My personal in-depth view on GTSport, judging from the Beta

  • Thread starter G.T.Ace
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We'll talk about this again, when you played it yourself. ;)

I thought you might say that!

I just think we need more consensus on this, perhaps from Dabomb himself even. If someone can make easy work of driving a particular car or whatever, I generally just accept it, but wouldn't complain about it. But that's just me. Many racing cars in reality are the domain of the tiny few or just one even, and if they are competitive, it is usually just accepted.
 
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Scaff

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No I haven't played GTS Beta yet. I know in GT6 that cars like the Audi R8 LMS or Ford GT Test Car aren't really usable as standard and need quite a few adjustments to get them to be really good in the majority of corners on any given track but they still have this inherent oversteer in usually one corner at least which causes you to put up with it or just drive more carefully....but it's a worthwhile compromise overall IMO.

You say that oversteer is more prominent in GTS...it makes you wonder why this might be considering PD have had many many years simulating the handling of these cars.....could it be that they might just be getting closer to reality with many or some cars and that the very nature of playing a game at home inevitably brings out the worst in them? I'd like to think they have somebody testing each car so that it is somewhat user friendly, using a decent steering wheel at least.
Except the basic laws of physics say it shouldn't be happening.

In GTS mid engine cars will oversteer while on a slightly increasing throttle during cornering.

Given that in those circumstances load is moving backwards and off the front, will out sufficient torque being applied to the rear to overcome grip, it should not be happening. These conditions are direct factors in understeer and certainly should not be causing oversteer.

The cause all points to PD still using a single rotational point physics model that doesn't take sufficient account of what tyres do in cars with low polar moments of inertia.
 
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Except the basic laws of physics say it shouldn't be happening.

In GTS mid engine cars will oversteer while on a slightly increasing throttle during cornering.

Given that in those circumstances load is moving backwards and off the front, will out sufficient torque being applied to the rear to overcome grip, it should not be happening. These conditions are direct factors in understeer and certainly should not be causing oversteer.

The cause all points to PD still using a single rotational point physics model that doesn't take sufficient account of what tyres do in cars with low polar moments of inertia.

This is the characteristic in just some corners on any given track with the R8 LMS and GT Test Car in GT6. They start to oversteer once you increase the throttle in typically 3rd and 4th gear corners after some direction change. I speculated that this trait was because these cars are modelled on relatively heavy ones that are limited by mid-corner grip, have a short wheel base, and the rear tyres were very very close to their limit because they produce plenty of bite just before increasing the throttle. The suspension settings also reflect that there isn't much in reserve either to try and reduce weight transfer as well, to minimise the break away or oversteer....so I thought maybe the tyres were just a bit undersized, but you stated it is something much more fundamental though.
 

Scaff

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This is the characteristic in just some corners on any given track with the R8 LMS and GT Test Car in GT6. They start to oversteer once you increase the throttle in typically 3rd and 4th gear corners after some direction change. I speculated that this trait was because these cars are modelled on relatively heavy ones that are limited by mid-corner grip, have a short wheel base, and the rear tyres were very very close to their limit because they produce plenty of bite just before increasing the throttle. The suspension settings also reflect that there isn't much in reserve either to try and reduce weight transfer as well, to minimise the break away or oversteer....so I thought maybe the tyres were just a bit undersized, but you stated it is something much more fundamental though.
It does it with all MR cars I've tried in GTS, including the Evora, it's a situation that would not matter if the rears were marginal before you applied the throttle as it does it on gradual throttle application. Which would shift weight back and provide more rear grip and less front grip.

It is in short, wrong.
 

cjr3559

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Here's a video of the R8 at Brands and whilst the tail steps out a little bit every other corner whilst losing a tiny amount of time, I wouldn't describe it as snap oversteer. It's extremely hard to get a car perfectly balanced and I just think it's the inherent characteristic of the R8 that has to be put up with because the benefits of it then being neutral in corners that induce understeer are huge especially when your rivals might be struggling with understeer in those particular corners driving a different car.

I've seen quite a lot of online races and it looks a nightmare for anyone driving consistently, so why are so many of you having to mix it with those that are erratic? Damage would be a good thing.


First of all @DaBomb330 is a really, really outstanding driver, but you're missing the point.
Of course you can drive a clean lap with the Audi, or any car in GTS, but the driving techniques you have to utilize for that are unrealistic. The video you posted is also a race against the really lackluster AI. Once you have to push on the limit 100% these flaws are much more noticable. Have to leave the racing line? Are you in the slipstream losing aero-grip and gain speed? Well, good luck with clean driving.

@G.T.Ace

I'm not missing the point; I know Dabomb is a really good driver. I think snap oversteer is too aggressive a description. I'd describe snap oversteer as breaking away with no or very very little warning at all, and if that were the case, Dabomb wouldn't have been able to post this video.

And I know that's the AI...it was just to show the R8 in action.

The secret behind the video is the car setup, whatever it is.
 
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The secret behind the video is the car setup, whatever it is.

Yes, not to take anything away from the driver though, and even then the setup is possibly in a small window that is tricky to drive too.

BTW, the wheel makes a difference as well. I've used a DFGT for years but now use a T300 RS and noticed steering correction is a fraction faster.
 

cjr3559

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Setup in that vid was default with bop applied. The only reason it's any good for me is my love for oversteer :D.

I don't recall Bop being applied in arcade mode when it was available. I don't have the R8 yet but I'm kind of surprised it rev limits in 6th gear on the straights with the default transmission. The only way I can tame the MR cars in this game are by waiting to floor the accelerator once the car is fully straight coming out of a turn. Too much power too early almost always results in terrible oversteer and a spin. The Alfa Gr. 4 behaves like this, but some of the others haven't been too bad (McLaren, Renault Gr. 3's come to mind). During the Sport Mode testing I run with default settings most of the time and TCS 0. The only settings I change are suspension on certain tracks. I don't delve into the LSD settings much if ever.
 
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I don't recall Bop being applied in arcade mode when it was available. I don't have the R8 yet but I'm kind of surprised it rev limits in 6th gear on the straights with the default transmission. The only way I can tame the MR cars in this game are by waiting to floor the accelerator once the car is fully straight coming out of a turn. Too much power too early almost always results in terrible oversteer and a spin. The Alfa Gr. 4 behaves like this, but some of the others haven't been too bad (McLaren, Renault Gr. 3's come to mind). During the Sport Mode testing I run with default settings most of the time and TCS 0. The only settings I change are suspension on certain tracks. I don't delve into the LSD settings much if ever.
It's not you have apply it yourself
 

cjr3559

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It's not you have apply it yourself

So you copy/pasted the BoP settings from Sport mode to Arcade mode? I can't see how you could use some of the BoP settings from Sport Mode like adding/subtracting weight/power. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
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I updated the op to reflect my views on 1.05. Shamefully copy and pasted from the Beta forums, where I posted the same.
 
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This is one game, GT Sport, which I am looking forward to enormously. It is taking so long though, I am constantly checking to see if a release date has been released !!

I also did not have a chance of having the Beta. You guys are really lucky to be able to try it.

There is only one driving sim - it is Gran Turismo. Forget all of the others friends.
 
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This is one game, GT Sport, which I am looking forward to enormously. It is taking so long though, I am constantly checking to see if a release date has been released !!

I also did not have a chance of having the Beta. You guys are really lucky to be able to try it.

There is only one driving sim - it is Gran Turismo. Forget all of the others friends.
You should really try these games AC (asseto corsa) Automobilista,RFactor1+2,Raceroom although some are PC only but all great games I love racing so I have all the racing games i can get hold oh almost forgot to mention Project Cars. And this year and next look really promising for us racers
 
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Thanks man, I hear ya. But it is obvious that the more effort and man hours that go into something the better the finished product invariably is. Polyphony have a much bigger budget than all of the others combined probably and this is why Gran Turismo will always be the most polished and overall, best.
 
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Thanks man, I hear ya. But it is obvious that the more effort and man hours that go into something the better the finished product invariably is. Polyphony have a much bigger budget than all of the others combined probably and this is why Gran Turismo will always be the most polished and overall, best.

I had to chuckle after reading this, but GT5 and GT6 are anything but polished, despite a for the time absolutely gigantic budget. I honestly don't have much hope for the finished GTS product because of those two games. Ongoing support is also a massive issue Polyphony never really bothered with, but is paramount of a game which is based around online competition.

Scepticism is the best you could describe my current expectation for GTS with. It's been over a decade since Kaz made any coherent and complete product.
 
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...and this is why Gran Turismo will always be the most polished and overall, best.

Unfortunately, Gran Turismo has not been that well polished in the recent past. The successes of GT5 and GT6 came in spite of the fact that they were buggy as fudgecake and unfinished respectively.

A big budget does not automatically equal a great product. There are plenty of AAA flops that can attest to this.
 

Scaff

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Thanks man, I hear ya. But it is obvious that the more effort and man hours that go into something the better the finished product invariably is. Polyphony have a much bigger budget than all of the others combined probably and this is why Gran Turismo will always be the most polished and overall, best.
GTS certainly is looking like a far more polished product that either GT5 or GT6 ever were.

However any claim of it being the 'only one driving sim' is shown to be untrue the moment you drive it. Pcars and AC have it utterly beat in terms of physics and FFB right now.
 

CLowndes888

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Thanks man, I hear ya. But it is obvious that the more effort and man hours that go into something the better the finished product invariably is. Polyphony have a much bigger budget than all of the others combined probably and this is why Gran Turismo will always be the most polished and overall, best.
It may be polished in terms of graphics and presentation, but nothing else as of now.
 
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GTS certainly is looking like a far more polished product that either GT5 or GT6 ever were.

However any claim of it being the 'only one driving sim' is shown to be untrue the moment you drive it. Pcars and AC have it utterly beat in terms of physics and FFB right now.

Gotta include iRacing here too, given that GTS seems to be trying to imitate its online system to a certain degree if nothing else. It's almost become synonymous with the term "multiplayer racing sim".
 

Johnnypenso

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Gotta include iRacing here too, given that GTS seems to be trying to imitate its online system to a certain degree if nothing else. It's almost become synonymous with the term "multiplayer racing sim".
One of the key elements of the iRacing system is you can't progress through the licensing system and race most of the cars until your SR rating is good enough. That provides a huge incentive to anyone that really wants to get the most out of the game to work on their racecraft and incident avoidance skills. It'll never happen in Gran Turismo IMO, but I think it would go a long way to eliminating some of the atrocious behaviour we see in the beta if those same drivers were limited to driving N200 cars until they proved they were worthy of moving up to N300, N400 or Gr. 4.