Motorsports Simulators Python

  • Thread starter Radracing
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Yeah greeze, I had seen bits on them a long time ago, congrats on your purchase.
Look forward to your upgrades you were considering tactile upgrades too?

They certainly offer good hardware and at more realistic price-points.
 
Mr Latte
Yeah greeze, I had seen bits on them a long time ago, congrats on your purchase.
Look forward to your upgrades you were considering tactile upgrades too?

They certainly offer good hardware and at more realistic price-points.
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Was the same; had my eye on their kit for ages but finally decided to bite the bullet! lol

No major tactile changes planned but we'll see what happens. I now need to design the steelwork to mount the actuators on... 👍
 
Rather than put this in Mayamans thread and upset anyone further...

Here is some proper information as to why D-BOX perhaps is or maybe isn't necessarily the best simulation motion cockpits.

It's not all about the motion but fooling the brain apparently. These guys go for improved tactile immersion, including brake tactile, subwoofer and belt tensioner.

http://www.cxcsimulations.com/how-it-feels/

Also noticed that the Vesaro cockpit with D-Box has an additional ButtKicker Advance. Likely used for extra tactile feedback direct in the seat for improved immersion.

Each company it seems want to sell their own and talk them up.
 
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Mr Latte
...It's not all about the motion but fooling the brain apparently...
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Bingo! People here are slowly coming to grips with the concept! (No offense btw :)) It's not about being thrown about to try and acheive car-like g-forces, it's about fooling the brain into percieved movement. It's called Proprioception :)
 
The only drawback I find is the "Bird Chirp" sound of the actuators could be very annoying. Look forward to hearing how loud or noticeable this is with decent audio running?

Alternatively perhaps a user could cover the actuator cover with sound proofing material like I used for my base, called Fat Mat? It simply sticks on and as long as it has no effect on overheating could be handy. I do not know how loud D-Box is in comparison.
 
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I think the chirping noise is exaggerated by camcorder/phone mics, but I would imagine with the in-game volume cranked up it'd be pretty much drowned out.

Proof of the pudding is the eating of course so I'll let you know. :)
 
Look forward to your thoughts...
Please look into "Force Sender" you have good tactile experience so welcome any info you can give on what it may bring to enhancing tactile from PC on supported games.

On a personal note regarding various motion.
I can see the point raised that in a real car the seat doesn't move independent from the steering wheel. I get that but then a real car doesn't move like such simulators.

However here's my way of thinking discussing this with a friend.
Grab onto a pole or brush-shaft that is fixed and will not move.
Now move your body, back forth side to side. You can feel the motion, weight and physical strain input it puts on the body and arms.

Now do the same thing but have the pole/brush shaft move in relation with your body and keep the same distance at all times.

Does the fixed wheel platform which you will be holding help increase the physical excoriation and weight of your body? Having that movement in my eyes is what creates the illusion in the brain of the forces.

Now compared to full motion sims they use much larger range of movement to convey the forces. They will feel different but anyone on any arcade or motion sim will likely find after a couple of hours it could become more open to motion fatituge or sickness because of the increased movement these produce.

Both Id expect to be very engrossing for most people that buy into such and really maybe like many things their isn't a straight out "one is better" but personal preference has a lot to do with it. D-Box however is not specifically designed for racing cockpit or flight sims as the company clearly looks more to the general entertainment market with their encoding of "Movie Soundtracks" and specialist motion cinema seats. Again check for reviews of US Cinemas that charge a high premium to use these seats, they get pretty much mixed reviews almost like 3D technology is either loved or panned.
 
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I said this a few months ago regarding motion.
IMO motion rigs should have two seperate motion controllers. One for screens/wheel/pedals and a second foe the seat.
The screen setup should run at a slightly different ratio than the seat motion. This would allow the "car" to simulate all dips and roll whilst the seat is moving to simulate g forces.

With my limited ( read as NONE ) experience with motion I honestly have no idea what I'm truly talking about, just theorizing.
Seems to me that if just the seat frame is moving, it just wont feel right. The angle my legs are at from seat to pedal doesn't shift as I take a hard corner ( unless I'm in a highly armoralled bench seat ) in a real car.

Unless I'm totally missing something.


Seatbelt tensioner is a brilliant idea tho.
 
the_greeze
Bingo! People here are slowly coming to grips with the concept! (No offense btw :)) It's not about being thrown about to try and acheive car-like g-forces, it's about fooling the brain into percieved movement. It's called Proprioception :)
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Nobody has said otherwise. It all about fooling your brain as I've said 300 times in my other thread. Which ever sim you choose that is the end effect everyone wants. The D-box provides tactile built into the actuators and since I've got it I haven't even bothered with my tactile under the seat. I use that mainly for PS3 and Xbox now.

Fooling the brain, thats what its all about whether its D-box, CXC, or just tactile.

And Caz, that isn't needed because the on screen cockpit is moving in relation to movement. Its super genuine. Especially if you've lined up your steering wheel to a 1:1 with the on screen cockpit. I've done this and can honestly say I don't need to move the screens as the on screen cockpit moves as my motion rig moves. Super immersive looking through your real steering wheel at the cockpit instruments on the screen.

The four point harness adds to the immersion as it transmits way more movement effect through your body.
 
Makes sense to me.
But your biased. :)
Sorry couldn't resist.

I'm just a jealous hater. Do want your rig!
 
So i guess the debate comes to which motion is better? Partial motion where as the seat is the only one attached to the actuators. Then we have the full frame motion wherein the whole frame including the wheel, pedals and monitors only as option to move a few inches left, right, dip forward and upward with some tactile feedback of bumps and impacts. Then you have the ones with a lot of motion to give you more of the g-force effect that I would prefer if I would invest in a full motion sim. They even go as far as spinning you left or right.

I have heard of comments that those movements would be only good to apply to flight simulator. Well I think I would disagree as I think it would be pretty effective if you would have that type of setup in a pitch black room to take away the distraction of your surroundings with the whole rig in motion. I think given the capability of doing full motion flips and rotation would be even more immersing to simulate when you spin out of control and roll the car in game. Although I haven't seen anyone build one that can actually flip you over and spin you around.

Slightly off topic I just found this site looking for a full motion rotating sim and stumble to this which is located in France. Has anyone been to this place? It apparently is open to the public for a price.

http://uk.i-way-world.com/#21-motor-racing
 
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Yeah if I only knew how to make those actuators work with a PS3 and GT5 I would probably put one on each corner of my RIGG.
 
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Mayaman
Nobody has said otherwise. It all about fooling your brain as I've said 300 times in my other thread. Which ever sim you choose that is the end effect everyone wants. The D-box provides tactile built into the actuators and since I've got it I haven't even bothered with my tactile under the seat. I use that mainly for PS3 and Xbox now.

Fooling the brain, thats what its all about whether its D-box, CXC, or just tactile.
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Actually your the one that stated yourself "your D-Box was garbage". Nobody else did that if I remember. It was you that took the hump and jumped to the wrong conclusions. All just because myself or others are curious to learn how these work or compare to other motion-sims on a technical level. Oh that's right your sick of all the stupid questions. I may be annoying with the questions but their was no real need for your attitude to be the way it was.

Mayaman
Yeah the Vesaro is a great rig. Their offering 25% off till march I think on the four actuator model.
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Why does it use a Buttkicker if the actuators in D-Box are so good?
The model they use is the same Jswilli and I have for LFE effects its their medium performance model BKA 300.

The Feeling:
As one guy kindly pointed out the tactile is limited to 100Hz on D-Box, that's good information yet it falls well behind what good tactile units can achieve. So my point in questioning was could the D-Box experience also be enhanced with what some of us have learned regards using multiple tactile? You have only ever shown your Buttkicker Gamer tactile unit on the forums which lets face it is never going to compete. I recommend you go buy the largest model Buttkicker LFE and a proper powerful amp, run it at 1500w and then come back to us on how it compares in strength to the D-Box tactile. You are possibly too quick to judge things or dismiss things you haven't tried yourself it seems. Others too want to mock using multiple tactile, well all I can say is those on these forums that have asked my help or did eventually go that route, not a single one has said it was a waste of money and enhances their gaming much more over using typical configurations or a mono tactile experience.

The Motion
To fully compare each type of simulator other things need looking at that have not even been mentioned yet. D-Box actuators to my knowledge can lift much heavier loads but work at @200 movments per second. SimXperience updates at upto 250 per second. Does this make much of a difference?

Present & Future
One thing is certain SimXperience and community build motion sims is much larger share of the market than D-Box. So with the community it will always evolve. Thats why things like "Brake Tactile" and the "Rear Traction Loss" have come about with ongoing development. It can become more "Race Cockpit" specific as it is continually developed for and with the community. This includes feedback from professional race drivers themselves.

SimXperience state "The Rear Traction Loss Add-On allows for an even more precise simulation by adding a third actuator arm and motion base extension in order to simulate vehicle rotation in addition to G-Forces! This patent pending design allows drivers to find the edge of traction by feel unlike any competing simulator.."

So personally I'd love to hear from someone that has perhaps experienced both. Yet keep an open mind that each may have its own benefits and suit different people either way.

Oh and by the way this is a discussion, not an argument , not trolling and not causing an issue. Just trying to learn, understand and share an interest many of us are perhaps curious about.
 
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There you go again, you can't help yourself. Actually that garbage comment was tongue in cheek to your constant trolling.

Bottom line, you're pretty insane. Maybe you should attach a tactile device to your head and rattle your brain into normalcy.
 
Mr Latte
Why does it use a Buttkicker if the actuators in D-Box are so good?
The model they use is the same Jswilli and I have for LFE effects its their medium performance model BKA 300.
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Its optional... it will of course add to the immersion to have your butt vibrating but mainly its to gain a few bucks after all its a business.

It would be the Rig Id buy if I had the «time» lol
 

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