"News Flash" Racing Setups Aren't One Size Fits All

[Pigems]

These threads are always so all or nothing, just make one of the 3 daily races tuning friendly and be done with it...

But which one do you allow it in? A is the Beginner race, B is the Intermediate and C is the Advanced, well basically anyways. So which one do you alter to allow tuning?

I think PD wants everyone to be on the same level, hence the no customization.
Heck, they even got rid of H pattern manual because it was giving some a miniscule advantage.

The shifter advantage wasn’t minuscule at all, it was almost a second a lap in some cases. Plus it was the shifter being used at the same time as the paddles that created the major problem, not the shifter by itself.

 

[Groundfish]

Wow. So many good thoughts from all sides...
I completely agree that not having tuning is not like real racing period. One of the best things about real Motorsport is being a bit smarter than the other guy. That is obvious.
However sim racing is different from the real world. In an online environment imo the fair thing thing is fixed setup. To address the point about just having one make events, I could never support that.
My favorite thing is racing against other cars and I feel for gr3 and 4 they have done a good job of balancing things.
As to the setups for say gr3...I can really only effectively race the merc or vette at a s and up. I’m pretty dangerous in the vette, but I am rubbish in say the Ferrari Lamborghini and others.
I mean I have a lot of time in this game and the cars handle so differently that I just keep going back to vette, because I’ve learned it. I can’t drive the r8 for anything other than time trial.
All I can say is it’s so fun to battle vette vs r8 or 911 or gtr. My most fun by far is because the cars are so different.
That said n class bop is a mess, but I don’t really run those much beyond n100 alpine or n200 86.
Controller vs wheel it’s just awesome to race knowing there’s no tuning imo.
I totally agree I don’t wanna get crushed because someone found a tuning hack.
Plus talking to a real life racer who did iracing some his opinion was the tuning in stock cars was comically far from what’s done irl.
I see both sides to the issue tho.

 

[Pigems]

The only FIA-sanctioned championship IRL that uses fixed tuning is a Kart series, where every driver uses a spec kart.

I do love when people say that the setups are equal. Yeah, maybe literally in the settings sheet, but they definitely aren't equal on track. Every time there's a Gr.1/Gr.3/Gr.4 weekly, or even a Nations version of a Gr. race, there's always one car dominating the time sheets. It was kind of laughable when the Nations Gr.3 race recently on Brands Hatch was dominated by 911 RSRs. Yeah, real equal alright. The only time everyone is inherently equal on track is when there's only one car to choose from and one setup.

The idea of multiple setups to choose from, or a race engineer being implemented to help with setups are both great ideas for Sport Mode. It would certainly add diversity to these races instead of it being metas, which is why I never touch races that aren't one-makes anymore.

So you like one make races but don’t like other races being raced as one makes?
Also, Why does everyone hate the meta? I like to drive my nails with a hammer, feel free to try a screwdriver or another tool if you like but it just doesn’t work as well. You don’t even see the car in bumper cam anyways, which is the best/fastest view to use, so the car being used is basically irrelevant. It’s all in your head.

 

[Groundfish]

So you like one make races but don’t like other races being raced as one makes?
Also, Why does everyone hate the meta? I like to drive my nails with a hammer, feel free to try a screwdriver or another tool if you like but it just doesn’t work as well. You don’t even see the car in bumper cam anyways, which is the best/fastest view to use, so the car being used is basically irrelevant. It’s all in your head.

YOUVE GONE TOO FAR SIR.
CLEARLY COCKPIT IS BEST LOL

 

[Pigems]

YOUVE GONE TOO FAR SIR.
CLEARLY COCKPIT IS BEST LOL

I usually do.

 

[TetsuKobura]

So you like one make races but don’t like other races being raced as one makes?
Also, Why does everyone hate the meta? I like to drive my nails with a hammer, feel free to try a screwdriver or another tool if you like but it just doesn’t work as well. You don’t even see the car in bumper cam anyways, which is the best/fastest view to use, so the car being used is basically irrelevant. It’s all in your head.

I like one-makes because unlike Gr.1/2/3/4 it’s actually equal and enjoyable. The problem I have is whenever there’s a clear meta car that’s without a doubt faster than everything else on a certain track. Tuning tiny little things would actually fix that so any car could be competitive anywhere.

With fixed tuning, that nullifies the opportunity to make the cars closer together, and then you end up with extremely popular manufacturers like Porsche in Manu Cup and unpopular manufacturers like Alfa Romeo.

 

[Mr616]

This discussion wasn't 'done to death' in GT, GT2, GT3, GT4, GT5 or GT6, so I see no chance that it will be done to death in GTS simply because some think it should be.

Not got time to reply properly, sorry.

GT1-6 did not have a competitive sport mode.

I raced in leagues from 5 through to 6 with tuning. I can tune and tune pretty well. All that happened is physics would be "gamed" exploits found (trans flip, reverse camber, reverse ride height), or car quirks could be tuned out to make nearly any car handle the same as another.

If PD ever get BOP right you should have loose, grip and neutral feel inherent in the car you pick. Different cars, different characteristics.

I good driver can drive any car to the limit. Most people don't even know how they want the car to feel, or understand that to have more of one thing, takes away from the other. Not to mention the time taken to refine a tune.

All tuning would do, is widen the skill gap. In the leagues I raced in, tuning never got the back field closer to the front.

Imo the bottom line is tuning would be harder to balance. If BOP can do its job properly, there should be a car for every driving style and tuning would not be required.

I've been away for a bit to. Sorry to kinda come back and barge in..... I get your points. I just disagree. Not kicking off or anything

 

[Pigems]

I like one-makes because unlike Gr.1/2/3/4 it’s actually equal and enjoyable. The problem I have is whenever there’s a clear meta car that’s without a doubt faster than everything else on a certain track. Tuning tiny little things would actually fix that so any car could be competitive anywhere.

With fixed tuning, that nullifies the opportunity to make the cars closer together, and then you end up with extremely popular manufacturers like Porsche in Manu Cup and unpopular manufacturers like Alfa Romeo.

I can completely understand the argument for tuning in the Manufactures series, because the choice of tracks in that championship could theoretically give certain manufacturers advantages over others, big ones in some cases. In theory it makes sense there to allow the cars to be tuned to give all manufacturers a better chance at a title. So we’re in agreement there.

But in Sport Mode I just wanna race. I don’t wanna spend hours fine tuning cars, I could care less what digital depiction of a car is behind my camera view. Heck, I’d race shopping carts if there was someone to race them against. Why does it really matter if your using the meta or another car tuned to do the same thing? Think about it, Once car B is tuned to match car A(the meta), car B just becomes another meta does it not? It just looks and sounds different on the TV screen.

 

[Mr616]

Just to add, I'm putting this issue at PDs door. If they actually took care to tune the cars to the best of their ability and BOP'd them accordingly, we probably wouldn't have threads like these.

Some cars should be more difficult to drive on the limit than others, but they should not be hard to drive. The base tunes on a lot of cars should be improved by PD imo.

 

[graveltrap]

But which one do you allow it in? A is the Beginner race, B is the Intermediate and C is the Advanced, well basically anyways. So which one do you alter to allow tuning?

Cycle through each race, start with A and change it on a weekly basis.

 

[TetsuKobura]

I can completely understand the argument for tuning in the Manufactures series, because the choice of tracks in that championship could theoretically give certain manufacturers advantages over others, big ones in some cases. In theory it makes sense there to allow the cars to be tuned to give all manufacturers a better chance at a title. So we’re in agreement there.

But in Sport Mode I just wanna race. I don’t wanna spend hours fine tuning cars, I could care less what digital depiction of a car is behind my camera view. Heck, I’d race shopping carts if there was someone to race them against. Why does it really matter if your using the meta or another car tuned to do the same thing? Think about it, Once car B is tuned to match car A(the meta), car B just becomes another meta does it not? It just looks and sounds different on the TV screen.

For the record, I have zero problem with SM having fixed tuning, but only when the races actually are changing daily. However, when they’re there for multiple days, especially with the same stale combos like the Scirocco Gr.4 or some other gift garage car at, say, Maggiore Center, it just becomes boring and makes me not want to ever touch these weeklies.

The main problem I think with why people hate tuning was because in late October 2017, Gr.4 was dominated by the GTR Gr.4, so people said that tuning made the cars horribly unbalanced, but what was failed to be mentioned was how the classes were horribly unbalanced BoP-wise to begin with. Now the cars are somewhat more close together, but they definitely aren’t on equal ground because some stock setups on certain cars make it atrocious compared to others which make it really stable.

 

[fastone371]

Interesting. My subjective meaning is that it would be okay to change differential and suspension setup, but keep gear ratios stock. But, if we could change diff and suspension, people would probably claim that good tuners have an advantage over people that not have a clue to change setup. And than its not the same for everyone.

If you want to make it "the same for everyone" then limit the practice laps and amount of races that can be run in the daily races. Since i have a full time job i cant spend 10 hours a day playing GT like some people do so I guess that even the way it currently is its not "the same for everyone". It makes it easy for me to claim that I am not on the leader boards because I cant invest enough time by the same token as people complaining that they need to spend time tuning a car if it were permitted.

No, you're a driving a car that has been setup for everyone. Unfortunately we don't get given 3 cars on 3 tracks which are perfect for every player each week.

And as you say, practice and experience helps. I'm sure the top guys practice a hell of a lot more than I do, so why shouldn't someone who puts in the effort reap the rewards?

So maybe, practice more with cars you dislike, get better with them and the game (because that's what it is) becomes more enjoyable as a whole.

Opening up tuning will just allow the top guys to go even faster.

I disagree completely and I think if were to research this you would find that you are way off base. Just like in the real world there are people that prefer a car to be neutral, to oversteer, and to understeer and they will have all sorts of ways to accomplish these things based on how they want the car to feel and their driving style. If you go to your local track, especially an oval track and started asking guys what will work and what wont you will have guys claim that certain things just flat out will not work yet someone else is doing exactly that and probably going very fast doing so. In GTS Im sure that if tuning were allowed you would have people gravitating to PD's default set up and others on each extreme.

 

[Dready1984]

I disagree completely and I think if were to research this you would find that you are way off base. Just like in the real world there are people that prefer a car to be neutral, to oversteer, and to understeer and they will have all sorts of ways to accomplish these things based on how they want the car to feel and their driving style. If you go to your local track, especially an oval track and started asking guys what will work and what wont you will have guys claim that certain things just flat out will not work yet someone else is doing exactly that and probably going very fast doing so. In GTS Im sure that if tuning were allowed you would have people gravitating to PD's default set up and others on each extreme.

I don't disagree with you, I'm no tuner, but I have a good idea of how to setup and change car characteristics in GT Sport.
But you need to read my other posts. For the second time, I didn't mean 'set up for everyone' as in it fits everyone's driving style. I meant setup for everyone as in its a fixed setup which everyone has to use.

The sport mode races change every week, eventually one will come up which fits your driving style (and I hope to see you all at the top of the leader boards when it does). Until then you have a few options.

1.Practice and adapt your driving style to learn how to control cars which are outside of your comfort zone (which I feel makes you a better all round driver)

2. Play in a open lobby which allows tuning

3. Play something else

It's that simple.

I am out, for the second time.

 

[The Cake]

If you want to make it "the same for everyone" then limit the practice laps and amount of races that can be run in the daily races. Since i have a full time job i cant spend 10 hours a day playing GT like some people do so I guess that even the way it currently is its not "the same for everyone". It makes it easy for me to claim that I am not on the leader boards because I cant invest enough time by the same token as people complaining that they need to spend time tuning a car if it were permitted.


That sounds like an awesome idea, at least for the fia races. You join in, u know what car you should drive, but not which track, 15 min warm up and practice, 15 min qualification. 25 minutes race.

Its not equal for everyone, cause the people that have driven most on the game know every track better than people that havent driven every track and so on. But I guess its more fair for everyone, due to people practicing for several hours on a combination and other people havent got the time.

My guess its never gonna hapend, to complicated for pd, but on dirt rally 2 we dont get to know all the stages before entering weekly and monthly events..

 

[The Cake]

If you want to make it "the same for everyone" then limit the practice laps and amount of races that can be run in the daily races. Since i have a full time job i cant spend 10 hours a day playing GT like some people do so I guess that even the way it currently is its not "the same for everyone". It makes it easy for me to claim that I am not on the leader boards because I cant invest enough time by the same token as people complaining that they need to spend time tuning a car if it were permitted.



I disagree completely and I think if were to research this you would find that you are way off base. Just like in the real world there are people that prefer a car to be neutral, to oversteer, and to understeer and they will have all sorts of ways to accomplish these things based on how they want the car to feel and their driving style. If you go to your local track, especially an oval track and started asking guys what will work and what wont you will have guys claim that certain things just flat out will not work yet someone else is doing exactly that and probably going very fast doing so. In GTS Im sure that if tuning were allowed you would have people gravitating to PD's default set up and others on each extreme.

That sounds like an awesome idea, at least for the fia races. You join in, u know what car you should drive, but not which track, 15 min warm up and practice, 15 min qualification. 25 minutes race.

Its not equal for everyone, cause the people that have driven most on the game know every track better than people that havent driven every track and so on. But I guess its more fair for everyone, due to people practicing for several hours on a combination and other people havent got the time.

My guess its never gonna hapend, to complicated for pd, but on dirt rally 2 we dont get to know all the stages before entering weekly and monthly events..

 

[TetsuKobura]

For the second time, I didn't mean 'set up for everyone' as in it fits everyone's driving style. I meant setup for everyone as in its a fixed setup which everyone has to use.

The sport mode races change every week, eventually one will come up which fits your driving style (and I hope to see you all at the top of the leader boards when it does). Until then you have a few options.

1.Practice and adapt your driving style to learn how to control cars which are outside of your comfort zone (which I feel makes you a better all round driver)

2. Play in a open lobby which allows tuning

3. Play something else

It's that simple.

I am out, for the second time.

I think you need to read the other side's argument in this thread, because you're clearly missing the points being made. One of them being how the fixed setup on certain cars actually makes them so much of a hassle that hardly anyone touches them, or for the manufacturer at general in the Manu Cup, whilst on other cars makes them a completely stable machine, thus making it a popular choice. The results are the same, in that the leaderboard and races in general are usually dominated by one car. A good example is this week's RBR Gr.3 in the Americas region, where a majority of the spots are the R8 LMS. I'm still not sure why people are so ignorant to the idea of tuning in even just one of the races. The cars are far more balanced now than they were in 2017, and tuning would prevent a meta from dominating most of the spots in every single race.

 

[mirial]

These threads are always so all or nothing, just make one of the 3 daily races tuning friendly and be done with it...

They would obtain additional data that way as well. To the best of my knowledge, there has only been one daily Race C which ran for a week shortly after release which didn't seem to create any problems so it's always a yawn for me whenever I check every event where the settings are fixed.

 

[Mr616]

They would obtain additional data that way as well. To the best of my knowledge, there has only been one daily Race C which ran for a week shortly after release which didn't seem to create any problems so it's always a yawn for me whenever I check every event where the settings are fixed.

The FIA race which had open tuning had the least amount of participants if I remember correctly.

PD need to improve the tune of some cars.

 

[TetsuKobura]

They would obtain additional data that way as well. To the best of my knowledge, there has only been one daily Race C which ran for a week shortly after release which didn't seem to create any problems so it's always a yawn for me whenever I check every event where the settings are fixed.

Normally, the only time PD ever allows tuning anymore is during an N100 spec car or N400. It’s quite dumb because N400 becomes a Porsche 911 vs. Ferrari F40/50 vs. Ford GT40 Mark I race. There was one week where race C with tuning was Gr.1 @ Sarthe, but I couldn’t race that week unfortunately.

 

[FPV MIC]

....and tuning would prevent a meta from dominating most of the spots in every single race.

This is where you're wrong, there will always be a meta car, and in some cases it will make the meta even stronger. For example on longer, fast circuits it's always the car with the most straight line speed that's the meta, but it normally doesn't turn well. Tuning will allow the meta to also be able to turn (and be stable) while the other cars won't gain speed because of the BoP, so the one advantage the handling cars had is now gone. Many of us went through this type of scenario in the earlier games, in Time Trials, Lobby racing and Leagues.

I don't mind the idea of tuning in one of the races at all, but I think it would have to be a tyre wear race. This might stop some of the most outrageous types of tunes being effective.

Ideally (for me) would be the inclusion of GT6 style Time Trials (with full leader boards) and SM Race D... both with tuning.

 

[The Cake]

In gt 6 and 5, why was the antiroll bars set to 3-3 or 5-5?
In gt sport, why is every car set up with 7 front and 4 in the back in terms of antiroll bars?
Why is every car set up like that?

My wish is that they could set the anti roll bars to 4 in the front and 7 in the back, maybe it wouldnt be "the real understeering simulator" anymore.
Its the same story with the differential setting, why 40 on every car? Some of the cars i N class maybe have 35 or 25. But im just wondering, in real life, specially in circuit racing, would you have a locked or a more open differential setup? My guess is a more open setup, less surprising snap oversteers moments.

But what do I know, I have never driven a car on a track day or tuned a car, the only experience I have is drifting my bmw in the snow here in Norway

 

[Veinz]

They would obtain additional data that way as well. To the best of my knowledge, there has only been one daily Race C which ran for a week shortly after release which didn't seem to create any problems so it's always a yawn for me whenever I check every event where the settings are fixed.

There was a GR1 race at La Sarthe last fall that allowed tuning. The R18 was the meta but I used a tuned TS050. Despite it's short comings that could not be fixed with the setup, it was a definite improvement over the default setup and made it more competitive against other A/A+ players in the meta R18. This is why I like tuning in Sport Mode.

Best part is I did not spend hours tuning that thing, I did not have the time for it that week. I only did a quick search on this very site and found a good setup by @praiano63. It literally took me 5 mins to find it on my phone while waiting in the menus between sport mode races.