Obsolete cars in GT5

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Veitchy_88

Veitchy_88

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Veitchy_88
I was thinking the other day about GT5 and its relationships to prologue.

I was fliping through the car list in prologue and it hit me that sever of the cars included are obsolete. For example, we are onto a new model of BMW Z4 and the Mk 6 VW GTi just off the top of my head.

This got me to thinking, "how many last gen cars are going to be in GT5, and and are any of the new models going to be included or replace the older ones."

Dont get me wrong, I will buy GT5, I will love it and my social life will suffer dearly for it. However, If a number of the cars are older models when a more contemporary variant exists but isnt in the final game, that would be a bit disapointing.

Now, I realise that prologue has been out for a while now which may affect my outlook of this, but I was wondering if anyone elso felt this way or if my concern is even legitimate?

I would dearly love to be wrong.
 
You also do realize the "new Z4" and "Mk6 Golf" you're talking about are 2009 models, and GT5 Prologue released in late 2007 ?

Old cars, cheap cars, simple car are what make GT so unique. Most games only have the fastest super cars, GT has everything from the first motor carriages to the latest prototypes.
 
It is very personal how people want their cars.

I would like modern and old versions.
e.g.: I do prefer the old EVO IX and Subaru WRX '05 in GT5p to the new versions.

It is great that people launch their cars through the GT series, SLS, 458 Italia, ...

but there will always be a trade off and nobody will get their exact choice.
Most of us here are convinced to get a hell of a good time with what will be in there.

And maybe later, updates, downloadable content, more tuning .... Who knows what the future holds for us?
 
I was just pondering that one myself.

Looking on the bright-side, it could be that if PD are working on other aspects of the game, that would give the modelling teams a bit longer extra to keep adding cars. I suspect the architecture of the game means they can keep slotting in new cars as they go.

Even if it did ship with some newer models missing I'm still praying that new car packs are regularly available for DLC - not because I crave newer cars, but because I crave more cars!
 
I remember something like this arised before. I would like both old and new versions of a car. But if we can't have both, then I honestly would prefer the old versions, even though I would like the newer ones instead, and here's why: with time, old cars get hard to find, so I had rather have PD model those cars while they can, and add the newer cars as time goes on.
 
Couldnt care less about super cars and new cars. I much prefer the 60s, 70, 80s and 90s. Tunning up the used cars is the way forward.
Much more run and more realistic of what you find in day to day driving.
 
Mmm. I'm getting the vibe here. I don't have a problem with old cars per se, indeed, some lines of cars have gotten worse with each progressive model. I'd just hate to see more recent, great cars not make it in. i.e. Renault Megane R26.R, Focus RS come to mind. Certainly with rare cars i can agree, but with regular production cars it is a bit different.

For example, many motoring magazines have compared the MK6 GTi favourably with the previous MK5, saying it is a good progresion of the make and as better a car as could be imagined within the constraints of the cars role. Considering that the MK5 isnt exactly a rare car or one cramed full of historical significance, It would make more to move up to the MK6.
 
Veitchy_88
For example, many motoring magazines have compared the MK6 GTi favourably with the previous MK5, saying it is a good progresion of the make and as better a car as could be imagined within the constraints of the cars role. Considering that the MK5 isnt exactly a rare car or one cramed full of historical significance, It would make more to move up to the MK6.
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At the same time, cars like the Honda Civic type R must be represented in each of their forms because they often change considerably with each new model.
 
There are no such thing as "obsolete" cars! Classic cars my friend... classic cars (show respect :))
 
Better to keep the Mk V, add the Mk VI and ditch the MkIV.

In general I think the game benefits from a smattering of all that has gone before - part of the appeal. I want to see some of my personal old favourites - Pug 205GTi, Golf GTi (I, II, V), Fiat Coupe, Alfa GTV, VW Corrado would be nice.

BUT, it absolutely has to have enough current cars to make the game part of its "time and place" - Abarth 500, Alfa Mito, Focus RS, Scirroco...
 
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Goldrusher
Old cars, cheap cars, simple car are what make GT so unique. Most games only have the fastest super cars, GT has everything from the first motor carriages to the latest prototypes.
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This.
 
I suppose if PD is talking about doing downloadable content, we could see a lot of new models that way. Should be interesting to see how they address this issue of new models.
 
Would you call the KPGC10 GT-R obsolete? No, in fact I would call it classic.
 
Wow, I think it's a little bit harsh to call a car "obsolete" just because a new model/line has already came out, don't you think?
 
I honestly want some old cars also... I want the E36 M3!
 
I honestly don't feel that any of the older model cars should be replaced at all as long as there's a good difference in overall appearance or performance.

For instance with the Golf...I really liked how in GT4 they had every major Golf MK, so to me, it would make sense to just add the MK6, and leave the rest in the game. The more the merrier, the more to collect, and the more choices us gamers have. Some people may hate the MK6, but love the MK5....if that's the case, then that person has both to choose from.

Now, things that could get replaced are a lot of the skylines, miatas and a lot of the Japanese duplicates. Yes, technically there may be slight differences in some... and some people might appreciate that, but how many R34's do you need in a game unless there's a significant difference between them??
 
Veitchy_88
I was thinking the other day about GT5 and its relationships to prologue.

I was fliping through the car list in prologue and it hit me that sever of the cars included are obsolete. For example, we are onto a new model of BMW Z4 and the Mk 6 VW GTi just off the top of my head.

This got me to thinking, "how many last gen cars are going to be in GT5, and and are any of the new models going to be included or replace the older ones."

Dont get me wrong, I will buy GT5, I will love it and my social life will suffer dearly for it. However, If a number of the cars are older models when a more contemporary variant exists but isnt in the final game, that would be a bit disapointing.

Now, I realise that prologue has been out for a while now which may affect my outlook of this, but I was wondering if anyone elso felt this way or if my concern is even legitimate?

I would dearly love to be wrong.
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I feel the same way :S
 
If GT5 doesn't have the latest models, it would be a major disappointment. GT4 was very up to date, even bringing out some models that wouldn't until 2 years after GT4 was released. I'm expecting to see the Golf Mk V and VI for example, both generations of Ford Focus RS and both BMW Z4 models. Naturally, I wouldn't mind seeing all the Golfs in the game. But having the latest are just as important to GT as having the classics.
 
There's a difference between obsolete mundane cars and classic cars.

I'm all for the inclusion of classic cars, and some used cars are nice, but i believe the original post brings up a good point.

Since many of GT4 cars will be re-used (maybe all of them) then it's safe to say GT5 will have a bunch of obsolete models.

You can bet the press will slam the game for that, but we don't know for sure how they will handle the car roster.

There's a huge difference between the inclusion of classic x obsolete models. The game taking forever to be shipped is a cause of this, a good example of it, are the Super GT and WRC models.

Hopefully PD thought about this too 👍
 
let'S make this clear:

NO CAR IS OBSOLETE!

not because it's old, not because it's been replaced, not because it's running on fuel, not because it's big, not because it's small, ESPECIALLY not because it's not new.

I want a car and i want IT in E.V.E.R.Y generation, from the first one to the latest one.

Actually i would be even more sadder if GT5 doesnt have more old cars.

As much as I want the brand new z4, i also want the z1, i want the z3 M coupe, i want the 323i (e21! for those who knows, i am not talking to the 10 year old little kid who's gonna post after me)

i want the e30, i want my car in there, the e36 too.

THOSE are far from being obsolete.
 
RacingFreak2k3
but how many R34's do you need in a game unless there's a significant difference between them??
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Moreover, if you can't find any info on most of them in the Internet. :grumpy: Yes, I have tried to find information on each one of them (road versions), and apparently, the V-Spec II that can be bought new should have a carbon fiber hood, but the one with the carbon fiber hood is the V-Spec II N1, and Wikipedia doesn't even mention the car. True, I found a page in the Internet mentioning the V-Spec II N1, but that's it, just the name.
 
Gran Turismo is one to include multiple versions of new and old cars... when the car is of Japanese origins. Skylines, GT-R's, Supra's etc. have all been included to such a detail that there are few editions that aren't put in.

I don't want fewer Japanese cars, if it means they'll put in European and American cars on the same scale.

Example of American car lines: Camaro, Mustang and Corvette
Example of European car lines: Golf/GTI/R, BMW M, Audi A4/S4 (If Porsche is ever included then I'm sure they'll at LEAST have ever Porsche Turbo ever made, if they don't then they're doing something wrong.)

I, in particular, am very passionate about GTI's and the line has had some great models over the years. GTI's that are worth being included:

-MkI GTI
-MkII GTI
-MkIII GTI VR6 (I think the lowest note in the GTI line)
-MkIV 337, 20th AE, GLI 04.5, R32
-MkV GT, GTI, 30th AE, TDI Cup Edition Jetta, R32
-MkVI GTI, R

I've also thought about the new brands that are making appearances in GT for the first time. Will we be limited to only the new Gallardo? At least include the Superleggera... but if you did, I can only imagine it wouldn't be hard to model some different wheels, a different skin and remove the wing to make the standard version. The same goes for Ferrari. We'll most likely see both the F430 and F458, but what about the 360 Challenge Stradale? And the 355 Challenge before that? At the very least include the hot-shoe versions if not the standard street models.. but again, if you do all the modelling, why not just re-skin and mock up the interior and have yourself two cars?
 
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A car only becomes obsolete if it is not drivable. If you can drive it, its not obsolete.
 
Many many many cars should be left out from GT4. For starters, PD needs to lose some nationalism and scrap some of those Japanese box cars. Too slow, too unrecognized and they just take up space. This isn't to say that slow cars need to be removed (because they're very essential especially towards the beginning of GT Mode).
 
I see where he's coming from, and I agree with the OP.

"Obsolete" biologocally speaking, means rudimentary or poorly developed as compared with its counterpart in other individuals of a related species.
In car terms: It is not as good or as well developed as the model that was brought out to replace it. Simple.

To say cars included in GT5 might become obselete is a logically understandable statement. Take for example, the Porsche 356 and the new 911. Now to say that the 356 is obselete, is to say that it is no londer used, working and out of date. But to say it's obselete when compared to the 911, makes sense as it is not as well designed, developed, reliable, fast, or comfortable etc etc.

Now I'm sure PD will try to include as many new cars as possible like they did in GT4. But to ask for a car that was released a week before GT5 was, is a bit ambitious.
Remember we got the Evora before it was released, and we also got the California very quickly. Meaning PD had to model each of these cars in a short period, or they got early access to the designs and specs. (considering that they say it takes 6 months for each car to be released)

So when Kaz says no to DLC. The cars that replace their older siblings, become obselete in comparison, but you don't know that because you haven't driven them yet. In a sense, GT5P is slowly becoming obselete as more and more get bored of it and start playing other games, but it will most certainly become obselete when GT5 is released because the latter is so much more developed. But because we have not tried GT5 yet, we do not know that, we just know it will be bigger and better, which makes GT5P seem obselete. Just as the Mk 5 golf would feel if there was no Mk6 in the game...
 
fasj6418
There's a difference between obsolete mundane cars and classic cars.

I'm all for the inclusion of classic cars, and some used cars are nice, but i believe the original post brings up a good point.

Since many of GT4 cars will be re-used (maybe all of them) then it's safe to say GT5 will have a bunch of obsolete models.

You can bet the press will slam the game for that, but we don't know for sure how they will handle the car roster.

There's a huge difference between the inclusion of classic x obsolete models. The game taking forever to be shipped is a cause of this, a good example of it, are the Super GT and WRC models.

Hopefully PD thought about this too 👍
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Old cars are already in digitized form at PD. All they have to do create newer high-poly models from their CAD files to replace the low-poly models they created from the same CAD files.

It doesn't take forever to model a car. What takes a long time is downsizing the CAD file to a size that the game console processor can digest.

Stands to reason, it's these old cars that were done first, and any delay caused by game programming (note: an entirely different thing than a delay caused by netcode programming or marketing or Sony demands on PD) would be caused by them modelling new cars.

In that respect, I'd rather have my full GT4-GT5 port now, and damn all these new models. Just give them to me as DLC.

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Oh... and the only difference between classic and obsolete are depending on who you ask. To a footballer, a 993 Porsche 911 is old. To guys like us, it's a classic.

Similarly, cars like the R30 - R34 Skyline GT-Rs and non-R models, various Miatas, RX7s, even Corollas... are considered classics by those who like them. The original Fiat Abarth 500... the original Mini... what other console game actually gives you a chance to wring them out on a modern track? Together?

I may personally not like the IROC... but there are people who like this car, and it's for their sake that PD has included it. I just hope GT5 also includes the Fox Body 5.0. :lol:

You get to a certain age, you learn to appreciate everything automotive. There is a certain joy in driving such diverse machinery as a Suzuki Alto and a full-sized pickup. Of course, neither is as raw or powerful as a BMW M5 or even a Nissan 350Z... but if you can't have fun flying sideways through the gravel at just 30 mph... there's something seriously wrong with you.

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I'm not concerned about the number of "old" cars in GT5. All that means is that once I do finally get it, it'll be playable for that much longer. Months after I'd finished the missions in GT4, I'd still be putting the disc in at odd times... I'd buy an unusual car, fling it around the track. Buy another unusual one.... fling it around again... this is where the idea for Road&Trek came from... the joy of lapping cars just for the hell of it. And there are several more half-done stories that will forever remain merely in my head (and hard disk)...

The story of taking a 1000+ hp Escudo round the 'Ring in just six minutes, on the edge of oversteer the whole time.

The story of tuning a Merc SL to 1000 hp on street tires, leaving the dynamic stability control on, and complaining loudly (to myself) about "all those electronic nannies the Germans put in..."

The story of tuning and rallying my puny front-wheel drive sedan against more powerful machinery... on the same tires that the computer uses. Never knowing if I've built up enough of a lead through the tight side streets of Paris to keep that rally EVO from overtaking me down the back straight... as we clatter over cobblestones as old as the city itself...

Stories of replicating a Saleen Mustang... or driving a Mazda Demio and a Peugeot 106 downhill through an Italian village at breakneck speeds.

In the end, I spent so much time living those stories, I didn't have enough time to write them. :lol:

Variety is the spice of life. And variety is the soul of Gran Turismo. Without it, it'd be just another racing game.
 
yes the e21 and e-30, specially m-3 is a must have
 
Lucas
Moreover, if you can't find any info on most of them in the Internet. :grumpy: Yes, I have tried to find information on each one of them (road versions), and apparently, the V-Spec II that can be bought new should have a carbon fiber hood, but the one with the carbon fiber hood is the V-Spec II N1, and Wikipedia doesn't even mention the car. True, I found a page in the Internet mentioning the V-Spec II N1, but that's it, just the name.
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Too many different versions of the same car(skyline R-34) with no real differances. Keep 2 or 3 and replace them with more aussie cars 💡
 
Same thing would have happened with the first ever Gran Turismo as it also to 5 years to develop. The reason Kaz has continued with Gran Turismo is partly because the first game was a huge hit.
 
Ok. I hear what everyone is saying.

Perhaps I should rephrase my concern, as a couple of of others have said it better than me here. My concern is not obsolete cars (it is true that no car is ever truly oblosete, at least not to enthusiasts) I just dont want it to feel out of date.

I don't have a problem with old cars. Alot, nay, most of my favorite cars are old. Ther MKII Jaguar is possibly the best sleeper ever, anything with the words 440 six-pack is almost bound to be a dream, a Muira is still the most beautifull car ever (to me) and the only thing better than the latest model MX5 is the original. Old cars are fantastic. They tend to be less complicated, more involving to drive and more, well, alive. One of the thigs I loved about GT4 was that it had so many more older cars than GT3, particularly more muscle cars and some cool vintage Japanese stuff I was previously unfamilar with.

Others have mentioned the joy of modifying and winning in older cars. I have played through GT3 and 4 a couple of times and i almost invariably start with an original MX5 or a Trueno because they drive well, take to mods like a duck to water and still ,look great to boot (subjective.) I recon it is more satisfying to win in a modified car that you have tested and honed rather than buy a Zonda or Escudo and thrash everybody. That is where the true gem of this game lies.

Old cars are wicked, more of them I say. I just like that I also get to drive some of the more recent performance cars. I just dont want the game to feel a bit out of date, though with the recent talks of DLC that may not be such an issue :)👍. Its all good.

Everything all of you have said is true in its own way, and heres to GT5 sooner rather than later. Personaly, i cant wait to punt a Jensen Interceptor round the 'Ring again. IN HD

All the best. see ya'll online.
 
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