New Penalty System killed the "racing" in GTS

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by bmxmitch, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. IAMDOODLEBUG

    IAMDOODLEBUG

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    At the start of the week I agreed with the sentiment. However, it *just* about works on tracks which people know and with people who have similar abilities. Brands was good yesterday for the most part and it didn't stop the "racing" - I spent one race behind a guy from the UK called Trevisio. I was faster but he was was driving well enough not to give any opportunities away and I could not get past the entire race. While I was frustrated, I was throwing the kitchen sink at him from 1 foot away and it was an enjoyable battle. Had the penalty system been as before, it wouldnt have changed the outcome for me personally as there was no safe or certain route past. On balance though, I saw some utter carnage with overly aggressive people making silly moves bashing eachother about, inevitably getting penalties... The system falls over when drivers of different abilities are put together - different braking points and lines will always result in taps here and there, these are the things which should be toned down in terms of penalties.
     
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  2. Finflash

    Finflash

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    If racing in low ranks people are driving 80% of the limit of the car or something like that. Easy to overtake because so inconsistent pace. There's no problem there. If you just lift the gas slightly in wrong places in higher ranks it's easy 0,5-1 sec loss in lap time. You just don't understand the cumulative effect of this when driving on the limit.
     
  3. bmxmitch

    bmxmitch

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    Yep, the slight taps that don't hurt anyone need to be ignored in the system. Same if you miss a turn and go wide. Why punish someone, if he already punished himself enough!?

    And just imagine, you had this great race with this dude and all of a sudden he brakes a little earlier than usual. You touch him slightly and both of you get penalties, resulting in a destroyed race/fight for both of you :indiff:
     
  4. Finflash

    Finflash

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    83
    Not really a overtaking places at brands anyway is there? Not without a big mistake. So, not a big ffect at certain tracksI admit that. Try to do a blockpass somewhere and you see the problem.
     
  5. _ApexPredator

    _ApexPredator

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    I think that's his point though, not many overtaking places at Brands and a few of us still managed some fairly clean races. 2-weeks ago do you think we'd be able to say the same?

    People would force the overtakes, now they're thinking twice.
     
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  6. Finflash

    Finflash

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    Good point. Now that you mention it, I think this thing might go opposite with the ranks. In higher ranks there hasn't been that many issues with forced overtakes anyway. I suspect this might have been the problem in lower ranks? New penalty system seems to favour low ranks at the cost of higher DR racing.
     
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  7. Alfabob46

    Alfabob46

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    I am like you also I didn't agree at first but if what i experienced yesterday at Brands is anything to go by it actually works. It looks like drivers are beginning to think about a pass rather than dive bomb at the first chance.
    Since this update to the penalty system I have been able to increase my DR from 20,000 to 40,300 while maintaining an SR S
    Edit,
    But that said there was nearly 67,000 entrants worldwide on Brands hatch GR4 yesterday so I guess there was some good matching going on during the peak times, I remember the whole grid of DR A driver covered by 2 seconds last night in the UK.
     
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  8. JamCar0ne

    JamCar0ne

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    I like the new penalty system and think it is a step in the right direction. Remember the 'Golden Rule' of motorsports: "It is the responsibility of the overtaking driver, meaning the car that is attempting to execute the pass, to make sure that the pass is made cleanly and incident free". Shouldn't matter what the DR of the driver in front of you is, find a way to pass without making contact. Even if you can't, it will surely be a great battle. Didn't Kaz once say drivers of various abilities need to learn to respect each other on track?
     
  9. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    I was getting bored of the game with the updates not including additional racing categories, or significant numbers of new tracks. To actually release an update that has actively made the game worse has been enough for me not to play the game since.
     
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  10. oamoShotya

    oamoShotya

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    74
    The new system is awesome!

    People in this thread is complaining about that they cant overtake anymore because risking the penalties and loss of their precious SR.
    Racing in real life is even worse, they are risking million of dollars in cars and dont forget their life! And if they crash, they cant just try again in a new race 20 minutes later like we can in GTS either.
    I guess most people don't try to race like i do, really immerse myself and try to race like an real life driver. if more people would have that mindset then the penalties would not feel as bad.
     
  11. Pedinhuh

    Pedinhuh

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    677
    I thought the unfair penalties where at DR S/SR S?

    I'm at DR B/SR S and I haven't been unfair penalized yet...

    In fact, I straight up did two rage quits the last two days and my SR rating haven't been tanked...


    Maybe I'm glitched?
     
  12. Alfabob46

    Alfabob46

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    Screenshot_20180310-130757.jpg

    You can race well with this system and have good close battles but a lot is down to mind set and driver skill.
    For day after day I was stuck in the same loop of doing well and then being the victim of a punt to pass and then at the next corner I was retuning serve and this is shown in my stats.
    So I have changed my race plan and for my last 2 days of racing I've gone down the route of,
    If a driver catches up with me on track I signal and let them by, let's face it if he's faster than me why create an incident by trying to hold him off,
    obviously if it's the last couple of laps then this isn't the case.
    Once he's past tuck in behind and follow sometimes this can help increase your own pace.
    I have found that this for the most part gains you respect from that driver and leads to close and fair racing.
    I do believe that this system is harsh but get your head around it understand why and what causes the penalty's and do your best to keep out of trouble.

    Now it's not all plain sailing as even with this strategy I have been punted to the moon and had some moments that didn't go to plan but I have had a lot less moment of being annoyed at the game and more moments of thinking that was a good race.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  13. _ApexPredator

    _ApexPredator

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    There's your answer then :S
     
  14. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    It read this as supporting the point of this thread. You are being rewarded for not racing.
     
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  15. BSDShoes

    BSDShoes

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    These days I'm not really racing the other drivers, I'm racing the system. My distance behind the car ahead of me is further apart now and I haven't rammed anyone in over a week. But the ramming behind me still happens.
     
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  16. bmxmitch

    bmxmitch

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    Sounds nice in theory, but I bet you haven't experienced what most S/A drivers experience.

    And my point is not the unfair races or dive-bombers before the patch, nor is it loosing SR, its the loss of real racing! Everyone is just too scared of penalties now, because the slightest contact will give you 2secs that only go away if you break hard on a strait. Or, as some do, in the corner...

    Penalties like they are now, destroy every close race! Maybe not in DR B-E, but most definitely in DR S/A
     
  17. Spurgy 777

    Spurgy 777

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    The issue is getting penalties for incredibly light contact and worst of all when that contact isn't remotely your fault. The amount of contact we're getting penalised for would be of no concern to a real life driver as it wouldn't cause any damage, especially not enough damage to worry them, and it definitely wouldn't be enough contact to get a penalty.

    I do question if you actually even know any racing drivers because for the most part we don't particularly care about the risk of contact when we're racing, small mistakes that result in minor contact aren't likely to affect us, and it normally requires a fairly major :censored: up for you to cause serious damage. Even then the main concern for most drivers is not finishing the race, as a lot of racing drivers aren't concerned about the money (the driver isn't usually the one paying for it and the cost of crash damage is relatively small compared to the cost to go racing in the first place) and there isn't a whole lot of risk in being hurt either as cars these days are incredibly safe and even 100mph+ crashes you can usually walk away from unharmed.

    I'm all for strict penalties but only if the game can properly assign blame and only if there is actually something that warrants a penalty. As it is right now the game is penalising you for contact so minor you barely feel it, and more importantly it doesn't assign blame anymore so you get penalised for things that aren't even your fault.

    You also have to remember this is a game and not real life, which means we shouldn't have to put up with things that we do IRL, i.e. having your car wrecked by someone else's mistakes. IRL this can't be avoided because cars aren't indestructible but there's no reason a game can't be designed to minimise the loss to people who aren't at fault and penalise those who are.

    Take a look at the video linked below, it's some examples from yesterdays Nations Cup race of the "awesome" penalty system. Incidents 1 and 3 gave me a 2 second penalty each despite there being basically no contact at all (the first one the contact wasn't even on my screen but on the other players due to lag). The second incident gave me a 6 second penalty and although IRL it would have put me out of the race through no fault of my own but as I said, this is a game where we can set our own rules, so why should we still have to penalise the drivers who aren't at fault?

     
  18. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    You have a lot more manner points to squander in a daily C. Brand's hatch was worth a max of 19 points yesterday at SR.S, while Big Willow topped out at 7 points with clean race bonus. I did 5 races on Big Willow for a net loss of 2 manner points from people hitting me. It doesn't show SR Down all the time someone taps my behind, yet the manner points get deducted anyway. 10 Brand's hatch races netted me 137 manner points total.

    People were far more behaved on Brand's hatch as well. I set a qualifying time of 5 minutes to start last, had no issues to work my way up 7 to 12 places, then I waited the rest of the race out in the pits in lap 11 to get to DR.B. Not really needed for the daily C races as they are usually much better behaved, yet now I feel a lot more confident going into the daily B today. No starting with a penalty every time someone taps me in T1 on nurb GP.

    There was very little contact last night on Brand's hatch, however still plenty penalties doled out in the result screen. There were also people driving themselves off the road if it looked like contact could happen, which is actually better than getting punted. The penalties do lead to actual sportmanship! The worst for me was a 10 sec penalty when someone lost control in front of me and I could not brake fast enough. However once someone slammed on the brakes in front of me to serve a penalty it did not give me a penalty when I bumped him. So perhaps there has been some fine tuning. Ofcourse this penalty serve brake checking needs to go. It was very easy to lose any penalties on pit entry on Brand's hatch. I had 4 sec penalty one time before entering the pit, go slightly slower in the pit chicane entry and it was gone.

    Anyway I'm DR.B again today, now I can see how different it is.
     
  19. zaxs

    zaxs

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    Just bcs of what is @bmxmitch taking about, I'm skipping more and more daily races to even keep/save my DR for some "serious" - competing races!

    I think that some of the players "exploited" new penalty system and using it against highly ranked players.

    Looking my yesterday's penalties, looks like that even the smallest touch from behind gives penalty to unaware, innocent higher ranked player ahead.

    And that is new weapon for fighting positions...

    I would always prefer to lost some positions in the real fight then through new penalty system...

    And never, never "this is just a game" can't be excuse!
    You can't do what ever you want on the internet, against real people.
     
  20. xturboloverx

    xturboloverx

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    Have to admit, I never took into account, that different race would give different manner points. Really interested if you experience a change now being DR B!

    Just another thought: Could it be, the penalty system works differently on different tracks? I'm under the impression, but it might be caused by different mannerpoint scores or me just being more or less experienced on different tracks... opinions?
     
  21. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    The FIA F1500 GT race was kinda messy. I only had 5 minutes to practice and basically learned how to drive the car during qualifying (safely away from everyone else!). Yet do the penalties make it a better race?


    0:50 Tapped from behind, 2 sec
    1:14 Rubbed on the inside while slowing down for the car in front of me, 1 sec
    4:10 Over steering evading car taking grass shortcut, 3.5 sec
    4:14 Getting knocked into wall by car bouncing of other wall, 4 sec
    7:46 Car on the outside cutting in too much, hitting my left rear at the apex, 2 sec
    9:00 Car trying to dive through my inside after he went wide, 4 sec
    10:40 I hit a car braking very early, 3 sec my fault.
    10:46 Hit on inside rear panel in corner, 1 sec
     
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  22. Alfabob46

    Alfabob46

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    I do support the point of this thread and agree with BMXMitch that this system has ruined some of the close racing but I was just trying to point out that it is still possible to have some great close battles even with this system you just have to have a more reserved mindset not all out fight for every corner.

    But I don't get "being rewarded for not racing"?
    Maybe you think letting faster cars pass is not racing?

    I race in daily C and there are mixed pit strategy's at play and if I block I end up slowing myself down over the race distance and possible end up in a worse position come the end of the race.
    Or end up being blasted as a salty driver that blocks and or end up punted.
    How many times do you read on here people ranting about slower drivers blocking and getting penalty's for light taps?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  23. kjeldsen

    kjeldsen

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    1,140
    Easy to overtake for smurfs or scared high ranks using alternative accounts. The rest of the field should be on their personal limit.

    Maybe the thread and others should be changed to penalty system ruins it for the DR S drivers then? How many are there world wide?

    And as has been mentioned many times this patch could be a way for PD to realign the ranks as they want them. S ranks just got a difficulty buff. It will be interesting to see when the next patch arrives, because if they keep it like this that must have been their intentions.
     
  24. Ginger yido

    Ginger yido

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    251
    If they colour coded the penealty time or something, at least you would have an idea of how long you have to scrub the penalty off (then you might be able to pick better spot to take the penalty) At the moment with people slamming in the breaks left right and center its a totally shambles.

    This system totally disrupts the dynamics of the races. add time penalty’s on at the end of the race or limit revs during. And either ditch ghosting or implement it in a way that’s not condusive to creating more penalty’s for otherwise innocent party’s to the original incident.
     
  25. Spurgy 777

    Spurgy 777

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  26. vicbol

    vicbol

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    If penalties were 100% accurate that would be the point. But since you get penalties when another car hits you from the back, when someone blocks you when you have got the position, when someone breaks deliveratedly in front of you... I could keep saying examples... there is nothing close to real life. And I know what I am talking about.
    Only agree that now you have to be more careful to overtake. But the big amount of unfair penalties is something they need to fix.
     
  27. _ApexPredator

    _ApexPredator

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    That's exactly my position as well :) I wholly agree the racing is now going to be less BTCC > more GT Endurance in the higher classes (at the expense of 100% thrills), but maybe that's just how they want it.
    We'll have to adjust a little, or settle into a new home (rating wise).
     
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  28. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    Should be fixed now, reverted to private when I had to verify my you tube account.

    Racing as DR.B is a bit better. I got hit in T1, no penalty, still pushed out and spun around so now I was all the way at the back behind people that didn't know the braking points. So got a penalty for hitting a car braking in a weird spot. Got hit again from behind later on, no penalty. It looked like it was a car getting punted by the car behind him. Still lost 9 SR on that race for those 3 contacts even though it didn't show SR down for the first and last.

    Then a clean race, then I get hit again and punted off the road with 16 SR loss. Less penalties in DR.B, SR hits are the same in SR.S. Penalty amount depends in DR level, SR loss depends on SR level. I guess I should qualify better to get away from the punters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  29. BSDShoes

    BSDShoes

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    Those two dings by JasonHer in first lap costing YOU the penalties was outrageous...
     
  30. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    Letting faster cars pass you is absolutely not racing. That's why back markers are told to pull over. They are not supposed to "race" the leaders. However, when it's for position, if you let someone by you, you are not racing. Hence the term "racing for position". I have never heard of any racers, in any series, ever, get rewarded by his team for being a nice guy and letting faster racers past.

    If you feel that it is still racing, then we should turn off collisions and lap as ghosts.

    Everyone needs to earn their finishing position. That's why they have races. If this were NOT the case, the race would end after the qualifying session. If someone gets a run on you or is faster in one section of the track, that doesn't mean they are deserving of your position.

    Rubens Barichello got Pole position in the '94 Belgian GP because he went out at the end of a rain session and had a dry track. He said to reporters that he woudl move over and let the faster drivers pass. His teammate, Eddie Irvine, and the Jordan team rightfully pulled him aside and told him that he would in no way, shape, or form, pull over for anyone! He was the pole sitter and he earned his position. Everyone else needed to earn there's

    His mindset is what got him the seat at Ferrari. They wanted someone fast who would not race Michael Schumacher.

    Remind me how many F1 World Championships Rubens Barichello has.

    Michael Schumacher never moved over for anyone! How many titles did he get?
     
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