NEW 3 Series coupe Spy pics.

[194GVan]

previous generation solaras don't look bad, theres actually one around here thats a coupe, lowered, subtle bodykit and rims and i'd have to say it looks real good. much better than the accord coupe of the same years.

but the new ones are just ugly. it sort of looks like a larger version of the beatiful SC400 convertible, but just comes off as looking fat and bloated and much uglier than its Lexus kin.

 

[VIPFREAK]

What happen to this?? Granted I know it's an M but that looks wayyyyyyy better.

 

[Izanagi]

BMW is going downhill in many aspects, IMO.

1. I-Drive, the most ridiculous, waste of time and money, unnecessary system fitted on a "performance" car today.
2. (here my opinion is stated along with all of these other people's: http://www.petitiononline.com/STOPCB/petition.html ) Please fire the current head designer, Chris Bangle, and cut off his hands so that he will never ruin another line of cars.

Well, actually since I don't want to be a negativist on these forums and since I'm sure many of you won't particularly care about my opinions, I'll stop here. Anyone else who wants to complete my list of gripes, please go right ahead.

 

[skip0110]

I think it's slick

And last I heard the Camry was not a bad car.

Styling aside, the 1st generation was about as stiff as a wet noodle.

The new ones are better, I hear, but probably closer to "soft cheese" than "granite" in the stiffness department.

 

[YSSMAN]

The 2007 Camry SE review is out in C/D, and to sum it up the only difference between the SE model and the rest of the lineup is a "tightened" suspension and steering system, and somewhat "sporty" looks...

Problem is, the car is down on power, grip, and a nanny that will let the driver have fun... The goods are there, but Toyota designed the car so it cant use them? They seem to be doing that a lot lately...

 

[Wolfe]

 

[franz]

If M3 based on the coupe
that will be butt ugly ... bad news

 

[Ev0]

I actually think it looks pretty good. Except for the back end; it just looks awkward because it is too high (although the benefit of this is probably increased trunk space vs. a more asthetically pleasing design).

I have to admit, Bangle's designs have grown on me. I used to hate the 5 series, but I think it is quite an attractive car now; I think I just needed some time to get used to it. That being said, I still think the previous gen 5 and 3 series looked 1,000,000x better; those were some of the best looking cars ever made.

 

[Poverty]

Audi's look better than BMW's.
Most of their engines are better than BMW's
They are safer than BMW's
Their interior is alot better than BMW's
They are cheaper than BMW's
They drivetrain is better than BMW's.
Theyre cheaper to service than BMW's.

Going by european reviews the 3 series just slightly takes it from the A4 but they say its very close. Its just the driving dynamics and badge of the BMW that wins it. Audi's problem was that the car was nose heavy and therefore they had to have a agressive suspension setup to counteract that. Therefore everyday driving comfort wasnt as good as BMW's but several publications have said that the A4 would probably be quicker around a track than the 3 series if they both went head to head with similiar output engines barring the M3 which is uber.

As for mercedes they are arent in the same league as BMW or audi. Or should I say they wont be in the same league as the mercedes. Mercedes has some very very big plans. Thats why we havent heard anything about the new C class thats due next year. Theyre keeping everything under wraps. Mercedes is going back to their roots and they will once again be above bmw and audi but your going to have to pay for it as usual.

 

[Danny]

Unfortunatley, Audi don't have the prestige of a BMW.

 

[Wolfe]

Audi's look better than BMW's.

If you like a heaping helping of "blah" with a big goatee on the front, sure.

Most of their engines are better than BMW's

The 4-cylinders are only more powerful because they're turbocharged, the 3.2L VR6 is larger yet just as powerful as the silky-smooth BMW 3.0L straight-six, and the W12 is only slightly more powerful than the equal-displacement smooth BMW V12. Audi's V8 is good though, there's no denying it.

They are safer than BMW's

Because they're heavier and have AWD, sure.

Their interior is alot better than BMW's

Definitely, though I really like the iDrive-less E90 interior.

They are cheaper than BMW's

On this side of the atlantic they're rather close.

They drivetrain is better than BMW's.

If you hate oversteer/drifting, are one of those types who believes that AWD is the drivetrain of the gods, and/or enjoy maintaining a more complicated drivetrain, sure.

Theyre cheaper to service than BMW's.

Again, on this side of the atlantic they're rather close. Anything from Europe is expensive here.

 

[Poverty]

The 4-cylinders are only more powerful because they're turbocharged, the 3.2L VR6 is larger yet just as powerful as the silky-smooth BMW 3.0L straight-six, and the W12 is only slightly more powerful than the equal-displacement smooth BMW V12. Audi's V8 is good though, there's no denying it.

The engines that you guys get in america are very close. But in europe were we have a really wide range of engines audi generally has better ones. Audi's diesels are very economical and powerful and BMW does have some very good diesels as well but not as wide a range. Their 330d 325d is very good.

When performance matters BMW usually just about tops audi in the engine making. The M5 and M3 engines are very good racers whilst the audi ones barring the rs4 are more gentlemen like.

Theres not much to choose between the two but in europe the industry agrees that VAG are top dog with everyday engines.

If you hate oversteer/drifting, are one of those types who believes that AWD is the drivetrain of the gods, and/or enjoy maintaining a more complicated drivetrain, sure.

LOL yeah although I will have you know that you can get the tail out on the S8 I was more thinking along the lines that DSG is alot better than SMG.

 

[///M-Spec]

Looks pretty good to me. The article did not mention the 335Ci, which will be 300+ hp.

Audi's look better than BMW's.

Styling is largely a matter of personal preference, don't you think?

Most of their engines are better than BMW's

Care to offer a reason? When you compare apples to apples, they are in fact, pretty close.

They are safer than BMW's

Oh really? Do you have any evidence of this?

Their interior is alot better than BMW's

Audi has a good historical track record with their interiors, I agree. But I'd say this is still an exaggeration. See my first comment.

They are cheaper than BMW's

In an apples to apples comparision, where cars are spec'd with the same options, Audi has a miniscule price advantage (~5%). At least in the North American market.

In a ~$40,000 USD well equipped 330i or A4 3.2, this is about a $2,000 difference in price. Which is more than made up for by BMW's superior resale value.

They drivetrain is better than BMW's.

Care to elaborate on this?

Theyre cheaper to service than BMW's.

The only way this would be true is if Audi payed you money everytime you brought your car in for service. That's because a BMW costs... ZERO to service while under it's new car warranty period of 4 years / 50,000 miles.

I've had my 330i ZHP for 18 months now and I've yet to shell out a single dime on service and maintanence. The only thing that's cost me out of pocket was fuel. That and soon, tires.

It you looked at cars outside of their warranty/free service period, you doubt you could make any facts-based case that Audis are any more or less costly to service and maintain than a comparable BMW.


M

 

[Poverty]

Styling is largely a matter of personal preference, don't you think?

Yes it is. But most people on this site would say that audi's look nicer.

Care to offer a reason? When you compare apples to apples, they are in fact, pretty close.

It would take me all day to get all the factuals but the BMW engines that are better than the audi ones is the new M5's the 3.0 and the 3.0D. The rest audi of the range audi engines cater better.

Oh really? Do you have any evidence of this?

Yeah I do have i'll dig it up later.

In a ~$40,000 USD well equipped 330i or A4 3.2, this is about a $2,000 difference in price. Which is more than made up for by BMW's superior resale value.

Well with the resale value its fluctuating at the moment. The resale values of audi's have risen quite alot and it might be about even with BMW's now. There was a article about it I'll dig that up later too.

As for the initail price between those two cars (in the UK) theres about 2 grands differences aswell except thats pounds which is nearly $3800.

Care to elaborate on this?

DSG over SMG.

It you looked at cars outside of their warranty/free service period, you doubt you could make any facts-based case that Audis are any more or less costly to service and maintain than a comparable BMW.

Yes audis are usually about £100 less than a bmw. Some audi's cost less to service than their vw counterparts

Just like to add something else in favour of audi. They copied BMW's i-drive and most people really like it. Some say its what BMW's i-drive should have been

Either way at the moment the cars are so evenly balanced your heart will swing the vote on whichever make you choose.

 

[Ghost C]

It looks better than the sedan, although that doesn't say much.

 

[///M-Spec]

Yes it is. But most people on this site would say that audi's look nicer.

If that were true, it just makes it a popular opinion; not a fact. If popular opinion equaled fact, than the best food would be pizza, everyone would wear blue jeans and since women make up the majority of the population, we would be all married to Mel Gibson.

It would take me all day to get all the factuals but the BMW engines that are better than the audi ones is the new M5's the 3.0 and the 3.0D. The rest audi of the range audi engines cater better.

Over here in North America, BMW and Audi's bread and butter engines are the 3.0 liter N54 inline 6 and 3.2 liter BKH V6. These motors account for the bulk of the sales. Despite the variations in layout, basic archetecture and induction technology, they are remarkably similar in performance.

For base motors, the new 2.0 Turbo BPG is certainly a good motor, but it marketed directly against the "2.5" version of the N54, which makes more power and doesn't have any turbo lag. If BMW still had NA 4 cylinder engines in their line up, it may be a different story, but in our market, BMW has the more attractive engine choices, particularly in the mainstream V8 range.

Now, the RS4 engine is quite impressive; I'll give you that. My only reservation there is the car is $75K+ USD. Which puts it in the same range as a Porsche 997 S.

Yeah I do have i'll dig it up later.

Please do. I'd be curious to see it.

Well with the resale value its fluctuating at the moment. The resale values of audi's have risen quite alot and it might be about even with BMW's now. There was a article about it I'll dig that up later too.

Not on my side of the pond.

BMW Tops in Resale Value, Says Kelley Blue Book

As for the initail price between those two cars (in the UK) theres about 2 grands differences aswell except thats pounds which is nearly $3800.

I feel a bit sorry for you guys in the UK. 30k GBP for a base 330i is almost $54,000 USD. That's V8 powered 5-series/A6 price territory here.

But then again, you guys get lots of cars that we don't get here.

DSG over SMG.

DSG is superior in many ways to SMG.

But DSG and SMG accounts for a miniscule portion of Audi and BMW sales.

For example, ~35% of all 3-series in the USA are manual transmission. SMG has accounted for about 5-7% of all sales, with the rest going to the auto.

But Audi doesn't offer the DSG in ANY of it's A4, A6 or A8 cars. The only Audi you can get DSG in is the A3 and TT. I hear the new RS4 will have DSG as an option, but we don't have that car yet.

So for the vast majority of consumers ---even enthusiast consumers in the premium sports sedan market --- DSG is hardly registering. The 6-speed manual and automatics drive the market here, and frankly, there is not much difference between BMW and Audi in this respect.

Yes audis are usually about £100 less than a bmw. Some audi's cost less to service than their vw counterparts

Proof? Or is this anecdotal 'evidence'?

If you like anecdotal evidence, I've got some for you. My wife used to have a VW. A Jetta 1.8T (you call them Boras). The VW cost way more to maintain than my BMW, since the BMW cost me nothing. But they made you pay for everything on V-Dub.

Just like to add something else in favour of audi. They copied BMW's i-drive and most people really like it. Some say its what BMW's i-drive should have been

It's a bit of a wash, since they both suck when compared to the Japanese systems.

Either way at the moment the cars are so evenly balanced your heart will swing the vote on whichever make you choose.

I like Audis. I like BMWs more, but I never feel the need to belittle Audis in order to express my preference for BMW.


M

 

[Carl.]

New images from Motor trend:

Don't know if it's the black color, but it doesn't look as bad...

 

[VIPFREAK]

Can't be... not banglized enough. try again.

 

[YSSMAN]

...The pannel gaps look absolutely HUGE on that car. Thank God its a pre-production test mule, having gaps that big on the hood and the doors is outrageous on a German car.

 

[ND4SPD]

Hmm the front end is like a an attractive chicks face but the rest of the car is like a nasty bloated body...

 

[Onikaze]

DSG > SMG...I will give you that.

Rowing Your Own > Super Intelligent Autobox

AWD=Nice (BMW offers it too...btw)

RWD+Superb Ride/Handling Balance=For me.

Looks=Subjective, the new look of the Audi's is better than ever to me, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that Audi's begin as FWD car that have AWD added onto them.

If I got a German Car, it would be a Porsche or a BMW...Audi/Mercedes are more on the cushy/luxury side of the equation than I like.

 

[Blackbird.]

Ugh! It looks so bland!

 

[Onikaze]

Oh, I would post the photos, but they are huge.

So I will just link them.

Old Photo of the same mule seen in the Motor Trend pics, saw it November.

Same Pic, Digitally Altered to try and remove some camouflage.

This > Audi S3

Now if they would just make a 1 notchback.

 

[Blackbird.]

Honestly, from first glance if I saw the rear I'd say it was a Mercedes. It doesn't even resemble a BMW anymore from what I can tell from those MT spy photos.

 

[Poverty]

Onikaze 1 series you posted a pic of is that he 130i or a M version?

As for that bmw coupe its too bloated. The rear end hangs out too much and it loses its sporty flowing lines.

And I will post those articles soon M5power.

 

[Onikaze]

According to The Article it is a 130i (130Ci? 230Ci?) Which sounds great to me.

Another Shot of the 1 3 -Door.

Oh, from the dual exhausts on that coupe...I believe I know what it is.

335Ci. Twin Turbo I-6.

 

[Wolfe]

Finally, they made a better-looking 1-series...I've been waiting to see the 3-door version.

I'm seriously beginning to wonder about the E90 coupe, though.... ...the E90 sedan looks so nice...

 

[Driftster]

is that the new Toyota Avalon?

 

[Poverty]

Finally, they made a better-looking 1-series...I've been waiting to see the 3-door version.

I'm seriously beginning to wonder about the E90 coupe, though.... ...the E90 sedan looks so nice...

I rate the 1 series extremly highly. The 130i makes a beautiful noise and I saw a 120i doing about 35mph when suddenly doing a stright 90 degree turn except the man left it so late to turn in I would have thought there would be some serious tyre squaling or him going on the other side of teh road but it went smoothly as if it was a formula one car. Me and my friends were amazed. Still are to this day.

But the new R32 is faster than the 130i around a track anyway.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

But the new R32 is faster than the 130i around a track anyway.

According to...?

I personally am really disappointed with what I've seen of the new 3-series coupe. The E46 had near-perfect proportions, and this one just looks way too long and, (I never thought I'd say this), the back end doesn't raise up nearly enough. One of my biggest complaints with modern cars is the ever-raising trunk, yet this new E90 coupe seems to buck the trend and takes it to the other extreme. This just looks so... unsporting. The hints of 6-series aside, and the Bangled sides of the car... well, the profile makes me think of what might be seen if Audi decided to coupify the A4.

I'm really, really interested in the turbo'd engine though, and a three-door 1-series is a Very Good Thing in my mind. But I'm worried the next M3 will just not look like a proper sporting car, all because the dimensions of the base are so off.

Dynamically, no Audi (until the mid-engined R8 arrives) will be able to match a BMW. It comes down to the fact that hanging the engine infront of the axle will always cause the Audi to push, where the BMW will stick to its line. That, and while I love AWD, I know that unless it's an intelligent system like any of the Japanese rockets (Skyline, Evo, STi), in perfect conditions it'll hold the car back.