Nations cup dragons tail punt

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Matrix243123, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. Matrix243123

    Matrix243123

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    I know this issue has been beat to death but just my 3rd nations cup race in, CS class, played the cleanest race possible with the most patience ever. Following 3rd place guy, got in tight quite a few times, even waited for him after he wiped out, found the corner that was the best overtake, but didn't expect him to come over the last second. Clipped him a bit even though I was the farthest to the inside which gave him the advantage after the corner, both slid sideways and slammed the wall. I still got ahead and pulled away. On the last long corner, about half way in I get nailed. Some how he took the corner and caught me deep into the corner. 3rd to 6th.

    21:25


    I know I should just get used to it because its the norm. Too bad there isn't a way of public shaming.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2020
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  2. Nuschel01

    Nuschel01

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    Karma

    also: use your radar
     
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  3. Matrix243123

    Matrix243123

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    It was you?
     
  4. Nuschel01

    Nuschel01

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    certainly not
     
  5. The359

    The359

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    Honestly, whether or not he moved in front of you coming down the hill, you were never going to make that corner. Braked way too late, and I have no clue why you're down shifting so quickly, that's not going to slow the car properly. You even let off the brake after the contact, meaning you were always going to straight line the corner and take him out. He didn't slide because of the initial contact, he was taken out as you missed the corner entirely. You're lucky you didn't take out 2nd place as well.

    He took it as an intentional punt and gave it back to you.
     
  6. Matrix243123

    Matrix243123

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    Agreed, I ran out of time when he kept moving in front so I was commited and had to make a move and atleast get passed, even though I would slam into the wall. The line was on the far left, and the idea of the game is to not collide side by side during passes which I see whats happening with anyone trying to pass. Thats how I assume how you play. The driving line would have him braking earlier to take the turn so would've never met at the same time. Would have drove right by but he would rather create conflict. And 2nd place was up passed the turn, you're referring to the 19th place car.

    Try again.
     
  7. The359

    The359

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    Why in the world did you have to get past? The corner was not yours, you did not deserve that pass. You clearly let off the brake solely for the purpose of passing, and in doing so caused an accident. You clearly should work on braking ability and avoiding slamming into walls before you even attempt to start lecturing about how to take a proper line. Just an FYI.

    I'm also S/S ranked, so...you might want to rethink this strategy.

    You also pitted for more fuel on the last lap of the race, despite having more than enough fuel to finish the race. What even in this video? :confused:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2020
  8. Canucks_9419

    Canucks_9419

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    That pass definitely wasn't as 'on' as you think it was. Could have just let him defend away and done the cut back on corner exit. Experience brings better racecraft if one is committed though so don't get discouraged and carry on to the next one!
     
  9. Matrix243123

    Matrix243123

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    I disagree. If you watch the laps where I'm trailing him that's a risk that's worth taking, and the 11 laps previous showed no other risky maneuvers. And if you never risk anything ever, you'll never learn and advance. That still doesn't warrant a deliberate crash on a corner with 2 laps left. Looks like alot of questionable people with ethics problems in here.

    Also I've indicated I'm in no way a pro, hence the 3rd cup race.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2020
  10. The359

    The359

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    These two statements contradict each other. You took a shot at a pass and for some reason decided the "risk" was worthy of braking well beyond what you, or the car, was capable of. You were going to completely miss the apex even if you had stayed on the brake pedal as you should have done. As stated before, you were never going to make that corner. An attempt to pass in that spot may generally be at low risk, but you did not handle it appropriately, first by braking way too late, then compounding it by letting off the brake after the initial braking, and then piling into the wall and collecting him with you. His late block (and the ones against other players on laps before) was certainly wrong, but I don't see anything you did here correctly. Your move and desperate attempt to overtake was just as deliberate as his move. Two wrongs do not make a right.

    You claim this corner was a low risk passing opportunity, yet you shorted the corner on Lap 4, were decent on Lap 5, way short on Lap 6, overshot the corner on Lap 7, came up way short on Lap 8, slid the back end out on Lap 9, came up super short on Lap 10, and then way overshot on Lap 11. This would be low risk for someone consistent, but to try and claim that a pass there would be easy is reaching, because your braking and line on that corner is a gamble at best.

    There is not a single person so far who agrees with your perspective. Perhaps the problem is with your perspective, and not a matter of "ethics" in others. No one is defending his punting of you later on, but we agree that your maneuver was ill advised.

    Further, your immediate shifting to 1st or 2nd gear simply makes the rear of your car unstable into the braking zone, making your cornering ability completely inconsistent and sliding the back end out for no reason. This is not how you should be braking into a corner, you should not be pinging off the fuel cutoff on the rev limiter through the braking zone. This really needs some serious work.

    You say you're not a pro, and that risk is required to learn. So, what have you learned from this, other than accusing people of ethical issues?
     
  11. Matrix243123

    Matrix243123

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  12. The359

    The359

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    It doesn't matter what corner it is on whatever circuit. Your attempt to pass was poorly done. You braked too late, then, for yet to be explained reasons, let off the brake. Yet somehow you thought that "making the pass" was more important than "making the corner". How can you make a pass if you aren't going to make a corner? *You* overshot the corner on Lap 11, not him. Both of you were inconsistent and neither of you could hold a proper line. Blaming previous laps and other people is rubbish if you yourself made the mistake we are discussing. Just because a corner is "the best corner to make a pass on" does not mean a pass is always worth it at that particular time.

    Downshifting immediately into 1st or 2nd gear is literally what is causing the car to go loose, not trailbraking or setting up for the corner or not being in a straight line. Your solution is the literal cause of the problem. You were also doing this on every corner in this video. You should have the corner set up before you've started to apply the brakes, not mid-corner. You could literally leave the car in 5th gear and take the corner much faster and smoother. Downshifting the way you are is what makes the car much more unstable when it is not in a straight line.

    And no, you've learned the absolutely wrong thing. You're more concerned with making the pass than with making the corner. Passing is absolutely useless if you can't even make the corner in the first place. If your reaction to someone defending against you is to let off the brake and attempt to complete the pass no matter what, compounding your already poor braking maneuver, then this is a recipe for disaster. "More speed" would just mean you would have overshot the corner and hit the wall even harder.
     
  13. Matrix243123

    Matrix243123

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    You ignored everything I said and not making any sense.
     
  14. Nuschel01

    Nuschel01

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    It‘s more like you ignoring everything he said and not making any sense.

    Your driving in this situation was poor and usually the people I know that aren‘t experinced tend to brake way too early for corners but they do not brake, then let off to make a pass and slam into the wall... The wall is not a helping tool to make you pass others by slamming into it and hoping to bounce back on track without being spun.
    It would‘ve been 10 times smarter to just wait for the guy to drive himself off or mess up a corner completely and then just drive past without any issue.

    And please fix your attitude
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  15. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

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    I would have nailed you there too after pulling a bonehead move like that on the last lap and ruining my race.
     
  16. watto79

    watto79

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    I'm confused about what you're saying about your intentions at the corner where you both hit the wall.

    You say its a low risk corner because there's a wall rather than gravel. So was your aim always to just get past the other car and then bounce off the wall? It sounds like that was your idea but I'm not sure, partly because that's not a very sensible plan. Can you clarify exactly how you planned to overtake the car and get around the corner safely?

    What followed looks like a straight up revenge punt. I don't condone that but if you take someone out and don't give them the place back you kinda have to expect it.

    Whenever I have an incident with someone the first thing I do is analyse my own driving to see if there was anything I could have done differently. I think you'd do well to take that approach here.
     
  17. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    I wouldn't say it's as clear cut as people are saying here. The lead guy defended twice with the 2nd attempt at the edge of the braking zone and if they hadn't done that and committed to their original line, who knows how the OP would take the corner.

    Tough to condemn what happened in the corner when everything went tits up before they got there.
     
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  18. watto79

    watto79

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    I don't completely disagree and the other driver drove poorly for sure, but what the OP describes and what's in the video seem at odds with each other. Another driver swerves in front of me and I'm on the brakes and likely taking the corner slower than normal. OP overshoots the corner and hit the wall hard. They weren't even close to making the corner.

    It was bad driving all round to be honest.
     
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  19. Matrix243123

    Matrix243123

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    You didn't read my comments. I mentioned I went on the inside, obviously the difficult line since the driving line is on the outer edge. The intention was to get pass then hit the braking zone correctly, make the corner although at a real slow speed, and hope the other guy that was suppose to be in the driving line like all his other laps, makes a mistake like previously, especially since the adder pressure. But he didn't even want to chance that and just blocked entirely. Typically it would just swing back and forth meaning I get to the corner first but go wide, he takes the driving line and makes the apex and shoots passed. And that should happen every attempt and eventually someone makes a mistake and we go on our way.

    And that's why we have people unloading their sim rigs. Thanks.

    I mentioned I went on the inside, obviously the difficult line since the driving line is on the outer edge. The intention was to get pass then hit the braking zone correctly, make the corner although at a real slow speed, and hope the other guy that was suppose to be in the driving line like all his other laps, makes a mistake like previously, especially since the adder pressure. But he didn't even want to chance that and just blocked entirely. Typically it would just swing back and forth meaning I get to the corner first but go wide, he takes the driving line and makes the apex and shoots passed. And that should happen every attempt and eventually someone makes a mistake and we go on our way.

    That happened only at that one corner. 13 laps, 10+corner, etc

    The replay I gave probably isn't a very good example since there are way harsher punts going on without any reason. But at least they're getting fewer and fewer as I move up the class. So far it's still a total cluster of penalties on first corner bottleneck, which is in the replay. I think I was the only one to get out without a single penalty.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2020
  20. daan

    daan Moderator

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    He made it abundantly clear that he was going to defend the inside. The inside move was never on and you hit him from behind.

    This is 100% your fault.
     
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  21. breeminator

    breeminator

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    Bad driving from both drivers. First incident, the car ahead does a late block, the car behind inexplicably lifts off the brakes, sending himself off the track. The car that was ahead is fairly clueless about how to deal with this. He could have just stayed on the outside, waited for you to smash into the wall, then turned in, and been off down the track well ahead of you, but for some reason he doesn't do that, and joins you in binning it. Then the 2nd incident, the car that was originally ahead either exhibits more incompetence, or executes a well judged punt, it's hard to know which, given the incompetence on show in the first incident. Both drivers ~8k DR, fairly normal racing at that level. I don't mean that in an elitist sense, just that if they were better at controlling the car around the track, they'd be faster and have a higher DR, so those sorts of incidents are common at that level.
     
  22. Matrix243123

    Matrix243123

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    You can see in replay it was a tap and he was still fine, and just went in too deep for braking and thats on him.
     
  23. daan

    daan Moderator

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    What replay?
     
  24. Matrix243123

    Matrix243123

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    I mean the video shown, not replay.

    So you're saying as a amateur driver, you still avoid avoid all situations that could result in conflict? How do you learn anything?

    I see so much mass carnage that I've completely avoided and gone full races without penalty, yet still should have not tempted a pass.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2020
  25. The359

    The359

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    You can repeat your line about inside versus outside line all you want, but it honestly has zero bearing on the incident. You are missing the entire point of you need to be able to successfully make a corner before you can make a pass. Setting up for a corner is the 1st step, not the 2nd. You missing the corner completely is on you.

    Repeating your stance over and over, while many more experienced and better drivers tell you that it is wrong, is just stubborness and not a sign of wanting to learn and improve.

    You have offered zero explanation for why you got off the brakes.

    And I absolutely do not attempt a pass if I don't think it is achievable, but I also know how to hit my braking points.
     
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  26. watto79

    watto79

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    What about your braking after the tap? What was going on there?

    You learn by, as I said, looking at your own driving in any given incident. Have you done that like I suggested? If you do that's how you learn and become a better, faster driver for it. If you're convinced you did absolutely everything right and you've nothing to learn from the incident then I suppose that's the end of it.
     
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  27. Groundfish

    Groundfish Premium

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    The first step is finding good information such as the book Ultimate Speed Secrets authored by Canadian Ross Bentley.
    Etiquette is in there
    Secrets of better laptimes
    Keys to reducing tire wear

    The first step isn’t just playing a game and getting bent out shape not knowing what’s going on or what you’re supposed to be doing

    That book has built my whole career in this game which has been pretty good like top one percent of NA server
    It’s my first ever racing game since the Ridge Racer on PS1.
    I owe my success to that Canadian
     
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  28. daan

    daan Moderator

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    The video shown does not show any of those things.

    And please stop making multiple posts in a row that we have to merge. Use the edit button, and the +quote feature.
     
  29. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    What did I just even watch?

    The video at the time index it's set to start at shows an incredibly weird braking technique where you appear to slam it into the lowest possible gear and just leave the engine revs to catch up with road speed, and then you pit on the last lap with more than a lap of fuel remaining and turn the fuel map even further down to 4.

    Edit: Apparently it's a lap earlier. I have further questions, mainly, wtf is this?

    full-brakes-then-full-gas-001.jpg

    full-brakes-then-full-gas-002.jpg
    Fully on the brakes pretty much where you should be braking, then completely off the brakes and back on full power after you've driven into the back of him?

    Also your line through the Chicane of Death is mince. Stay fully right and make the left turn-in at least 10m later than you are - use the end of the kerb to the right as your guide.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  30. daan

    daan Moderator

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    Yeah, you have to go a minute earlier for some reason.