Oil Change Myth Busted

[KniX]

They say that changing the oil robs you of usable PP. The way this is proven is they take 2 of the same car, one they leave stock,the other they get an oil change then use the power limiter to bring the hp back to stock hp, and in doing so they show the car with the oil change and power limiter is 1 to 2 pp higher than the car that has not had the oil change.

The problem with this test is that the car with an oil change and power limiting does not have the same power as the stock car, it has more torque. It is the higher torque responsible for the pp difference. This shows issues with using the power limiter & doesn't actually show any benefit from not changing the oil on any car be it for short or long term use.

For example,

The Abarth 500 stock has 133hp/133ft-lb @ 371PP

Oil Change Then with 95.8% Power Limiting

The Abarth 500 now has 133hp/140ft-lb @ 372PP

It would appear as though the car with an oil change is higher PP for no reason if you overlook the torque.

Take the Same 2 cars and build them to the same hp and tq and even though one car has an oil change and the other does not, they will have the same pp. You can even go so far as to have more hp on the car with an oil change but still less pp than the car without an oil change as long as the tq is lower.

For Example

Example 1
Abarth 500 with an oil change + Stage-1 Engine Tuning makes 153hp/151ft-lb @ 390PP

Abarth 500 with no oil change + Racing Exhaust & Isometric Manifold makes 154hp/147ft-lb @ 390PP

Example 2
Abarth 500 with an oil change + Racing Exhaust & Sports Computer makes 167hp/154ft-lb @ 400PP

Abarth 500 with no oil change + Intake Tuning, Stage 1 ECU & Sports Exhaust makes 166hp/161ft-lb @ 401PP

This car with an oil change has more hp and less PP than the car without an oil change

Myth Busted

 

[Motor City Hami]

Joined yesterday and already busting myths. 👍 Like a mad, evil "court-jester." Kudos.

 

[KniX]

Joined yesterday and already busting myths. 👍 Like a mad, evil "court-jester." Kudos.

Thanks. The more Myth that get busted the better wouldn't you agree.

 

[Ronald6]

 

[DolHaus]

The oil change gives +5% power and the limiter can affect different engines in different ways so I suppose on some cars you might get slightly different results. I'd be interested to see the relative losses on something like a Veyron or similar high powered car to see if the results followed a similar path.

I'm not disagreeing with your idea at all, I didn't even realize this was a thing until I read this post I'm just considering the variables as the torque and bhp peaks might react differently when knocking 5bhp of a motor compared to 50bhp and these both go into the PP equations (5% engine limiter might reduce torque% more than BHP% or vice versa perhaps?)

Good to see some investigations though, keep it up 👍

 

[KniX]

Yeah the pattern remains the same even with a Veyron

Veyron '13 with an oil change and Sport Cat makes 1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP

Veyron '13 no oil change + Semi-Racing Exhaust & Isometric Exhaust manifold makes 1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP


Myth Fully Busted

 

[Motor City Hami]

Not really a myth. Many of us already knew the numbers behind it. A better question is which situation is better for lap times, more torque or more HP?

 

[soupcan]

A no oil change 500 can have 167hp/154ft-lb at 400pp using stage 1 engine tuning, semi racing exhaust and sports converter. I think your missing the point of why an oil change is frowned apon when tuning a car for a set pp.

 

[KniX]

A no oil change 500 can have 167hp/154ft-lb at 400pp using stage 1 engine tuning, semi racing exhaust and sports converter. I think your missing the point of why an oil change is frowned apon when tuning a car for a set pp.

This confirms my point. The 500 with an oil change + Racing Exhaust & Sports Computer makes 167hp/154ft-lb @ 400PP the exact same HP/FT-LB/PP, so why is an oil change frowned upon aside from the PP reason?

 

[KniX]

Not really a myth. Many of us already knew the numbers behind it. A better question is which situation is better for lap times, more torque or more HP?

Oil Change– Are you tuning a short term car or a long term car? For a short term car, do not perform an oil change. It robs power at the same PP level. Take any car and note the stock PP and HP levels (example: Scirocco R ‘10 at 438PP/252HP). Next perform an oil change and note the new PP/HP levels (Scirocco @ 445PP/265HP). Finally, use the power limiter to re-establish the car’s original PP level (Scirocco needs 94.5 power limiter to equal 438PP). The new HP rating for the Scirocco is now 250, a 2hp drop from stock (or 0.8% lower horsepower). I have tested this on many cars in GT6 and the average drop is a 1% horsepower loss. If you are using a car for a short period of time, do not perform oil changes. There are more efficient ways to gain power for a PP build. If I were entered into a weekly racing series I might consider purchasing a brand new car for each event and enter without an oil change.

A better question is which situation is better for lap times, more torque or more HP?

Thats a question that the power limiter can shed some light on. with it you can vary the HP/Tq balance with the same PP, and it will depend on the car and driver as to if they like more tq or more hp.

 

[praiano63]

GT5 speed test track would be perfect to check this kind of things...

 

[soupcan]

This confirms my point. The 500 with an oil change + Racing Exhaust & Sports Computer makes 167hp/154ft-lb @ 400PP the exact same HP/FT-LB/PP, so why is an oil change frowned upon aside from the PP reason?

Reason being, HP vs. TQ. Go to 450pp with an oil changed 500, the best numbers your going to get just using engine tuning is 243hp/210ft-lb.

A no oil change 500 at 450pp is going to be 245/202ft-lb.

No take both car stock other than 450pp engine tuning to Daytona with RS tires, the no oil change car will be .8 faster every lap. Those 2hp are huge there.

Now go to Tsukuba and the higher ft-lb car will be faster with racing sorts, switch to Comfort Softs and the higher HP/ lower Ft-lb car is faster because the high FR-lb car will be spinning the CS tires on corner exit.

Non racecar Seasonals are run on lower grip tires so most tune for lower ft-lb and higher hp.

 

[KniX]

Reason being, HP vs. TQ. Go to 450pp with an oil changed 500, the best numbers your going to get just using engine tuning is 243hp/210ft-lb.

A no oil change 500 at 450pp is going to be 245/202ft-lb.

No take both car stock other than 450pp engine tuning to Daytona with RS tires, the no oil change car will be .8 faster every lap. Those 2hp are huge there.

Now go to Tsukuba and the higher ft-lb car will be faster with racing sorts, switch to Comfort Softs and the higher HP/ lower Ft-lb car is faster because the high FR-lb car will be spinning the CS tires on corner exit.

Non racecar Seasonals are run on lower grip tires so most tune for lower ft-lb and higher hp.

Thats a good debate for tq vs hp that the power limiter can be put to good use on, with it you can vary the hp/tq ballance & its very car, tire, driver, track specific as to if HP or TQ will be better in the situation.

The point Ive proven is that getting an oil change in fact does not put the car at a pp disadvantage and when HP & TQ are the same, the PP will also be the same.

Ive shown this with a Low PP 500

Abarth 500 with an oil change + Racing Exhaust & Sports Computer makes 167hp/154ft-lb @ 400PP

A no oil change 500 can have 167hp/154ft-lb at 400pp using stage 1 engine tuning, semi racing exhaust and sports converter.

Abarth 500 with no oil change + Intake Tuning, Stage 1 ECU & Sports Exhaust makes 166hp/161ft-lb @ 401PP

To a High PP Veyron

Veyron '13 with an oil change and Sport Cat makes 1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP

Veyron '13 no oil change + Semi-Racing Exhaust & Isometric Exhaust manifold makes 1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP


Myth Fully Busted

 

[Motor City Hami]

Thats a question that the power limiter can shed some light on. with it you can vary the HP/Tq balance with the same PP, and it will depend on the car and driver as to if they like more tq or more hp.

And your point is what? Two things are obvious from my guide. First is that I posted about the oil change pp issue waaaayyyyy back in December of last year. And second that I prefer to build without oil change to take advantage of higher horsepower. I prefer driving on sport tires so hp has been faster for me than torque. Others may have different findings?

 

[KniX]

And your point is what? Two things are obvious from my guide. First is that I posted about the oil change pp issue waaaayyyyy back in December of last year.

Thats my point, there is no oil change PP issue

And second that I prefer to build without oil change to take advantage of higher horsepower. I prefer driving on sport tires so hp has been faster for me than torque. Others may have different findings?

Im not talking about the hp vs tq debate, and the paragraph from your guide I quoted on oil changes dosnt mention tq once, its as if you only looked at HP and overlooked tq completely. HP vs TQ thats a different debate altogether. Im talking about the oil change pp myth is busted

 

[Johnnypenso]

They say that changing the oil robs you of usable PP. The way this is proven is they take 2 of the same car, one they leave stock,the other they get an oil change then use the power limiter to bring the hp back to stock hp, and in doing so they show the car with the oil change and power limiter is 1 to 2 pp higher than the car that has not had the oil change.

The problem with this test is that the car with an oil change and power limiting does not have the same power as the stock car, it has more torque. It is the higher torque responsible for the pp difference. This shows issues with using the power limiter & doesn't actually show any benefit from not changing the oil on any car be it for short or long term use.

For example,

The Abarth 500 stock has 133hp/133ft-lb @ 371PP

Oil Change Then with 95.8% Power Limiting

The Abarth 500 now has 133hp/140ft-lb @ 372PP

It would appear as though the car with an oil change is higher PP for no reason if you overlook the torque.

Take the Same 2 cars and build them to the same hp and tq and even though one car has an oil change and the other does not, they will have the same pp. You can even go so far as to have more hp on the car with an oil change but still less pp than the car without an oil change as long as the tq is lower.

For Example

Example 1
Abarth 500 with an oil change + Stage-1 Engine Tuning makes 153hp/151ft-lb @ 390PP

Abarth 500 with no oil change + Racing Exhaust & Isometric Manifold makes 154hp/147ft-lb @ 390PP

Example 2
Abarth 500 with an oil change + Racing Exhaust & Sports Computer makes 167hp/154ft-lb @ 400PP

Abarth 500 with no oil change + Intake Tuning, Stage 1 ECU & Sports Exhaust makes 166hp/161ft-lb @ 401PP

This car with an oil change has more hp and less PP than the car without an oil change

Myth Busted

Who are "they"? And how exactly is the myth of oil change + engine limiter robs you of PP broken when it's still true?. It does rob you of PP because of higher torque, which explains why it robs you of PP, but does nothing to change the "myth" that oil change + engine limiter robs you of PP. The premise holds true, it seems you just explained the "why" of it which is you are trading off more torque for less HP.

As @soupcan points out, it's more important what happens on the track rather than on paper and on some tracks that tradeoff can be detrimental or beneficial.

 

[soupcan]

The point Ive proven is that getting an oil change in fact does not put the car at a pp disadvantage and when HP & TQ are the same, the PP will also be the same.

You can change oil and or various engine upgrades to make the same hp/ft-lb multiple ways and yes the PP will be the same, no myth to bust there, it's always been that way. If you can get to a desired PP level with engine and weight reduction upgrades only and NOT get an oil change, chances are you hp will be higher and the car will be faster.

Ask this question over in the seasonal threads and you will get a pretty clear answer to what works best.

 

[KniX]

You can change oil and or various engine upgrades to make the same hp/ft-lb multiple ways and yes the PP will be the same, no myth to bust there, it's always been that way.

Oil Change– Are you tuning a short term car or a long term car? For a short term car, do not perform an oil change. It robs power at the same PP level. Take any car and note the stock PP and HP levels (example: Scirocco R ‘10 at 438PP/252HP). Next perform an oil change and note the new PP/HP levels (Scirocco @ 445PP/265HP). Finally, use the power limiter to re-establish the car’s original PP level (Scirocco needs 94.5 power limiter to equal 438PP). The new HP rating for the Scirocco is now 250, a 2hp drop from stock (or 0.8% lower horsepower). I have tested this on many cars in GT6 and the average drop is a 1% horsepower loss. If you are using a car for a short period of time, do not perform oil changes. There are more efficient ways to gain power for a PP build. If I were entered into a weekly racing series I might consider purchasing a brand new car for each event and enter without an oil change.

What is CLEAR is that you are saying that getting an oil change robs PP, but this is not the case.

Myth Busted

Its NOT the oil change robbing the PP its the Power Limiting..........

And how exactly is the myth of oil change + engine limiter robs you of PP broken when it's still true?

As Ive already pointed out Im not talking at all about power limiting, There is a difference between getting an oil change and getting an oil change and using the power limiter. I think the power limiter is a cheese tool and I rarely use it, I prefer to hit a hp number with parts vs parts + power limiting. Motor City Hammi is saying the oil Change Robs PP, but its the fact he uses the power limiter to show this that is the problem.

Its NOT the oil change robbing the PP its the Power Limiting..........

so to correct your statement

And how exactly is the myth of oil change robs you of PP broken when it's still true?

Its NOT the oil change robbing the PP its the Power Limiting..........

Veyron '13 with an oil change and Sport Cat makes 1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP

Veyron '13 no oil change + Semi-Racing Exhaust & Isometric Exhaust manifold makes 1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP

The Myth of an Oil Change Robbing PP is Busted

 

[soupcan]

No point in debating with an agenda, have fun.

 

[Otaliema]

Just my 2 cents here the oil change and power issue is not really a debate other than which is better hp or tq, personally I run balanced for most of my cars if I can unless I'm going for a high speed tune than its all about power.
The MAIN reason an oil change is frowned upon, imho, is the fact it only lasts 200km than you start loosing power so to get back to what you had you have to go change the oil again and if you in an online room that's a hassle. A no oil change car can run for 5k km with out problems.
As for PP, its torque biases look at the intake tuning that's one of the biggest torque parts and has one of the highest pp values other than turbos and superchargers

 

[Ronald6]

 

[Motor City Hami]

What is CLEAR is that you are saying that getting an oil change robs PP, but this is not the case.

Myth Busted

Its NOT the oil change robbing the PP its the Power Limiting..........

You apparently cannot read. Right there in my words that YOU quoted it says that "It robs power at the same PP level."

By the way, if you are who I think you are, still waiting for you to post one single tune on GT Planet. Still have not seen one ounce of put your money where your mouth is.

 

[KniX]

Just pointing out the oil change has nothing to do with the power being robbed, it is all in the power limiter not the oil.

You apparently cannot read. Right there in my words that YOU quoted it says that "It robs power at the same PP level.".

I can read just fine, oil change DOES NOT rob power at the same PP level.... The Power Limiter Does.

Veyron '13 with an oil change and Sport Cat makes

1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP

Veyron '13 no oil change + Semi-Racing Exhaust & Isometric Exhaust manifold makes

1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP

Same PP, but where is the stolen PP?

 

[Motor City Hami]

Just pointing out the oil change has nothing to do with the power being robbed, it is all in the power limiter not the oil.



I can read just fine, it DOES NOT rob power at the same PP level.... The Power Limiter Does

Veyron '13 with an oil change and Sport Cat makes 1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP

Veyron '13 no oil change + Semi-Racing Exhaust & Isometric Exhaust manifold makes 1071hp/969ft-lb @ 651PP

So in the end, it has less power when you are finished with an oil change and power limiter. Who gives a frick which did it? You just love splitting words. Post a tune already.

 

[Gravitron]

I think someone is going for the record of Most Duplicate Accounts on GTP. I'll be to a computer soon.

Thanks to the 1 person who reported it instead of falling for this.