Online etiquette -- can you summarize, please?

[Kamdoon]

I was just reading one of the threads below regarding online "polite" drivers vs. drivers who suck, and it got me to thinking about etiquette, both virtual and real. I am relatively new to driving games (GT5 is my first game; got it in November and haven't turned off the machine yet!), and a couple weekends ago (before the Great Outage) I conquered my timidity and decided to go online. The first room sucked, but then, fortunately I discovered a room of very cool people who like to race competitively yet aren't so anal that they will cry and boot you if you make one mistake.

If one learns how to drive as I did (drive virtually, that is), basically by going through the "levels" in the A-spec portion, there are really no penalties for behaviours which (I am slowly learning) are not cool. Respecting the line is one major one -- obviously when racing formula cars you can't be in someone's line or you cause mayhem and multi-million dollar crashes. But if you don't watch a lot of racing and don't really know the etiquette, it isn't at all obvious that "respecting the line" is even a rule. Why not cut someone off at a corner if it gets you the lead? The AI doesn't mind (it never seems to wipe out like I do). Anyway, if all you do is race the AI, you may be learning bad habits and not even know it, because the game does not correct you.

My question (yes, there is a question), is, What are the basic, driving etiquette rules both for real racing, and online racing in GT5? If you were to sit a five year old down and explain racing etiquette from the ground up, what are the rules? I get the feeling that sometimes people may be rude online just because they honestly don't know better. For instance -- I see a lot of people complain of getting rear-ended, yet online I see people braking WAY too early -- you are supposed to have "assured, clear distance" as the person behind, yet you also assume that the person ahead of you knows how to drive and brake at a reasonable point. You get the idea (maybe).

Please no sarcasm, biting answers, or hate-orade, just tips for those who may need them. Feel free to post any external links if you know of any good ones.

 

[harmonium]

You'll find some pretty extensive reading on this matter right here. That's the official GTP OLR(OnLine Racing) guides

 

[IceMan PJN]

Why not cut someone off at a corner if it gets you the lead?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Jumping in front of someone is overtaking for position. If you can do it cleanly, that's great. What isn't great is if you spin someone around or run them off the road for position. If you can dart in front of me without wrecking me, you've earned that position. If jumping in front of me involves you banging into me, you're a jerk and a poor sportsman.

For instance -- I see a lot of people complain of getting rear-ended, yet online I see people braking WAY too early -- you are supposed to have "assured, clear distance" as the person behind, yet you also assume that the person ahead of you knows how to drive and brake at a reasonable point.

If someone slams on the brakes way too early, getting rear-ended is their own fault. However, lots of players (at least from my experience elsewhere) don't unintentionally rear-end you, but rather use you as a brake or try to wreck you. If you're coming up directly behind me and I brake too hard a hundred feet too early, and you slam into my bumper, that's my fault. If I'm driving how I should be driving and you decide that instead of braking you'll just keep flying at full speed and slam into me to use your collision with me to slow you down and angle you through the turn, you're a jerk and a poor sportsman.

 

[Kamdoon]

You'll find some pretty extensive reading on this matter right here. That's the official GTP OLR(OnLine Racing) guides

Perfect -- exactly what I was looking for. They should have everyone read that post before they can access online racing in the game!

Thanks harmonium. See you on the track.

 

[harmonium]

Perfect -- exactly what I was looking for. They should have everyone read that post before they can access online racing in the game!

Thanks harmonium. See you on the track.

No problemo!

 

[Derrict]

I hate being in the front at the beginning of the race since I tend to brake early, especially when I'm in a MR or RR car. I also brake early since if I brake late, I'll overload the front tires. With the DS3 I use to brake late but now with the G27, I'll brake early, hit the apex and ease the throttle.

when I'm online, I'm not in it to win it. For me, it's more chill and have fun so when I'm next to someone that I know is faster, I'll ease off the throttle and let them take the position. If I'm next to someone at the same pace or slower, I'll keep my line and make them earn the spot but if I'm in front of someone that drives erratic, I'll give up my position since I know they'll 1) bump me off my line 2) eventually spin out or go off course and I get the position back without drama.

 

[tlsuth41]

Race your line and if someone is obviously quicker allow them to go around you and then try to stay close enough to learn their lines and braking points.

You can not pass someone by driving through them.

Experienced drivers follow closely and when the lead car makes an error they are in position to overtake.

The race is seldom won in the first corner, but has been lost there many, many times over.

Find rooms that limit pp to a lower number and you usually find more respectable drivers there.

 

[iamjajo]

If you want etiquette in online races, then race with friends and stay away from open lobbies.

 

[Sohvakettu]

Common courtesy takes you far. OLR tells you the rest.

 

[boshuter]

For instance -- I see a lot of people complain of getting rear-ended, yet online I see people braking WAY too early -- you are supposed to have "assured, clear distance" as the person behind, yet you also assume that the person ahead of you knows how to drive and brake at a reasonable point. You get the idea (maybe).

Please no sarcasm, biting answers, or hate-orade, just tips for those who may need them. Feel free to post any external links if you know of any good ones.

That is the worst thing about online racing against people who have only done Aspec/license tests, etcs. They feel they have to run as hard into a corner as possible and slam on the brakes at the very last minute. As a result, they rear end the guy actually does know how to drive and brake at a reasonable point. (I'm sure you don't get the idea). These people can't figure out why the guy they think is braking way to early always out qualifies them by a few seconds, instead of trying to see how the obviously faster driver gets those times, they just do their typical bitching about "early braking".

Maybe you should try the "slow in, fast out" approach, but it seems like you have made up your mind allready that you are the one doing it right.

 

[Yev]

That is the worst thing about online racing against people who have only done Aspec/license tests, etcs. They feel they have to run as hard into a corner as possible and slam on the brakes at the very last minute. As a result, they rear end the guy actually does know how to drive and brake at a reasonable point. (I'm sure you don't get the idea). These people can't figure out why the guy they think is braking way to early always out qualifies them by a few seconds, instead of trying to see how the obviously faster driver gets those times, they just do their typical bitching about "early braking".

Maybe you should try the "slow in, fast out" approach, but it seems like you have made up your mind allready that you are the one doing it right.

Well said, +1. 👍
Also, one of main things to know about driving a car (in real life and in GT5): it's always the rear-hitter's fault, never the front guy's. Meaning - in someone hits you from the back it's always his fault, always - no exceptions.
And this here is one of prime examples why are there so many rammers and alike online.
Because beginner players come online - making their own rules up and beeing ignorrant about some basic racing/driving rules. Not reffering to OP, at least he asked for etiquette.

 

[abaxas]

Online etiquette can be summed up as.

Driving in a non combative way unless the room rules define otherwise.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

Well said, +1. 👍
Also, one of main things to know about driving a car (in real life and in GT5): it's always the rear-hitter's fault, never the front guy's. Meaning - in someone hits you from the back it's always his fault, always - no exceptions.And this here is one of prime examples why are there so many rammers and alike online.
Because beginner players come online - making their own rules up and beeing ignorrant about some basic racing/driving rules. Not reffering to OP, at least he asked for etiquette.

That is unless the person in front intentionally brake tests you or blocks you. Online lag can also be a factor in rear ending, as the rear car may not be near you but the lag will push it into you anyway.

As for etiquette, 2 simple rules are don't make body contact and only make one blocking move between each corner. Follow these and you should be fine.

 

[watermelon punch]

RE: The topic of Rear-ending, and online multiplayer racing courtesy.

The car in the lead is the car in the lead. As lead car, that person has the legitimate RIGHT to brake when & how they feel is best for them to take the corner.
This should be a no-brainer.

Here's a clue... Get to know how different cars handle, so when you're heading for a turn with a car in front of you, you have an idea of when that car is likely to brake for the turn.
If I see a car in front of me that I KNOW needs an earlier braking point, I hang back.

It could be the person in front of you who's supposedly "braking too early" is in a car that REQUIRES braking earlier than you would in your car!

Or, like boshuter said... maybe that person you think is "braking too early", knows something you don't about slow-in fast-out on that turn!! Maybe they're really braking at the optimum moment to take the turn as efficiently as possible & come out of it at a good speed.

Unfortunately, boshuter is right, people learn one thing overall from racing against AIs in Aspec... that what it takes to win a race is late-braking.
But late-braking is certainly NOT the end-all be-all in online racing against other real people.

I know of what I speak. I accidentally golded all the late braking license tests on the 1st try. I have a bad habit of late-braking. I'm really good at it too!! But I'm just not that fast at all, overall. So take it from me. You might have something to learn from people who you think "brake too early".

Try some various cars... Some cars you just HAVE to brake early... and it may seem "way too early" to you if you're in a car that allows you to brake much later. But once you try some other cars that can't brake so late, you may get a clue how very different brake points can vary... and how sometimes late braking doesn't necessarily add up to less time at the end of the lap/race.

And besides... what is the lead car supposed to do? They're supposed to poorly late brake and not make the turn just so the person behind them doesn't have to brake earlier than they want to? That's ridiculous.

If you're frustrated that cars are in front of you, and you see other cars in a race as being "in your way" or you don't like the way they drive or whatever...
Maybe you should stick to time trials, and leave racing to people who like being on tracks with other cars.

The lead car shouldn't have to pander to cars behind them & give up their lead & line, to you just because you can brake later.
If you think you can brake later - take a different line, go on the outside, and pass them on the turn if you can.
If you feel you can't do it... then tough cookies. You have to brake earlier when there's a car in front of you. Big whoop. That's racing.

But as someone said, the BIGGEST complaint people have about being rear-ended is MAINLY because some people do it ON PURPOSE to "bunt" & bump-slide, other cars off the track, and take advantage of them going off track, getting a penalty, and it's easy to pass them and take off ahead of them. Some people use this as a tactic. Some people will actually use the cars in front of or around them as tools to brake & steer around a corner. They rear end a car to brake, or lean against a car around a corner to steer around the corner. And while I'm not sure if "cheating" is the right word, it's certainly not fair, and certainly not good sportsmanship. It's not realistic. And it's just rude in so many ways, which should be obvious to everyone... when you think - wait, would I think it was cool if someone did that to me??

Enough said about that?

Of course it's inappropriate to do what's called "brake checking" someone, deliberately to put them off-balance or whatever. I don't think that happens too often though, because it really doesn't help the person doing it much, and it's a BIG risk, unless you're in a much heavier much more stable car than the car behind you. But if you're behind a car... guess what - you have the power to avoid someone deliberately brake-checking you. Just don't get close enough so that it will hurt you if they do it.

Try a little patience. Just follow at a close but safe distance. When the person in front of you makes a mistake & leaves the line, you won't get involved in their kerfluffle, & can carry on the line, and pass them while they're busy getting their act back together.

If you rear-end someone by accident. Well, it happens. Apologize & likely everyone will move on. It's just one race, it's not the end of the world.
But you're not going to make many friends if after the race you say it's their fault for braking too early.
Your best bet is when you rear-end someone by accident... you hang back, allow them to get back on the track if you knocked them off track, before you try to pass them or whatever. If you didn't get a penalty period, but they received a penalty because you knocked them off the track, act as if you got the penalty too. Is it going to kill you to make that small sacrifice to keep the peace after you make a mistake?
If this suggestion sounds distasteful to you... then I suggest you examine how petty you really want to be...

You have to decide what your priorities are...

Is your #1 priority to race fair, have a challenge, compete, & everyone have fun doing it..
or
Is your #1 priority to just try to win every race by whatever dirty tricks or sloppy tactics you're willing to stoop to?

If the latter is your preference, you're likely not going to often find a warm welcome from your fellows in online races. That's just a fact of social interactions.

 

[chuyler1]

The single thing that A-spec does not teach you is how to follow another race car. All of the license tests focus on passing and late braking, but not a single one focuses on following without passing. The game never has you ghost a replay of the proper lines around a track.

When an a-spec driver gets online, they usually complain about this early braking. It could be any number of the reasons posted above...
* The lead car has to brake earlier because it is different
* The lead car is running a faster line which requires slower entry
* The lead car is simply running a safer line to stay in front
* The lead car is using your braking point but you are actually traveling faster via the draft and should have hit the brakes earlier.

That last one is very important. If you are catching a car on a straight leading up to a turn. If you hit the brakes at the exact place on the track that they do, you will hit them every time. You have to brake before them or at least ease off the gas and match speed to use the same brake point as them.

The draft makes inexperienced drivers think they are faster. You can gain several 10ths on any stretch of race track by drafting. You can run horrible lines and still be on the bumper of your opponent. Good online racers wait for the right opportunity to pass. Bad online racers push you out of the way any chance they can get a nose near your bumper.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

The single thing that A-spec does not teach you is how to follow another race car. All of the license tests focus on passing and late braking, but not a single one focuses on following without passing. The game never has you ghost a replay of the proper lines around a track.

When an a-spec driver gets online, they usually complain about this early braking. It could be any number of the reasons posted above...
* The lead car has to brake earlier because it is different
* The lead car is running a faster line which requires slower entry
* The lead car is simply running a safer line to stay in front
* The lead car is using your braking point but you are actually traveling faster via the draft and should have hit the brakes earlier.

That last one is very important. If you are catching a car on a straight leading up to a turn. If you hit the brakes at the exact place on the track that they do, you will hit them every time. You have to brake before them or at least ease off the gas and match speed to use the same brake point as them.

The draft makes inexperienced drivers think they are faster. You can gain several 10ths on any stretch of race track by drafting. You can run horrible lines and still be on the bumper of your opponent. Good online racers wait for the right opportunity to pass. Bad online racers push you out of the way any chance they can get a nose near your bumper.

I'd suggest for new people to online to put GT4 on and do the licence tests on there with the pacecar. Or find an 'expert' on here that will run in front of you and help you in a lounge and teach you what to do.

Regarding breaking points with a draft as a general rule if I am close to the car in front but cannot overtake it I start breaking when they do (not where). This is harder when racing cars without brake lights but with practice in one make races you can work out when they are slowing down.

 

[Kamdoon]

Thanks guys, for the posts. All are quite informative. Consider this boy learned when it comes to early braking -- points well taken.

Chuyler -- awesome synopsis.

 

[The Stalker]

RE: The topic of Rear-ending, and online multiplayer racing courtesy.

snip

QFT

:tup:x10

 

[watermelon punch]

* The lead car is using your braking point but you are actually traveling faster via the draft and should have hit the brakes earlier.

That last one is very important. If you are catching a car on a straight leading up to a turn. If you hit the brakes at the exact place on the track that they do, you will hit them every time. You have to brake before them or at least ease off the gas and match speed to use the same brake point as them.

Gold star for this.
I'll bet a lot of people don't think of this.

And the concept of no following in Aspec... I remember in gt4, there were the Pace Car tests. What happened to that in gt5?

 

[peterjford]

The single thing that A-spec does not teach you is how to follow another race car. All of the license tests focus on passing and late braking, but not a single one focuses on following without passing. The game never has you ghost a replay of the proper lines around a track.

When an a-spec driver gets online, they usually complain about this early braking. It could be any number of the reasons posted above...
* The lead car has to brake earlier because it is different
* The lead car is running a faster line which requires slower entry
* The lead car is simply running a safer line to stay in front
* The lead car is using your braking point but you are actually traveling faster via the draft and should have hit the brakes earlier.

That last one is very important. If you are catching a car on a straight leading up to a turn. If you hit the brakes at the exact place on the track that they do, you will hit them every time. You have to brake before them or at least ease off the gas and match speed to use the same brake point as them.

The draft makes inexperienced drivers think they are faster. You can gain several 10ths on any stretch of race track by drafting. You can run horrible lines and still be on the bumper of your opponent. Good online racers wait for the right opportunity to pass. Bad online racers push you out of the way any chance they can get a nose near your bumper.

+1 👍

Of course it's inappropriate to do what's called "brake checking" someone, deliberately to put them off-balance or whatever. I don't think that happens too often though, because it really doesn't help the person doing it much, and it's a BIG risk, unless you're in a much heavier much more stable car than the car behind you. But if you're behind a car... guess what - you have the power to avoid someone deliberately brake-checking you. Just don't get close enough so that it will hurt you if they do it.

Try a little patience. Just follow at a close but safe distance. When the person in front of you makes a mistake & leaves the line, you won't get involved in their kerfluffle, & can carry on the line, and pass them while they're busy getting their act back together.

I had some brake check me on Fuji. I should have expected it, he was weaving all over the place trying to break my draft. I tried to go around on the outside of the first corner and he ran me wide off the track. I caught up and just stayed on his tail until the straight again. I was able to get a good draft and just as I was about to pull out to pass he brake-checks me. I just stayed clear of him for the rest of the race (I think I ended up last), not worth the frustration.

If I am drafting someone and going faster than they are approaching a corner I will either brake a little earlier as chuyler1 suggest, or take a different line. If I pass someone using the draft before the corner I am always worried that I will get punted.

 

[chuyler1]

I'd suggest for new people to online to put GT4 on and do the licence tests on there with the pacecar. Or find an 'expert' on here that will run in front of you and help you in a lounge and teach you what to do.

Yeah, I don't know why those tests were omitted from GT5. They were tough back when I raced with a controller.

Regarding breaking points with a draft as a general rule if I am close to the car in front but cannot overtake it I start breaking when they do (not where). This is harder when racing cars without brake lights but with practice in one make races you can work out when they are slowing down.

If you are traveling the same speed this works perfectly. However my example above related to drafting is different. You can gain 5-10 mph in the draft. If you are coming up on another racer entering a hard brake zone like turn 1 of Monza, you could be going 5-10 mph faster than them. If you get within 1 car length and hit the brakes the same time as them, you'll still hit them. You simply can't scrub off your additional speed in the short distance allocated between you and the other driver.

 

[chuyler1]

I had some brake check me on Fuji. I should have expected it, he was weaving all over the place trying to break my draft.

Personally, I wouldn't spend another second in a room with someone like that...unless it was to catch up and pit maneuver them. It can be tough to find a room with clean racers and that's why I host my own lobby. There are gamers and there are drivers. Gamers brake check, pit maneuver and cut chicanes. you can't teach them so it is best to just leave and find some drivers.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

Yeah, I don't know why those tests were omitted from GT5. They were tough back when I raced with a controller.


If you are traveling the same speed this works perfectly. However my example above related to drafting is different. You can gain 5-10 mph in the draft. If you are coming up on another racer entering a hard brake zone like turn 1 of Monza, you could be going 5-10 mph faster than them. If you get within 1 car length and hit the brakes the same time as them, you'll still hit them. You simply can't scrub off your additional speed in the short distance allocated between you and the other driver.

Yeah in a very short gap it doesn't work, 100% agreed. When you have 2-3 car length's gap it works (for example at Fuji if you aren't close enough for an overtake you will have a large enough gap).

 

[watermelon punch]

I had some brake check me on Fuji. I should have expected it, he was weaving all over the place trying to break my draft..

Yeah, I wouldn't have thought it was worth the trouble too.
And yeah, that weaving to break a draft was a big red flag... Not wise in the long run. It's one thing to make a move or move your line to try & break someone's drafting you. Like maybe once. But if you're weaving to do it - it just shows that you have no long-term strategy for efficiency. Someone like that is just someone who uses frantic tactics instead of overall efficiency. They probably win often enough just because their psych-outs work sometimes, and even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in awhile. But it's not really a wise comprehensive strategy, IMHO. And it certainly doesn't make for clean racing. And people like that are probably just better left avoided.

IMO, if someone needs to work that hard to upset other cars/drivers, it's a sign they may in fact be incapable of actually racing the track. For them it's about being "one-up" rather than being competitive. They're not competing, they're always looking for an angle.

Seems like there's people like this in every multiplayer online game I've ever played over the past decade +. There's always 2 categories of players. The people who play the game the normal way... And then there's people who play in I guess what could be called an "anti-social" method... They don't just find other people who play the way they do... that would be one thing & nobody's business how they play if they play with others who all agree. But they don't do that, because their way wouldn't work if they did. For their method to ever work, they HAVE to play against people playing the normal way. So it's almost like their goal to just mess up other people's playing, and cut into other people's fun.
I'm surprised there hasn't been some kind of psychological/sociological research paper published on this phenomenon. haha. (Maybe there has?) Because it happens in pretty much every online multiplayer game... The details change depending on what kind of game, but the strategy is the same.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

Yeah, I wouldn't have thought it was worth the trouble too.
And yeah, that weaving to break a draft was a big red flag... Not wise in the long run. It's one thing to make a move or move your line to try & break someone's drafting you. Like maybe once. But if you're weaving to do it - it just shows that you have no long-term strategy for efficiency. Someone like that is just someone who uses frantic tactics instead of overall efficiency. They probably win often enough just because their psych-outs work sometimes, and even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in awhile. But it's not really a wise comprehensive strategy, IMHO. And it certainly doesn't make for clean racing. And people like that are probably just better left avoided.

For anyone who the qoute describes there is no need.
Ontracks like Fuji just pull to the inside line and brake as normal into the turn. You will cut off the overtaking opportunity so that they can either slow down behind you or they will go wide into the run off. It's defensive driving but it's fair. On narrow tracks rather than weave just drive on the 'middle line' and people will find it hard to get past.

 

[chuyler1]

I've tried taking the inside/middle line into turns to block. Bad drivers will go over the grass to get inside on you then push you out using your car to make the turn. There is no stopping a bad driver from ruining a race.

It's true about these two factions of players. Every game has that group of bad players that prey off the fair players. I used to play L4D2 on the PC and people would come into the game, shoot everyone on their team, laugh into the mic, then exit. Seriously? That is someones idea of fun? Others would trash talk then exit as soon as their team was losing. I gave up on the game when I realized I was completing maybe 1 in 10 games.

 

[watermelon punch]

I've tried taking the inside/middle line into turns to block. Bad drivers will go over the grass to get inside on you then push you out using your car to make the turn. There is no stopping a bad driver from ruining a race.

You took the words right out of my... keyboard.
Taking a different line may prevent a brake-check, but if it does, the person who would've brake-checked, will just find another crappy way to go about things.

I was SHOCKED when I found that people would ride (lean on) another car in an online race with other real people. I'm not going to lie & say I never did it with an AI, I have at times... with my bf mocking me for it. haha. But it would've never occurred to me to do it to another actual person playing the game! It's like some people just don't recognize a difference.

It's true about these two factions of players. Every game has that group of bad players that prey off the fair players. I used to play L4D2 on the PC and people would come into the game, shoot everyone on their team, laugh into the mic, then exit. Seriously? That is someones idea of fun? Others would trash talk then exit as soon as their team was losing. I gave up on the game when I realized I was completing maybe 1 in 10 games.

That's similar to the people who quit online races in the middle, as soon as they're in last place. What's ridiculous is that some people do it in shuffle races! haha.

I did actually find a few things posted online that studied this topic of the different factions of players in online games:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27487/The_Psychology_Of_Games_The_Glitchers_Dilemma.php

http://kotaku.com/5541043/lessons-of-the-mario-kart-cheaters

It plays off the old Prisoner's Dilemma. And that study about Tit For Tat evolution... very appropriate.

What it all comes down to, is what people have been saying here on this forum all along... That you're likely to have a better experience in a race organized on this forum, than in a pub lobby game.

People are less likely to cheat (or "race dirty" when applied to gt5) ...

They are less likely IF:

- They know they will be playing against their opponents in the future and face retribution
- They expect to interact with their opponents outside the game
- They don't expect to remain anonymous
- They don't know how many games will be played with the same person

That said there are still clueless people who make enemies wherever they go and they don't ever seem to learn why.
In other words just being a member of this forum does not guarantee that someone is not going to be a clown when you get in a race with them... it just means it's less likely to happen.
And by the same reason, not everyone in public lobby games is a rude joker... you're just more likely to come across some turkeys in pub lobbies with strangers.

The anonymity factor may play into that issue I mention above too.. I guess some people find it easier to see real people and AI drivers as the same, if the real people are strangers? Still seems kind of spooky, but may be the case.

Like the saying, "I would lay down my life for two brothers or eight cousins."

The GT5 equivalent would be... "I will happily take care to brake early when behind my friend I know in real life. I will complain about having to brake early when behind someone I know from GTP forum. I will rear-end bunt when behind some stranger on PSN."

It's a kin selection issue. Human brain just works that way... I guess some people are unable to have their intelligence & social aptitude override it.

 

[chuyler1]

Of course the bad driver will usually bring up real examples in auto racing where their driving style is used. If you look, you can find plenty of real-world examples of rubbing, bumping, and using other cars to turn. You might even find brake checking if you look hard enough.

But etiquette is not about what can be done, it is about what is appropriate. Kids today severely lack social skills and etiquette just isn't part of their vocabulary. Its just too hard to explain to people online that you are racing for fun and would like to avoid contact to keep things fun for everyone. There is very little skill in punting someone out of a turn. Show your mad skillz instead by following behind someone for the entire race and making a pass on the last straight.

 

[shoeface33]

In a really wierd way i follow the old f1 rule of only 1 manouvere on a straight. It may loose me positions but is kinda fun. The other wierd thing i do which doesnt make any sense to me, when i come up behind someone and get ready to overtake, il start to mimic the car in fronts braking places, even if i clearly can outbrake them. I guess i've got so paranoid about rear endning people!
I really hate idiots who brake way to early for a corner so you bump into the back of them (not neccesarily very hard) then start crashing into you intentionally at every possible moment. Grow up!!!

 

[watermelon punch]

Kids today...

heehee I'm envisioning you (just some nondescript man in a golf hat - haha) out on a front porch chasing hooligans away with a broom. LOL
j/k

Anyway, I agree with you. There does seem to be a loosening of what's considered proper behaviour with every generation. At least in the U.S., I can't of course speak for cultures worldwide, because I'm not familiar with all of them. But generally speaking, it does seem in American culture, that a variety of anti-social behaviours are far more openly acceptable now than they used to be. Some actually seem to be looked upon favourably.

And you're right, people who like to use contact as a tactic, will find any excuse or reason, regardless if it's true to life, or not, and regardless of whether it's true or not, that justifies them doing it... Many of them probably don't even know why they do it. And many of them probably don't understand the appeal of a clean race... other than it's easy pickins for them to get up to their nonsense.
I swear that's why labeling a pub lobby room "clean racing" is like a neon sign inviting the clowns. haha. I've seen more unclean racing in rooms labeled "clean" than in rooms not so labeled.

Whenever I hear someone say "punting" though, I think of "punter" & I think of prostitute customers & gambling addicts. LOL (Clearly I watch too much tv police drama.) Or alternatively, those boats with the long oar-like things. (Clearly I also watch too much period dramas as well.)