"News Flash" Racing Setups Aren't One Size Fits All

S

SIMTACER808

1
United States
United States
I grew up drive stockcars and so did my entire family and we aren't genius enough to create GT Sport, it's common sense. I was so excited when I completed the campaign mode. I have all of these intricate suspension setups that I worked on for over a year before I even tried sport mode because I am not a gamer and I thought it was "the real racing simulator" like it promoted on the package. So I spend quite a lot of money before I signed up for sport mode. When I race, no matter what it is I take it very seriously, when I built up my notebooks for each car and track (I literally have a library of notebooks with setups , 1 for every track with every car and lap time sheets from doing my own r&d. I thought I was going to be racing "simulated races" career mode got most of the physics right. But sport mode... Really has me feeling like I got screwed over. Everyone has to use the same suspension setup and that is like expecting everyone to take an ink blot test and have the same exact answer. It doesn't work. If Gran Turismo Sport is going to claim to be and I quote them " the real racing simulator" they need to let competitors tune their own suspension to handle their own driving style. They have the BOP and power wise they got it really close. The fixed suspension setup that we are forced to use is going to be absolutely perfect for a few people, but the rest of us " people that want to handle better and wonder why we can't understand why the top 10 list is always the same names every time, it's not us that is failing. Gran Turismo is failing us, the people that buy their products and made them the biggest racing game in the world. I read an interview about why GT Sport didn't make it so we could change a street car into a racecar like the previous version, and they pretty much said the consumers basically aren't smart enough to keep making the game in that fashion. I did an experiment.

Subaru WRX Gr3 with BOP and GT Sports suspension setup we are forced to use and ran 3 laps at Suzuka
Fastest lap.
2:03.207
Slowest
2:04.845



Now I'm only going to adjust the sway bars, spring rate , camber, shocks, and toe angles. Everything else is their setup. Just minor adjustments so I can feel more stable and the result was
Lap 1) 2:03.565
2)2:02.695
3)2:02.210.
So with just minor adjustments I was able to run the second season of 3 laps 4 1/2 seconds faster than the first 3 lap session. Another difference I felt. In the first season I had to really drive hard to get the best result possible. The 2nd session I could actually relax because I didn't need to take the car to the extreme edge of control.

I know I'm not the only on person dealing with this issue. If our cars don't handle how we need them to. Let us my adjustments to the camber, sway bars, springs and toe angle.

It would be better all around. Less crashes,better competition, equal competition, "fair" competition . I'm not asking for down force. Just the option to make small adjustments to the suspension to make the cars truly equal and drivable. There are a few cars that no person can handle. Over half my friends have sold the PS4 and started on iracing.com for the fact that it is embarrassing to be a racecar driver and someone is driving away on a simulation, not cause that person is a better driver but because the way Gran Turismo sets up the car is comfortable for that one person but not for the other 19 people. And what really drives me nuts is I know if I move the sway bar 1 click the car will turn how I like it. And the consumers are the ones that are supposed to like your product and events. I know a lot of people that were obsessed that won't even talk on the phone if they hear it. Just because GT Sport won't let us make a small adjust on a "race car"
 
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Interesting. My subjective meaning is that it would be okay to change differential and suspension setup, but keep gear ratios stock. But, if we could change diff and suspension, people would probably claim that good tuners have an advantage over people that not have a clue to change setup. And than its not the same for everyone.
 
As someone who likes racing and does not have a lot of time, I really like PD stance on tuning. I don't want to google every week for best setup, or tweak that and so on... Start the game-race.

That said I think that the pd should offer something for tuners - be it race with allowed tuning (or even better) time trial challenge with allowed tuning - so there is something for everyone...
 
We had Daily Races that allowed tuning. The last race I tuned, was the MINI '65 race at Tsukuba. That was perfect.

Some players had gears set for acceleration, others set gears for top end, some had slammed suspensions, some ran stock. All set up to how players wanted.

I don't know when we'll ever see that type of race again.
 
Honestly, I prefer the free tuning allowed by the Closed Beta. The default setups are just... funny.


Or at least maybe make Race C a true strategy-type of race, wherein the best tuning and endurance strategy combo would prevail.
 
SIMTACER808
THE FIXED SUSPENSION SETUP THAT WE ARE FORCED TO USE IS GOING TO BE ABSOLUTELY PERFECT FOR A FEW PEOPLE, BUT THE REST OF US " PEOPLE THAT WANT TO HANDLE BETTER AND WONDER WHY WE CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE TOP 10 LIST IS ALWAYS THE SAME NAMES EVERY TIME
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Did I misunderstand what those two sections I bolded mean together, or are you actually claiming that the fast people are only fast because they like the stock settings? Because if it’s the latter “NEWS FLASH”, the stock settings make the cars have safe, beginner friendly understeer, and the fastest people are the ones who overcome that the best.
 
SIMTACER808
"SIMULATED RACES" CAREER MODE GOT MOST OF THE PHYSICS RIGHT. BUT SPORT MODE... REALLY HAS ME FEELING LIKE I GOT SCREWED OVER. EVERYONE HAS TO USE THE SAME SUSPENSION SETUP AND THAT IS LIKE EXPECTING EVERYONE TO TAKE AN INK BLOT TEST AND HAVE THE SAME EXACT ANSWER. IT DOESN'T WORK. IF GRAN TURISMO SPORT IS GOING TO CLAIM TO BE AND I QUOTE THEM " THE REAL RACING SIMULATOR" THEY NEED TO LET COMPETITORS TUNE THEIR OWN SUSPENSION TO HANDLE THEIR OWN DRIVING STYLE. THEY HAVE THE B.O.P. AND POWER WISE THEY GOT IT REALLY CLOSE. THE FIXED SUSPENSION SETUP THAT WE ARE FORCED TO USE IS GOING TO BE ABSOLUTELY PERFECT FOR A FEW PEOPLE, BUT THE REST OF US " PEOPLE THAT WANT TO HANDLE BETTER AND WONDER WHY WE CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE TOP 10 LIST IS ALWAYS THE SAME NAMES EVERY TIME, IT'S NOT US THAT IS FAILING. GRAN TURISMO IS FAILING US, THE PEOPLE THAT BUY THEIR PRODUCTS AND MADE THEM THE BIGGEST RACING GAME IN THE WORLD. I READ AN INTERVIEW ABOUT WHY GT SPORT DIDN'T MAKE IT SO WE COULD CHANGE A STREET CAR INTO A RACECAR LIKE THE PREVIOUS VERSION, AND THEY PRETTY MUCH SAID THE CONSUMERS BASICALLY AREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO KEEP MAKING THE GAME IN THAT FASHION. I DID AN EXPERIMENT.

SUBARU WRX GR3 WITH BOP AND GT SPORTS SUSPENSION SETUP WE ARE FORCED TO USE AND RAN 3 LAPS AT SUZUKA
FASTEST LAP.
2:03.207
SLOWEST
2:04.845




NOW I'M ONLY GOING TO ADJUST THE SWAY BARS, SPRING RATE , CAMBER, SHOCKS, AND TOE ANGLES. EVERYTHING ELSE IS THEIR SETUP. JUST MINOR ADJUSTMENTS SO I CAN FEEL MORE STABLE AND THE RESULT WAS
LAP 1) 2:03.565
2)2:02.695
3)2:02.210.
SO WITH JUST MINOR ADJUSTMENTS I WAS ABLE TO RUN THE SECOND SEASON OF 3 LAPS 4 1/2 SECONDS FASTER THAN THE FIRST 3 LAP SESSION. ANOTHER DIFFERENCE I FELT. IN THE FIRST SEASON I HAD TO REALLY DRIVE HARD TO GET THE BEST RESULT POSSIBLE. THE 2ND SESSION I COULD ACTUALLY RELAX BECAUSE I DIDN'T NEED TO TAKE THE CAR TO THE EXTREME EDGE OF CONTROL.

I KNOW IM NOT THE ONLY ON PERSON DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE. IF OUR CARS DON'T HANDLE HOW WE NEED THEM TO. LET US MY ADJUSTMENTS TO THE CAMBER, SWAY BARS, SPRINGS AND TOE ANGLE.

IT WOULD BE BETTER ALL AROUND. LESS CRASHES,BETTER COMPETITION, EQUAL COMPETITION, "FAIR" COMPETITION . IM NOT ASKING FOR DOWN FORCE. JUST THE OPTION TO MAKE SMALL ADJUSTMENTS TO THE SUSPENSION TO MAKE THE CARS TRULY EQUAL AND DRIVABLE. THERE ARE A FEW CARS THAT NO PERSON CAN HANDLE. OVER HALF MY FRIENDS HAVE SOLD THE PS4 AND STARTED ON IRACING.COM FOR THE FACT THAT IT IS EMBARRASSING TO BE A RACECAR DRIVER AND SOMEONE IS DRIVING AWAY ON A SIMULATION, NOT CAUSE THAT PERSON IS A BETTER DRIVER BUT BECAUSE THE WAY GRAN TURISMO SETS UP THE CAR IS COMFORTABLE FOR THAT ONE PERSON BUT NOT FOR THE OTHER 19 PEOPLE. AND WHAT REALLY DRIVES ME NUTS IS I KNOW IF I MOVE THE SWAY BAR 1 CLICK THE CAR WILL TURN HOW I LIKE IT. AND THE CONSUMERS ARE THE ONES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO LIKE YOUR PRODUCT AND EVENTS. I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE OBSESSED THAT WON'T EVEN TALK ON THE PHONE IF THEY HEAR IT. JUST BECAUSE GT SPORT WON'T LET US MAKE A SMALL ADJUST ON A "RACE CAR"
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(and yes, I just pasted that mess into Word, changed the case, and pasted it back, with a couple of corrections for poor grammar)
 
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If Sport mode allowed tuning, don't you think the fast drivers would drop times equally (or more) than the average tuner?
If you want to make a statement about how tuning makes you a better driver, I would suggest running more than 3 laps to get a bit of consistency in your lap times. If you would have run 10 laps on the stock setup you more than likely would have dropped to your tuned time or below.
 
The 'I'm not as fast as the best players so there must be a problem with game' thread.

Tuning wouldn't make a difference, you would still see the same guys at the top because they are that good.

Good drivers adapt to the conditions (setups included) better. Don't be bitter about it, just go as fast as you can and let sport mode match you with similarly talented people.
 
Personally, I'd love to have suspension tuning available for the FIA and Daily Races. It would mimic more of a real racing team feel, determined to get the most out of both car & driver, as well as the feel from previous GTs. However, the whole point of PD setting up these strict-setup races are to cancel the car's performance and handling out of the equation and see who is the best driver. Like Dready1984 said,
Dready1984
Good drivers adapt to the conditions (setups included) better.
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plus as previous posts have stated, if tuning is available to all drivers, then who is to say that the gap would be decreased?
 
I prefer no tuning for the most part, as I am more of a plug in and play type of player.

I find the biggest issue is that lobbies are an unstructured mess. Having some lobbies with a more robust structure/schedule (like sport mode, without the SR and DR dependencies) could work for people wanting variety considering there are many more people using lobbies.

Famine

(and yes, I just pasted that mess into Word, changed the case, and pasted it back, with a couple of corrections for poor grammar)
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LOUUUD NOISES!
 
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absbrain
As someone who likes racing and does not have a lot of time, I really like PD stance on tuning.
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Coming from having spent the last 6 months mainly playing Forza Horizon 4, I think there is a lot to be said for the fixed spec racing in GT Sport. FH4 is, to a huge extent, a tuning contest not a driving contest. I've gradually got better and better at tuning cars in FH4, and it makes a huge difference. I recently saw some settings in a youtuber's video, and they can only be described as comedy settings with no real world relevance, they are basically just exploits of the physics engine. Once I became aware of those comedy settings I was able to tune every car very quickly to be extremely fast. I don't think it's good to have race performance so heavily dependent on people acquiring that sort of knowledge.

At the same time, I do agree that one tune doesn't work equally well for everyone. In particular, I've found that the fastest drivers like cars tuned heavily towards oversteer, and they have the skill to respond so fast, and make their inputs so accurate in the first place, that they can keep the car under control at all times. So I could take a tune in FH4 by someone who was number 1 on the leaderboard, and be unable to keep it sufficiently under control to go fast. If I made my own tune of the same car, I could tweak it to have less oversteer, and for me, it would be faster, but for the more skilled driver it would be slower, as they'd lose turning speed. There were also people for whom even my tunes had too much oversteer.

The other problem with making it a tuning contest is it takes a huge amount of time to work through all the variables. For a given daily race, you have to not only test every car in a group, but also work out an optimal tuning setup for each one. How much work is that? Each time you make a change you're going to need to do maybe 10 laps to try to reliably assess the car's performance vs variations in your driving. Let's call it 2.5 hours per car, 27 Gr.4 cars, so 67.5 hours. They're up for 7 days, so 9.64 hours per day to finally have the best possible setup just before the race changes to something else. That would be a bit mad IMO.

You do have some choice in that different cars handle differently, so you can choose the Gr.4 car, for example, that best matches your driving style.

For the one car races, it would make more sense, but I think I'd probably still find it a bit frustrating always wondering if I'm being out-driven, or out-tuned. If they did allow tuning, I'd want tunes to be easily downloadable from a full leaderboard, not just a top 10 list.

I don't think tuning would eliminate many crashes, because most collisions seem to occur simply because it's hard to overtake cleanly in the game if the player in front is trying to not be passed. E.g. many players won't stick to one line, they'll place themselves in the middle, then move across to block you when you go for one side or the other. Or they'll dive towards the apex of a hairpin at a speed that is too fast, knowing they'll be slowed down by the impact with the car in front, and will come out ahead of the car they've hit. These tactics seem to be common even in races that only have SR S drivers, and aren't the result of tuning problems.
 
breeminator
Coming from having spent the last 6 months mainly playing Forza Horizon 4, I think there is a lot to be said for the fixed spec racing in GT Sport. FH4 is, to a huge extent, a tuning contest not a driving contest. I've gradually got better and better at tuning cars in FH4, and it makes a huge difference. I recently saw some settings in a youtuber's video, and they can only be described as comedy settings with no real world relevance, they are basically just exploits of the physics engine. Once I became aware of those comedy settings I was able to tune every car very quickly to be extremely fast. I don't think it's good to have race performance so heavily dependent on people acquiring that sort of knowledge.
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Ironically enough, when GT Sport launched, tuning was allowed in Daily Races and it was the same exact story. There were tunes that exploited the TCS aid and allowed for unrealistic amounts of rotation, and these people were untouchable.

PD had their plate full already with BoP balancing. No way they could constantly be tweaking the tuning system as well.
 
I agree with the gist of this thread. I like doing my own setups and having the car behave how I like, it adds a little more depth to the game which also makes me play more. Feels like PD are really missing out on building a tuning community within their game. Setups should be available to download in the discover section just like liveries imo.

The top guys will still be at the top with or without tuning though.
 
Dready1984
The 'I'm not as fast as the best players so there must be a problem with game' thread.

Tuning wouldn't make a difference, you would still see the same guys at the top because they are that good.

Good drivers adapt to the conditions (setups included) better. Don't be bitter about it, just go as fast as you can and let sport mode match you with similarly talented people.
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It's not just talent, it's perfecting abilities especially through practice and experience .

Tuning would definitely make a difference for me. I'm driving a car that was set up for somebody else so it's much less enjoyable.

If driving was more enjoyable , I'd practice more. If I practiced more, I'd have better results.
 
Sander 001
I'm driving a car that was set up for somebody else so it's much less enjoyable.
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No, you're a driving a car that has been setup for everyone. Unfortunately we don't get given 3 cars on 3 tracks which are perfect for every player each week.

And as you say, practice and experience helps. I'm sure the top guys practice a hell of a lot more than I do, so why shouldn't someone who puts in the effort reap the rewards?

So maybe, practice more with cars you dislike, get better with them and the game (because that's what it is) becomes more enjoyable as a whole.

Opening up tuning will just allow the top guys to go even faster.
 
SIMTACER808
I grew up drive stockcars and so did my entire family and we aren't genius enough to create GT Sport, it's common sense. I was so excited when I completed the campaign mode. I have all of these intricate suspension setups that I worked on for over a year before I even tried sport mode because I am not a gamer and I thought it was "the real racing simulator" like it promoted on the package. So I spend quite a lot of money before I signed up for sport mode. When I race, no matter what it is I take it very seriously, when I built up my notebooks for each car and track (I literally have a library of notebooks with setups , 1 for every track with every car and lap time sheets from doing my own r&d. I thought I was going to be racing "simulated races" career mode got most of the physics right. But sport mode... Really has me feeling like I got screwed over. Everyone has to use the same suspension setup and that is like expecting everyone to take an ink blot test and have the same exact answer. It doesn't work. If Gran Turismo Sport is going to claim to be and I quote them " the real racing simulator" they need to let competitors tune their own suspension to handle their own driving style. They have the BOP and power wise they got it really close. The fixed suspension setup that we are forced to use is going to be absolutely perfect for a few people, but the rest of us " people that want to handle better and wonder why we can't understand why the top 10 list is always the same names every time, it's not us that is failing. Gran Turismo is failing us, the people that buy their products and made them the biggest racing game in the world. I read an interview about why GT Sport didn't make it so we could change a street car into a racecar like the previous version, and they pretty much said the consumers basically aren't smart enough to keep making the game in that fashion. I did an experiment.

Subaru WRX Gr3 with BOP and GT Sports suspension setup we are forced to use and ran 3 laps at Suzuka
Fastest lap.
2:03.207
Slowest
2:04.845



Now I'm only going to adjust the sway bars, spring rate , camber, shocks, and toe angles. Everything else is their setup. Just minor adjustments so I can feel more stable and the result was
Lap 1) 2:03.565
2)2:02.695
3)2:02.210.
So with just minor adjustments I was able to run the second season of 3 laps 4 1/2 seconds faster than the first 3 lap session. Another difference I felt. In the first season I had to really drive hard to get the best result possible. The 2nd session I could actually relax because I didn't need to take the car to the extreme edge of control.

I know I'm not the only on person dealing with this issue. If our cars don't handle how we need them to. Let us my adjustments to the camber, sway bars, springs and toe angle.

It would be better all around. Less crashes,better competition, equal competition, "fair" competition . I'm not asking for down force. Just the option to make small adjustments to the suspension to make the cars truly equal and drivable. There are a few cars that no person can handle. Over half my friends have sold the PS4 and started on iracing.com for the fact that it is embarrassing to be a racecar driver and someone is driving away on a simulation, not cause that person is a better driver but because the way Gran Turismo sets up the car is comfortable for that one person but not for the other 19 people. And what really drives me nuts is I know if I move the sway bar 1 click the car will turn how I like it. And the consumers are the ones that are supposed to like your product and events. I know a lot of people that were obsessed that won't even talk on the phone if they hear it. Just because GT Sport won't let us make a small adjust on a "race car"
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Well, I can understand what you are saying. I am long time online racer , I use a wheel, hope you do too. otherwise you're argument is pretty funny, lol. But in all seriousness the way sport mode is setup there are a few ways to tune you're car for sure. They offer on the fly brake balance adjustment, that is huge and I for one utilize it always, as in, typically, forward brake balance creates a tighter car(understeer) and more rear brake creates looser car(oversteer) . You can make you're car handle better that way, and since it's for all types of racer's they even offer traction control and other aids to help if you are so inclined. The reason the same drivers are in the top 10 all the time is because they adapt and use what's available and they are just plain fast. Even if you had tuning available it would still be the same people because they are that good, and the gap back to you would probably be even greater. It's like you said not every one will be able to drive the same setup, but keep digging and you will find the track/car combo that works for you as they change weekly(miss the daily changes) and most importantly, put in the time! Figure out how to drive the car, laps my friend, lots of laps!
 
Dready1984
No, you're a driving a car that has been setup for everyone. Unfortunately we don't get given 3 cars on 3 tracks which are perfect for every player each week.

And as you say, practice and experience helps. I'm sure the top guys practice a hell of a lot more than I do, so why shouldn't someone who puts in the effort reap the rewards?

So maybe, practice more with cars you dislike, get better with them and the game (because that's what it is) becomes more enjoyable as a whole.

Opening up tuning will just allow the top guys to go even faster.
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No, there's no such thing as an ideal setup that works universally perfect for everybody.

When racing against top players with open tuning, the gap is much, much smaller.
 
Sander 001
No, there's no such thing as an ideal setup that works universally perfect for everybody.

When racing against top players with open tuning, the gap is much, much smaller.
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I agree, there's is no setup that works for everyone, and I never said there was. I said the setup is for everyone, and by that I meant fixed.

Better drivers adapt to the fixed setups we are given. I'm sure they spend far more time practicing and learning to adapt to a less than perfect setup than I do. That's why they are at top most weeks and I'm not.

But I quite like having a level playing field, it's clearer to see how much slower or faster I am under the same conditions. I can load up their ghost lap and try to emulate them, without having to worry if my setup is what's holding me back. So once I feel I've hit my limit, I'll load up their ghost to see where I can gain time. There are some weeks where I can gain a second or more just by watching their replays. Using their replays as a learning tool, I feel, makes me a better driver.

Opening up tuning will undoubtedly allow some people to go faster. But allowing the the fastest drivers to tune a car to their liking will just make them even faster than they are now.

If you really want tuning in online races, just join an open lobby, club or league which allows it. Sport mode isn't the only thing GT Sport has to offer.

I have nothing else to say on this.
 
Dready1984
I agree, there's is no setup that works for everyone, and I never said there was. I said the setup is for everyone, and by that I meant fixed.

Better drivers adapt to the fixed setups we are given. I'm sure they spend far more time practicing and learning to adapt to a less than perfect setup than I do. That's why they are at top most weeks and I'm not.

But I quite like having a level playing field, it's clearer to see how much slower or faster I am under the same conditions. I can load up their ghost lap and try to emulate them, without having to worry if my setup is what's holding me back. So once I feel I've hit my limit, I'll load up their ghost to see where I can gain time. There are some weeks where I can gain a second or more just by watching their replays. Using their replays as a learning tool, I feel, makes me a better driver.

Opening up tuning will undoubtedly allow some people to go faster. But allowing the the fastest drivers to tune a car to their liking will just make them even faster than they are now.

If you really want tuning in online races, just join an open lobby, club or league which allows it. Sport mode isn't the only thing GT Sport has to offer.

I have nothing else to say on this.
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I agree mostly with what you said but we should clarify that yes the top players will get faster with open tuning but the delta to everybody else will be smaller. The reason for this is that top players already reach theoretical maximum lap times while others have more room for improvement.
 
Accessibility and balancing performance is what it is - that simple. Trying to give as level playingfield for different cars and players as possible. Dont get me wrong - id love to drive with good setup instead and i love tuning, but i for one do not have the time needed to compete with tuning. I have just few hours a week to play, and i need the game to be pickup the controller and go..

Lobby racing and leagues by player groups are the places for tuning.
 
Sander 001
I agree mostly with what you said but we should clarify that yes the top players will get faster with open tuning but the delta to everybody else will be smaller. The reason for this is that top players already reach theoretical maximum lap times while others have more room for improvement.
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More likely the delta increases as the top players know how to exploit the physics engine whilst the average punter gets completely lost in the setup menu and either makes it worse or keeps it at default.
 
mthomas_95
More likely the delta increases as the top players know how to exploit the physics engine whilst the average punter gets completely lost in the setup menu and either makes it worse or keeps it at default.
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That argument only works if you believe that the average Gran Turismo player doesn’t recognize that lower lap times are better. I know we’re a stupid bunch but not that stupid! :lol:
 

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