Motorsports Trivia Thread!

  • Thread starter Cap'n Jack
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I humbly submit Stuck.

Only Hans and his son Hans-Joachim carry the name Stuck. At two names it's not correct, I'm afraid.

Rodriguez? there were the two brothers Pedro and Ricardo, but it's a pretty popular latin surname.

Well done! There was an Alberto Rodriguez whose only race was his home race, the 1960 Argentine Grand Prix. He finished 9th for Team Lotus.

Most Common

???

Second Most Common

Brabham - Jack, Gary and David Barra333
Villeneuve - Gilles, Jacques Sr and Jacques daan
Hill - Graham, Phil and Damon daan
Fittipaldi - Emerson, Wilson and Christian TenEightyOne
Winkelhock - Manfred, Joachim and Markus daan
Rodriguez - Alberto, Ricardo and Pedro TheCracker
???
???
???
 
Think I've stumbled across it by accident researching driver names to turn into cats (don't ask), but is it Taylor?

Well, just like David Purr-ley, Niki Meauda and Mike Clawthorn, you are correct! Five unrelated Englishmen called Taylor made sporadic appearances between 1959 and 1966.

Dennis Taylor had one race, failing to qualify for the 1959 British Grand Prix.
Henry Taylor was a sometime driver for Reg Parnell Racing 1959-1961.
Mike Taylor DNFed at the 1959 British Grand Prix and DNSed the 1960 Dutch Grand Prix after a horror crash in practice. He even successfully sued Lotus over it.
Trevor Taylor was a Lotus driver in the early 1960s, finishing 2nd at the 1962 Dutch Grand Prix.
John Taylor raced a private Cooper in 1966, scoring a point at Reims before being dying of burns inflicted at the 1966 German Grand Prix.

Most Common

Taylor - Dennis, Trevor, Mike, Henry and John homeforsummer

Second Most Common

Brabham - Jack, Gary and David Barra333
Villeneuve - Gilles, Jacques Sr and Jacques daan
Hill - Graham, Phil and Damon daan
Fittipaldi - Emerson, Wilson and Christian TenEightyOne
Winkelhock - Manfred, Joachim and Markus daan
Rodriguez - Alberto, Ricardo and Pedro TheCracker
???
???
???
 
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Even Taylor was a lucky guess as I didn't go through the list comprehensively, so I could well have missed others. Narrow time period is fairly unusual.

Also, I've not been back through it but you've got a slightly different list of names in their descriptions and in the list below. There's an errant Ian in there and no Trevor.
 
I'm just going to go through some common names, of which I know there were two, in the hope that there's another somewhere.

Stewart - Jackie & Jimmy (There's an Ian Stewart in the back of my head but I don't know if he was just a sports car guy.)
Wilson - Justin & Desire
Nakajima - Satoru & Kazuki

And I don't think there's much chance of another Magnusson or Verstappen.
 
Also, I've not been back through it but you've got a slightly different list of names in their descriptions and in the list below. There's an errant Ian in there and no Trevor.

Fixed. 👍

I'm just going to go through some common names, of which I know there were two, in the hope that there's another somewhere.

Stewart - Jackie & Jimmy
Wilson - Justin & Desire
Nakajima - Satoru & Kazuki

And I don't think there's much chance of another Magnusson or Verstappen.

Two of those are actually correct.

Jackie and Jimmy Stewart are joined by fellow Scot Ian Stewart (no relation), whose only race was the 1953 British Grand Prix just like Jimmy Stewart.

Before Justin Wilson there was Desire Wilson. Before Desire Wilson, Dempsey Wilson competed in the 1958 and 1960 Indy 500s as well as some of the USA GPs around that time too.


Most Common

Taylor - Dennis, Trevor, Mike, Henry and John homeforsummer

Second Most Common

Brabham - Jack, Gary and David Barra333
Villeneuve - Gilles, Jacques Sr and Jacques daan
Hill - Graham, Phil and Damon daan
Fittipaldi - Emerson, Wilson and Christian TenEightyOne
Winkelhock - Manfred, Joachim and Markus daan
Rodriguez - Alberto, Ricardo and Pedro TheCracker
Stewart - Ian, Jimmy and Jackie daan
Wilson - Dempsey, Desire and Justin daan
???

The last name is the hardest. One of the drivers is an Indy driver and the other two are obscure. I'll help you out:

It's a reasonably common English surname and also a colour.
 

Bingo.

Alan Brown scored Cooper's first ever points on his debut at the 1952 Swiss Grand Prix and also gave Vanwall their racing debut but not in F1.
Walter Brown competed at the 1950 and 1951 Indy 500.
Warwick Brown was an Australian driver who had a cup of coffee for one race weekend, finishing 5 laps down at the 1976 United States Grand Prix.

Most Common

Taylor - Dennis, Trevor, Mike, Henry and John homeforsummer

Second Most Common

Brabham - Jack, Gary and David Barra333
Villeneuve - Gilles, Jacques Sr and Jacques daan
Hill - Graham, Phil and Damon daan
Fittipaldi - Emerson, Wilson and Christian TenEightyOne
Winkelhock - Manfred, Joachim and Markus daan
Rodriguez - Alberto, Ricardo and Pedro TheCracker
Stewart - Ian, Jimmy and Jackie daan
Wilson - Dempsey, Desire and Justin daan
Brown - Walter, Alan and Warwick daan

With the most correct, it's your turn to give us a question, daan. 👍
 
Not so much a trivium thing but this website has as its project every Formula One driver (excluding Indy 500) and their Elo rating.

The top five for a best five-year career period are:

1 Ayrton Senna 2,178
2 Michael Schumacher 2,106
3 Lewis Hamilton 2,060
4 Sebastian Vettel 2,056
5 Juan Manuel Fangio 2,053

Nigel Mansell, 30th on the five-year average list with 1,846, is however the best peak driver in Formula One with an all-time highest peak Elo of 2,248.

According to the website project the career average Elo rating is 1,500.

---

I hate mathematics, I don't understand Elo or statistics, but it makes for interesting reading nonetheless. There is a methodology section which outlines how these scores are calculated and tabulated. The one criterion that stands out is that DNFs don't count so a driver in an unreliable car is judged only on the times he finished.
 
This is one I would like other people to help me out with because I don't actually know.

We all know that in 1968 Lotus and Gold Leaf was the watershed first sponsorship of a Formula One team.

When did it first occur in other racing series?
 
This is one I would like other people to help me out with because I don't actually know.

We all know that in 1968 Lotus and Gold Leaf was the watershed first sponsorship of a Formula One team.

When did it first occur in other racing series?
I'm guessing it would be in America with all their "sponsor" specials that raced at Indy.
 
I'm guessing it would be in America with all their "sponsor" specials that raced at Indy.

I suspected that the American cars of the 1950s did have more than just their technical partners' decals. I'm just curious for all major series; USAC, NASCAR, BTCC, ATCC, WSPC.
 
I suspected that the American cars of the 1950s did have more than just their technical partners' decals. I'm just curious for all major series; USAC, NASCAR, BTCC, ATCC, WSPC.
I can't speak for the rest of the world but in Australia, teams that were sponsored by fuel/oil companies ran racing stripes in the colour of the sponsor. It wasn't until advertising on cars was made legal that logos actually started to appear on the cars. Off the top of my head, I'd say in 1969.

Allan Moffat is recognised as the first 'professional' racer in the country thanks to his Trans-Am Mustang wearing Coca-Cola sponsorship logos.
 
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I suspected that the American cars of the 1950s did have more than just their technical partners' decals. I'm just curious for all major series; USAC, NASCAR, BTCC, ATCC, WSPC.

The earliest sponsorship i can see for the BTCC, or British Saloon Car Championship as it was then, was from about 1967. But even then it was little more than suppliers decals and a bigger manufacturers one and that was on the 'works' Alan Mann Escorts. It wasn't until the early 70's when non-suppliers (tyres, brake pads, oil etc) sponsorship started to appear and that tended to be local companies supporting a local driver. In about 72-73 big companies began sponsoring teams - Castrol, Simoniz etc. So that was the first of what you'd class as proper title sponsor liveries. The ETCC may have been a year or so earlier, again with Castrol livery on some Escorts. Alpina fielded 'liveried' BMW 1800/2000s but that was really self promotion.
 
I suspected that the American cars of the 1950s did have more than just their technical partners' decals. I'm just curious for all major series; USAC, NASCAR, BTCC, ATCC, WSPC.
At Indy and the USAC national championship circuit in the 1950's there were non-technical sponsors such as Dean Van Lines and Leader Cards. But these appear to be family owned businesses with a personal involvement in racing and not corporate entities who don't appear to show up until the 60's.
 
Rodger Ward, Kurtis Kraft Offenhauser midget, Sebring 1959.

They invited the then Indy 500 champion to compete in the first F1 championship US grand prix, and he thought his midget, suited for corners, would be better than the European straight line cars. He was wrong and they were faster everywhere, so it was basically a massive embarrassment for him.
 
Rodger Ward, Kurtis Kraft Offenhauser midget, Sebring 1959.

They invited the then Indy 500 champion to compete in the first F1 championship US grand prix, and he thought his midget, suited for corners, would be better than the European straight line cars. He was wrong and they were faster everywhere, so it was basically a massive embarrassment for him.

Ward's 1946 midget racer (with no transmission and outside lever operated rear brakes only) had humbled America's best sports car drivers at twisty Lime Rock earlier in 1959. But with no gears, the little car was hopeless on Sebring's long straights.

In 1963 I had the pleasure of watching Ward take 2nd to Lloyd Ruby at the NW GP at Pacific Raceways, Kent, Washington, with Ward driving a Cooper-Chevy.

Below, Rodger Ward passing Jag and Aston at Lime Rock, 1959.
midget.jpeg

Epic Win: How A Lowly Midget Race Car Beat The Best Sports Cars In The World At A Wild Race In 1959
Oct 02, 2016Brian LohnesBangShift APEX2

The greatest upset in the history of road racing in America came on July 15, 1959 at Lime Rock Park in Connecticut. It was on that day that Rodger Ward drove a direct drive, hand brake, single speed, midget race car to a win against the greatest assemblage of driving talent and machinery ever seen to that point on a US road course. Like all great underdog success stories, several factors played a hand in the end result, but the accomplishment was big enough to garner a full feature in Sports Illustrated and to shake the road racing contingent in America to their core.

Before we get to the race we’ll need to learn a little about some of the actors in this story. The man playing the lead was Rodger Ward, a talented race driver and as big a name as one would find in American speed during the 1950’s and 1960’s. He was a guy who earned a reputation for living his life at 100mph on the race track and 150mph off of it. He drank and partied hard. Ward was like lots of guys who made it through WWII and replaced their adrenaline shots from flying (in Ward’s case P-38 fighters) with racing cars at home. That lifestyle which would have probably precluded his rise to success and fame had it continued, abruptly changed after the 1955 Indy 500 where Bill Vukovitch was killed. Ward’s car had broken an axle, swerved, and caused Vukovitch to swerve, launching his off the race track and the resulting impact killed him. Ward adopted a cleaner more healthy lifestyle and went on to win many races, later acting as both a spokes person and role model for kids wanting to be race car drivers. He won the Indy 500 twice, in 1959 and 1962, dominated hundreds of midget races, and even ran a couple Formula One races. He still holds the two best finishing streaks in Indy history. From 1960 to 1964 he finished no worse than third. To say that 1959 was a good year for Ward would be an understatement.

The race itself is another character to examine. Since the inception of the SCCA, it has been about “club” racing which is a euphemism for “no purse money”. While this makes total sense for the amateur ranks, racers with heavy iron capable of running on a “professional” level were itching for an event where they could actually win something to cover the costs of operating their expensive cars. USAC, which was formed in 1956 seemed and answer to their prayers as they started paying purse money at races and throwing some promotional flair in as well. When they announced the race at Lime Rock, interest was high among racing fans and the racers themselves. Not because of the purse but rather the format.

They called it Formula Libre and it had existed before this race was run but never in this scope. Formula Libre is a fancy pants way of using the old drag racing axiom, “run watcha brung”. The rules were wide open. Literally anything could compete. The announced purse was $5,000, making this one of the richest road races in American history. Accordingly, lots of interesting cars and people signed on to run. Fangio’s former F1 car was entered, Aston Martin factory racers were entered, Porsches and a good ol’ Offy powered midget…actually four.

Outside of Ward’s ride, Tony Bettenhausen, Duane Carter, Brett Brooks, and Russ Klar showed up with midgets to wage war against the army of foreign road racing competitors. We can only imaging the derision that these guys faced when their wee little racers rolled into the tweed jacketed pits of Lime Rock on that weekend in 1959. By the end of the contest those tweed jackets would be absorbing the alligator tears of haughty fans and competitors.

The midget was certainly not “Plan A” for Ward at Lime Rock. After all, when somebody won the Indy 500 in the late 1950’s they were world class stuff. With that win, we’re sure that Ward thought he’s be in one of the European exotics come race day. According to a story by the legendary Chris Economaki, Ward was initially going to drive a full-on race Alfa-Romeo that had been shipped over from Europe. Economaki set up a meeting between the car owner, a NY auto dealer magnate named Charlie Kreisler and Ward. On his own dime, Ward flew out from California and attended the meeting which was interrupted by a phone call. The call came from US racing legend John Fitch. He called to accept Kriesler’s offer to drive the car. Whoops.

Ward was angry having wasted his time but Economaki kept his thinking cap on and eventually suggested Ward contact midget owner Ken Brenn. Brenn agreed to the scheme with the stipulation being that Ward would drive the car at the race. Ward, who wanted in just to beat up on Fitch at this point, accepted the offer and the wheels were set in motion for a grand spectacle at Lime Rock.

Meaning no disrespect to the specific vehicle or breed, Ward’s midget was a farm implement as compared to the offerings that it was surrounded by. It had no transmission, a quick change rear end (which will be vital to the story), a beam front axle, rear-only brakes operated by a hand lever located outside of the car on the right side, a 91-cubic inch Offy four banger, and a transverse “suicide” style front spring. All that being said, it was light as a feather, complicated as a hammer, and powered by that killer little alky-drinkin’ Offy. The cars were also built to take a beating as their primary theaters of action were flat dirt courses at county and state fair grounds across the country. Knowing that, builders like Kurtis went to great lengths to construct cars that could really take a pounding and stay together for the next race.

According to our research, the actual car that Ward was driving was built in 1946 and had competed in more than 1,000 races before rolling through the gate at Lime Rock hooked to the back of Ken Brenn’s Cadillac (which had a spare Offy mill in the trunk!).

Lime Rock is a 1.5-mile road course nestled into the leafy countryside of Connecticut. The track opened in the late 1950’s and incidentally John Fitch, the guy who stole Ward’s ride, worked as the first general manager of the place. We’ve spent more than a couple weekends there and have actually traversed it in anger a time or two. It is compact, technical, and filled with some greatly named sections. “Big Bend”, the “No Name Straight”, “The Uphill”, and “West Bend” are all names you can throw at a road racer worth his salt and immediately he’ll know where you are.

If there was any road course in the country were Ward’s midget could do the impossible it was here at Lime Rock. Because the car had no transmission, it was most vulnerable on the straights. Lime Rock’s are relatively short and the midget, being shockingly agile, could make enough room for itself in the bends that the straights, while nail-biting, were not a deal breaker. (Subsequent midget road racing attempts at places like Sebring and Watkins Glenn were not successful because the little cars got blown off on long straights).

The necessary elements for success were all in position. They were being totally underestimated, the track suited their car, one of the great wheel men in the world was to drive the car and to top it off, he had a point to prove and John Fitch to embarrass.

Race day was divided into the following parts: Qualifying, 20-lap heat race one, 20-lap heat race two, and 60-lap finale. Things got interesting in a hurry for Ward who went out in qualifying and set a new single lap course record running one minute and four seconds around the track at an average speed of 83.5mph. According to the report of Joseph Raff, published by Sports Illustrated on August 3, 1959, the car was running a 4.60:1 gear and turning 7,300RPM at peak around the course.

USAC, in their wisdom, chose to start the races not with the traditional “LeMans” style start where drivers ran to their non-running cars, but with rolling starts due to the midget’s need to be push started.

The first twenty lap heat saw Ward start at the pole position but quickly he fell behind the 4.2L DBR-1 (factory racer) Aston Martin of frequent Lime Rock winner George Constantine. Making up time in the corners and losing it on the straights, Ward battled to a second place finish, one second behind the Aston Martin, but fractions of a second ahead of a race-winning Maserati Formula One car driven by Chuck Daigh.

We told you to remember the part about the quick change rear and here’s why. Ward pulled in and asked Brenn to swap in a taller 4.48:1 gear. In less than 20 minutes and in front of a huge crowd of road racing people who had never seen, much less heard of a “quick change” rear end, the team got their taller gear installed and Ward brought the thunder in the second heat.

From the green flag drop Ward was in front. He had a 10 car length lead by the end of the first lap and according to Raff’s report, aside from a quick off-track trip, Ward was in total command for the middle heat.

Onto the big daddy 60-lapper. The crowd was on its feet from the get-go. Things didn’t start well for our hero and it looked all the world like the midget would just be putting a scare into the sporty car people, not a gut punch. By the 20th lap Ward was holding on to a tenuous lead and then about 40 laps in, Chuck Daigh in the Maserati F1 machine passed Ward and that looked to be that, until lap 48. Ward hung tough before that because he knew the more fuel the car burned the lighter and quicker it would get. Starting off at just 900lbs, a little weight drop went a long way.

Ward dropped the hammer on lap 48 and passed Daigh for the lead, which he never gave up. As they say, the crowd went wild. A great quote from the SI story came from a race official who muttered the words, “We might as well scrap them all,” as the foreign contingent rolled back into the paddock with their tails between their legs.

Chris Economaki claims that Ward once told him that the win at Lime Rock was actually a prouder moment for him than winning the Indy 500 twice. We can see why. It really was astounding and something that nobody, perhaps even Ward expected.

When word got around about this triumph, midgets started showing up more frequently at road racing events. They never did very well. The no transmission thing really doesn’t help on a road course. Lime Rock was the perfect venue because Ward could rev the car to 8,000rpm for short bursts to keep his position or stretch it a little. Unfortunately, the rest of the road courses in America seem to feature longer straights than Lime Rock’s short chutes. Too short a gear would mean a slow straight-away car while too tall a gear would leave a sluggish car that simply couldn’t pull hard enough out of a corner.

We wish we could make a time machine and place ourselves in the Aston Martin and Maserati factories when the news got back to them. Granted, they probably had no clue as to what a midget was, and the teams, if they knew what was good for them, really played the little cars up.

Ward won the day, beat Fitch, and showed the sports car folks that their disrespect for the world of oval racing was unwarranted. Those guys can drive pretty damn well.

That’s the story of an Offy powered midget kicking all ass on a July weekend in 1959 at Lime Rock Park. It is truly one for the ages and cemented Rodger Ward into racing lore. We think this is the most significant upset ever because of a couple factors. The environment where the race was held, the use of completely unproven equipment, and the fact that the vanquished cars and drivers were all of world class quality.
 
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Ward's 1946 midget racer (with no transmission and outside lever operated rear brakes only) had humbled America's best sports car drivers at twisty Lime Rock earlier in 1959. But with no gears, the little car was hopeless on Sebring's long straights.

In 1963 I had the pleasure of watching Ward take 2nd to Lloyd Ruby at the NW GP at Pacific Raceways, Kent, Washington, with Ward driving a Cooper-Chevy.

Below, Rodger Ward passing Jag and Aston at Lime Rock, 1959.
midget.jpeg
Amazing.
 
Apart from Baku, what was the last circuit to have a car in the podium that wasn't a Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull in F1?
 
IIRC it should be Monaco, Perez finished in 3rd in 2016.

We all know that in 1968 Lotus and Gold Leaf was the watershed first sponsorship of a Formula One team.

Y'all know wrongly. Graham Hill debuted the famous red, gold and white livery in Spain, at the second race of the 1968 championship; but local icon John Love entered the first round of the season at Kyalami with a Brabham in the orange-and-brown colors of Gunston cigarettes.
 
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