Nurburgring Race Series - Week 8 - Lotus Motorsport Elise

[Scaff]

@Dave ... please thank Scaff from us ... great write up and some nice pointers reagrding setup options.


And lastly .... whose Scaff?

Thanks for the kind words Kolyana

Regards

Scaff (the member who spends far to much time around the GT4 Tuning and settings forum)

 

[Dave_George]

@Dave ... please thank Scaff from us ... great write up and some nice pointers reagrding setup options.


And lastly .... whose Scaff?

Scaff can usually be found in the tuning and settings forums where he has written some excellent articles on brakes amongst other things, I find his advice, and his articles spot on in accuracy of info and presentation, he is most helpfull and an asset to GTP in my opinion.

regards

Dave

 

[Scaff]

Scaff can usually be found in the tuning and settings forums where he has written some excellent articles on brakes amongst other things, I find his advice, and his articles spot on in accuracy of info and presentation, he is most helpfull and an asset to GTP in my opinion.

regards

Dave

Far too kind, but thank you Dave

Always more than pleased to help and please do stop by the Tuning and Settings forum, lots of good stuff to be found.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Dave_George]

Far too kind, but thank you Dave

Always more than pleased to help and please do stop by the Tuning and Settings forum, lots of good stuff to be found.

Regards

Scaff

Yes theres some very interesting reading to be found there 👍

And likewise please feel free to drop by here and put us right or help out or even race if you feel like it!

thanks again

Dave

 

[Kolyana]

I used to frequent that forum all the time when I first joined GTP, but dropped out when a debate started on whether Poly have the suspension settings reversed (I'm not sure if that was ever decided or not).

With no one really knowing which way to alter a shock to get the desired effect, I figured the whole thing was more pot luck than anything else.

Did we ever discover if Poly' has suspension settings correct or reversed?

 

[Scaff]

I used to frequent that forum all the time when I first joined GTP, but dropped out when a debate started on whether Poly have the suspension settings reversed (I'm not sure if that was ever decided or not).

With no one really knowing which way to alter a shock to get the desired effect, I figured the whole thing was more pot luck than anything else.

Did we ever discover if Poly' has suspension settings correct or reversed?

Its still a subject of discussion now and again, the main problem in my eyes was that some of the people testing were jumping from one extreme setting to another. I personally spent a week testing settings in incremental steps and believe that suspension settings are not reversed.

The problem lies in the GT games of old, in which you could just go to extremes with no ill effects. In GT4 (as in the real world) extreme settings can have very strange results, so softening suspension to gain grip and remove oversteer may actualy cause oversteer if taken to far.

I quote Skip Barber's book Going Faster

In an effort to improve grip by softening the spring rate, you might result in losing grip due to the suspension's inability to deal with the roll.

Things just got more complicated with GT4, but the basic guidelines of real world tuning still apply, you just need to be careful how you apply them.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Steve57]

Just like to add my thanks to Scaff for his input, good stuff 👍
I will indeed be dropping by the tuning & Settings forum for a good look.
Again, thanks for taking the time.

Steve

 

[VTRacing]

I had a go with Scaff's settings, my thanks to him for giving us some ideas on what to try.

To be honest I found that setup to be a bit too soft in the rear, it seemed to be "flopping over" on the rear suspension; when the rear finally started sliding, it was very tough to catch.

Anyway, I played with the rear camber first (I put it down to 0.7) and came up with this:

Setup same as Scaff's post except rear camber at 0.7

T1: 0'45.021
T2: 1'20.064
T3: 1'48.864
T4: 2'40.144
T5: 3'18.508
T6: 3'45.590
T7: 4'35.625
T8: 5'18.376
T9: 5'39.867
T10: 6'22.791

After that, I stiffened up with rear slightly and found a car that I was sliding more comfortably. I was on a lap 2 seconds faster than these splits when I lost it at Pflanzgarten. I hope I'll get a chance to have another go because I know there's a lot of time left. I should even be able to give my CSL time a run for its money.

For the record my setup is now:

4.7/5.7
105/110
2/3
2.0/0.8

 

[Scaff]

I had a go with Scaff's settings, my thanks to him for giving us some ideas on what to try.

To be honest I found that setup to be a bit too soft in the rear, it seemed to be "flopping over" on the rear suspension; when the rear finally started sliding, it was very tough to catch.

Anyway, I played with the rear camber first (I put it down to 0.7) and came up with this:

Setup same as Scaff's post except rear camber at 0.7

T1: 0'45.021
T2: 1'20.064
T3: 1'48.864
T4: 2'40.144
T5: 3'18.508
T6: 3'45.590
T7: 4'35.625
T8: 5'18.376
T9: 5'39.867
T10: 6'22.791

After that, I stiffened up with rear slightly and found a car that I was sliding more comfortably. I was on a lap 2 seconds faster than these splits when I lost it at Pflanzgarten. I hope I'll get a chance to have another go because I know there's a lot of time left. I should even be able to give my CSL time a run for its money.

For the record my setup is now:

4.7/5.7
105/110
2/3
2.0/0.8

Don't worry about playing around with my settings, if they have formed a handy starting point and the suggestions have been useful then that great.

I have always believed that no 'ideal' settings exist as almost everyone has a personally driving style and the settings need to be tweaked to match this, in some cases they may look very different.

Dave and I have very similar driving styles it would seem, as my setting normally require minimal changes for his style.

Regards

Scaff

 

[VEXD]

I was wondering when VT's times would come up, i knew he was hiding something special.

wow.

Thats gonna be a tough time to beat.

I'd better get back to it.

Well done VT, Kent, we need more time on this i reckon.

Thats possible as far as im concerned, a T10 of 6'21, well thats just about as good a lap as im ever gonna get home, and thats the real trick isnt it.... getting the car home whilst on a flyer like that.

Hats off.....

VEXD goin home.

👍

 

[Dave_George]

Some great times coming in here, keep up the good work, I seem to be losing my time this week between T4 and T7 (Looking at Vtracing's times), maybe a better run out of the kink halfway along the back section may gain me a bit but i cant see 5 seconds there!!

Glad we seem to be getting to grips with the M/Sport Elise 👍

regards

Dave

 

[goixoye]

Even two-fisted this thing is a real handfull. Steering two-handed definitely feels more precise. The Nurb doesn't have too many places where your arms are all twisted up and you want to shift...which is why a began driving one-handed...places like Suzuka's hairpin. So far I've been well ahead of my ghost a few times of but keep losing the lap at places I don't usually have trouble. I think I've restarted about everywhere around this track this week...including before the lap even begins...which I hate to even admit to doing.

I think I may have been 3-4 seconds ahead...it's hard to tell since the split time comparisons aren't against my best lap...and sometimes there are no split time comparisons. Not sure if that's the two-handed driving or the additional HP...immediately after my best lap so far the garage was showing 304HP. It's probably a combination of both of these things. Hopefully I'll be able to bring home one of these quicker laps

 

[Dave_George]

I think I've restarted about everywhere around this track this week...including before the lap even begins...which I hate to even admit to doing.

Dont worry about that at all!

I have had many many restarts where i have overcooked things coming into the first turn after the start finish line.....and i too have had to restart after crashing before the line....this morning i had a quick go and by the number of errors i was making just getting to the start line i gave up about 5 mins after starting. 👎

There is a definate time when im better on GT4, somtimes i just cant seem to concentrate and co-ordinate myself, due to working shifts I never seem to find that ideal time...

cheers

Dave

 

[Kolyana]

Goixoye, I've come off on the first right hander after the STARTING point, taken the next right hander before the starting line too wide COUNTLESS times, come off on the left hander after the starting line COUNTLESS times and often ... often ... often ... don't make it to T1.

Don't sweat it man, that's what us mortals have to put up with

 

[goixoye]

Dave said we couldn't use NOS. He never said anything about rocket boosters or flubber.
I just needed a break from the driving. Isn't this a great game?

 

[hispeed]

Nice car. Amazing track. S2-tires takes away all the fun. Why upgrade everything without upgrading the tires?? Makes no sense. Who likes to drive with summer-tires during winther?
I'm thinking about starting a thread with driving all cars in GT4 stock on the ring, that would be funnier than acting like bambi on steroids on ice...............

 

[Dave_George]

Nice car. Amazing track. S2-tires takes away all the fun. Why upgrade everything without upgrading the tires?? Makes no sense. Who likes to drive with summer-tires during winther?
I'm thinking about starting a thread with driving all cars in GT4 stock on the ring, that would be funnier than acting like bambi on steroids on ice...............

Thanks for the comments hispeed, I personally think the tyres are just fine for this car 👍

They represent where we are in this series currently, and dont forget they are the equivalent of a medium compound cut slick circuit tyre, Goixoyes picture demonstrates this quite well

Took a look at the leaderboard earlier (Thanks Bart), i see Onlyme and Goixoye are exchanging paint again this week, Ive never seen splits so close throughout the whole lap!! Good racing guys!

Cool photo by the way Ronny, love the flames

regards

Dave

 

[Kolyana]

Goixoye, this week is yours ... by a mile; I can't even get competitive with *anyone* ... I'm so far off the pace and can't bring it any closer: Can't handle the car, can't make clean runs.

I've put too much time into this as it is and even though I'm not going to throw in the towel regarding the track, there is no way on this planet I'm going to challenge you this week.

@Scaff ... nice setup ... worked well for me; very stable car (or, a lot *more* stable) ... shame I couldn't do your setup proud.

@Kent ... I have no idea on this planet how you do it ... your time (for me) is unbelievable ... it's not even in the same hemisphere.


EDIT: 6'37.090

I need to stop this for the day ... my bloody hands are shaking. Not a great finish, but clean.

 

[goixoye]

Well done. I couldn't beat you with tears in your eyes...maybe I can beat you since your hands are bleeding. Did you drive so much (or so intensely) that you caused your hands to bleed? Of course you didn't say it was YOUR blood on your hands....have you killed somebody?....maybe that would explain the shaking.

Looks like the Kolinator is back in the water after me (and the rest of us). So right now you're about 0.3s ahead at T10...and probably a little more at the line. Looks like I have to clean up the lap where Ive been ahead of my ghost to have a chance at beating you. Pressure's on...and this is not a great car to be driving when you're on edge, pushing the limit trying to beat an accomplished driver. I really need to be relaxed when driving this tricky thing.

 

[Kent]

@Kent ... I have no idea on this planet how you do it ... your time (for me) is unbelievable ... it's not even in the same hemisphere.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to run this race for some time now.
Gonna get a few laps in later.

Hopefully I will come back with a final time submission. 👍
Back later,
Till then,
-

 

[Speedy Samurai]

I have worked out a setup I really like, but the Nurb just scoffs at me. I am fairly fast through the first half and then just before Wipperman I seem apprehensive. Maybe I don't want to waste a good first half-lap and so I turn into a chicken.

T1 46.060
T2 1'20.966
T4 2'43.823
T7 4'42.821
T10 6'34.627

This will probably be my submitted run. My nerves are a little shot.

 

[Kolyana]

@Goixoye ... hehehe ... man, you make competition so much fun 👍

The blood, unfortunately, is mine ... every lap, every corner, was sheer hell ... so much concentration, so much effort ... I don't think I've ever gripped the wheel so tightly or had my heart pound with such adrenaline.

I'm not 100% happy with my finish ... so this sucker is down to the wire, for sure, and right now I think you have it. That slight left kink on the long, long straight after T10 ... everytime I try to take it flat out, my car loses traction on the small hill and I'm off ... everytime. If you're hurtling through here, I'm behind you at the line ... pure and simple.

I'd like to find another second at the line ... but lord knows if my little faint heart can take the pressure!

 

[Dave_George]

That slight left kink on the long, long straight after T10 ... everytime I try to take it flat out, my car loses traction on the small hill and I'm off ... everytime. If you're hurtling through here, I'm behind you at the line ... pure and simple.

Nat do you mean as you go under the bridge or the left kink after that? If you mean the one after then i sympathise as that is where i was losing it, problem here is that in previous weeks we have been able to take this flat out with maybe a small lift, try this corner in the lotus flat out or lift and it bites back.....i find that as you go downhill after the bridge brake in a straight line and get back on about half throttle through the kink.....any faster and i screw up the lap...

Ive been working loads at the minute and so glad i got a clean lap in earlier in the week as i havent touched week 8 for days, quick bit of testing for week 9 was fun and will be interesting to see the outcome of the voting....

cheers

Dave

 

[Kolyana]

There's a bridge? I'm too intently gripping the wheel and staring forward to notice!!!

After T10 there's a long, long straight and the only break in this is a slight, slight left kink that you can typically take flat out in previous weeks. It kinda goes slightly up hill, and then drops down to the left right on the brow of the hill. Antoniusbuche?

 

[Kolyana]

BTW Dave ... you're in England, right? What the hell are you doing up at this time in the morning???

 

[Dave_George]

There's a bridge? I'm too intently gripping the wheel and staring forward to notice!!!

After T10 there's a long, long straight and the only break in this is a slight, slight left kink that you can typically take flat out in previous weeks. It kinda goes slightly up hill, and then drops down to the left right on the brow of the hill. Antoniusbuche?

Ah right so your losing it before T11 then....there is a bridge over the track as it bends to the left slightly, this should still be flat out but it can be deceptive if your line is wrong, the grass on the right comes up mighty quick.

I try and stay over to the left as i go through here seems a fairly safe line which allows me to let the car naturally move over to the right for the heavy braking area after T11 (The section i thought you were talking about!).

Try hugging that kerb on the left a bit and see if that works, entry speed for me is about 175ish i think as the uphill section robs you a bit of top speed seeing as the Lotus is not the torquiest machine.

Hope this helps you in your quest!

regards

Dave

 

[goixoye]

@Dave, Checked the 1st post but couldn't find the deadline. Is it Sunday or Monday this week....I think we've switched to Mondays? Will it be that way the rest of the series or will special circumstances cause it to float?...I think I remember one week that GTP was down or something. Also I assume 9pm GMT?

BTW, I mean no disrespect to Skaff but I like my set-up better. It's probably only because I've driven mine so much more and am more familiar with it's "behavior". I found Skaff's set-up "unpredictable" at spots (compared to mine). I was driving Skaff's like I would drive mine and the next thing I knew I re-starting at places where I didn't have problems with mine. I may not have given Skaff's a fair shot but I decided to stick with what I knew best. I gave up after about 5-10 re-starts.

 

[Dave_George]

@Dave, Checked the 1st post but couldn't find the deadline. Is it Sunday or Monday this week....I think we've switched to Mondays? Will it be that way the rest of the series or will special circumstances cause it to float?...I think I remember one week that GTP was down or something. Also I assume 9pm GMT?

BTW, I mean no disrespect to Skaff but I like my set-up better. It's probably only because I've driven mine so much more and am more familiar with it's "behavior". I found Skaff's set-up "unpredictable" at spots (compared to mine). I was driving Skaff's like I would drive mine and the next thing I knew I re-starting at places where I didn't have problems with mine. I may not have given Skaff's a fair shot but I decided to stick with what I knew best. I gave up after about 5-10 re-starts.

Hi Ronny,

Apologies I never did announce the change to mondays and yes your right, deadline is monday 9PM GMT 👍

Regarding the set-up, as we already said, Scaffs settings may not work for everyone, the one thing that always strikes me is how differently people must drive cars on GT4 for set-ups to feel "right" or "wrong" when tested.......

I find Scaffs settings usually work for me as i like the style he uses and on earlier weeks we came up with very similar results that required minimal changes to work.

It hightlights why when people post a question asking for a set up for a certain car they should be carefull, as the suggestions that come back may be completely inappropriate for that persons driving and send them furthur in the wrong direction at the same time. The idea of my series was to try and learn some basics of car setup using sports/semi race suspension and then tune to personal taste from there encouraging people to change settings themselves....I believe that the ring really highlights if you are moving in the right OR wrong direction with this 👍

I think overall we have done very well so far with that goal, i now know how to tune out understeer/oversteer....something i didnt know 8 weeks ago!

When we moved to semi race i started struggling but to me Scaffs settings just showed me that semi race was by default stiffer and that for the Ring we needed to soften and lift the car for it to work for me....

Im prediciting that with Race suspension that effect may need to be applied even more so..!

cheers

Dave

 

[Kolyana]

You know, I have a 'problem' with ym driving, and that is I always try and straighten every corner with the outside to inside to outside rule ... even ones there this is then a bad thing (your explanation being a good case in point, Dave).

I need to be able to re-evaluate how to take some corners and I'll try your advise.

 

[VEXD]

These rules are broken when being tutored by the ring Koly, thats part of its charm...

In a sense, you need to throw away the book and start again in some places, though not always!

There are sections where you must drive the entire inner kerb of the corner in order to be in position for the next turn.

I have to say i applaud scaff for his efforts, and VT's even more so.... i have my final time, and its not fast enough, but i havent smashed the wheel, which i nearly did, so at least although im not top or even second, i still have the apparatus to compete next week.

Keep it up all!

👍