certification a number of those tracks recieved.
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So, do you reckon the new DLC tracks are taken from their old track library with some visual updates ( Shift 2, Test Drive Ferrari etc ) ?
 
Ridox2JZGTE
So, do you reckon the new DLC tracks are taken from their old track library with some visual updates ( Shift 2, Test Drive Ferrari etc ) ?
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No actually, I believe them when they say they completely rebuilt them. I played FRL a lot (finished it twice, because historic Ferrari), and the versions of those three tracks in Pcars are significantly different.

Hockenheim, in Pcars is the 1982 version, with the first version of the Ostkurve chicane, although the third chicane is obviously too tight on entry, but then the motodrom is accurate enough to not have the run offs and the drag strip. In FRL, the old Hockenheim was actually labelled as a 1982 version, yet it had the last version of all chicanes, and the runoff and drag strip in the motodrom that was there right up until the track was butchered. This FRL version was identical to the historic Hockenheim in Pcars during development.

Rouen is vastly different in Pcars to the FRL and Shift version. Again, early development Pcars had a direct copy of the Shift and FRL version in it, which was significantly less accurate than the version we eventually got in Pcars, so good work SMS on that one!

Silverstone is, like the above, different to the FRL and early development versions, though the differences are more subtle. The trackside objects are much more detailed in the final Pcars version, there seems to be a bit more elevation around the bridge area, and the gigantic runoff at the end of the hangar straight in FRL is gone in Pcars.

If you watch videos from Pcars development, and videos of Test Drive: FRL, you'll see those three tracks are basically identical. However, if you then go and have a drive in Pcars on those three historic tracks, you'll see they are quite significantly different. This pleasantly surprised me when I drove them for the first time, and gives me hope for the vibrancy of the historic Spa and Monza tracks that are yet to come. :)
 
Mike_grpA
No actually, I believe them when they say they completely rebuilt them. I played FRL a lot (finished it twice, because historic Ferrari), and the versions of those three tracks in Pcars are significantly different.

Hockenheim, in Pcars is the 1982 version, with the first version of the Ostkurve chicane, although the third chicane is obviously too tight on entry, but then the motodrom is accurate enough to not have the run offs and the drag strip. In FRL, the old Hockenheim was actually labelled as a 1982 version, yet it had the last version of all chicanes, and the runoff and drag strip in the motodrom that was there right up until the track was butchered. This FRL version was identical to the historic Hockenheim in Pcars during development.

Rouen is vastly different in Pcars to the FRL and Shift version. Again, early development Pcars had a direct copy of the Shift and FRL version in it, which was significantly less accurate than the version we eventually got in Pcars, so good work SMS on that one!

Silverstone is, like the above, different to the FRL and early development versions, though the differences are more subtle. The trackside objects are much more detailed in the final Pcars version, there seems to be a bit more elevation around the bridge area, and the gigantic runoff at the end of the hangar straight in FRL is gone in Pcars.

If you watch videos from Pcars development, and videos of Test Drive: FRL, you'll see those three tracks are basically identical. However, if you then go and have a drive in Pcars on those three historic tracks, you'll see they are quite significantly different. This pleasantly surprised me when I drove them for the first time, and gives me hope for the vibrancy of the historic Spa and Monza tracks that are yet to come. :)
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Cool :) is this the Rouen track in Pcars ? ( 1960s era )



How different the track in Test Drive FRL to the real video above ? and Pcars ?
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Cool :) is this the Rouen track in Pcars ? ( 1960s era )



How different the track in Test Drive FRL to the real video above ? and Pcars ?
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Essentially yes. It looks very accurate going off that video, with the little white kerbs that really spoil a good lap in the old F1 cars when you clip one and end up in a ditch missing wheels lol.

The track in that vid is the full version of Rouen, which became too dangerous in the 70s, leading to the really fast section being cut off by a road with a few corners, which is the Rouen short circuit in Pcars, so I'd say it's a 70s version in Pcars, with both of those layouts available.

FRL's Rouen was very different in the trackside detail, and looking at that video, was a fair way off. The hairpin was also a fair bit different in FRL. FRL had two layouts of Rouen: The original '51 layout, and the long fast layout in that vid. Pcars has the layout in that vid, and the later 70's layout with a twisty final sector.

Just google onboards of FRL and Pcars at Rouen, and find vids of Pcars from development, and you'll see the differences. :)

Edit: Oh and thanks for the vid, I love old race footage! :cheers:
 
Mike_grpA
Essentially yes. It looks very accurate going off that video, with the little white kerbs that really spoil a good lap in the old F1 cars when you clip one and end up in a ditch missing wheels lol.

The track in that vid is the full version of Rouen, which became too dangerous in the 70s, leading to the really fast section being cut off by a road with a few corners, which is the Rouen short circuit in Pcars, so I'd say it's a 70s version in Pcars, with both of those layouts available.

FRL's Rouen was very different in the trackside detail, and looking at that video, was a fair way off. The hairpin was also a fair bit different in FRL. FRL had two layouts of Rouen: The original '51 layout, and the long fast layout in that vid. Pcars has the layout in that vid, and the later 70's layout with a twisty final sector.

Just google onboards of FRL and Pcars at Rouen, and find vids of Pcars from development, and you'll see the differences. :)

Edit: Oh and thanks for the vid, I love old race footage! :cheers:
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Glad you enjoy the vid. I have been racing at Rouen 1967 since long time ago on GPL :D Jim Clark record there was 2 minute flat if I remember correctly on Lotus 49 :P
 

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