Online BOP options?

[azidahaka]

Game is about to be released and i need to start planning a GT3 serie for those not living on the states or that want to have a free sunday (jokes aside great work been done and with tiers! Too bad time and day is wrong for me :/)

What i'm wondering is what online options do we have?

Can we force no tuning? Can we ballast or hp penalize drivers and check like we do on gt6?

We can use AI to fill grids online, but what control do we have over it? Can we choose car, name and speed of the ai?

Do we have a qualy+ race setting? Do we have a race 2 option with top8 reverse grid?

Thanks in advance.

 

[BSD200]

What is BOF?

 

[copes24]

I never pay for my Sundays.

 

[azidahaka]

Balance of performance

 

[Spooky Wooky]

That's BoP, isn't it? I'm confused.

 

[copes24]

Balance of performance

Don't think there's any BoP settings that you are wanting. You can set the ai skill level though. Why would you want to name the AI?

 

[VBR]

If we can't enforce a stock race, then I will be very disappointed indeed.

 

[azidahaka]

Don't think there's any BoP settings that you are wanting. You can set the ai skill level though. Why would you want to name the AI?

This is a big issue for me almost game breaking, i already experienced the "alien drivers issue" in my and other series... You can't stop them without some tools, else you just have to resort never ever driving against them for they would have no fun easily winning and other drivers wouldn't have fun too having no chances...

Well in any case one might resort to offline racing

Hope stock races are in at least, for tuning makes tiers difference way way to big.
As it is, tier series would be the only way.

About the ai naming and choosing, one might take note of their results for the championship standings

 

[FLX1981]

Aliens usually get better times out of cars with default setup too, you know.

But anyway, I m not sure if you can enforce stock setup, but if you know the other people in your league well, there are a couple of possibilities:

- there are restrictors as part of the car setup, so you can tell fast people to set the restrictor to making the car less powerful (you would have to trust them, of course)
- you can always tell the fast people to take the slower cars in the class, which usually works well

Will fire up the game one last time before release this afternoon, will have a look and report back.

 

[blowfishrulez]

I've posted all the MP Setup screens a while ago:

That is how it looks in todays build

View attachment 323009 View attachment 323010 View attachment 323011

 

[priesty_lfc]

Not great.

That doest even allow tuned/stock?

At least GT tried to allow some equality

 

[Spooky Wooky]

OP has changed the thread title, it DID say BOF, just makes my former post make sense.

 

[blowfishrulez]

Not great.

That doest even allow tuned/stock?

At least GT tried to allow some equality

There is no tuning (upgrading) so there is no need for it. The racing classes are balanced of course.

 

[Spooky Wooky]

There is no tuning (upgrading) so there is no need for it.

In YOUR opinion.

YOUR opinion does not count for EVERYONE.

 

[blowfishrulez]

In YOUR opinion.

YOUR opinion does not count for EVERYONE.

Huh? No upgrades is a fact, not a opinion. I actually suggested to be able to enforce using the default/baseline car setup for MP races over at WMD and the suggestion was endorsed by others.

Car Setup /= GT/Forza Style Performance upgrades

 

[Spooky Wooky]

Huh? No upgrades is a fact, not a opinion. I actually suggested to be able to enforce using the default/baseline car setup for MP races over at WMD and the suggestion was endorsed by others.

Car Setup /= GT/Forza Style Performance upgrades

lol, now acting dumb. "so there's no need for it" --- that was YOUR opinion. Other people are of the opinion that there IS a need for it. See what I did there?

 

[copes24]

Looks like people will have to learn how to tune, including myself. At least tuning will work like real life and we will have decent telemetry.

 

[blowfishrulez]

lol, now acting dumb. "so there's no need for it" --- that was YOUR opinion. Other people are of the opinion that there IS a need for it. See what I did there?

I don't know what to tell you. You can limit participants to use your own car class or your own car. Since there are no performance increasing upgrades or performance index numbers there isn't even a metric to limit the performance of the participants to. As i said, to be able to enforce the baseline car setup is a good idea, was suggested to the developers and may come later or not.

If you run a single class race, pick your favorite car and off it goes. In a multi class race (i.e. GT3 vs. LMP1) you race for your class victory. Thats how it also works in the most popular online racing sim, iRacing.

 

[Hillcrest34]

The fast guys are always going to be fast. No matter how many restrictions you want to throw at them. Throwing a lot of restrictions on them usually turns them off because if you're going to get punished for winning why bother winning at all

Also fixed set ups (forced baseline) doesn't always work so great when it comes to road racing as different things in a set up work for different people. You may find that you actually perform worse with a fixed baseline set up as it doesn't suit your driving style.

lol, now acting dumb. "so there's no need for it" --- that was YOUR opinion. Other people are of the opinion that there IS a need for it. See what I did there?

Also getting crappy at someone because they told you that it's impossible to upgrade cars in the game (because you know you just can't and all cars in a class have a BOP) just makes you look like an idiot

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Aliens usually get better times out of cars with default setup too, you know.

But anyway, I m not sure if you can enforce stock setup, but if you know the other people in your league well, there are a couple of possibilities:

- there are restrictors as part of the car setup, so you can tell fast people to set the restrictor to making the car less powerful (you would have to trust them, of course)
- you can always tell the fast people to take the slower cars in the class, which usually works well

Will fire up the game one last time before release this afternoon, will have a look and report back.

I find it mind boggling that no developer ever devised some tool to act like a scrutiny board of some sorts, where all players could see if your car is running under the rules. It would be very useful in racing leagues.

 

[Spooky Wooky]

Also getting crappy at someone because they told you that it's impossible to upgrade cars in the game (because you know you just can't and all cars in a class have a BOP) just makes you look like an idiot

So does making poor assumption.


Anyway - my apologies blowfish, I don't want every thread on here to turn into a silly debate about pointless, point-scoring. I'd rather just get along.

 

[blowfishrulez]

Anyway - my apologies blowfish, I don't want every thread on here to turn into a silly debate about pointless, point-scoring.

Apologies accepted

This approach is the standard operating procedure in the PC Sim Racing space. It is new on consoles, will produce a lot of misunderstandings and it takes a while to let it sink in.

 

[azidahaka]

The fast guys are always going to be fast. No matter how many restrictions you want to throw at them. Throwing a lot of restrictions on them usually turns them off because if you're going to get punished for winning why bother winning at all

Also fixed set ups (forced baseline) doesn't always work so great when it comes to road racing as different things in a set up work for different people. You may find that you actually perform worse with a fixed baseline set up as it doesn't suit your driving style.



Also getting crappy at someone because they told you that it's impossible to upgrade cars in the game (because you know you just can't and all cars in a class have a BOP) just makes you look like an idiot

Not if it is properly done, as @ozwheels can state

Also after racing lots of series and organizing 4 seasons of my own, i can tell you that from driver A and B

driver A is 1 second faster than B on same setup

Allowing tunes the usual result is that

driver A is 3-5 seconds faster than a B driver that is not a good tuner.

Again as wide experiences shows, usually driver A is ALREADY a better tuner than driver B.

So call me a slow driver (i am) or a sore loser (i'm kind of it too lol) but such things are a MUST if you want people of different skills racing together and fighting together.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Again as wide experiences shows, usually driver A is ALREADY a better tuner than driver B.

So call me a slow driver (i am) or a sore loser (i'm kind of it too lol) but such things are a MUST if you want people of different skills racing together and fighting together.

If your goal is to have aliens fighting it out with inexperienced drivers then this isn't the game for you. Not being a tool here, just stating a fact. Sims don't work like that. Sims are all about everyone starting with equal opportunities to win and the best combination driver/tuner comes out on top. BoP is not a feature of any sim I'm aware of, it's just not a sim thing. @Stalliano has the best approach to over come this so far, create a large series, have everyone qualify and sort the players to that they are close together in lap times.

Sims are hit and miss in many ways. A few of the things one is used to in console games won't be here, like "no tuning" options, weight penalties etc. Maybe they'll come later if there is enough community outcry but it doesn't surprise me they are missing.

 

[catamount39]

If your goal is to have aliens fighting it out with inexperienced drivers then this isn't the game for you. Not being a tool here, just stating a fact. Sims don't work like that. Sims are all about everyone starting with equal opportunities to win and the best combination driver/tuner comes out on top. BoP is not a feature of any sim I'm aware of, it's just not a sim thing. @Stalliano has the best approach to over come this so far, create a large series, have everyone qualify and sort the players to that they are close together in lap times.

Sims are hit and miss in many ways. A few of the things one is used to in console games won't be here, like "no tuning" options, weight penalties etc. Maybe they'll come later if there is enough community outcry but it doesn't surprise me they are missing.

And this is why PCARS excites me, I'll get to see where I actually stack up against everyone...something that I didn't really know in GT5/6.

 

[Bealdor]

If your goal is to have aliens fighting it out with inexperienced drivers then this isn't the game for you. Not being a tool here, just stating a fact. Sims don't work like that. Sims are all about everyone starting with equal opportunities to win and the best combination driver/tuner comes out on top. BoP is not a feature of any sim I'm aware of, it's just not a sim thing. @Stalliano has the best approach to over come this so far, create a large series, have everyone qualify and sort the players to that they are close together in lap times.

Sims are hit and miss in many ways. A few of the things one is used to in console games won't be here, like "no tuning" options, weight penalties etc. Maybe they'll come later if there is enough community outcry but it doesn't surprise me they are missing.

No need to talk him down IMO. I think it's a genuine request and it's brought up @WMD multiple times already.

AFAIK the plan was to implement weight penalties to the faster drivers/winners (like it's done IRL) and I hope that this will come post release but I didn't read anything about this since a long time.

 

[blowfishrulez]

This can be forced by a rating system ala iRacing or by a properly organized League were participants are preselected and placed in splits according to their speed. Fast drivers will get frustrated if they cannot drive as fast as they can and annoyed because of rookies not able to turn a clean lap. Rookies get frustated because they have no chance of winning, regardless of how much one tries to slow down the fast guys.

In iRacing, every lap time difference of more than 0.8s is most likely not caused by using the default setup vs. an optimized one. If a racer loses 3 seconds a lap, he is just not fast enough and no setup in the world would make up for that. Forcing the baseline or handicapping the fast guys won't help either.

Yet options are good, allowing a host to force the baseline will do no harm, he probably won't attract the good guys necessarily, but that may even be the goal.

 

[priesty_lfc]

I guess we can hope there is a WRS style league on PCars so we can get a idea of where we fit in.

I'll certainly be in the lower end but I'd like to be involved with players of a similar skill level!

 

[F1Racer68]

If your goal is to have aliens fighting it out with inexperienced drivers then this isn't the game for you. Not being a tool here, just stating a fact. Sims don't work like that. Sims are all about everyone starting with equal opportunities to win and the best combination driver/tuner comes out on top. BoP is not a feature of any sim I'm aware of, it's just not a sim thing. @Stalliano has the best approach to over come this so far, create a large series, have everyone qualify and sort the players to that they are close together in lap times.

Sims are hit and miss in many ways. A few of the things one is used to in console games won't be here, like "no tuning" options, weight penalties etc. Maybe they'll come later if there is enough community outcry but it doesn't surprise me they are missing.

BoP doesn't NEED to be Sim thing because a proper sim, you know....... SIMULATES the real world. In the real world, the the governing bodies have already done the BoP work for you. Therefore, as long as the sim properly simulates the real world cars, then the cars will already be balanced.

In regards to the guys trying to make aliens and rookies be on equal terms, that will never happen anyways. Even if the cars are all 100% identical, drivers are not. The cream will always rise to the top. Highly skilled drivers are able to extract more from a poor handling car than an average driver can pull from a perfect car.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but if you want to be able to compete with an "alien", you need to become one.

People need to remember one thing...... Project CARS is about one thing....... racing. Forza/GT try to be many different things all at the same time. This is what makes those games great and at the same time oh so horrible. While I fully expect Project CARS to be great, games such as Forza/GT do everything well, but don't do anything great due to the number of compromises they need to make in order to be all the different things they are trying to be. Where this is most noticeable is in the lack of balance between cars within a certain class, such as GT3. This class is very balanced IRL, but in GT6..... far from it. This is because the cars in GT6 are altered from their real world versions in order to fit PDs useless PP model. A perfect example is the GT-R GT3. In game it is 50kg heavier than the real world car. As a result it has little hope of competing with other GT3s.

Since the cars in pCARS are so well modelled, this BoP problem should not exist.

Having said all that, my current GT6 league does use a Success Ballast system over the course of a season (as do many real world series). I would have expected this option to be available in pCARS since several of the series it is replicating have or do use Success Ballast.

 

[azidahaka]

If your goal is to have aliens fighting it out with inexperienced drivers then this isn't the game for you. Not being a tool here, just stating a fact. Sims don't work like that. Sims are all about everyone starting with equal opportunities to win and the best combination driver/tuner comes out on top. BoP is not a feature of any sim I'm aware of, it's just not a sim thing. @Stalliano has the best approach to over come this so far, create a large series, have everyone qualify and sort the players to that they are close together in lap times.

Sims are hit and miss in many ways. A few of the things one is used to in console games won't be here, like "no tuning" options, weight penalties etc. Maybe they'll come later if there is enough community outcry but it doesn't surprise me they are missing.

First of all there hundreds of serie that have power or weight penalties, so since the game is "so sim" i expect them to be there.

Beside that i do not want or stated that pro should race with rookies. But certainly midfielder and faster drivers should see each iothers beside at start.

The setup part since we are being picky in real life is not like a driver gets off the car and starts modding his suspensions of that he says " i want 0.02 toe here and 0.2 kgf extra stiffness"

Since we do not get the game with a bunch of engineers included that will make changes based on our driving feel, i do not see why we can't have no tune races or success ballast like it actually exist in RL.

As a last word if you were pointing at my personal driving skills too, well i'm not the fastest or slowest of the bunch, but i take my "racing" seriously.