Nations cup dragons tail punt

The359
You can repeat your line about inside versus outside line all you want, but it honestly has zero bearing on the incident. You are missing the entire point of you need to be able to successfully make a corner before you can make a pass. Setting up for a corner is the 1st step, not the 2nd. You missing the corner completely is on you.

I said that already. Refer to previous post.

Repeating your stance over and over, while many more experienced and better drivers tell you that it is wrong, is just stubborness and not a sign of wanting to learn and improve.

Never said I was more experience. Said over and over that I just started and still amateur level.

You have offered zero explanation for why you got off the brakes.

Many many explanations I have given that you refused to read.

And I absolutely do not attempt a pass if I don't think it is achievable, but I also know how to hit my braking points.

Even the greatest race car drivers in the world make mistakes. Sometimes its a fine line, and even mistakes can work out. I stand by my choice.
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watto79
What about your braking after the tap? What was going on there?

I've explained that already which nobody seems to be reading. I assume you mean not braking after the tap. I commited to at least getting passed and seeing what happens but obviously the speed coming in was way too much. But that means the other car should've capatized on it but also went in too deep. The tap was recoverable on his side since he's still on the driving line and can trail brake.

You learn by, as I said, looking at your own driving in any given incident. Have you done that like I suggested? If you do that's how you learn and become a better, faster driver for it. If you're convinced you did absolutely everything right and you've nothing to learn from the incident then I suppose that's the end of it.
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I agree. I save my replays and review. This incident just happened. And I indicated already in hindsight, 4th would be fine end and waited it out. What I did with that tap was super minor compared to spite punting.
 
Matrix243123
I agree. I save my replays and review. This incident just happened. And I indicated already in hindsight, 4th would be fine end and waited it out. What I did with that tap was super minor compared to spite punting.
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To re-iterate.

daan
And please stop making multiple posts in a row that we have to merge. Use the edit button, and the +quote feature.
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Famine
What did I just even watch?

The video at the time index it's set to start at shows an incredibly weird braking technique where you appear to slam it into the lowest possible gear and just leave the engine revs to catch up with road speed, and then you pit on the last lap with more than a lap of fuel remaining and turn the fuel map even further down to 4.

Edit: Apparently it's a lap earlier. I have further questions, mainly, wtf is this?

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Fully on the brakes pretty much where you should be braking, then completely off the brakes and back on full power after you've driven into the back of him?

Also your line through the Chicane of Death is mince. Stay fully right and make the left turn-in at least 10m later than you are - use the end of the kerb to the right as your guide.
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I explained that already. That was a tap, you can see him pull to the left and start braking, that was not a punt, and not deliberate like he did to me. I committed to at least getting passed him even though my speed + braking distance was completely off, but I decided to see how it would play out because this isn't real life and I've seen way more insane techniques then what I tried which was only the 1 time.

Thanks for the tip, That is one of the most difficult chicanes that makes it very difficult to be consistent when the top priority is not clipping the edge and totally destroying the lap time.
 
Matrix243123
I committed to at least getting passed him even though my speed + braking distance was completely off, but I decided to see how it would play out because this isn't real life and I've seen way more insane techniques then what I tried which was only the 1 time.
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If that's not an admission of intent, I don't know what is.

You can't even brake properly, your insane maneuver was a predictable failure. There is not a single element of this where you come out as "correct". Your explanations do not match with what we can clearly see with the replay.
 
Matrix243123
Makes it hard when I'm trying to get my answers out and there are 5-10 replies. I'll try to.
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That's literally why the Multiquote feature exists and what it's for.

When you went full gas after hitting the Supra, you were in the braking zone. You hit the brakes at the right point (as did the Supra), then you hit the Supra. Then you inexplicably went full power.

That massive overspeed is what made you miss the corner and hit the outside wall. The Supra also crashed because you hit him.
 
Matrix243123
Moves to the left, I move to the right, move back to the right, tap, moves to the left, still facing forward.
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Famine
Then you inexplicably went full power.

That massive overspeed is what made you miss the corner and hit the outside wall.
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And your "tap" was you hitting the back of a car on maximum brakes while you were still WOT.
 
Famine
And your "tap" was you hitting the back of a car on maximum brakes while you were still WOT.
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I explained that already. In that time frame in split second reaction I committed to getting around him. Are you saying it was deliberate? You can clearly see both were on throttle and wasn't till last second that you see the brake lights on the supra.
 
Matrix243123
I explained that already. In that time frame in split second reaction I committed to getting around him. Are you saying it was deliberate? You can clearly see both were on throttle and wasn't till last second that you see the brake lights on the supra.
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No, I'm saying that you hit him. And that you then, inexplicably, went full throttle when you should have still been braking.
 
Famine
No, I'm saying that you hit him. And that you then, inexplicably, went full throttle when you should have still been braking.
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Yep, explained that. Was obviously not correct for the corner but battling the same car for 90% of the race I was committing to get at least passed. It was arcade racing but only done the 1 time for the whole race.

I'm guessing this thread is being made into me being an example of, in cadence of a large volume of other threads made that are similar topic of "who is at fault". Which is fine.
 
You literally can't even listen to a moderator telling you twice to stop repeated posting. I think you're here solely to argue and "explain."

Your "need to get past him" is exactly why you are in the wrong. Everyone sees it, yet you think repeated explanation is going to suddenly change things. You do not pass people by getting back on the throttle in the middle of a brake zone unless your intent is to cause an accident. Period.
 
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Famine
If you say so. It seems insane and it was what caused you to hit the wall. Did you also "explain" the bizarre pit stop?
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Haha, ya that was totally wrong. I read 0.4 laps left and it was 1.4 on last lap. Also screwed up grid start which was my first time. Rolled forward but didn't give me a penalty luckily. Also realizing in some races you start with hard tires and mediums are an option when pitting so that can change strategies.

Very new to me yet, like I said, but my pace has been fairly good.
 
Matrix243123
I mean the video shown, not replay.

So you're saying as a amateur driver, you still avoid avoid all situations that could result in conflict? How do you learn anything?

I see so much mass carnage that I've completely avoided and gone full races without penalty, yet still should have not tempted a pass.
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You’ve gone entire races without a single penalty before? Please, tell us more.


Matrix243123
Moves to the left, I move to the right, moves back to the right, tap, moves to the left, still facing forward.

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He didn’t move at all until you tried to take the inside lane that he was clearly already covering, you had absolutely no business trying to go inside there at all.


Matrix243123
Yep, explained that. Was obviously not correct for the corner but battling the same car for 90% of the race I was committing to get at least passed. It was arcade racing but only done the 1 time for the whole race.

I'm guessing this thread is being made into me being an example of, in cadence of a large volume of other threads made that are similar topic of "who is at fault". Which is fine.
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It doesn’t matter how committed you are to “getting past” someone, if you wanna pass someone, you do it right, without contact, if you can’t do that then stay where you are and wait for an opportunity when you can. Just because you “want” to get past someone doesn’t mean you can just barge your way thru whenever you feel like it.
 
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Pigems
You’ve gone entire races without a single penalty before? Please, tell us more.

Are you kidding? Without the penalty system that being dished out lately even with the update? Where am I? There's hundreds of threads on how poor the system is where you can be 100% not at fault and still get a penalty.


He didn’t move at all until you tried to take the inside lane that he was clearly already covering, you had absolutely no business trying to go inside there at all.

The clip I posted clearly shows him moving left and I move right and he moved back to the right.


It doesn’t matter how committed you are to “getting past” someone, if you wanna pass someone, you do it right, without contact, if you can’t do that then stay where you are and wait for an opportunity when you can. Just because you “want” to get past someone doesn’t mean you can just barge your way thru whenever you feel like it.
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The contact was split second, and there's going to be cases where your racing in tight situations especially on tight tracks. This area had ample space and I was confident there was room for both even with a touch there's space for correction.
 
Matrix243123
The contact was split second, and there's going to be cases where your racing in tight situations especially on tight tracks. This area had ample space and I was confident there was room for both even with a touch there's space for correction.
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What part don’t you get man? He was covering the inside, he was never gonna let you go inside there, and it was very poor driving for you to attempt it. The smart move there is take the outside line and go for a late apex to try and make a move on the exit. That was basically the ONLY option open to you at that time.
 
Matrix243123
Hahaha, ok then guys.
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You've had feedback from multiple A+ DR drivers in this thread whose driving would have been massively better than yours if they'd been in the same situation. The best thing you can do is to try to learn from their feedback. You won't impress anyone by laughing off their feedback because many of the posters are familiar with who the other posters are, and have raced against them.
 
To be honest, what you got in return was totally unjustified IMO. I've been in this situation several times before heading into the heavy braking zone before the chicane of death. From what I can see, the Toyota's trajectory was going towards the left of the track, and it looked like a gap would open for an overtake. For some stupid reason, the Toyota brakes whilst moving over and that's not something you expected to happen. You jumped on the throttle again almost as a reflex action, you probably didn't intend to do it (whereas everyone else thinks you did). The Toyota didn't choose a line and hence blocked any kind of attack, which I think is unfair. In the heat of battle, it's sometimes difficult for people to make the right decisions at the right time. You obviously thought that the Toyota would move across, and I would've thought the exact same thing until he hit the brakes. Racing incident.
 
CLowndes888
To be honest, what you got in return was totally unjustified IMO.
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Yep, straight up revenge punt.

Yet you can see what went through the Supra's mind - the guy who just battered him in the braking zone (and it may have been worse for him, because latency) also ploughed straight through the corner thanks to that bizarre decision to go back on full power, so it looks for all the world like a pure, deliberate, take him out smash.
 
Okay, nah. First, brake before downshifting. Second, in the heat of that battle, look like you may have passed the Supra on the run out of the COD or with a set up at the final turn and down the front straight.

Supra should have stayed right.
With the run you had, staying hard left would have negated the Supra moving left. There was plenty of room on that side of the track.

About the fuel thing, a podium finish was off the cards anyway. Running in 4th, a cooler head would have been to hold station. This way you don't lose as much time if you were to battle and try a pass.

Just gotta take that revenge punt and move on.
 
Famine
Yep, straight up revenge punt.

Yet you can see what went through the Supra's mind - the guy who just battered him in the braking zone (and it may have been worse for him, because latency) also ploughed straight through the corner thanks to that bizarre decision to go back on full power, so it looks for all the world like a pure, deliberate, take him out smash.
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Battered? Come on. The audio at the braking point shows I let off at the tap then throttled once cleared. The rest of the video shows how much I avoided contact with anyone the whole race!
 
Matrix243123
Battered? Come on.
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There's several things you're just not taking into account.

Firstly, he also hit the outside wall. You can't see that because you're not running your radar (also, use your radar), but when you flick back to the rear view, he is emerging from the same place you were. That's a pretty big clue that you hit him a lot harder than you think you did.

The reason for that is right there in the post you quoted:
Famine
(and it may have been worse for him, because latency)
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You're both on four-bar connections, which suggests that there is some latency at play, and latency is a bitch when it comes to car-to-car contact.

Simply put, everyone on your screen is where your console is guessing that they are almost all the time. It's a bit different in the FIA events, due to the fixed servers, but everything on your screen apart from you is probably not actually where it looks like it is. In essence, your console receives car position data and then has to guess for several frames until it receives new car position data. If the latency is stable or relatively small (under 50ms or so), it's fine, but if it's getting into the 100ms range and jittery, there's a lot of guesswork.

When you hit him, you were doing 161mph. At 161mph with a generous 80ms ping, the car may be almost six metres away from where your screen shows it - that's a full car length. Your screen shows he hit the brakes while you were more or less touching, but he may have been a full car length away and hit by you at 161mph while he'd been on the brakes for nearly a full tenth of a second already

Your screen also shows you losing 8mph in 0.3s between impact and any switch from power to braking - roughly 1.2G of deceleration, or about the same as stamping fully on the brakes - and under the principle of conservation of momentum (and GTS's inelastic collisions), you'd have accelerated him by broadly the same amount. That would mean he had effectively zero braking for a couple of tenths of a second, while in a maximum braking zone.

He also speared left after impact, which might have been a contributing factor to where he ended up - we won't know because you didn't have radar on. But we're talking about a significant hit here, not a "tap".

I suspect if that player turns up here on GTP and shares a replay from his point of view of that crash, we'll see a big old hit (if you show your replay from his point of view, it'll still be subject to the very same latency). As you accelerated afterwards for no reason and slammed into the outside wall, it will look like you attempted a full speed ram on him - because your car didn't slow down either.


And that's why you got revenge punted.
 
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