N2 tires=Closest RL times

[LFRANCOF483]

Tsukuba Circuit-N3s time attack

RSX-R 1.08.879 BM: 1.08.04

R34 Vspec 1.04.701 BM: 1.04.57

Supra RZ 1.05.364 BM: 1.06.XXX

Civic R (EP) 1.09.232 BM: 1.08.98

RX8 1.06.511 BM:???? i think i remember seeing a 1.07.xxx somewhere

M3'04 343hp 1.04.511 BM:???

Laps completed for each car 5.

hmm very interesting.......these N3s...speechless.

best timefor the M3 in best motoring is 1.06.xxx

but you shouldn't really take best motoring's time too seriously...i mean i love the show, i have most of the DVD's that are out....but BMI is known to be very biased towards their domestic cars.........i too have gotten the M3 ito the 1.04 second range, 1.04.121 to be exact.....and i consistently have Japan's super domestics to be at the same time or slower......so why is it that best Motoring has the M3 trailing far behind the likes of the Skyline, NSX, Evo, etc.....

in BMI, the M3 lost to the 350Z and only beat the 350Z in the best lap time by a couple of tenths of a second.....if PD claims these lap times and car handling to be to within 1% of ther real life counterparts, then BMI is doing something....i consistenly get 2 second or more faster lap times then the 350Z with the M3.....and the M3 is on par with the super domestics mentioned above.......

also JAG, best motoring tests their cars no matter what condition.....they could have tested their cars in colder weather, hotter weather.....GT4 cannot simply deal with all of those conditions that factor into lap times....also, i usually test in N3 tires.......doesn't really matter what kind of tires you use because even PD said that their lap times are a little off so you're hardly ever gonna get the real life lap times, just use the to compare cars.....just as long as all the cars you are comparing have the same tires.....and yes, the M3 consistently beats the 350Z and is on par with the super domestics contradictory to Best Motoring.....

sorry, wasn't nagging at any of you.......just thought (and heard around) that BMI is really biased and it pissed me off to somewhat know that the M3 could have done better

Don't even get me started on the M3 CSL and the '03 NSX-R

 

[Hyde]

Like i said I am taking correct lines and even trying different ones. Hiroke i see what you mean about powering over at will. most cars that power over in n1s, will power over in n2s eg. R34, M3/5. But yes i agree using anything above N2s is too grippy, very hard to power over the m5.

there is no such thing as "too grippy" those N1,2,3 tires just offer way less grip then what real life high end sport tires. first u have never driven a real car, u have no idea how cars handle in real life. most cars u test in real life are equip with some of the best sport tires. similar to S1 and S2

those N1,2,3 tires are tires that perform like all season tires.

 

[Gabkicks]

hmm.. maybe they arent high end sports tyres then i dunno, i dont have gt4

 

[Touge Master]

Not trying to diss anyone but here goes my theory. You can't make a direct comparison between your times and the RL times. Reason. You didn't run the RL times on Tsukba they were done by pros. So even if GT4 does have tires which exactly mimic RL driving that doesn't mean you can achieve a lap close to the lap records set in RL with the exact same cars. One example would be on Nurburgring. Stefan Roser can run that track in around 8 minutes with the RUF CTR Yellowbird. Do you think you can do 8 minutes if you had exactly the same car (mods and everything) with tires which have equal characteristics to the tires that he used? Then again i'm obviously leaving out the real world variables which can alter a lap time. But I could be wrong on my whole theory. If I am then tell me. (not trying to seem like a smartass just want to know how i'm wrong )

 

[LFRANCOF483]

Not trying to diss anyone but here goes my theory. You can't make a direct comparison between your times and the RL times. Reason. You didn't run the RL times on Tsukba they were done by pros. So even if GT4 does have tires which exactly mimic RL driving that doesn't mean you can achieve a lap close to the lap records set in RL with the exact same cars. One example would be on Nurburgring. Stefan Roser can run that track in around 8 minutes with the RUF CTR Yellowbird. Do you think you can do 8 minutes if you had exactly the same car (mods and everything) with tires which have equal characteristics to the tires that he used? Then again i'm obviously leaving out the real world variables which can alter a lap time. But I could be wrong on my whole theory. If I am then tell me. (not trying to seem like a smartass just want to know how i'm wrong )

exactly what i was saying......i don't really try to match RL times, i just compare different cars with the same tires and compare their lap times

but....i did manage an 8.22.821 with the M3 on the ring when it runs an 8.22 in reall life

 

[theRukus]

are u using a DS2 controlller to drive?

i think the DFP would be the most accurate way to measure/test lap times.

DS2 is TOOO TOOOOO TOOOOOOOOOOOO easy to use and get good lap times.

 

[chameleon2]

you can't compare real life with GT, in real life there's g-forces gear shifts and pedal control.
The reason people are lapping close to BM's track time is because they don't have the fear factor and that there's no pedal control in GT you have some kinda aid i suppose making you all incredible drivers. But since drivers from BM are pros with years of experience in cornering braking entering exiting etc etc, it's still hard for people to touch their times. On a long high speed track btw like nurburgring the difference is just too obvious, you would never be able to drive a perfect lap in real life as fast as a perfect lap in GT...
I don't like driving around like a maniac flying over the circuit. I drive careful and aware of the $$$$ under my but. (Thank God it's a game or I would've been broke)

 

[blargonator]

Tsukuba Circuit-N3s time attack

RSX-R 1.08.879 BM: 1.08.04

hmm very interesting.......these N3s...speechless.

argh! lol i just read through this post and i noticed you made the same mistake of calling the Acura RSX a type R when the Type S is the only thing availiable with the RSX. the Honda Integra on the other hand is still availiable in the Type R model. same basic car but very different from a performance standpoint. i just want GT4 to be released so im going kind of crazy <8- )

 

[nicefrog]

I still think the N2's are the closest tire for an average semi performance production tire, I'm not comparing any lap times though, just to my real car. So yeah as far as I'm concerned N2 is the tire of choice when I'm playing the game, last night I bought myself a nice green Falcon GT and I had myself a wild ride around the ring with N2 tires, it is so so nice to drive that car around that track, it feels just right, I got bored down the back straight so I did some fishies down the last half of the straight and could keep it fully under control the whole time, insane fun , the only bad thing is the stupid long 5th gear (thankfully this years model has a 6 speed). I also like the new Mustang, sounds nice, drives nice. So far I haven't liked to drive the Monaro and Commodore because they understeer too much. I think this game is going to help Ford Australia's sales! HSV are going to be sad that they didn't include some of their cars because the FPV's are so much better to drive than the Holdens in GT4

Another thing I noticed so far in GT4 is that I'm not interested in making my cars go faster like in GT3, I started to develop this interest in standard car driving in GT Concept and now because the physics are so good and the tracks have some proper bumps, I really enjoy driving the nicer more powerful cars in the game with the N2 tires, before I wasn't into this kind of driving. It a dangerous game though it's making me drive my real car too fast and worse for my brother who had a weak moment tonight and went back to his old habits of street racing. In my town is a white Skyline with a huge "Godzilla" sticker on the back window, he is always driving around with his with his loud waste gate and the whole town thinks it goes 300km/h (this guy started all the stories himself I rekcon! ) anyway tonight he tried to race my brothers Commdore on the highway and he was well taken care of , passed him at 130 and kept going until 180 just to make sure he never forgets tonight and the day a stock Commodore sucked his doors off. I wish I had of been in the Skyline it must have been a sweet sound from the exhaust as the Commdore went past on the red line. Nothing to do with N2 tires, but a good story

 

[Gabkicks]

yeah, thats why i used to love putting sim tires on my Mine's Skyline R34 in GT3. and Viper's with sims... it just makes racing more fun when traction is broken a bit easier. cus then you feel like its easy to push too hard. Like in real life.

 

[[SS]Ares]

PD let a racecar driver set a time on a track, and then gave him a dfp and GT4, to see what he would do in the game.

thats how they measured the 1% difference

 

[TruenoAE86]

I’m surprised no one tested sim tires. Are there sim tires in gt4? I think there are. Also getting a “realistic” time after 4 laps doesn’t really say much. Depending on your skill there could be anywhere from 1 to 10 seconds to be cut per lap. Also I remember seeing a G meter on some of the GT4 replays if that is still there check it out. It should never go over 1G unless you are in a race car. This should be a good indicator or which tires are most realistic. I think most cars with stock tires are between .8G and .9G.

 

[Jarus]

nicefrog - nice story but, you mentioned a skyline with a godzilla sticker on the back, is it actually a GT-R though, or an imitation GTS-t?

If it's a godzilla, I don't think there's a stock "commodore" that comes anywhere close to beating a GTR. The fastest commodore would be the SS right? Maybe against a GTST Skyline it would win from a rolling start, but definataly not a GTR. Or do you mean something like a HSV GTS but your just calling it a commodore?

Can you specify which cars exactly they are? Because the story is a bit hard to beleive if it was a "stock commodore"

 

[IAG]

I would say that Physics wise the N1s are the sims. those are as low as you can go for tires. With these tires you can easily power over, break early and gently. N2s......offer a little bit more grip but N3s.....too much. and yes i was thinking about the Gmeter with the N1s it only goes past 1g while in a spin out but not sure ill check that.

 

[nicefrog]

Jarus, true story, It wouldn't think it was a GTR, I'm not much into Skylines but I would say it's just a single turbo model, I'll see if I can spy a picture of it so you can tell me exactly what it is. There are a few 1990's Skylines in town and they all look the same to me, I can only tell this one for sure because of the big sticker on the window, but it's quite famous at least in rumours. The Commdore is a VS 304, 5 spped manual with FE2 totaly factory stock except some light 17 inch wheels, good tires and a better exhaust, it's not a super fast car in a straight line, quite slower in a straight line than say some of the "light" LS1 Commdores like a VX (but much better around corners), it was from a rolling start (80 to 180) but the Skyline was finished after 130.

I've seen the same kind of Skyline at the local drag races 3 months ago and it was slightly slower than another stock VS V8. 1/8 mile was 9.1 (Commdore) 9.3 (Skyline), so we allready knew in theory what was faster

 

[nicefrog]

Jarus, there was a final update to my story, but I'll have to tell you what happened before the Skyline race. It all started at the petrol station, where two other VS commdores were parked and starting looking at my brothers car, so this with his mental problems caused him to do a burnout leaving the station. Then up the road a bit the skyline pulled out of a corner and it was all on. Ok that was two nights ago. Late last night while my brother was driving home both the two other VS's (unkown engines) follwed him out onto the highway and then went past him at quite some high speed as he was sitting on 100, so he chased them down, he told me had had heaps of trouble catching them and was doing over 200 when he finally closed in on them, then had to really work hard to get his car stoped where the two lanes merge before he wiped all three cars out, then he passed them both and sat on 160 untill he got out of sight of them then came home. Now he's refusing to drive his car anymore because he was shaking when he came home and says it was pretty scary driving at 200 at midnight, and how the road was really bumpy and that he could hardly take the slight bends that are in the highway going that fast. So he told me he has a mental problem with people racing him and doesn't trust himself to drive for the moment and also doesn't want to be in town incase anyone saw what happend last night. Now he's just playing world of warcraft for a few days to recover

http://jason.holo-tech.com/cars/vs.jpg

 

[SaintKamus]

Man, its an racing game shut up and tune your car as high as yo can, where the hell you think all these options are for? nobody cares wich is the most rl, we want the best!

ok, maybe you don't care about realisim in a sim, but some people (like me) wouldn't have it any other way, hell, if i wanted arcady crap i'd go play burnout or NFSU2.
keep your crap suggestions to yourself.

 

[SaintKamus]

best timefor the M3 in best motoring is 1.06.xxx

but you shouldn't really take best motoring's time too seriously...i mean i love the show, i have most of the DVD's that are out....but BMI is known to be very biased towards their domestic cars.........i too have gotten the M3 ito the 1.04 second range, 1.04.121 to be exact.....and i consistently have Japan's super domestics to be at the same time or slower......so why is it that best Motoring has the M3 trailing far behind the likes of the Skyline, NSX, Evo, etc.....

in BMI, the M3 lost to the 350Z and only beat the 350Z in the best lap time by a couple of tenths of a second.....if PD claims these lap times and car handling to be to within 1% of ther real life counterparts, then BMI is doing something....i consistenly get 2 second or more faster lap times then the 350Z with the M3.....and the M3 is on par with the super domestics mentioned above.......

also JAG, best motoring tests their cars no matter what condition.....they could have tested their cars in colder weather, hotter weather.....GT4 cannot simply deal with all of those conditions that factor into lap times....also, i usually test in N3 tires.......doesn't really matter what kind of tires you use because even PD said that their lap times are a little off so you're hardly ever gonna get the real life lap times, just use the to compare cars.....just as long as all the cars you are comparing have the same tires.....and yes, the M3 consistently beats the 350Z and is on par with the super domestics contradictory to Best Motoring.....

sorry, wasn't nagging at any of you.......just thought (and heard around) that BMI is really biased and it pissed me off to somewhat know that the M3 could have done better

Don't even get me started on the M3 CSL and the '03 NSX-R

biased? i don't think so.. you have to consider the following, the M3 is very heavy, and on a small circuit such as tskuba lighter cars can have the advantage. on a fast track things would be different of course, because all of those JDM's are limited to 280 HP, so on a track with longer straights and faster corners the M3 would probably trounce some of it's competition.

 

[nicefrog]

Another thing I've noticed with the tires is that the 400 meter times are very acurate with the tires that are supplied with the car, S2 or S3 etc. But the cornering speeds are wrong with those tires. I don't understand why they just didn't change the wheelspin physics so that you could do a realistic quarter mile time with N2's? Well I guess if you don't ever get the car out of second gear then it's no problem for most cars, but something to think about for GT5

 

[Gilly]

I think alot of people are missing the point of the thread, it was about a comparison of what tyres to use to be comparable to a real life car racing on the same circuit because of PD's claims to how accurate the physics of the game are, which as someone already pointed out was roughly 1%.

The GT series has always been about offering a real driving simulation but one that can accomodate a certain range of players, i.e not too simulation biased so people can't even complete a lap without falling off the circuit but also not too arcadey to the point of drifting around corners at 200 mph, it's the balance of this that makes GT what it is today and with the core of the game about driving, us the players are looking for these comparisons too add to the realism of the game and it's also a selling point for the game too.

I don't think people have a rite to criticize other players because they are interested in the game for different reasons than themself and alot of people are intested in this topic so don't dismiss it. I would rather use a tire that gets as close to the handling characteristics of the real car than to stick a set uber slicks on that would not be close to a set of racing slicks placed on a rl road car.

Comparing the difference betwen 1 car and another from the Best Motoring dvd's isn't going to give you a right or wrong answer as to what car is faster or not. There are so many variables to take into account but alot of the time after 4-5 laps there is never a huge time difference from 1st or 4th with maybe a couple of other cars laging behind a bit more, like the older models they throw into the mix. The racing is always pretty hard and that will yield slower times than running the cars on an empty track it's obvious.

At the end of the day PD have again maxed it out where GT4 is concerned and the next step will not be until PS3 and atleast 2-3 years in the future so let's just enjoy the great game instead of arguing the toss

 

[8400RPM]

Trueno- When a magazine reports a given car's lateral g-force, they are talking about CONTINUOUS g's, not peak g's which can be much higher. The g-force meter in GT4 measures the peak g-force at that given moment, so it can go over 1g for a street car on street tires. And there are some street cars such as Vipers that can handle over 1 g continuous as well. FYI.

 

[blargonator]

biased? i don't think so.. you have to consider the following, the M3 is very heavy, and on a small circuit such as tskuba lighter cars can have the advantage. on a fast track things would be different of course, because all of those JDM's are limited to 280 HP, so on a track with longer straights and faster corners the M3 would probably trounce some of it's competition.

BMI is VERY biased......they had a nsx beat a 911 which doubt happens very often. anyways since when did they actually start following the gentlemens agreement which is now gone. but even then companies were still making higher HP cars. i thought they were limited to 276 anyways. the M3 would most definetly beat the 350Z though. the 350Z is a heavy car but both are heavy. the M3 is just better in general though.

 

[LFRANCOF483]

biased? i don't think so.. you have to consider the following, the M3 is very heavy, and on a small circuit such as tskuba lighter cars can have the advantage. on a fast track things would be different of course, because all of those JDM's are limited to 280 HP, so on a track with longer straights and faster corners the M3 would probably trounce some of it's competition.

exactly what blargonator said, they also had an NSX-R beating a Gallardo, Murcielago, 911 Turbo, 360 Modena, and M3 CSL on a VERY straight track (Twin Ring Motegi East Course)...yet, Top Gear has the M3 CSL trouncing the 911 Turbo, 360 Modena, and the NSX-R on their more twisty track

plus, dont forget that BMI is always putting Nismo's oil cooler on the 350Z, or some other parts that would help from breaking down under hard racing.....why can't they just leave it in stock form? will it overheat (probably)

.....everybody knows Japan broke that "280 hp gentlemen's agreement" all the time.....everybody knows the Skyline really has 350hp, and the Sti, Evo has somewhere in the 300s.......the M3 can hold its own against Japan's domestics in the twisties and especially the straights....


oh, i just did some new runs with the M3 and 350Z right before this...i think im getting better........

with the same N3 tires i used earlier, with the 350Z Version ST (basically the Track package), i got a time of 1.04.801

and with the M3, 1.03.691......

 

[TruenoAE86]

Trueno- When a magazine reports a given car's lateral g-force, they are talking about CONTINUOUS g's, not peak g's which can be much higher. The g-force meter in GT4 measures the peak g-force at that given moment, so it can go over 1g for a street car on street tires. And there are some street cars such as Vipers that can handle over 1 g continuous as well. FYI.

Ah yes, very true. I remember seeing a test of a skyline on 5th gear or top gear or what ever it was; it had a built in G meter and it would go over 1g, but like you said it would "peak". So "never" was too strong a word in my original post. I was aware however; that some street cars can handle over 1 g continuous, but I did not know that a viper was one of them. I read somewhere The T-rex, a 3 wheeled "car/go-cart" for the street, can supposedly do 1.9 continues g's. Although I don’t know the validity of the source.

 

[8400RPM]

It might have been a Viper GTS-R.

 

[GT Freak!]

i agree that Best Motoring is biased. I also saw the video of the NSX-R vs Muchielago, gallardo, M3 CSL etc. No way could the NSX-R win. Also even more ridiculouse, i have just seena video of a Elise 190bhp, trouncing a M3 SMG II and staying with it down the straights, bear in mind the M3 has 340bhp! 👎

I am glad that it is possible to get relativly realisitic times in GT4, as for tuning the car as high as possible as suggested by someone ealier! I have grown out of that idea long ago, i now got for realism and fun!!

I have got some lap times for the Le Man track, real life lap times as i dont have GT4, could someone see how the GT4 counterpart cars are to these times. I will also include the year, these are qualifying times!

Bentley Speed-8 2003 3:32:080
Audi R8 2003 3:35:248
Mercedes CLK GTR 1998 3:35:544
GT-One 1998 3:35:552
BMW V12 1998 3:38:829
Nissan R390 1998 3:40:649
Sauber C9 1989 3:14:XX (no chicane)

 

[Daddybird]

I would think a very high performance car like a Zonda or something like that would come from the factory with N3 : ), but Commdores, Monaros anything in the 300-400 hp range that is based on a family car then N2. Original muscle cars tires from the 70's are worse than N1 so N1 is as close as you will get on those cars

Edit, to sum it up it's like this, Cheap little 4 cylinder cars come from the factory with N1, Performance sedans come with N2 and high end sports cars (Ferrari type things) come with N3, in the shops the cheapy tires for family cars are N1, add between 50 to 100% to the price and you are in N2 territory, above that price are N3

Thats about right what you're saying.

I'm testing my cars too with the N tires, and I can get almost the same times with N1 tires as in real life.

 

[Jedi2016]

i agree that Best Motoring is biased. I also saw the video of the NSX-R vs Muchielago, gallardo, M3 CSL etc. No way could the NSX-R win. Also even more ridiculouse, i have just seena video of a Elise 190bhp, trouncing a M3 SMG II and staying with it down the straights, bear in mind the M3 has 340bhp! 👎

I've seen that vid of the NSX/Lambo/etc, and the NSX does not win, so not sure what you're talking about there. Sure, it was leading for a bit, but that was due more to Gan-San's aggressive driving than the car's speed.

As for the Elise v M3.. Sure, the M3 has more power, but it also has a lot more weight, and it can't touch the Elise in the corners. I haven't seen that particular vid, but I know that the Elise "line" of Lotus cars are a lot quicker than their power would lead you to believe.

 

[Nemo2]

wow, thats pretty intense. I would rather just play and have fun than try and follow real life that closely.

 

[SaintKamus]

I've seen that vid of the NSX/Lambo/etc, and the NSX does not win, so not sure what you're talking about there. Sure, it was leading for a bit, but that was due more to Gan-San's aggressive driving than the car's speed.

As for the Elise v M3.. Sure, the M3 has more power, but it also has a lot more weight, and it can't touch the Elise in the corners. I haven't seen that particular vid, but I know that the Elise "line" of Lotus cars are a lot quicker than their power would lead you to believe.

the M3 is too heavy, it's all about power weight ratio, in a low speed circuit the elise 111R has a defentive advantage over the M3 and many other cars, on a high speed one the story might be different.

but anyway, i'm also very intrested in real life performance of the cars compared to GT4, Flinx is conducting some comparos. (i would help him do the comparassions, but i'm just not a good enough driver.)

all you need to know for now is.. there are some huge inconsistencies, some cars are WAAAY too fast compared to their real life counterparts even on N1 tyres, others are spot on with N1 tyres, and others seem to need N2 tyres to get results comparable to the real life cars (such as the NSX-R and apparently the AWD cars, just to name a few.)
the M3 seems too fast compared to the real one, even with N1 tyres, it's about 2 seconds faster than the real one... this is a HUGE difference, the Corvette is about as fast as the NSX-R with N2 tyres (N2 tyres on the vette also) on nurburgring... considering this is the C5 this is pretty much impossible, i'll have to run the vette on N1, i think that it will get results will be more realistic with those.
but anyway, there are tons of inconsitencies, as soon as i get more results from Flinx i'll start a new thread on this, i think my nurburgring times are actually pretty good, considering i have about 500-700 laps on it (maybe a lot more.. not really counting.) but on any other track i'm not consistent enough, and even then, Flinx will still be about 3-5 seconds faster than me on nurburgring on avarage. (using the TGS demo as a reference)

So, after the data gets posted you'll see which tyre compound is closest to RL on which car. (because unfortunaley, like i said, the cars seem to vary on performance, some are closer to RL, while others aren't even close.)