MR oh no more

[LVracerGT]

I know the differences, but I still feel they handle too differently in the game. They handle as though the weight distribution is completely different, but they are the same in real life. I know this is only one element of the performance and handling, but the GT physics are very reliant on the weight distribution to determine differences. Or at least that is my experience.

They are not and should not be the same handling wise. Pretty sure the Scuderia is much lighter due to the interior basically being stripped, the suspension tuning was revised, and it got the electronic rear diff from Ferrari's F1 technology. All will have a tremendous effect on the way the car handles, which is exactly why Ferrari made the Scuderia in the first place, they didn't make it much faster, the goal was to make it go around corners better.

 

[NJ72]

It is 100kg lighter, yes, which is a large amount on a car like that which only weighs about 1200kg to start with; as well as the suspension and the rear diff. If you modify the F430 to the same spec (the only thing you can't really alter is the swanky e-diff) and the F430 still handles too differently IMHO.

As I stated in the first post, I've not driven either on a track, but from my experience with driving other cars on track and their sportier counterparts, I can't see how the scuderia is THAT different.

 

[Johnnypenso]

They are not and should not be the same handling wise. Pretty sure the Scuderia is much lighter due to the interior basically being stripped, the suspension tuning was revised, and it got the electronic rear diff from Ferrari's F1 technology. All will have a tremendous effect on the way the car handles, which is exactly why Ferrari made the Scuderia in the first place, they didn't make it much faster, the goal was to make it go around corners better.

I don't think PD's car modelling takes things to that much detail. I think cars come with some very basic programmed attributes like total overall grip, weight distribution and tire grade and not much more. My guess is that what @NJ72 and others is experiencing is this hidden programming and something else few people are even aware of, which is differing tire grades. Hybriding revealed that all tires come with standard grades + C and V grades. You might have a Sports Soft displayed on your screen, but there are three types of sports softs and you don't know which you have unless you hybrid or can see the code. All have differing levels of longitudinal and lateral grip. Take the Scuderia, slightly alter the overall grip level (which you can't see) and throw on a different tire grade (which you can't see) and voila, you've got a standard issue 430.

If PD didn't do extensive testing on these different tire compounds and levels of grip when they rolled out the suspension model it might explain a lot of the problems some people are having with certain MR's. You can tell from driving the Stratos for example that it doesn't have the top grade SH tires on it, it has the worst grip in all directions, meaning it has the weakest possible grade tires.

 

[LVracerGT]

I don't think PD's car modelling takes things to that much detail.

I disagree. They supposedly have a very advanced suspension model with their new partnership with KW Supsensions so I think the suspension tuning is probably more detailed than you think. Also, they have the yaw control system that the Mitsubishi Evo has modeled so I don't think it would be that difficult for PD to model an E-diff. And considering how anal Ferrari are about their cars in video games, I'm sure PD made sure the handling on them is as accurate as possible.

 

[NJ72]

I disagree. They supposedly have a very advanced suspension model with their new partnership with KW Supsensions so I think the suspension tuning is probably more detailed than you think. Also, they have the yaw control system that the Mitsubishi Evo has modeled so I don't think it would be that difficult for PD to model an E-diff. And considering how anal Ferrari are about their cars in video games, I'm sure PD made sure the handling on them is as accurate as possible.

That's a fair shout, but I don't honestly think they put 1200+ cars onto the KW Suspension testing rigs prior to GT6. If that's what they're doing for GT7 it's going to be a long wait...

 

[LVracerGT]

It is 100kg lighter, yes, which is a large amount on a car like that which only weighs about 1200kg to start with; as well as the suspension and the rear diff. If you modify the F430 to the same spec (the only thing you can't really alter is the swanky e-diff) and the F430 still handles too differently IMHO.

As I stated in the first post, I've not driven either on a track, but from my experience with driving other cars on track and their sportier counterparts, I can't see how the scuderia is THAT different.

Watch this, there was a lot of changes Ferrari made between the normal 430 and the Scuderia.

 

[Voodoovaj]

My only problem is that MR cars tend to be a little less accessible for those of us using a dualshock rather than a wheel.

Nope, not even that. If you tune the MR cars properly, they are all pretty fast. Actually, I'm trying to think of one that isn't....V16T maybe??

Watch this, there was a lot of changes Ferrari made between the normal 430 and the Scuderia.

There is one game system. All the cars fit into it. As @Johnnypenso said, there are parameter tweaks to produce different results.


If anyone has an issue with their MR car, try the wizard out or go search for a tune in the tuning thread. You'll be surprised at the difference a good tune makes.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I find any MR car that is not an Audi R8 LMS Ultra to be well behaved. Sometimes I honestly put on that steering aid thing when I don't want to spend most of my concentration on keeping it straight under braking. Every other MR car I can do without it.

 

[StaryStarego]

ok so ive made a little research today

well known fact is that MR cars deal some stability for grip at high and medium speed turns

that is not true in this game (excluding of course the fact that maybe there still are no proper tunes for MR)

tunes = praiano
PP = 550

NSX base
NSX raybrig
NSX loctite mugen

all maxed out theyr grip at 170 KMH

Impul Calsonic GT-R howerer easily achieved 180 KMH on the same turn.

Shouldn't it be the other way????

 

[Johnnypenso]

I disagree. They supposedly have a very advanced suspension model with their new partnership with KW Supsensions so I think the suspension tuning is probably more detailed than you think. Also, they have the yaw control system that the Mitsubishi Evo has modeled so I don't think it would be that difficult for PD to model an E-diff. And considering how anal Ferrari are about their cars in video games, I'm sure PD made sure the handling on them is as accurate as possible.

The suspension modeling is not the same as the handling attributes assigned to each car. IMO they didn't use the KW system to design a unique suspension model for every single car, they designed one or several models (racing, street etc.) with the system and then applied the same model to all the cars. Each car then has it's own unique signature combination of grip, tire model, weight distribution (rotation) etc. It's that unique combination of attributes that make each car different not the KW suspension model.

To make a Ferrari 458 Italia is simple for example. Take the basic suspension model, add in it's inherent good weight distribution which determines how it rotates and whether it under or oversteers, then assign a grip level to it and the best tires. It can have the same suspension model for example as the Scuderia but the 458 might have 110 grip and the Scuderia might have only 108 grip level. The 512 BB could have the exact same suspension model but only 98 grip and C or V rated tires and it will feel like a completely different car.

Just by moving a few sliders around with hybriding or changing the tire model, you could operate within a fixed PP target and completely change the feel and performance of a car. You could turn a Corvette into an HSC or an Alfa 8C into an M3 CSL it was actually fairly simple once you figured it out.

The base suspension model is very complicated and detailed I'm sure, but what makes each car unique is not. At least it appears that way through hybriding and reverse engineering.

 

[super_gt]

The fact that many MR's are indeed very fast, doesn't mean that some of them don't have wonky handling. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Lion-Face]

What? In GT5 the NSX GT500 were FAR better than the GTR's... but the standard ones, not the premium ones.
Here in GT6 the GTR's seem to be exactly the same but the NSX seem to have became much worse.

Yeah sorry about that. The standard nsx's were so good in gt5 it felt like cheating driving them. I didn't make it clear in my post (I didn't state at all) but I was actually referencing my experiance with thr premium nsx's, namely the Takata dome '06 model that I drive almost exclusively when it comes to gt500