Not a SIM

[Cyclonus]

I enjoyed pcars 1 but for the some reason I wasn’t feeling the second.....something just felt off.....it was a constant struggle and I was always fighting it. I did play 3 last night and enjoyed it. I’m looking forward to playing more today

 

[awaite85]

Just watched a review and the reviewer at the end called it "Gran Turismo for kids." Ouch.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Just watched a review and the reviewer at the end called it "Gran Turismo for kids." Ouch.

@Scaff . I get where he's coming from. And I remember when that was the talk of the town here at GTP. https://www.engadget.com/2008-04-05-kid-focused-gran-turismo-for-boys-could-become-gt5-feature.html

An accessible way in to understanding cars, tuning and motorsports.

 

[Scaff]

Just watched a review and the reviewer at the end called it "Gran Turismo for kids." Ouch.

That's me.

 

[Nacho Libre]

I remember trying the original Gran Turismo (when I was a kid) and was quickly put off by it and returned to the ridge racers, and kart games of the day... I only became interested in more "serious" car games with FM4, and its accessibility played a big part. So a Gran Turismo for kids doesn't sound bad If your company is intent in expanding their potential market. (The only GT I have played extensively was GT6, but always preferred FM, specially FM6.)

 

[ron24]

Of course that will be the very first thing, as with every single game.


Sorry, but my hands-on input will be late because it'll be a birthday gift from my wife for my birthday on September 30. After how PCARS2 went I figured it won't hurt to give SMS a few extra weeks to sort things out, you know. And it'll make the wife happy.

@Scaff knows what he's talking about. I'm flattered to be listed beside him as a source for commentary. Thank you.

Happy Birthday on Sep 30th. Awesome. I will be 49 Sep 30th. If PC3 is close to Shift I'll be happy.

 

[Wolfe]

Happy Birthday on Sep 30th. Awesome. I will be 49 Sep 30th. If PC3 is close to Shift I'll be happy.

The "Birthday Problem" in action, I suppose. I'll be 34. Happy early birthday.

 

[Stephen220378]

It's pretty much the opinion of every single sim racing channel out there. I really don't get why SMS would make a game that would alienate 80+% of the consumers who bought the first two PCars and make it a spiritual successor to a short lived series from almost a decade ago that was absolute garbage. Add in the factor that GRID last year absolutely bombed and showed them that very few people care for these half arcade, half simulation racing games, so who is this game for??

 

[slthree]

It's pretty much the opinion of every single sim racing channel out there

I believe 100% of the people on these forums also agree that it's not fully Sim.

However, many people seem to like the handling and there are some sort of physics under the hood that's nice.

As an eternal optimist, I am going to believe that this was a very quick "get it out the door before the new systems arrive" cash grab. It's also been said that they owed one more game under the bandai namco banner

So, I wake up everyday telling myself that when the PS5 and the new Xbox series arrives, we will have a full Sim with pit stops and tire wear and spotters and engineers and full race weekends.

Insert "fingers crossed" emoji here!

 

[Stephen220378]

I believe 100% of the people on these forums also agree that it's not fully Sim.

However, many people seem to like the handling and there are some sort of physics under the hood that's nice.

As an eternal optimist, I am going to believe that this was a very quick "get it out the door before the new systems arrive" cash grab. It's also been said that they owed one more game under the bandai namco banner

So, I wake up everyday telling myself that when the PS5 and the new Xbox series arrives, we will have a full Sim with pit stops and tire wear and spotters and engineers and full race weekends.

Insert "fingers crossed" emoji here!

I thought that myself with the Namco thing, Codemasters bought SMS mid-development so it's no real surprise that PCars3 was just thrown out there early to get it out the way, it seems suspiciously far too close to the Fast and Furious game release as well, like maybe they were told to get them released and start working on a CM game.

As for your optimism I wouldn't hold my breath, SMS have been a bit bizarre recently with PCars3, that ridiculous FF game and who can forget the supposed MadBox console

 

[slthree]

As for your optimism I wouldn't hold my breath, SMS have been a bit bizarre recently with PCars3, that ridiculous FF game and who can forget the supposed MadBox console

Sadly,I know you're right.

But, I can't help but think they could own both markets, Sim and Arcade, if they somehow blend PC2 and PC3.

Hoping against Hope

 

[GTsimms]

Well, it's interesting that it's not a sim. But, PC2 was hated. Now, the 66 Mustang in both PC2 and PC3 feel the exact same other than a more true to life tire model feeling. But, PC3 is Arcade? It's like the community can never move on from this discussion .

 

[Scaff]

Well, it's interesting that it's not a sim. But, PC2 was hated. Now, the 66 Mustang in both PC2 and PC3 feel the exact same other than a more true to life tire model feeling. But, PC3 is Arcade? It's like the community can never move on from this discussion .

A small minority keep saying this, the odd thing is that the majority don’t agree.

The physics underneath may be the same, but the handling balance of almost every car in PC3 is biased towards oversteer, hidden aids and input smoothing are all over both the pad and wheel input. While not a to the degree you find in Grid, the end result is that it simply drives like no other sim on the market, or for that matter like reality!

Oh and given the ******** before launch about all the sim you could want, the disjoint between the claims and the final product, and the fact it only just been over a week since launch, are you really surprised it’s still up for discussion? Nor was PC2 hated, more than enough evidence of that exists on this forum, so lying about that hardly helps your argument.

As a mod on the official forum, your position allows that semi-demand to carry some weight, here it doesn’t.

 

[BFIFE22]

I thought that myself with the Namco thing, Codemasters bought SMS mid-development so it's no real surprise that PCars3 was just thrown out there early to get it out the way, it seems suspiciously far too close to the Fast and Furious game release as well, like maybe they were told to get them released and start working on a CM game.

As for your optimism I wouldn't hold my breath, SMS have been a bit bizarre recently with PCars3, that ridiculous FF game and who can forget the supposed MadBox console

That's possible for PCARS3, however the F&F game was supposed to be released alongside the movie that was originally releasing in May before COVID, so that game really is just crap

 

[Stephen220378]

That's possible for PCARS3, however the F&F game was supposed to be released alongside the movie that was originally releasing in May before COVID, so that game really is just crap

That was my point, I should have said "it" rather than "them". No wonder the FF game was crap, we've seen gog knows how many rip offs from recent NFS games all the way back to Wheelman with Vin Diesel and none were anything special although NFS is a pretty solid arcade racer.

 

[Nacho Libre]

For a “not a sim” game there really shouldn’t be any kind of tuning setups, but there are, and I’m getting good results that do change the dynamics of the car.

 

[strela]

For a “not a sim” game there really shouldn’t be any kind of tuning setups, but there are, and I’m getting good results that do change the dynamics of the car.

Why? A lot of arcade racers has tuning options. Even NFS 2015 has tuning options!

 

[oneloops]

Why? A lot of arcade racers has tuning options. Even NFS 2015 has tuning options!

But in PCARS3 if you drive in a clean way with all aids off and abs off (too much assisted in PCARS3) and in a good pace the handling, references, driving skills needed approaching, going along and exiting turns (at least for GT3 cars) are very similar to anothers sims like ACC. Even over the curvs.

 

[terrible1fi]

But in PCARS3 if you drive in a clean way with all aids off and abs off (too much intrusive in PCARS3) and in a good pace the handling, references, driving skills needed approaching, going along and exiting turns (at least for GT3 cars) are very similar to anothers sims like ACC. Even over the curvs.

Everything except for braking, the braking distance is artificially way too short on pcars 3

 

[oneloops]

A small minority keep saying this, the odd thing is that the majority don’t agree.

The physics underneath may be the same, but the handling balance of almost every car in PC3 is biased towards oversteer, hidden aids and input smoothing are all over both the pad and wheel input. While not a to the degree you find in Grid, the end result is that it simply drives like no other sim on the market, or for that matter like reality!

Oh and given the ******** before launch about all the sim you could want, the disjoint between the claims and the final product, and the fact it only just been over a week since launch, are you really surprised it’s still up for discussion? Nor was PC2 hated, more than enough evidence of that exists on this forum, so lying about that hardly helps your argument.

As a mod on the official forum, your position allows that semi-demand to carry some weight, here it doesn’t.

Majority thinking is not always right, that's not a valid argument.

Everything except for braking, the braking distance is artificially way too short on pcars 3

Maybe a little, in my case I drive and brake very smoothly, maybe for a more aggresive driving it's is more noticeable... but not so much I think.
At some tracks that I've run a lot in ACC (silverstone, barcelone, Nurburgring GP/GT) I'm braking in the same references in both with a 1'45.6 time at barcelone for example.
Also at Mugello with AC and PCARS3.

I recommend abs OFF (and all aids off) for a more "sim-feel" (because in PCARS3 abs is too much assisted).

 

[strela]

But in PCARS3 if you drive in a clean way with all aids off and abs off (too much assisted in PCARS3) and in a good pace the handling, references, driving skills needed approaching, going along and exiting turns (at least for GT3 cars) are very similar to anothers sims like ACC. Even over the curvs.

By now everyone on this forum knows your point of view. I'm ok with that. I have put 30+h into the game. I love it, but still, there is no way anybody will convince me this is anything like a sim handling. However I just pointed out that tuning is not limited to sim racers. That is all.

 

[oneloops]

By now everyone on this forum knows your point of view. I'm ok with that. I have put 30+h into the game. I love it, but still, there is no way anybody will convince me this is anything like a sim handling. However I just pointed out that tuning is not limited to sim racers. That is all.

Just trying to show that if anyone wants to drive PCARS3 like a SIM it's possible to do, not trying to convince anyone, only giving a way to do that as PCARS3 can be played in very different ways (as many other games including AC, ACC, iRacing, etc).

It's more to show another perspective than most "youtubers" have shown in a clic-bait/polemical way about this game.

 

[GTsimms]

Just trying to show that if anyone wants to drive PCARS3 like a SIM it's possible to do, not trying to convince anyone, only giving a way to do that as PCARS3 can be played in very different ways (as many other games including AC, ACC, iRacing, etc).

It's more to show another perspective than most "youtubers" have shown in a clic-bait/polemical way about this game.

Well for an arcade game, it's interesting that I use the same ingame ffb settings as PC2, which I used Raw.

Arcade games were like Hard Drivin'. A simulation scale of 1-10 is needed.

 

[oneloops]

Well for an arcade game, it's interesting that I use the same ingame ffb settings as PC2, which I used Raw.

Arcade games were like Hard Drivin'. A simulation scale of 1-10 is needed.

It's difficult to scale, you can play all with so differents unreal aids on/off... With all unreal aids on, a game can be 2 and with all unreal aids off can be 9...
and some cars are closer to the real car at handling than others, some setups too...

Mercedes F1 simulator don't care about the curvs at handling nor at FFB, it's made to simulate other things.

In racing games, simulation is more a relative-subjective evaluation than an absolute condition in my opinion (I know this is not how majority thinks about it).

 

[GTsimms]

It's difficult to scale, you can play all with so differents unreal aids on/off... With all unreal aids on, a game can be 2 and with all unreal aids off can be 9...
and some cars are closer to the real car at handling than others, some setups too...

Mercedes F1 simulator don't care about the curvs at handling nor at FFB, it's made to simulate other things.

In racing games, simulation is more a relative-subjective evaluation than an absolute condition in my opinion (I know this is not how majority thinks about it).

The majority seems to want ffb like a 5-10 year old road vehicle on every car. Example: Buy a new car from the showroom floor and a lot of bumps are going to be muted or barely felt. You give that car some years and it's like your feeling every bump in the road.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Well for an arcade game, it's interesting that I use the same ingame ffb settings as PC2, which I used Raw.

Arcade games were like Hard Drivin'. A simulation scale of 1-10 is needed.

Driving simulation scale courtesy of @Scaff and his excellent reviews.

ACC - 9/10
pCars 2 - 8/10
F1 2020 - 7/10
pCars 3 - 6/10
Ultimate Racing 2D - 1/10

I get it, you're invested in pCars 3, that doesnt change the fact its way less of a sim than PC2 which itself had shortcomings. Brakes are to OP, tyres have too much grip, slides and loss of control is too forgiving etc*.

Yes, you can play it like a sim, but if you play it like a sim in a career mode hot lap or pacesetter for example, you won't get the best times.

*when compared to titles that have a higher level of driving simulation, I.e. ACC or even the previous PC2.

 

[eran0004]

For a “not a sim” game there really shouldn’t be any kind of tuning setups, but there are, and I’m getting good results that do change the dynamics of the car.

That just means that there is some sort of physics simulation under the hood, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s realistic and authentic. When people talk about driving sims they generally refer to the authenticity of the simulation, not just the fact there there is some kind of simulation.

 

[oneloops]

Driving simulation scale courtesy of @Scaff and his excellent reviews.

ACC - 9/10
pCars 2 - 8/10
F1 2020 - 7/10
pCars 3 - 6/10
Ultimate Racing 2D - 1/10

I get it, you're invested in pCars 3, that doesnt change the fact its way less of a sim than PC2 which itself had shortcomings. Brakes are to OP, tyres have too much grip, slides and loss of control is too forgiving etc*.

Yes, you can play it like a sim, but if you play it like a sim in a career mode hot lap or pacesetter for example, you won't get the best times.

*when compared to titles that have a higher level of driving simulation, I.e. ACC or even the previous PC2.

At least PCARS2 on ps4 pro, most cars were always hard-bumping and making impredictible reactions along every corner when going a little fast but not pushing hard, even being gentle with the throttle and the steering.

If I can't make a turn a bit fast without fighting with the wheel... yes it's more exciting in that way but not realistic.
That ruins any sim experience, even if PCARS2 has more sim options and is less assisted than PCARS3...

I haven't the PCARS2 pc version that is better for all I've heard/read.

 

[Scaff]

At least PCARS2 on ps4 pro, most cars were always hard-bumping and making impredictible reactions along every corner when going a little fast but not pushing hard, even being gentle with the throttle

You mean like in AC and ACC? Oh and for race cars, not road cars.

The majority seems to want ffb like a 5-10 year old road vehicle on every car. Example: Buy a new car from the showroom floor and a lot of bumps are going to be muted or barely felt. You give that car some years and it's like your feeling every bump in the road.

I 100% agree, and it’s something I’ve covered myself many times.

However for race prepped cars it’s quite a different thing, particularly at higher speeds and under high lateral loading. That would not however be just the road surface, but the dampers themselves. AC, ACC and PC3 I find all do this well, PC3 I do not find to be the case.

This also gets into NVH and SoP feel through FFB, it shouldn’t (for the most part) be present. However for a title that then gets into the question of do you remove it and have accuracy or keep it in and improve communication of the cars behaviour in an inaccurate manner? I’m fortunate enough to run a tactile rig, still not perfect, but it does help when you then remove the elements from FFB that in reality should not be present.

 

[oneloops]

You mean like in AC and ACC? Oh and for race cars, not road cars.

A lot more in PCARS2 than in AC and ACC. For race cars and road cars.