No R tyres in expert events?

[The Outlaw]

I just copied my post from the "What is the fascination with tyre restrictions" thread, as it pertained to this topic as well. IMO, if you aren't within at least a second of the fastest guys you have no argument for R comps being too easy and boring. If they're so easy to drive on and master, then why are you so far off pace to begin with?

"I personally enjoy racing on all the tires, although I believe each tire has its place. For example R comps are best for the beastly PP700-800 cars, while racing low-moderate powered (~PP500-650) cars I find most enjoyable with N or Sport tires. The R comps are challenging in their own respect though...especially in reality . I find it funny when people say that driving on R comps isn't challenging enough, YET their lap times are 2-3 seconds off the pace of the Elite drivers. The R comps increase the braking and cornering abilities of the vehicle drastically. To put in a quick lap with the R tires requires quicker reflexes and judgements...something very important to say a Formula 1 driver. Also, when R comps (in real life as well) do break traction they have a tendency to break traction extremely quickly at the limit and with little noise, requiring much quicker reactions to keep the car inline. It's not all about keeping the car straight and undercontrol...pick the pace up of the cars braking and cornering abilities and lets see if you can drive into, through, and out of the corners at the threshold of the cars ability running the OPTIMAL line.

I have a good amount of experience racing real cars on both street tires, Nitto R-comps, and then full Hoosier R6 slicks. I suggest some of you go drive a higher hp car around a circuit with both street tires and then a Hoosier slick. Driving on the Hoosier slick at the absolute limit is much more nerve racking than on a street tire. The limit is drastically raised, the tires make little to no noise at the limit, and when the tires do break away you better make sure your steering corrections are spot on and lightening quick. Street tires give you a much better awareness of where the limit is, and when they do break traction it is at a much slower and controllable rate. I'm not sure if GT5P simulates this quite as well as it could...at least in the regards to the challenge of driving a car with R comps. Once the Fanatec GT3 wheel comes out and I pick one up hopefully I will be able to provide some insight. With a controller it's a bit hard to make any justifiable comparison lol"

 

[aleska]

And what is the problem here?
You can use all tyres and this is good.
So i'm girl,but i know that i must have different setap for S or R tyres.

By the way,R tyres are made for racing and we have a lot good online races events now after last update.

 

[DTM]

EDIT: i do have a driving licence but i dont have any racing experience. But you must admit that driving Integra or other 550pp cars with R tyres is pretty dumb

your right

read my post, nr 5. (click here)

 

[Rash-182]

"I personally enjoy racing on all the tires, although I believe each tire has its place. "

Yeah thats it. I have to change title of this thread

Roomboter: +1 👍

 

[RedBaron]

If we were able to do our own events, all those discussions wouldn't exist. Right now PD is deciding what is good for us and what not and that's not good for us, because they can never fulfill every player's needs.

 

[Rash-182]

If we were able to do our own events, all those discussions wouldn't exist. Right now PD is deciding what is good for us and what not and that's not good for us, because they can never fulfill every player's needs.

sad but true..
Hey you are from CZ! (nevsiml sem si te )

 

[Jack]

Banning R tyres from an expert event its stupid. When you get 700PP+ its brakes the traction from the R tyres, simple.

And using SixAxis doesnt mean you have to use TCS. That proberly why you find it so boring. Take TCS off and the game comes alive. Pushing hard has a whole new meaning then.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Why is it that everytime one person doesn't like something, their solution is to ban it for everybody?

If you don't like R-tyres, go to the Events forum and create an S2/N3 only event or something like that, I'm sure plenty people will join (including me ). We're not all the same here. I'm sure many people love racing low PP cars on R-tyres. Why would you mess up the game for them, that is downright selfish! There is no reason to ban anything. Remember we can be way more flexible in defining events over here on GTP if there are no restrictions.

That said, I don't prefer R-tyres on a low-PP car. Driving those on S or N tyres makes racing much more fun. But I wouldn't dare to suggest that stuff I don't prefer should be banned. The real solution (and this is a recurring one every time) here is private events, where we can choose whatever settings we want ourselves. In the mean time, use the Events forum right here on GTP.

An S-tyre restricted event for 650PP Suzuka would be very nice BTW.

 

[fasj6418]

My god, another thread of ramblings about how its so "hardcore" to hate on race tires. If you don't like it just don't use it.

Taking away optons is a silly thing. I still haven't gotten an explanation as to why i can't use my beloved racing tires in free run. To me, that's the biggest flaw of the game right now.

Instead of giving more options to the player, people keep asking for bans.

 

[Div is back]

You have made this suggestion in my thread.

here is what I replied....

Rash_182, That has got to be the silliest thing I have ever heard.

Why ban R class tyres from all Expert events. What happens when the full game appears and you are racing DTM's, Le Mans, & JTC cars? Do they run on stock tyres in real life? NO.

That sort of idea would take away the games motto, "The Real Driving Simulator".


This is on of the daftest things I have ever heard. Next we will have people asking to ban, certain classes of car, then specific cars. Tell you what, why not ban engines.

What next?

A bit harsh no?

It's obvious he has difficulties with english, give him a break.

I'd be more inclined to assume he was proposing a R tyre ban on STREET cars, which makes total sense and is something I would definately agree with.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I'd be more inclined to assume he was proposing a R tyre ban on STREET cars, which makes total sense

No it doesn't. Just because you don't like something it should be banned for everybody? Not only does that not make any sense at all, it's plain selfish. 👎 You want a street car event without R-tires: create an event in the Events forum. The rest of us like to be free to choose whatever tires they want.

EDIT: Maybe a poll would be nice.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

No it doesn't. Just because you don't like something it should be banned for everybody? Not only does that not make any sense at all, it's plain selfish. 👎 You want a street car event without R-tires: create an event in the Events forum. The rest of us like to be free to choose whatever tires they want.

EDIT: Maybe a poll would be nice.

That makes more sense than anything I have heard on topic in a while.

 

[Rash-182]

i agree with some of you that it is maybe a bit selfish to ban R tyres for all.. best would be that they could be used on 700pp +
EDIT: i will try to make a poll

 

[HUGHS1E]

I dont see the problem with them, I find in some cases R tyre's only slow you down due to the high PP they cost you, the performance points are so low 550pp RWD that R tires are not the necessity, I like the battle of should I use R tires or not etc, the amount of people I pass on R tires on the FWD/RWD 550pp races is fantastic. It means that drivers with less ability can still enjoy themselves in the races by using gripy tires, YES this may mean that at times NOOBS maybe in position to knock you off at times, but instead of bitching about them just learn to put yourself in a position where they cant do it.

Just because you have the option to use a super grippy tires doesnt mean you have to use it, For example I feel a DC5 is such a fantastic handling car I personally feel R tires are to grippy for that and power will be more effective, BUT if it was the mountain track it would be a different story, R tires and a engine tunned a little less for power and a little more for torque I would favour if it was a 550pp limit.

PS, I'll vote to not ban them, BUT I DONT THINK YOUR AN IDIOT IN ANYWAY!

 

[Rash-182]

PS, I'll vote to not ban them, BUT I DONT THINK YOUR AN IDIOT IN ANYWAY!

good to know that

Btw there is some pretty good racing in the 550 RWD Suzuka

 

[Exorcet]

Any tire on any car is fine. I don't care what tire/car combos there are, it's just as fun. I just want variety. If they have R tire races, they should have sport and normal tire races too.

What I don't like is multi tire racing though. For one thing, N tires aren't competitive. It's truth. I took my SRT-10 to Suzuka on N3, best lap was 2:26, Z4 on R3 got 2:20, M3 on S3 got 2:20. The problem is grip isn't simulated properly. The huge g numbers seen in game would not come from R tires alone, you would need racing suspension and downforce to get those numbers. R tires on a street car without any other modifications would get you S2 grip at best.

 

[MrDuck1234]

another pointless thread.

 

[Leonidae]

another pointless thread.

And yet another pointless post. If you don't have anything constructive say, think twice before posting.

 

[Div is back]

No it doesn't. Just because you don't like something it should be banned for everybody? Not only does that not make any sense at all, it's plain selfish. 👎 You want a street car event without R-tires: create an event in the Events forum. The rest of us like to be free to choose whatever tires they want.

EDIT: Maybe a poll would be nice.

We all pride ourselves in having "the real driving simulator" yet when confronted with a choice for realism, and may I add in expert events only, you choose to ignore the realistic option.

Question:
When is the last time you have seen R compound tires on a stock street car? Note I am NOT against R tires on race/tuned cars.

Realistic answer: Never. You wouldn't have enough speed/power/brakes to even warm them up properly.

Gaymer answer: All the time, look, GTR MAD powa

Quick note: I don't dislike R tires on street cars, they make for great fun offline, yet they are NOT a realistic option in EXPERT events ONLINE if you take into consideration the EXPERT events are supposedly for the most realistic online driving experience.

 

[Rash-182]

We all pride ourselves in having "the real driving simulator" yet when confronted with a choice for realism, and may I add in expert events only, you choose to ignore the realistic option.

Question:
When is the last time you have seen R compound tires on a stock street car? Note I am NOT against R tires on race/tuned cars.

Realistic answer: Never. You wouldn't have enough speed/power/brakes to even warm them up properly.

Gaymer answer: All the time, look, GTR MAD powa

Quick note: I don't dislike R tires on street cars, they make for great fun offline, yet they are NOT a realistic option in EXPERT events ONLINE if you take into consideration the EXPERT events are supposedly for the most realistic online driving experience.

nicely said. we have to pray that PD will show some sense when choosing options for online events (current Fuji would be better 500 than 550 ......)

another pointless thread.

well since BIG Fall Update thread is dead we have to discus about something 💡

 

[Paulie]

When the full GT5 comes out, and if we wanted JGTC 300 cars to race, we wouldn't want R tyres to be banned. I think it depends on the circumstances we use them.

 

[Div is back]

When the full GT5 comes out, and if we wanted JGTC 300 cars to race, we wouldn't want R tyres to be banned. I think it depends on the circumstances we use them.

Right. Read my post over again.

 

[Paulie]

Right. Read my post over again.

What does my post have to do with your post? R tyres would be the realistic option for race cars.

 

[Exorcet]

We all pride ourselves in having "the real driving simulator" yet when confronted with a choice for realism, and may I add in expert events only, you choose to ignore the realistic option.

Question:
When is the last time you have seen R compound tires on a stock street car? Note I am NOT against R tires on race/tuned cars.

Realistic answer: Never. You wouldn't have enough speed/power/brakes to even warm them up properly.

Gaymer answer: All the time, look, GTR MAD powa

Quick note: I don't dislike R tires on street cars, they make for great fun offline, yet they are NOT a realistic option in EXPERT events ONLINE if you take into consideration the EXPERT events are supposedly for the most realistic online driving experience.

Real Realistic Answer: Viper ACR, 430 Scuderia, F430, Gallardo. R compounds are used on street cars, and I've seen them used at autocross events.

 

[The Outlaw]

We all pride ourselves in having "the real driving simulator" yet when confronted with a choice for realism, and may I add in expert events only, you choose to ignore the realistic option.

Question:
When is the last time you have seen R compound tires on a stock street car? Note I am NOT against R tires on race/tuned cars.

Realistic answer: Never. You wouldn't have enough speed/power/brakes to even warm them up properly.

Gaymer answer: All the time, look, GTR MAD powa

Quick note: I don't dislike R tires on street cars, they make for great fun offline, yet they are NOT a realistic option in EXPERT events ONLINE if you take into consideration the EXPERT events are supposedly for the most realistic online driving experience.

You have it all wrong. First of all like Exorcet mentioned, there are a good number of production vehicles that are being sold with R compound tires from the factory. The Porsche GT2/GT3, Viper ACR, 430 Scuderia, Gallardo LP/560, Exige are some that come to mind. Most sports cars don't come with R comps from the factory simply because they aren't ideal for daily driving situations that the COMMON buyer would face. If the manufacturer figured EVERY buyer were only going to track the car (what we do in the game) they would throw R-comps on their cars guaranteed. So what's really realistic?


Quote:

"Question:
When is the last time you have seen R compound tires on a stock street car? Note I am NOT against R tires on race/tuned cars.

Realistic answer: Never. You wouldn't have enough speed/power/brakes to even warm them up properly.

Gaymer answer: All the time, look, GTR MAD powa"

This is a completely generalized and blind answer. It makes you sound uneducated on the matter, if anyone. It really depends on the vehicle and the particular tire compound and where it's operating tempature is...your answer holds no merit otherwise.

Realistically, STOCK/sports tires wouldn't be used in a 10+ lap battle around Suzuka when the cars are being pushed to the absolute limits either. Street tires would be absolutely trashed after about 5 laps and would overheat and become greasy as all hell for the last couple of laps. That's in reality, of course we don't have drastic tire wear in GT5P like we should. So this makes the entire what's most realistic argument moot. Also, most people that are into tracking their vehicles commonly put R comps or slicks on their vehicles even when they are stock or mildy modified at most. Simply because they provide superior performance/grip with much better wear characteristics and an increased tempature operating range.

 

[Paulie]

You have it all wrong. First of all like Exorcet mentioned, there are a good number of production vehicles that are being sold with R compound tires from the factory. The Porsche GT2/GT3, Viper ACR, 430 Scuderia, Gallardo LP/560, Exige are some that come to mind. Most sports cars don't come with R comps from the factory simply because they aren't ideal for daily driving situations that the COMMON buyer would face. If the manufacturer figured EVERY buyer were only going to track the car (what we do in the game) they would throw R-comps on their cars guaranteed. So what's really realistic?

Aren't they all on semi-slicks? Full racing slicks are illegal on the road in most countries, illegal in the wet in all countries I believe. R compounds simulate full racing slicks, while S compounds simulate semi-racing slicks.

 

[The Outlaw]

Aren't they all on semi-slicks? Full racing slicks are illegal on the road in most countries, illegal in the wet in all countries I believe. R compounds simulate full racing slicks, while S compounds simulate semi-racing slicks.

Correct, in reality R-compounds in most cases are classified as a semi slick...as pretty much all R-compound tires are grooved and DOT legal. Now if we know for a fact that R series tires in the GAME are a true full slick and the S tires are a semi-slick, maybe I should take back what I said in my previous post in regards to some production vehicles coming with R-compounds/tires from the factory. The term R-tire/compound seems to have a diverse meanings around here...as either a full slick or a semi-slick (typical street R-compound tire), so it makes the argument rather confusing. Even if the S tires are supposed to be the semi-slick tire (typical street R-compound tire), the handling and breakaway characteristics are nowhere near where they should be for a semi-slick. They would be way too greasy with too slow of a break away IMO. I'm confused now haha!

 

[Stevisiov]

We all pride ourselves in having "the real driving simulator" yet when confronted with a choice for realism, and may I add in expert events only, you choose to ignore the realistic option.

Question:
When is the last time you have seen R compound tires on a stock street car? Note I am NOT against R tires on race/tuned cars.

Realistic answer: Never. You wouldn't have enough speed/power/brakes to even warm them up properly.

Gaymer answer: All the time, look, GTR MAD powa

Quick note: I don't dislike R tires on street cars, they make for great fun offline, yet they are NOT a realistic option in EXPERT events ONLINE if you take into consideration the EXPERT events are supposedly for the most realistic online driving experience.

nicely said. we have to pray that PD will show some sense when choosing options for online events (current Fuji would be better 500 than 550 ......)
:

I'm just going to post what I posted in the other thread.

For me this 'realistic' tyre choice argument breaks when you consider how realistic tyre restrictions are in racing. Racing cars generally use slicks, little argument there. What about stock cars? well stock cars don't race, there's dilemma no.1. stock cars have to have safety modifications first to be eligible for competition purposes, an issue that Gran Turismo can conveniently skirt as it doesn't have to conform to safety standards So who cares, lets imagine are cars now have fire extinguishers and role cages and are otherwise stock. In real life what series would they enter now, what regs would they be subject to?

Again there is a problem, different cars different race series, how can we possibly pin down realistic regs for each individual race event? Ok well in gran Turismo cars conform to Performance points, again not realistic, so we are going to struggle to compare to real life realistic regs.

Ok, so we choose 650 PP for this, and there are a good number cars that can enter this, tuned track day beasts, clio, amuse/opera 350z, infact basically all the track ready gran turismo tuned cars can enter, as can top of the line supercars as can bang for buck sports cars Evo, subaru, Rx-7. All of these have to be encompassed by 'realistic' tyre regs.

Right so that means, my Ferrari F40, his tuned Z06 and your Rx-7 have to run on the same type and compound of tyres width and radius excluded of course. Well not a problem normal race series allow slicks most commonly, so why can't they be used here? that wouldn't be unrealistic. Of course some superstock series run with ordinary street tyres but we still have the problem of all the cars having different stock tyres in real life, not to mention the cars aren't stock anyway because they all have to be tuned to meet 650PP, so running the tuned engine without upgrading the tyres is unrealistic.

Of course its not necessarily realistic to put slicks on stock cars either, in real life chucking slicks on your road car will destroy it quickly on the track, your looking at ruined drivetrains, toasted brakes, suspension damage, even a warped and distorted chassis (but don't worry our imaginary role cage will stop that )

You can't really say what is and isn't realistic tyre choices for race events because PD's physics model doesn't simulate mechanical damage, weather and other factors which determine tyre restrictions in real life. Just as long as I don't have N1's on my Ford GTLM or R3's on my Suzuki cervo then there is no realism problem. A 650PP race series could just as easily be run on sports or racing tyres and its really only down to preference on which would be the right choice. Personally I would go with 650PP or > for R tyres and 450 < for N tyres but who am I to say that is the right thing to do. Wouldn't it just be much easier if PD just say; 'why don't you choose yourself'? Or have some resistricted races and some de-restricted races?
__________________

The 'realistic argument just doesn't hold water.

timeattack07gt is right on the money, incidentally timeattack is run on street tyres is it not

[edit] @ timeattack07gt

The S tyre in Gran Turismo represents a sports tyre and not a cut slick. S1 coumpound for example is the type of tyre you would find on a 350Z according to the prologue manual. The R tyre in Gran Turismo is definetly a slick tyre even though it isn't modelled visually, currently there is no such thing as a cut slick in the Gran Tursimo world, in fact I would say PD is far behind in tyre modelling when it comes to simulation.

So you are right to assume that the sports tyres aren't really up to the job of 10 laps punishing racing for the high powered events. That of course also means that non of the cars you mentioned come with Gran Turismo R tyres as stock.

 

[Paulie]

Correct, in reality R-compounds in most cases are classified as a semi slick...as pretty much all R-compound tires are grooved and DOT legal. Now if we know for a fact that R series tires in the GAME are a true full slick and the S tires are a semi-slick, maybe I should take back what I said in my previous post in regards to some production vehicles coming with R-compounds/tires from the factory. The term R-tire/compound seems to have a diverse meanings around here...as either a full slick or a semi-slick (typical street R-compound tire), so it makes the argument rather confusing. Even if the S tires are supposed to be the semi-slick tire (typical street R-compound tire), the handling and breakaway characteristics are nowhere near where they should be for a semi-slick. They would be way too greasy with too slow of a break away IMO. I'm confused now haha!

It was more than visible via tread patterns in GT4 which tyres are what. S tyres are semi-slicks, and R tyres are full racing slicks with no tread pattern on them.

 

[Stevisiov]

It was more than visible via tread patterns in GT4 which tyres are what. S tyres are semi-slicks, and R tyres are full racing slicks with no tread pattern on them.

Nope, S-tyres are sports tyres and R tyres are slicks, there is no cut slick in Gran Turismo games as of yet.