Nissan vs. Toyota

[mafia_boy]

The past is irrelevant. I'm talking of the present. and presently, Nissan are staying true to making affordable value for money sportcars and Toyota are just ... not. maybe the ft-86 will change that, but for now. Nissan are the winners.

So you ignored what I said in the first line, clever. I'll requote it just so you can read it again.

In 2009 I would agree with you,

Typical Nissan fanboys, never reading the whole statement. And can't admit that they haven't built as many good cars (as stated by my list) as Toyota.

 

[killanite]

Typical Nissan fanboys, never reading the whole statement. And can't admit that they haven't built as many good cars (as stated by my list) as Toyota.

Yes, I read what what you started your post with but then you went ahead and made a list anyway.. meaning that you insist on bringing up the past anyway. so I simply tried to remind you to go back to your original statement and ignore the history.
And I'm hardly a nissan fanboy seeing as I own a honda

 

[mafia_boy]

So....VTEC kick in Yo??

 

[Jay]

But if you look at RECENT history (past 15yrs) then you have the following:

Aristo (2JZ-GTE)
Soarer (1JZ-GTE)
Celsior (1UZ, 3UZ, 1UR)
Chaser (1JZ-GTE)
Cresta (1JZ-GTE)
Mark II (1JZ-GTE)
Verossa (1JZ-GTE)
Supra (2JZ-GTE)
RS200 (Altezza, 3S-GE VVTL-i)
Celica GT-Four (3S-GTE)

vs

Skyline GT-R (R33, R34)
Skyline GTS-t (R33)
Skyline GT-T (R34)
300ZX (Z32)
350Z (Z33)
Skyline 350GT/Infiniti G35 (V35)
GT-R (R35)
370Z

You're forgetting a few

President
Cima
Cefiro
Silvia
Leopard
Stagea
Pulsar GTi-R

 

[mafia_boy]

You're forgetting a few

President
Cima
Cefiro
Silvia
Leopard
Stagea
Pulsar GTi-R

If you include Stagea, I could include the Caldina from Toyota's stable to that list too. Same with the President, add the Toyota Century. The GTi-R was out of that 15yr time frame though.

 

[Jay]

If you include Stagea, I could include the Caldina from Toyota's stable to that list too.

The Stagea is essentially a Skyline wagon but sure you can include the Caldina it is a cool car.

Same with the President, add the Toyota Century.

Century too

The GTi-R was out of that 15yr time frame though.

Gah almost, now you're nit picking


I would just like to note that I haven't voted because I like both and I actually drive both almost everyday.

 

[mafia_boy]

Makes you wish this was a multi-choice poll, eh Jay?

 

[TVC]

This is an opinion-based poll.. and in MY opinion, it is the company that creates the more exciting cars that appeal to me which is better..

You first brought up "driver's cars" and I showed you where you were wrong to compare. I don't really care that you like Toyota more, I'm just saying, your reasons have to be more factual. and sure.. reliabilty and toyota goes hand in hand.

I didn't bring up drivers cars first. The only reason I even mentioned anything about drivers cars was because someone said Toyota did not make any.

 

[homeforsummer]

I simply said I think a car that has a lot of like that may not necessarily be a drivers car

No, you didn't. You said:

Others are saying Toyota doesn't make any drivers cars? I think you can say basically the same for Nissan. Automatic rev-match downshifting and I think everyone has heard what people have said about the GT-R.

You picked two completely unsuitable Nissan examples as a backlash to people saying that Toyota don't make drivers cars. The comment implied that neither were "proper" drivers cars and you used the 370Z's rev-matching as an example, as well as a completely arbitrary remark about the GT-R that was deliberately disparaging (seriously, what on Earth does "I think everyone has heard what people have said about the GT-R" actually mean? It sounds like a comment from someone who is unable to provide a reasonable arguement).

Both are undisputably "drivers cars". Your remark was misleading, open-ended and not a long way short of trolling.

 

[TVC]

No, you didn't. You said:



You picked two completely unsuitable Nissan examples as a backlash to people saying that Toyota don't make drivers cars. The comment implied that neither were "proper" drivers cars and you used the 370Z's rev-matching as an example, as well as a completely arbitrary remark about the GT-R that was deliberately disparaging (seriously, what on Earth does "I think everyone has heard what people have said about the GT-R" actually mean? It sounds like a comment from someone who is unable to provide a reasonable arguement).

Both are undisputably "drivers cars". Your remark was misleading, open-ended and not a long way short of trolling.

And you said:

The system on the 370Z is supposed to be very good, actually. Not everyone in the world can heel and toe. This system is for them. It's just something that makes the driving experience better. For those who can heel and toe, it can be turned off. It's something for everyone.

When did I say automatic rev-matching downshifting was bad? When did I say it was poorly engineered on the 370Z? I never did.

The reason I said that about the GT-R is because I assumed most people here have heard what some people have said about the GT-R. You know like it is controlled by to many electronics.

I do not see how I am trolling. I never said anything bad about anyone. I never personally attacked anyone here. No reason to be mad just because someone disagrees with you. I don't understand why you are so offended that I said something that you do not disagree with about the GT-R and 370Z. I didn't even say anything bad about them.

 

[homeforsummer]

And you said:

When did I say automatic rev-matching downshifting was bad? When did I say it was poorly engineered on the 370Z? I never did.

The reason I said that about the GT-R is because I assumed most people here have heard what some people have said about the GT-R. You know like it is controlled by to many electronics.

I do not see how I am trolling. I never said anything bad about anyone. I never personally attacked anyone here. No reason to be mad just because someone disagrees with you. I don't understand why you are so offended that I said something that you do not disagree with about the GT-R and 370Z. I didn't even say anything bad about them.

Lets make this simple for you:

- You were trying to argue that some Toyotas are drivers cars. Fair enough, no disputing that. Indeed, you'll see that I voted for Toyota in the poll myself - I have nothing against them.

- You then said "Others are saying Toyota doesn't make any drivers cars? I think you can say basically the same for Nissan. Automatic rev-match downshifting and I think everyone has heard what people have said about the GT-R."

- I'm not sure how you can say you weren't saying bad things about the Nissans when you follow the blue sentence with the red one. It's more or less directly implying that Nissans aren't drivers cars because the 370Z uses rev-matching and the GT-R has "too many electronics" (which you didn't mention in your first sentence).

- I like the irony of you telling me not to be mad because I disagree when you're defending Toyotas so vehemently after people have claimed they aren't drivers cars. Also, it takes a lot more than someone getting in a tizz about Toyotas on the internet to make me mad, but if you think I'm going to let people talk out of their bottom without commenting on it then you're mistaken...

 

[Bram Turismo]

Woah, this thread has turned into an opinions & discussions thread. So I'll just stay out of everybody's way before things get ugly

I'll just say that I'll go with Toyota over Nissan, no matter what. Basically because I grew up with Toyotas; FJs (old-school), Landcruisers, Corolla, Carina, Previa, and many more models I can't remember. The first racecar I ever saw in action on TV was the GT-One TS020 and the first sportscar I ever read about was the Supra at an age of 8, hence why it's my dreamcar. So it's more than understandable I'm a real Toyota fanboy. I'll also say that seeing the American Nissan and Toyota line-up, I'll go with Nissan. But if we're talking about European models, it's the other way round. (The latest Avensis model I find a very good looking car for example)

Oh and I adore the new FJ, I think it's mega-awesome.

 

[TVC]

- I'm not sure how you can say you weren't saying bad things about the Nissans when you follow the blue sentence with the red one. It's more or less directly implying that Nissans aren't drivers cars because the 370Z uses rev-matching and the GT-R has "too many electronics" (which you didn't mention in your first sentence).

- I like the irony of you telling me not to be mad because I disagree when you're defending Toyotas so vehemently after people have claimed they aren't drivers cars. Also, it takes a lot more than someone getting in a tizz about Toyotas on the internet to make me mad, but if you think I'm going to let people talk out of their bottom without commenting on it then you're mistaken...

But when did I say the 370Z and GT-R were bad cars?


I'm not defending Toyota I am defending what I said.

 

[McLaren]

The LF-A isn't a driver's car either, it doesn't have a manual gearbox, The steering is electronic and it's mostly made as a one of showpiece of what toyota COULD do, BUT it's way overpriced and in limited numbers.

Electronic steering & not having a manaul gearbox do not dictate what makes a true driver's car. The Cayman S has been called a great driver's car & that's with the PDK transmission.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/...9_best_drivers_car/2009_porsche_cayman_s.html

The IS-F is hardly a driver's car especially when you can get a BMW M3 for around the same price which is about a million times better at doing just that.

The price of the competition is one of the worst things to base a "Driver's Car" on.

I wouldn't consider the IS-F a driver's car either, but that's because of the reviews I've read, not because I can get a M3 for the same price.

 

[killanite]

Electronic steering & not having a manaul gearbox do not dictate what makes a true driver's car. The Cayman S has been called a great driver's car & that's with the PDK transmission.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/...9_best_drivers_car/2009_porsche_cayman_s.html

The price of the competition is one of the worst things to base a "Driver's Car" on.

I wouldn't consider the IS-F a driver's car either, but that's because of the reviews I've read, not because I can get a M3 for the same price.

@ the LF-A.. Well ofcorse neither of us can comment on whether it is a driver's car or not because we haven't driven one (and probably never will) but based on this review done by autocar, he talks about the steering not giving enough feedback, and the gearbox being clumsy at times, and I believe feedback is immensely important for a driver's car (the gearbox I mainly added because TVC was talking about synchroRev in the 370z as an anti-driver's car gizmo and if that's so then so is the LF-A's techno gearbox).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcVHmv43f-s&feature=channel

@ the ISF. well the reason why I brought in the M3 is because the IS-F's target was basicly the M3... and it was designed to compete with it, and when a car company makes a car specifically to compete with another it's not really making it for the driver but for the market.

that's just my thoughts on this, you may disagree but that's okay...

 

[McLaren]

@ the LF-A.. Well ofcorse neither of us can comment on whether it is a driver's car or not because we haven't driven one (and probably never will) but based on this review done by autocar, he talks about the steering not giving enough feedback, and the gearbox being clumsy at times, and I believe feedback is immensely important for a driver's car (the gearbox I mainly added because TVC was talking about synchroRev in the 370z as an anti-driver's car gizmo and if that's so then so is the LF-A's techno gearbox).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcVHmv43f-s&feature=channel

But yet, you still did because it wasn't manual, was in limited numbers, & overpriced....

@ the ISF. well the reason why I brought in the M3 is because the IS-F's target was basicly the M3... and it was designed to compete with it, and when a car company makes a car specifically to compete with another it's not really making it for the driver but for the market.

that's just my thoughts on this, you may disagree but that's okay...

That's not exactly true, nor is it really a reason why the IS-F doesn't make a particularly great driver's car.

I'm pretty sure anyone could make a car to compete with someone else's & still be a fantastic car to drive. The Audi R8 is a pretty decent example.

 

[killanite]

But yet, you still did because it wasn't manual, was in limited numbers, & overpriced....

The limited numbers and overpriced bit was just for the bit where I said it is just a showpiece of what toyota COULD do. I agree it has nothing to do with it being a driver's car.
(again the gearbox is just to counter the synchrorev comments)

That's not exactly true, nor is it really a reason why the IS-F doesn't make a particularly great driver's car.

I'm pretty sure anyone could make a car to compete with someone else's & still be a fantastic car to drive. The Audi R8 is a pretty decent example.

Okay, you've got me with the R8, but while Audi did it properly.. Lexus didn't... They set out to compete with the M3 from the get-go, and it is distinguished as a driver's car (well in my opinion anyway) but rather than making the IS-F similar (or better) in that regard, they tried to make it better at performance and luxury (which is perfectly fine, I don't dislike the IS-F for that). So that's why I mentioned the M3.. because when people are talking about driver's cars and the IS-F, I instantly thought "If you wanted to have a driver's car you'd get the M3 not the IS-F" because they're in direct competition with each other price-wise and class-wise.
But I understand if you think that's irrelevant.

 

[homeforsummer]

But when did I say the 370Z and GT-R were bad cars?

You didn't say it, you implied it. Quite strongly and pretty obviously. I've made this fairly clear more than once, but if you're not going to read and understand what I've written then I can't be bothered discussing it with you.

 

[McLaren]

Okay, you've got me with the R8, but while Audi did it properly.. Lexus didn't... They set out to compete with the M3 from the get-go, and it is distinguished as a driver's car (well in my opinion anyway) but rather than making the IS-F similar (or better) in that regard, they tried to make it better at performance and luxury (which is perfectly fine, I don't dislike the IS-F for that). So that's why I mentioned the M3.. because when people are talking about driver's cars and the IS-F, I instantly thought "If you wanted to have a driver's car you'd get the M3 not the IS-F" because they're in direct competition with each other price-wise and class-wise.
But I understand if you think that's irrelevant.

No, I can see where you're coming from when you give more detail on it. I don't entirely agree with the original principle, but I understand it in the IS-F's case.

 

[TVC]

You didn't say it, you implied it. Quite strongly and pretty obviously. I've made this fairly clear more than once, but if you're not going to read and understand what I've written then I can't be bothered discussing it with you.

No I think that is just how you read it. I never said they were bad. You are assuming saying a car is not a drivers car is the same as saying it is a bad car. I don't think it is. I read my posts and I don't see anywhere where I am saying something bad about Nissan.

 

[homeforsummer]

No I think that is just how you read it. I never said they were bad. You are assuming saying a car is not a drivers car is the same as saying it is a bad car. I don't think it is. I read my posts and I don't see anywhere where I am saying something bad about Nissan.

The whole discussion I picked up on is about drivers cars. You'll note that I haven't said anywhere that you were saying Nissans were bad cars. Your post implied though that they were bad drivers cars. This is inaccurate in the extreme for the models you highlighted, so I called you out on it. It really isn't difficult to follow...

The thread as a whole is about the cars, but you were talking about drivers cars. This is what I called you out on.