Neutral please! and the ability to disengage it :S

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Nightmage82

Nightmage82

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Sorry if this has been mentioned before. Though i've noticed a multitude of topics that have been debated before, and it seems that if u spend about 6 months here you can discuss just about everything that gets discussed heh. i think that's pretty cool, anyway back to the point.

after experimenting with sliding my real-life car around the roads i've noticed a few more inconsistencies with gt3. most irritating of which seems to be the way the engine decides to put itself into neutral when stuff starts happening.

if u are in the middle of a drift, and starting to slide, a good way to bring you back into line is to hit the brakes as hard as possible. then the front wheels will (hopefully) lock, but because the rear wheels are being turned by the engine, they wont lock. (if they DID lock, the engine would cut out, then they'd start rolling again and the engine would start... but that doesn't happen... at least i dont think it does). but in gran turismo, it engages the clutch for you putting ur car into neutral and letting ur back wheels lock, increasing the amount of spin you are already in, causing u to spin out.

which begs the question, if all cars seem to have abs (even tvrs, which dont in real life), why do they lock at all?

:cool:
 
Im sorry to say it, but you can't do anything with neutral in gt3. The game just doesn't have it.

I would guess it is because of the fact that in most racing scenerios the earlier you get on the gas, the faster you will go and the quicker you can get into gear, the more time you have to accelerate.

That's only my take on general ideas I've learned over the time I've been interested in racing. Hope it clears up your neutral question .

Oh yeah, abs?

Im guessing the game had coding to abs in every car entry. btw, your question and topic seem like different subjects. Abs & Neutral.:confused:
 
i would have to disagree with you, when drifting, slamming on the brakes would put you into an uncontrolable spin, and the engine would stall unless it was compression started again later in the slide, but that would only happen after you let off the brake. The cars in gran turismo don't stall, (the clutch is pushed in) because you would have no way to restart it.
 
I am by no means a drift racer, so I don't claim to have ANY knowledge about drifting whatsoever. But even in the course of grip racing I have lost traction and entered what could be the beginning phases of a drift, if I knew how to control it. I was under the impression that if your car is sliding, whether it is a FF. FR, or 4WD, the worst thing to do is hit the brakes and lock up the wheels. Then, you give up all control of the car, steering and deceleration, and the car is subject only to its momentum. I have been able to pull out of spins by accelerating or counter-steering. Once again I am not a drifter and I have never tried (and would never recommend trying) to slide my car in real life, but I don't think braking is a good way out of a slide, intentional or not.

EDIT: I would like to see a neutral gear though, just so I could rev the engines! I don't think we'll ever see a clutch in GT (too hard to implement the feel aspect of the clutch in racing).
 
Originally posted by ZZII
EDIT: I would like to see a neutral gear though, just so I could rev the engines! I don't think we'll ever see a clutch in GT (too hard to implement the feel aspect of the clutch in racing).
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Agreed here. I want to have neutral so I can rev.:cool:
 
You can rev while stopped. Just put on the E-brake or hold the brakes, then hit the throttle. It's an easy way to do a burnout, hold the brake all the way down, do the same with the throttle, then lift the brake for a SPLIT second and then immediately put the brake down about 90%.

But now that I think about it, you aren't a noob and probably knew that.
 
Originally posted by ZZII
I was under the impression that if your car is sliding, whether it is a FF. FR, or 4WD, the worst thing to do is hit the brakes and lock up the wheels.
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hitting the brakes mid-slide does different things in different types of cars. i drive an FF car in real life and when the road is wet, i know that if i hit the brakes hard on a corner, (whilst accelerating slightly) the engine keeps the front wheels turning, and the back ones lock up.

hmmmm i think i just answered my own question, i forgot that i keep the revs up whilst left foot braking exactly so that the engine doesnt cut out. maybe thats what would stop the clutch engaging in gt3? (gotta try that later heh)

for the record let me just rattle through the other car types. with rear wheel drive, if u go into a slide the best thing to do is countersteer, but once u run out of counter-lock because your tail is so far out, the thing to do is (keep the revs up) and hit the brakes. your rear wheels wont lock, but ur front should. sliding wheels have less traction than wheels with grip (clearly) so providing ur not past the point of no return, your front should slide towards the outside of the corner, bringing you back into the racing line.

in 4WD none of the wheels will lock, but hitting the brakes will throw ur car forward a little meaning ur weight is shifted to the front. when do you need that? well if u are understeering, some weight on the front is beneficial since it will give ur front wheels more traction and hopefully pull u out of understeer. so both in 4wd and FF cars, it _should_ reduce understeer. though in FF it could also induce oversteer, much like the handbrake does.
 
if you are drifting a corner then your nose is pointed towards the curb. the front of the car is travelling (relative to the direction of the car's centre of gravity) slower than the rear, if not the same rate. slamming on the foot brake will make the front wheels lock up and lose speed, sending the car into spin. thats why the worst thing to do mid-drift is slam on the brakes. you can get back on the apex using throttle control and countersteering.
left foot is used for the clutch, if you want to brake and keep the revs up use heel toe.
 
A: Normally, just before a corner you must get the car to drift slightly - and I mean slightly; I am very strictly against oversteering cars, which are going to much sideways. Let us say this car is perfect in handling - not oversteering, not understeering - it is neutral. So by putting full power on before the corner you have it drifting slightly, with the tail out a little. But now you find you have estimated the speed wrongly and the tail is going out more. You correct by steering the opposite way, but soon you will come to the full lock position - you cannot correct any more. And the car will be starting to spin. Now this is where you use the left foot instead of the steering wheel. Just before you reach the full lock position, and still keeping the power on to the rear wheels, you hit the brake pedal quite hard with your left foot. The front wheels lock and slide, so the front of the car comes back to the right direction for the corner.
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taken from:

an interview with a rally driver
 
sorry mage, cant imagine that situation. how can locked up wheels travel faster than driving wheels, even on dirt and gravel roads?
 
Well, according to what I learned in 8th grade science, rolling slows you down more than sliding since you're distributing the heat from the friction to all parts of the wheel and since the locked wheels are only sliding, not rolling like the "driving wheels", then that means the "driving" wheels would slow down faster than the sliding wheels, therefore causing the locked wheels to travel faster than the driving wheels.

Well, after typing all that, I never really read mage's post...good god I'm an idiot. I think what I just said only applies to rallying.

Just ignore me
 
tingboy you are correct in a way, that is precisely the reason why abs can stop you faster than just slamming the brakes and locking up.

however there's something else here at play and it will explain kikkoman's post:
Originally posted by kikkoman
sorry mage, cant imagine that situation. how can locked up wheels travel faster than driving wheels, even on dirt and gravel roads?
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locked wheels do not necessarily travel 'faster' than driven wheels. (i had to get my scale model of an F40 to fully understand this, so get out a model of a car and it might help you picture the situation) :)

(if u dont want to read everything below, the basic concept is: hitting the brakes shifts weight as well as locking the wheels, if u dont know how that helps, read on!)

so ur driving along, you take a left hand corner, say, and ur going around fine. u decide to go faster and hit the accelerator, ur F40 has two turbos, you don't anticipate the power surge and ur rear wheels spin, the rear of the car loses traction and u start sliding out. countersteer is applied but soon you are in full lock and ur back is still sliding away.

now notice at this point, even though ur rear wheels are 'driven' they have no grip. they are sliding...

however you front wheels may still have some grip left in them. if weight was not an issue and u removed the grip from the front wheels, what do you think would happen?

well it would be just like being on ice. the back of your car wouldn't slide out, u'd just remain in the sideways position and fly out to the outside of the curve.

but weight IS an issue. the inertia/weight of the back of the car is forcing it to spin you around. so you do what was mentioned earlier in this thread, you hit the brakes with ur left foot. (u could hit them with ur right, the foot thing isn't an issue in understanding this)

if you were driving along a straight road, what would happen to the car if u slammed the brakes? everyone inside would get thrown forward and caught by the seatbelts right? this is called weight shifting. and that's exactly what you do in our F40 example...

u hit the brakes hard and that does two things. it shifts the weight forward, so the back of your car has no reason to keep forcing ur car to spin, and hopefully it will lock up the front wheels.

as we've already established that the rear wheels lost grip, now the front don't have any, its JUST like being on ice. no grip anywhere, but the weight is on the front of the car. instead of the weight/inertia being at the back and spining the rear of the car around, it now applies the same force to the front of the car.

still with me?

so none of ur wheels have grip, and theres a big mysterious weight-force on the front of ur car pushing THE FRONT towards the outside of the corner, thereby bringing ur car out of a spin and enabling u to get control.


eek :eek: , i have to cut this short and go now. if anyone still doesn't understand i could post some pictures, but i hope that helps! :P
 
ok, i see what you're talking about now.
but after a certain amount of oversteer the angle to be corrected will be too great and locking up the brakes will jack knife the car. couldn't you just ease off the throttle instead to correct mass oversteer?
 
Originally posted by GoKents
Im sorry to say it, but you can't do anything with neutral in gt3. The game just doesn't have it.
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Actually, it does (at least when you use AT), you just can't apply throttle without a gear engaging. Try hitting the handbrake sometime. It will shift to neutral, as long as you don't try to accelerate. I can't remember if braking causes a shift, though, and I can't check right now.
 
Originally posted by kikkoman
ok, i see what you're talking about now.
but after a certain amount of oversteer the angle to be corrected will be too great and locking up the brakes will jack knife the car. couldn't you just ease off the throttle instead to correct mass oversteer?
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well after a certain point as you put it, you can't do ANYTHING, ur car will spin the car, hitting the brakes then will do it quicker yes. but up until that point, easing off the throttle is as good as what i mentioned above.

and civic: you are quite correct, and braking doesn't engage gear again, i use that all the time. though i wanted it in a way that isn't quite available yet, read up! :P
 
FYI: if you tap reverse at speed, the clutch disengages and lets the car coast with only wind resistance and friction slow you down.
 

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