No assists, a joke?

[Morgoth_666]

In this excellent video, Oliver clearly mentions TC while driving the ZR1 at La Sarthe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_3-P21tIxA

Yes, LMS and ALMS cars, along with some other race cars, do use TC. Some use other aids as well. That point has never been in dispute by anyone. If it's professional competition and something makes you faster(debatable for TC in GT5), to not run it is foolish whatever your own desire may be. In some cases things like that may add a weight(or other) penalty which makes the decision more complex.

But GT5 is not professional competition and has no danger, expense, long gaps between events(leagues aside), rich-guy drivers or manufacturer meddling. So there's not much relevance - in GT5 personal desire, fun and satisfaction are all that matter.

Some people drive without aids, and don't feel they need to hide it. Some take offense to that for whatever reasons. A tiny few on both sides enjoy insulting the others. Welcome to human nature 101.

 

[BWX]

.................... If you're having fun doing it good, but at the end it doesnt make you better in my eyes than someone doing the same laps as you with assist.

Your eyes are blurry then.

The guy doing the same lap times without aids is "better" than the guy doing the same lap times with aids on.

Why? because it is more difficult, thus taking more skill, thus making that guy w/o aids "better".. That is totally objective too, you could measure the difficulty of which way takes more skill, aids on or off.

"Better" depends on your definition of it, but we could argue about what the definition of "is" is too..

That sentence I quoted from you sounds like it would come from a guy who uses driving aids trying to make himself feel better about not being able to keep up without driving aids. Sad really.. give the guy who isn't using driving aids credit, and just admit he's a better driver. I would.

 

[JaySin85]

TCS will in no circumstance help a skilled driver go faster. Except maybe in certain race cars and motorcycles. Otherwise, it just turns the good kind off tire slip at the edge of max grip into slowing you down and preventing you from getting to the edge of grip.

 

[Barn One]

I was one of the ones wanting a restrict ABS added to online.
The day it was added, i started turning it off in my rooms.
The reason was simple, i got tired of the dive bombing, last second, brake balance on 10/10,7/5,etc drivers using the poorly modeled ABS system as the GAME AID it is in GT5.
Now drivers HAVE to use proper braking, along with a smoother style.
Any driver you see using no aids including no ABS doesn't mean they are the best, (i'm just average), it just means they are trying to get the most out of GT5 and found out this was the best way to do so.
I can't even use ABS now and i'm a controller user.

 

[JDMKING13]

I was one of the ones wanting a restrict ABS added to online.
The day it was added, i started turning it off in my rooms.
The reason was simple, i got tired of the dive bombing, last second, brake balance on 10/10,7/5,etc drivers using the poorly modeled ABS system as the GAME AID it is in GT5.
Now drivers HAVE to use proper braking, along with a smoother style.
Any driver you see using no aids including no ABS doesn't mean they are the best, (i'm just average), it just means they are trying to get the most out of GT5 and found out this was the best way to do so.
I can't even use ABS now and i'm a controller user.

Great post man you should check out my Project GTR league. I make sure that if you turn off the ASM on your car the ABS has to come off also to give the driver a realistic experience.

 

[Spinodontosaur4]

Setting a fast lap in an FGT with no aids at all takes a considerably more skill than setting one in a Honda Civic with all aids on. If you want to use aids, do it. It takes alot of skill out of driving, I find particularly in terms of consistency, and you arent really driving the car anymore. The game is doig half the work.

As for an older comment re tire choice, this is something I dont understand.
I do not at all consider using higher grip tires a driving aid in the same vein as TCS etc.. TCS prevents you from putting to much power on to spin up the tires. SRF magically prevents the car from sliding or something. Racing Soft have more grip than Comfort hard, not at all comparable to TCS.
Yes, using Comfort hards takes more skill in throttle control and such than using racing soft - although due to less grip everything happens slower. I personally dont find low grip tires fun. I like the speed Racing Soft allows you to keep up around a track, I dont like having to potter along at 40mph around even the slightest of kinks (/exaggeration), and I also like cars to be responsive, something I dont get from lower grip tires.
Thus, I dont find using them as fun (although I quite enjoy some midrange street cars on sports soft). The driver is still driving the car, unlike with some of the aids, so I dont see much of a problem.

 

[granddriver]

The Stig turns them off because it makes the car faster. With that said you have to have talent to drive that way. ENOUGH SAID!

 

[Silver-Sylph]

I only use ABS-1 and if I am driving a Le Mans I usually put TCS-1. Anything else just slows you wayyyy down.

 

[Machate-man]

Your car may be able to go faster with X assists turned off, but (in most cases) the skill required to reach the potential of your car is sometimes out of reach of the standard racer. Those with extensive experience and knowledge of what the assists do to help you usually fare much better than those who do not.

For example:

Given:Traction Control reduces wheelspin by limiting throttle.

Player 1 turns it off because he/she knows that it reduces wheelspin by limiting driver input/throttle, and simply drives with less throttle in corners.

Player 2 floors it in each corner with TCS on, and turns it off *because he thinks it'll make him faster*. He uses the same tactics that he did earlier, and finds the car much harder to drive. He still doesn't know what TCS does, except that turning it off makes it harder to drive.

*This is the case when new racers do not read descriptions, and read from other GTPers that "No assists makes you faster"

If you don't know what an assist does to help you, you will not know what to do in order to adjust for the removal of the assist.

 

[GenkoMax]

I, personally only ever have one aid on at any time. (ABS:1)
I don't look down on those who use aids, you can play the game however you wish, it's why the options are there. I personally chose to discard anything except ABS because I feel more connected to the car, and the experience for me is better.
-On a side note, currently not running anything, including ABS in an attempt to better my braking technique. It's a productive exercise and I recommend it.

 

[Tintorera]

In my experience, driving without assists make me feel more connected to the car I'm driving. To be able to control the car you need to constantly feel the feedback your car is giving you (through the steering wheel, tyre squeal and wisually on the screen).

After playing GT5 since launch, I have started to run in cocpit view with no HUD, instead of "bumper" cam and full HUD. This is drastically increasing the difficulty level and realism in my opinion.

Everyone must feel free to use whatever aids and view/HUD they want, and I don't look down on people using aids. Still I would suggest peope to try without.

In my experience online, rooms running with no aids is more often up fore a clean race. This is just based on my online experience.

 

[MadmuppGT]

I tend to use T/C if I'm driving something powerful and rwd, mainly because I'm using the DS controller and its difficult to get that millimeter movement on the accelerator that those cars demand, I do however only keep it to about 3 with those cars so it 'dumbs' down the surge of power but doesnt allow me to be a total balls to the wall nut job without any risk of the tail kicking out.

I raced a friend online once and noticed he had EVERYTHING turned up to the max, active steering, skid control... Everything, his car twitched and looked so unnatural on the track, then I even had a go myself with the same setting, just to see and the car handled like a wooden soapbox... Now, those people I cant understand! But a little help depending on the car sure, I'm all for it!

 

[HuskyGT]

Ok, I have to be honest. I've cheated in the Rally events. I didn´t have any patience to learn the proper way of racing in dirt/snow in GT5 like I did in GT4, so I used Skid Recovery Force.

But with the rest, I hold my previous statement. All off except ABS 1 when I know the car has ABS irl. I might use TCS and SRF in LMP cars when racing in heavy rain not because it's impossible without them ( I completed both Le Mans and Nurburgring with rain once without assists, plus ABS), but because it's extremely difficult to concentrate for 20 minutes to dose the right amount of gas/brake with both DS3 analogs. Plus, I'm sure irl they would use some sort of system in these cars for safety reasons when conditions are dangerous.

But again, it has always been the same for me, and I don't plan on turning my ABS on in my 70's Challenger, or turn it off in my BMW M5. As for the rest of the assists, they will never see the "on" switch in my game.

MadmuppGT
I tend to use T/C if I'm driving something powerful and rwd, mainly because I'm using the DS controller and its difficult to get that millimeter movement on the accelerator that those cars demand, I do however only keep it to about 3 with those cars so it 'dumbs' down the surge of power but doesnt allow me to be a total balls to the wall nut job without any risk of the tail kicking out.

I don't know how you use your DS3, but why don't you try both sticks? It sounds dumb and it's tricky at first, but trust me that they are the best option for perfect dosing of the gas and brakes. The Analogs have a much better feel and accuracy than the pressure sensitive buttons or the rear R2/L2 triggers. I've been playing like that since the first PS1 Dual Shock controller was introduced and trust me when I tell you, if you master the technique, you won't find any difference in your lap times or driving if later you try a wheel

 

[JDMKING13]

Tisk tisk Husky using skid force It's all good man, but in all honesty I have no problem people using assist. As long as they are a clean driver it all good with me. For the realism I drive with all assist off including ABS. ABS in GT5 keeps the car to stable during poor braking technique in my respectful opinion. This is why in my league once you disable your cars real ASM system EX Nissan VDC, all assist must be off. With the 370z, 350z, G35, G37 VDC/ASM cannot be completely disable, so that means when driving those cars in my league you have to keep ABS 1 on with the other assist off ASM, TC.

I use my DS3 all the time L2 for brake and R2 for gas no problem with braking or throttle. 👍

 

[HuskyGT]

Tisk tisk Husky using skid force ...

I swear it was just that one time...

 

[JDMKING13]

I swear it was just that one time...

to funny man, it's all good though.

 

[Roush_fan_99]

^ oh wow, I didn't even think of rally events because I never Rally except when an online vote goes to it or in a time trial, sounds to tough for me to really take the time to learn that, so I definitely do use SRF and ABS

 

[mattmflok]

i am not one that would use assists because i want to master my ride with what i've got

 

[googleberry]

Surely if I go down to my local Lamborghini dealership and ask to drive the Murcielago and how to turn off the assists I will be laughed at. Therefore, you better believe I turn on TCS, ASM, and ABS when driving it in GT5.

If the Lamborghini dealership was at any one of the TRACKS we are all driving on in GT5 as opposed to in the middle of a city where you don't have the room nor the right to use those 700 horses, I don't think you would be laughed at.

When people are at tracks, they like to turn the TC off to have "fun". I'm not arguing that many cars have fancy-pants electronic stability control and electronic suspension etc, but people do turn those controls off when RACING to have a better experience.

However, nearly ALL road cars these days do have ABS and you don't really "turn that off", I guess you can pull some fuses...

 

[mikeonthebike]

imo it´s kind of a challenge to drive without aids, it raises the funbar for me. so i do this because i wanna have more fun and not because i´m a super-hardcore-ultra-professional sim racer

the only thing i turn on is abs (on 1) because pd *****d up pedal support for the g27. it´s nearly impossible to drive without it in gt5.

cheers :>

After your wheel calibrates step on all the pedals to full (not all pedals at once but step on every pedal). It calibrates them. I was having a hard time with no abs at first but still enjoying it but the culprit was my pedals weren't calibrated.

I didn't realize what was happening at first but I would touch my brake pedal just barely and it would max out the red bar showing the brake input level. Then one day I was in an online room with the false start engaged and I stepped on the brake pedal all the way and that race my brakes felt so much better.

This was right around the update that added the g27 in the options so I just figured they corrected this and I commented on this in a change long and was told that g27's did this from the start and that if you only pushed the brake pedal half way the first time then it would calibrate that half pedal was FULL brakes. I've since formed the habit of pushing every pedal to full throw once when leaving the pit while still in auto drive, and I also do my same ritual while waiting for the race start count down.

have started gt5 again .with my DFGT this time.

everything that can be turned off is off.

personally more fun for me this time round

Same here. I started a new psn to play through gt5 a little after I got my g27 since it was near completed when I purchased the g27. I was running everything off but abs1 with the ds3 and was pretty fast and real good at drifting too but it wasn't really fulfilling and I was sitting on the couch almost motionless except thumbs and fingers moving.

Now with the G27 I typically run with all assists off with brake balances of 4-2, 3-1 , 3-0 and sometime 2-0. Occasionally I will turn on ABS mid race (assigned ra menu buttons to the wheel) if I am dealing with unrealistic driving dive bombers that have cranked up brakes and abs.

I'm now a little faster, but it is way more fulfilling to drift or race with the wheel. I've done high lap races in shuffles and drift for 15 or 20 laps now and my heart rate is up, I've got some sweat and I feel like I really drifted or raced those laps. Did a 20 lap shuffle at Daytona road course and was physically tired after that one instead of just the mental tired the ds3 gives you.

Your eyes are blurry then.

The guy doing the same lap times without aids is "better" than the guy doing the same lap times with aids on.

Why? because it is more difficult, thus taking more skill, thus making that guy w/o aids "better".. That is totally objective too, you could measure the difficulty of which way takes more skill, aids on or off.

"Better" depends on your definition of it, but we could argue about what the definition of "is" is too..

give the guy who isn't using driving aids credit, and just admit he's a better driver. I would.

👍

The Stig turns them off because it makes the car faster. With that said you have to have talent to drive that way. ENOUGH SAID!

👍👍

 

[mikeonthebike]

I own a car with Electronic Stability Control.

For somebody as argumentative as him about everything in this thread I find fault in the above statement. What car is it? Just "I own a car" and then off with his rant

As an owner of an early 70's C3 Stingray, I have never lost control of it in real life and only spin the tires when trying to do so. In GT5, the car is all over the place with no assists.

Now he's talking about owning an early 70's c3 stingray. Hmm I have never met a vette owner or a classic car owner that vaguely says they have said car. My first car was a 1965 Ford Falcon, I don't go around telling people that I have a mid 60's ford falcon, it's a '65 Ford Falcon.


Seems we have been trolled here by a video game barstool cowboy or benchracer that blurs factual with what the video games offer him. Furthermore if you look at his posts he moved on to shift 2 and f1 2011 I think it said (all the f1 examples he used makes sense now) Maybe gt5 wasn't arcady enough for him. No activity from this guy since early/mid 2011.

And if for some strange reason he decides to come back and read this and dispute what I have said then how about a picture of him with his "CAR" and with his "early 70's c3 stingray" with him holding a cardboard sign with the title of this thread written on the cardboard in black sharpie. No need to have your face in the pic. Not too much to ask is it?

 

[Smuttysy]

I'm using ABS only for the most part, with occasional SRF for online running with real pain in the arse cars, such as the Yellowbird.

If GT5 was sophisticated enough to replicate the exact settings that the real cars used for each of their assists then you can cry "realism" and be justified in doing so. Almost all the cars on the market have different traction control, stability and ABS systems, which will all react differently. For example, the McLaren's traction control has a sort of "adaptive release" where instead of a complete dead cut of the power it reduces it in a progressive manner, something not replicated in game. Then there's the ultra-sophisticated traction control systems of the Japanese 4WD cars of recent, where power is moved around the different wheels depending on the traction levels available, again not replicable in the game.
I also don't see what everyone's obsession with ABS at 1 is, for the same reason, all the ABS systems will differ between vehicles, so again, realism is completely lost, which is why I have different levels across my cars.

The key thing here is choice. YOU have the choice to switch them on or off, regardless of the real car's ability to have them. Pick your aids to suit the way you want the car to feel and to hell with anyone who tells you you're a noob for using x or y. At the end of the day it's your game, which you paid for and you enjoy playing it. I would never judge someone's ability simply based on the amount of aids they have switched on without seeing their circuit performance and driving attitude. Remember, it's not what you have that matters, can you use it properly?

 

[granddriver]

I don't know how you use your DS3, but why don't you try both sticks? It sounds dumb and it's tricky at first, but trust me that they are the best option for perfect dosing of the gas and brakes. The Analogs have a much better feel and accuracy than the pressure sensitive buttons or the rear R2/L2 triggers. I've been playing like that since the first PS1 Dual Shock controller was introduced and trust me when I tell you, if you master the technique, you won't find any difference in your lap times or driving if later you try a wheel

I do agree that the stick is a little more accurate but how do you brake and gas at the same time. I use the L2/R2 triggers.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Surely if I go down to my local Lamborghini dealership and ask to drive the Murcielago and how to turn off the assists I will be laughed at. Therefore, you better believe I turn on TCS, ASM, and ABS when driving it in GT5.
Why you may ask? Because the real 🤬 car has a full blown state-of-the-art Electronic Stability Control system.

Lots of cars nowadays (even supercars) have defeatable traction/stability control systems. In other words, it's easy to just turn this stuff off at the flick of a switch or a few switches. Lots of these cars also have different "modes" which incorporate different levels of assists.

That being said, it's actually often quite easy to turn this stuff off, though I doubt the dealer would let you do it during a test drive!

Furthermore, do those same people understand that some race cars do indeed have a form of traction control and/or other assists?
Traction control was only banned in Formula 1 at the start of the 2008 season. That says something right there. Therefore, guess what? When I drive the F2007, yes I turn on TCS.

I understand this. But I also get my best lap times once this stuff is turned off (ABS is the only exception). The choice to use this assists is totally up to the driver

 

[shirakawaa]

Keep in mind that the assists in GT5, including ABS, aren't realistic at all.

 

[JDMKING13]

If GT5 was sophisticated enough to replicate the exact settings that the real cars used for each of their assists then you can cry "realism" and be justified in doing so. Almost all the cars on the market have different traction control, stability and ABS systems, which will all react differently. For example, the McLaren's traction control has a sort of "adaptive release" where instead of a complete dead cut of the power it reduces it in a progressive manner, something not replicated in game. Then there's the ultra-sophisticated traction control systems of the Japanese 4WD cars of recent, where power is moved around the different wheels depending on the traction levels available, again not replicable in the game.
I also don't see what everyone's obsession with ABS at 1 is, for the same reason, all the ABS systems will differ between vehicles, so again, realism is completely lost, which is why I have different levels across my cars.

This is what I am trying to do in my league, basically each car has a specific driving assist setting. I will use 2 cars for an example Nissan 370Z and Honda S2000 06. In real life both of these cars have ABS traction control and ASM. Nissan has VDC(Vehicle Dynamic Control) and Honda has VSA.(Vehicle Stability Assist)

When Driving the Z34 with VDC on, the assist you have to use in my league PGTR are ASM on, ABS1, TC1. With VDC off everything is off except ABS 1, because VDC does not fully disable even though it is off in the 370Z. The ecu helps keep the Z stable during braking even though VDC is off. This is why the 350Z and 370Z are considered good sport cars for new sport car drivers.

When driving the S2000 06 with VSA on the assist you have to use are ASM ABS1 TC1. With VSA off everything is off including ABS. Unike the Z the S2000 doesn't have assist helping you once VSA is disabled. ABS off in my opinion with the correct brake bias gives a better experiene when it comes to braking. ABS1 keeps the car extra stable when it comes to braking. This is why in my league I use ABS as an extra aid for stability control. This style is still not as sophisticated as the real system, but it makes GT5 more personal when I play this way.