NEW 3 Series coupe Spy pics.

[niky]

Top Gear or Evo, I think, but not by much, I think. (someone dig up numbers, quick!)

One problem with the 130i is that even if the engine is on the right side of the axle, it's still pretty heavy, and causes considerable push in the 130.

That's why the 120i is so much better a drive than the 120d, despite the power deficit... less weight over the front wheels.

 

[///M-Spec]

Re: R32 vs. 130i

It doesn't surprise me that the R32 would be quicker than a 130i on a track, especially if it were a technical one. It's not really an apples to apples comparison, though.

The VW wants to position the 'R' line like the equivilant of BMW 'M' series of cars. Thus, the R32 has more aggressive suspension tuning than the 130i, which while a good driver's car, is still compromised with what I call a "95th percentile chassis" (ie-comfortable and safe enough for most drivers, but not the most capable). It's simply the 1er with the biggest engine, not the hardcore racer in the lineup. BMW saves the real suspension magic for the M cars. It has to if it were to make a case for any future M product based on the 1.

Not to mention the 130i --like every non-M BMW-- has no LSD, which puts makes it much harder to leverage the extra power advantage the 130 has. Meanwhile, the R32 has no such traction issues, owing to what basically amounts to a quattro system.

I understand the cars are priced almost identically, which makes a comparison valid from a pricing stand-point. There is no denying the R32 offers more bang for the buck.

But from a goal and mission standpoint, an M-Series car based on the 1 would be a more even match up. A slightly detuned S54 engine (with, say 315 hp) and the M-diff would probably put an end to this issue. Of course, such a car would sell for much more $ and might even bite into Z4/Z4 M Coupe sales, so I would be suprised if we saw one any time soon.


M

 

[Onikaze]

Shhh, don't kill my dreams of an M2 CSL...spiritual successor to the E30 M3 Evo II and III.

Let me have my happy little world with 2 series coupes damn you!

 

[Poverty]

According to...

Topgear.

the profile makes me think of what might be seen if Audi decided to coupify the A4.

They are its called the A5. Expect it end of 2006/early 2007.

Dynamically, no Audi (until the mid-engined R8 arrives) will be able to match a BMW. It comes down to the fact that hanging the engine infront of the axle will always cause the Audi to push, where the BMW will stick to its line. That, and while I love AWD, I know that unless it's an intelligent system like any of the Japanese rockets (Skyline, Evo, STi), in perfect conditions it'll hold the car back.

I wonder what must have happened for the RS4 to be so great then. Faster than the M5 and M6 with 100 less bhp and weighing about 150kgs less.

The new audi's wont have their engines infront of the axle and I will bet you that the A5 (the first audi to use its new uber chassis) will take the bmw's driver crown. The only thing I can see it holding the new chassis back is the quattro which will probably prevent you from sticking the tail out on the lower powered models.

 

[YSSMAN]

Audis (and the rest of VW's products for that matter) suffer from more of a weight problem than anything, and that is what causes the Audis and VWs to lack behind their competition in many circumstances. However, cars like the S4/RS4 and GTI/GLI are generally exceptions to the rule as they have been dramatically upgraded and tuned to make the best of what they have.

BMWs are damn near perfect in terms of driving and the overall performance attitude, but Audi and Mercedes still have them beat on the interior and exterior styling and the general feeling of solidity.

 

[Onikaze]

The RS4 is faster than an M5/M6?

Are you sure that isn't a bit of Audi fan bias there?

 

[Poverty]

Audis (and the rest of VW's products for that matter) suffer from more of a weight problem than anything, and that is what causes the Audis and VWs to lack behind their competition in many circumstances. However, cars like the S4/RS4 and GTI/GLI are generally exceptions to the rule as they have been dramatically upgraded and tuned to make the best of what they have.

BMW and audi figures are sometimes so even matched that its hard to call on which one is better. As for the weight lamborghinis and audi's tend to be heavier than their competition due to their 4wd system. The system in lamborghinis are especially complex.

Remember manufacturers liek seat are owned by VAG and theyre light fwd versions of vw and vw are mostly light but werent made to compete with anything from bmw or audi.

Audi's because handling problem is a nose heavy car. That will be rectified with the new model. They still handle better than mercedes.

The RS4 is faster than an M5/M6?

Are you sure that isn't a bit of Audi fan bias there?

No go check out the nurburgring lap times thread. It was a big deal for audi fans for the RS4 to beat the M5/M6 and now theyres big hype about the proposed 550hp RS6.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I actually thought the new BMW looked good. Not as good as the E46, but still good.

So, about the new Audi A5; That will borrow design features from the Audi Nuvolari concept, so it will look really nice!

 

[///M-Spec]

And I will post those articles soon M5power.

I'm not M5Power

.....but any luck?

-----

It's funny to read some of the grousing on the E90/E92. Set the wayback machine to 1998 and everyone was grousing the same way about the E46.

Except instead of ugly, they all said the E46 was bland and unimaginative. Not to mention fat and soft. Now everyone says it's a classic. Haha.

Go back to 1990 and people had the same unkind things to say about the E36. Some people are so resistant to change.


M

 

[Danny]

The new audi's wont have their engines infront of the axle and I will bet you that the A5 (the first audi to use its new uber chassis) will take the bmw's driver crown.

I smell bias.

 

[Poverty]

Audi's A4 being safest in its class.

http://www.forbesautos.com/advice/t..._sixteen_4.html]Plus[/url], the Audi A4 is one of the safest vehicles on the market, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. The A4 received the IIHS’ “Good" and a "Best Pick” rating, for both the side-impact and frontal offset crash tests. Plus, Audi’s interiors are among the finest in the industry, with premium materials used throughout the passenger compartment. At a base price of just $28,360, the A4 is a bargain.

Audi's having best residual value

The revised version of the AUDI A4, since at the beginning of November with the dealers, will obtain the highest residual value of its class according to a prognosis of Eurotax Glass's in three years. During a run achievement of 60,000 kilometers all A4-Modelle would have lain in this "Car ton market analysis in such a way specified" on average of five per cent points over the comparable current models of the competition, communicated the Ingolstaedter.

 

[Poverty]

I smell bias.

Audi's sole aim is to beat BMW in anything and everything. Just check out the horsepower wars. BMW has a car with 500hp and audi will make sure that theres will atleast have 501hp.

Also some of the audi bigwigs have been saying that theyre going to be surprising everyone with their new cars.

And the A8 outhandles the the BMW 7er and mercedes S-class so thats a start.

 

[wing_0]

I loved the E46, one of the few Beemers I really liked...

This thing... Is ugly... I can't imagine a good looking ///M version of this, it looks so plastic, fake, and bangled up...

Curse you Bangle, curse you!

 

[BMW POWER]

Looks pretty decent, I think once the official pictures are released it will look a lot better than the spy shots. Poverty, I see your not a fan of BMW oh and with regards to the A8 outhandling the 7 Series, any proof?

 

[Poverty]

I love BMW but I just like audi better. Infact I brown nose them. Especially M models.

 

[///M-Spec]

Audi's A4 being safest in its class.

The paragraph said "one of the safest vehicles on the market"...

Which does not support what you wrote here:

They (Audis) are safer than BMW's

ALL Audis are safer than ALL BMWs? I don't think so.

Neither does getting the "Best Pick" award from IIHS support this. BMWs get this award all the time.

5-Series: Nissan, Volvo S40 and BMW 5 series shine in crash tests

X5: BMW X-5 receives "best pick" rating...

The E46 got a "Best Pick" when it was tested in 2000. And the IIHS has not yet tested the E90.

So I don't find this evidence very convincing, sorry.

Audi's having best residual value

"...will* obtain the highest residual value of its class according to a prognosis of Eurotax Glass's in three years*" (emphisis mine)

This is a prediction, not a fact. It is also a market specific prediction. And I've already provided proof to the contrary in the US market.


M

 

[///M-Spec]

Shhh, don't kill my dreams of an M2 CSL...spiritual successor to the E30 M3 Evo II and III.

Let me have my happy little world with 2 series coupes damn you!

Hmm. I've always thought of the E36/9 M Coupe as the spiritual successor to the E30 M3.

It may not be called a "2", but the coupe is highly likely, I think. The CSL dream is probably just that.

Here's a random thought: BMW is now calling the 255 version of the Z4, the "3.0Si". The 215hp version is just the "3.0i". Does that mean the "S" moniker is returning to BMW to denote the highest performance engine in the model range?

If so... does that make the 300+hp version of the new 3 series coupe (bi-turbo or NA)... a ... "335CSi"?

Something to consider...


M

 

[Danny]

I hope you don't mind me using the same source.

Despite its huge size, it's still a great driver's car and virtually a match for the all-conquering 5-Series in terms of driver appeal. It also happens to be great value, because used buyers tend to shy away from its perceived complexity. Indeed it is complex, potentially troublesome and expensive to keep going, but buy a good one and you'll have a true gem of a car.

 

[Onikaze]

Mmm...335CSi would be nice.

Of course, if it's twin turbo...then what?

335CTSI?

That's getting absurd.

 

[X5.]

The current 3 series isn't appealing, so to be quite fair i wasn't expecting the coupe to be either. No surprises there 👎

They don't make 'em how they use to

bring on the E36!!

 

[a6m5]

I'm not M5Power

.....but any luck?

Sorry to go back few pages, but I just found this thread. I think the car looks OK, but I do not like the headlights. I know it's kind of getting old to bash on Bangle, but is it just me, or did (almost)entire lineup from BMW used to look great?

 

[X5.]

but is it just me, or did (almost)entire lineup from BMW used to look great?

That was in the distant past

Good ole' days.

 

[Amemiya]

The sedans are way better.

 

[YSSMAN]

I would agree that in general that the BMW sedans look better, but at the same time the new 3 and 6 series cars arent that bad either. I think the problem is that the lines are just so willy-nilly like they are on the Z4, and it just doesnt translate well.

 

[Poverty]

It's funny to read some of the grousing on the E90/E92. Set the wayback machine to 1998 and everyone was grousing the same way about the E46.

Except instead of ugly, they all said the E46 was bland and unimaginative. Not to mention fat and soft. Now everyone says it's a classic. Haha.

Go back to 1990 and people had the same unkind things to say about the E36. Some people are so resistant to change.


M

Yeah I agree with this. I think its like that for every car which is replacing a very loved model. Just look at the new audi's. People didnt like them at first and now loads of people are coming around.

Plus I can show you guys plenty of hot looking 3ers if you want and I mean tons of them.

 

[Wolfe]

Sorry to go back few pages, but I just found this thread. I think the car looks OK, but I do not like the headlights. I know it's kind of getting old to bash on Bangle, but is it just me, or did (almost)entire lineup from BMW used to look great?

I agree, the headlights are pretty much the only thing holding the car back...but they manage to do such a thorough job of ruining the whole thing!

Anyway, you're bashing Bangle, yes, but also complimenting him -- the E46 was Bangle, too.

 

[Poverty]

 

[Poverty]

Engine rumours.

E92/3, engines:

323i = N52
325i = N52 & N53
330i = N52 & N53
330d = M57
335d = M57
335i = N54 (225kW = 306HP)
335si = N54 (245kW = 333HP) - with ZSG gearbox!!!

xDrive will be also available on specific models - a bit later.

No more "Ci" & "Cd" label, but only "i", "d" & "si" instead.

It is possible some markets (e.g. US) get different designations: e.g. 328i instead of 330i, 323i instead of 325i etc.

N53 engines only for Europe, not US. He said no power change over N52 - so I guess US will still have N52 engines & later this year also a N51.

PR coming mid February.

Legend:
N52 - current I6 2.5L & 30L engines
N53 - 2.5L & 3.0L engines with DI
N54 - 3.0L variable twin turbo
N51 - 2.5L SULEV II engine

 

[Vonie]

Looks way too feminine.

 

[///M-Spec]

Engine rumours.

It looks in line with everything I've read, except for a 333hp engine in addition to a 306hp engine. That sounds bogus to me, especially if this came from a US source: we have always gotten just 2 engine options here, not counting the M3. It makes no sense to offer 2 turbo options, with only a ~30 hp difference between the two.

Here's my prediction for the petrol six cylinder 3er lineup:

328i = 235 hp. 2.5 or 3.0 N54 (depending on market), with direct injection.
335si = 310 hp. 3.0 liter variable geometry twin sequential turbo.

I can see possibly, the 330i staying in the line as a third, mid-range model. Direct injection will probably boost power from 255hp to ~270hp. But given the history of the 3 series, wouldn't bet money on it.

There were rumors of a naturally aspirated 3.5 liter 335i making the same power as the turbo for the North American market, also. It would have used a bored and stroked version of the N52 engine. Turns out it was rubbish.


M