My thought about the G27 issue

[cheso]

This thread is aimed especially to those who know, what the issue with the Logitech G25/G27 wheels is. As we know, there's no official support for the wheels in GT5 yet. The reason, as discussed in many threads before, is giving the Thrustmaster T500RS an easier start on the market and making it more popular, with the G25/G27 being nerfed in some ways. The issues are not major, but they could influence the thinking of some future customers and make them decide upon the T500RS, although it's a lot more expensive.

The other issue that wasn't discussed that much, was the availability of the G27 (the G25 isn't sold anymore, because of it's newer version, the G27). The G27 became unavailable, out of stock, or very hard to get just about a month before the release of GT5. I myself had a hard time getting it just before Christmas. It was out of stock even on Logitech's official website. As of today (it might have been a few days ago actually, but not more than a week), it is again in stock everywhere: .

As we know Logitech also has it's mainstream official GT5 wheel, the DFGT, so there might have been an agreement between PD and Logitech about making the G27 unavailable for a few months, still pushing their other product, the DFGT, but not having a similar product in the higher-end category. Now that the T500RS has been out for a month or so, it looks like there's been enough time for customers to decide and the G27 doesn't endanger the sales of the T500RS that much anymore. With this, in my opinion, the next GT5 update should also contain G25/G27 support.

Feel free to comment, this is only my personal opinion, I might as well be wrong.

 

[TouringBubble]

I do think that limiting "official" support of the G25/27 is strategic on the part of PD. Logitech has been the maker of the "official" wheel in the past though, and that's what kind of puts a wrench in the idea.

Why would PD purposely screw over Logitech who makes so many peripherals and is a possible vendor for an official GT6 wheel? That's where I get lost.

I can't really buy in to Pd having some specific need for GT5 that the G25/27 ... the most common wheel for a dedicated sim driving enthusiast for several years ... didn't meet. It is ridiculous to think that PD assumes they have enough pull in the market, with their one racing title, to change how wheels are made and effectively render useless the thousands of wheels that enthusiasts have invested in.

Basically, the G25/27 exceeds the specs of the DFGT and DFP wheels, aside from their integrated GT support (rotary dial). there is no technical reason that they are supported and the G25/27 is not.

 

[cheso]

Why would PD purposely screw over Logitech who makes so many peripherals and is a possible vendor for an official GT6 wheel? That's where I get lost.

I don't think they screwed them over. They just made an agreement. DFGT over the G27 for a while.

 

[sid77]

The only thing nerfed on my G27 is the ability to assign horn/wipers and access the RA menu. After nearly 600 days of play I can't honestly say I have never missed any of those functions.

It's still a joy to drive.

 

[t.o.]

The other issue that wasn't discussed that much, was the availability of the G27 (the G25 isn't sold anymore, because of it's newer version, the G27). The G27 became unavailable, out of stock, or very hard to get just about a month before the release of GT5. I myself had a hard time getting it just before Christmas. It was out of stock even on Logitech's official website. As of today (it might have been a few days ago actually, but not more than a week), it is again in stock everywhere: .

I don't understand what this has to do with the wheel not being supported.

 

[cheso]

I don't understand what this has to do with the wheel not being supported.

That not only they nerfed the wheel, but probably also made an agreement with Logitech to make it unavailable. Now that it's available, there might be support coming too.

 

[TouringBubble]

I don't think they screwed them over. They just made an agreement. DFGT over the G27 for a while.

I'm sure that when the game launched and there was no support, and the interwebz blew up about how it wasn't supported, many people decided to go with a supported solution ... which is now the recommended Thrustmaster wheel. Basically, it had (at least) the potential to hurt Logitech sales of the G27.

With the backorder, it doesn't seem that way though. Not sure. I'm sure there was still a potential v actual sales delta that was skewed with the support issue.

 

[t.o.]

That not only they nerfed the wheel, but probably also made an agreement with Logitech to make it unavailable. Now that it's available, there might be support coming too.

So Logitech held back on having it's wheels available at the optimum time for sales so that another company could rake in the dough? I just don't see that happening.

 

[cheso]

So Logitech held back on having it's wheels available at the optimum time for sales so that another company could rake in the dough? I just don't see that happening.

Try to read my first post again, what I'm trying to say is that the deal between PD and Logitech was that they'll support and advertise they DFGT, if Logitech holds back the G27 for a couple of months.

 

[TouringBubble]

But they haven't pushed the DFGT though ... they've pushed the Thrustmaster wheel for a while now as the "official" wheel.

 

[Parker]

That not only they nerfed the wheel, but probably also made an agreement with Logitech to make it unavailable. Now that it's available, there might be support coming too.

I think that is pretty far off base, but regardless it's your opinion and you;re entitled to it.

I don't get all these people that talk about PD "nerfing" the G27. I think it works perfectly fine, and seeing as how PD never said the G27 would be officially supported I don't see why people though it would be, especially since they already have an official Logitech GT wheel. They also fixed the most important issue, which was the lack of paddle shifter support from GT5 so it really doesn't bother me that I can't assign functions to the buttons on the wheel. I'd much rather have paddle shifters than that.

Also, there has been a "shortage" of G27's long before GT5 was released. I had a hell of a time trying to find mine, and had to wait for months because everywhere that listed one had it backordered, so again, I don't think it had anything to do with GT5's release.

 

[TouringBubble]

I agree ... I don't think the G25/27 isn't well supported ... but it isn't "completely" supported. It just needs button mapping. GT5 even supports the sequential mode of the G25, where PC sims don't even do that automatically.

 

[alexleighton]

I tend to think Logitech and PD/Sony are no longer partners, I don't think there's any deals with them at all.

The DFGT is likely under a contract to still be manufactured, but once that contract is up I bet we'll see just the Thrustmaster being the official wheel.

 

[Mysterious R]

Only reason G27 was hard to find was the demand for GT5. So many people went out and bought wheels just for GT5 that even Logitechs own warehouse was probably empty from retailers bulking up on stocks which here they sold at almost twice the price advertised say 12 months before GT5's announced release date.

 

[TouringBubble]

It took Logitech 3 months to ship a replacement power supply to me ... it was the universal one used on nearly every US wheel. They don't stock their warehouses well when it comes to wheels.

 

[cheso]

I think that is pretty far off base, but regardless it's your opinion and you;re entitled to it.

I don't get all these people that talk about PD "nerfing" the G27. I think it works perfectly fine, and seeing as how PD never said the G27 would be officially supported I don't see why people though it would be, especially since they already have an official Logitech GT wheel. They also fixed the most important issue, which was the lack of paddle shifter support from GT5 so it really doesn't bother me that I can't assign functions to the buttons on the wheel. I'd much rather have paddle shifters than that.

Also, there has been a "shortage" of G27's long before GT5 was released. I had a hell of a time trying to find mine, and had to wait for months because everywhere that listed one had it backordered, so again, I don't think it had anything to do with GT5's release.

I fully agree with the fact they never said it'd be supported, but, on the other hand, why is there full support and button mapping for older Logitech wheels?

 

[cairnz]

As long as they fix the wheel getting out of calibrated spot (it'll always want to turn more to the left even while going straight) and put e-brake on a thumb button, i'll be more than happy about the rest. Too annoying to keep unplugging/plugging the wheel to fix what's "center"

 

[cheso]

As long as they fix the wheel getting out of calibrated spot (it'll always want to turn more to the left even while going straight) and put e-brake on a thumb button, i'll be more than happy about the rest. Too annoying to keep unplugging/plugging the wheel to fix what's "center"

I don't have the problem with the centering, first time I hear about it.

 

[R34EVO9]

I really wanna get this wheel and I know it has small issues in the game but is it worth it though?

 

[cheso]

I really wanna get this wheel and I know it has small issues in the game but is it worth it though?

it is definitely worth it

 

[cairnz]

I don't have the problem with the centering, first time I hear about it.

It doesn't happen with every car, but for example on the time trial 5 197 bhp using the 240 or 280 it gets off all the time.

edit:
Atleast i haven't noticed it with all cars. It seems to be a hardware issue, i will talk to Logitech tomorrow to see where i go about to get it replaced.

 

[rexc]

The only thing nerfed on my G27 is the ability to assign horn/wipers and access the RA menu. After nearly 600 days of play I can't honestly say I have never missed any of those functions.

The one thing I really miss is the ability to look left and right. In the middle of a Nascar pack that is an absolute must.


I posted this transcript in another thread, and while tongue in cheek, it sums up what I think is the real issue here. Basically, money !!

Hi Kaz, Phil from Logitech here. How are you going ?

Very well thank you Phil.

Yeah, ah, just ringing to say very well done with your game. We're playing it a lot over here. A fantastic effort from you and your team.

Thats very kind of you to say so Phil.

Look ah Kaz, while I've got you on the phone, there's one little thing I'd like to talk to you about. In your next patch release, we're ah wondering if you can include a few lines of code to get the butttons on the G27 working.

Oh, you want us to support the G-series ? Well yeah, thats no problem Phil. If you're happy we can just do it on the same basis as the Driving Force series. Then you guys can use our logo on the product, in your advertising, you know, whatever.

Ah, yeah, ah, see, ah, here's the thing Kaz. We're already paying you quite a bit of money for the Driving Force to be an offically licensed wheel. We don't really want to pay all that money again just to get a few buttons working, if you know what I mean.

But the G-series is a different wheel...

Yes I know its a different wheel Kaz, but ....

... and we don't have an agreement for the G-series.

... we're talking about a few lines of code here Kaz.

Well Phil, like I said, we're very happy to support it on the same basis as the Driving Force series.

Ok, umm, look, ah, Kaz, lets come at this from a different angle shall we. Our customer service department is getting a lot of emails from G27 users wondering when their buttons are going to work. Now I'm sure you at Polyphony are getting emails from these very same people too...

Well with respect Phil, I have to say that is your problem. You are the ones that said that the G27 worked wth GT5 on your website . We've always been very careful at our end never to say that.

Yes, I know you have Kaz, but we're talking about some of your most loyal fans here. These aren't the people sitting on a couch playing a bit of Gran Turismo with a controller. These are the people that went out and spent a couple of hundred dollars on a wheel to get the very best out of your game ...

I appreciate that Phil, but we've never said the G-series worked with ...

Yes I know, I know ... and we don't have an agreement. But Kaz really, does it really have to be this big commercial issue just to get some buttons working ? I mean we talking about a few lines of code here Kaz, can't it just, you know, just happen ? For the fans Kaz, for the fans.

Well unfortunately Phil, it is a commerical issue. If it was just you and me we could probably work something out, but Thrustmaster are involved in this now. They're serious about cracking the top end of the wheel market and they see Gran Turismo as their way in. They've paid us a truck load of money to be an official fully supported wheel, and now you want the G-series to have the same support when you've paid us nothing ...

We haven't exactly paid you nothing, Kaz ....

... nothing for the G-series. Well you can see how Thrustmaster might get their noses seriously out of joint. If suddenly there is a G-series tuning screen in the controller options, well, they're going to wonder just what it was that they paid all that money for. Just to use our logo ? I think they were expecting a little more exclusivity than that...

Well Kaz, thats between you and Thrustmaster, and it doesn't help your fans who ...

Yes, Phil, but again, if we were to give you for free, what we've made Thustmaster pay a whole lot of money for, well, at the very least they will want a substantial refund of their licensing fee, and will probably get lawyers involved. It could all get very messy.

Yes, Kaz, but in the meantime it's your fans who are missing out, all for the want of a few lines of code Kaz.

Now, if you want to license the G-series on the same basis as the Driving Force series, Phil, and I must say that's a very reasonable rate compared to what Thrustmaster are paying, then I'm sure we can get this all resolved fairly quickly...

Well, however reasonable the rate Kaz, you're still asking us to pay a whole new licensing fee just to include a few lines of code to get a couple of buttons working....

.... so thanks for your call Phil, and let us know if you want us to proceed.

Kaz, Kaz, are you there Kaz, Hello ?

 

[sk0pe]

The other issue that wasn't discussed that much, was the availability of the G27 (the G25 isn't sold anymore, because of it's newer version, the G27). The G27 became unavailable, out of stock, or very hard to get just about a month before the release of GT5. I myself had a hard time getting it just before Christmas. It was out of stock even on Logitech's official website. As of today (it might have been a few days ago actually, but not more than a week), it is again in stock everywhere: .


Feel free to comment, this is only my personal opinion, I might as well be wrong.

Ummm ever heard of people buying gifts around about christmas time? That is one of the most ridiculous things ive ever read on these forums, i'm still stunned you would actually type that without thinking that there are other people in the world trying to buy that wheel at the same time.

There is conspiracy theory's and then there is just plain stupidity, decide which catergory you fall into..

 

[cairnz]

That was also the issue in Norway. No online dealers (except one) had in stock, and no stores in the capital had in stock (except one demo model a store wanted 3600 NOK/~600 USD for). I ordered mine from the only online dealer in stock (did not check logitech site though).

 

[cheso]

Ummm ever heard of people buying gifts around about christmas time? That is one of the most ridiculous things ive ever read on these forums, i'm still stunned you would actually type that without thinking that there are other people in the world trying to buy that wheel at the same time.

There is conspiracy theory's and then there is just plain stupidity, decide which catergory you fall into..

First off, don't make me choose a category, face the mirror your way first.

Also, I'm not sure if you can do it, but try to read the last line of my post.

My last question, although I could be wrong, do you think international companies (like Logitech) don't prepare themselves for Christmas? In my opinion, most of these companies has a calendar and know when to double their production. Trust me, if they want, they can do it.

 

[SavageEvil]

Just saying, I'm pretty sure that G25/27 are not officially supported wheels and are not pushed as wheels designed for GT5. In fact neither wheel was built to be fully supported by a PS3 to being with, PS3 just happens to use the HID drivers just like any other PC so G25/27 work because all wheels built by Logitech use the same HID drivers. Logitech isn't stupid, why wouldn't they build higher quality wheels that offer precision and not overly expensive? They won't say that G25/27 are compatible with GT5 but their wheels are just upgraded versions of their other specially labeled products. Coincidence that the G25/27 run on the same settings as the DFP? Logitech is getting money from at least 3 different products stemming from association with one game.

I for one find $500 a bit much for a peripheral, that cost more than the system you are going to use it on, to each his own. I did spend about 250 on my G25 but that was over 3 years ago and I was playing GT4 on my PS3 enjoying monster FFB until the Immersion lawsuit that saw that turned off for a while. It's all about the money, Logitech stands to make the most profit, considering they have two products at much more affordable price points than Thrustmaster.

 

[floppydisk]

the G27 just simply gives you a 'racing' or 'driving a race car' feel...other steering wheel out there is just nothing but a toy controller.

 

[ParksidE001]

Although I agree with above sentiment, I'd have to say that the resounding factor in my purchasing a G27 was that it gives me wood!

 

[STIG_RS6]

Here's my 2p's worth, I'm getting a wheel in 1-2 months time (maybe less) and if the G27doesn't get fully supported for GT5 I'll be getting the Thrustmaster.

 

[GTP_Vice]

Good afternoon.

You can map the buttons with the g25/27.
Just set it as a DFP.

Then, just buy a steering wheel and an adaptor.

It makes the game feel real. it makes you work hard, and move your hands really fast.

cheers