OUCH! Nissan Designer Calls Out GM

[YSSMAN]

Interesting little diddy:

Nissan’s head design spoke out today on the state of rival GM. He said GM has lost touch with the needs and demands of drivers. “There was a lack of customer-orientation,” Shiro Nakamura said of GM’s woes. Nakamura previously worked at GM. “It was a great experience for me,” he said at a Nissan facility in Tokyo. He expressed a fondness for GM’s glory days, saying he worked with some of the industry’s best people during his years there. Nakamura has been responsible for such designs as the Infiniti Coupe Concept and GT-R.

Well atleast we all know he is speaking a pretty large truth here. GM still builds their cars in a pretty backwards sense, but they seem to be turning it around with models like the new Zeta cars and GMT900 trucks.

...Interesing hearing it comes from Japan...

 

[Wolfe]

That's funny...yet it's simply the truth.

By the way, you missed the "L" key twice in typing the quote reference........

 

[luftrofl]

I think that can be said about most American cars(not including Corvettes, Mustangs, Focus, etc.).

 

[JohnBM01]

I never realized Nissan and GM were rivals, because I always thought it was about Toyota and Nissan- two companies who completely dislike each other and want to beat each other SOOOO bad. Now, whether or not I think Nakamura-san is justified in this, that remains to be seen (actually, I can't tell you to be honest). I think many people would want to see GM do away with cars like the FWD Impala, FWD Monte Carlo, and all... and just go with the bread and butter of American car fans- V8 under the hood and tire-smoking rear-wheel drive. I guess you can't beat a Chevy truck no matter what Ford and DaimlerChrysler dare say. Saturn's actually making decently-designed cars for the first time in... a decade?

You all may seem to better know about this issue and have more experience than I do. So here are my questions to you all:

(1) Do you think Nakamura is justified in his words against GM?
(2) What do customers want out of GM according to Nakamura, and what is the current state of GM in relation to its customers?
(3) What changes could be made to GM to better themselves with customers in light of Nakamura's comments?

The floor is yours.

 

[Joey D]

I don't think Nissan had any right to call GM out, look at Nissans cars, besides the Infiniti line and the 350Z I think they are average. Now someone like BMW, Mercedes, etc. calling GM out would be understandable.

 

[Delirious]

I don't think Nissan had any right to call GM out, look at Nissans cars, besides the Infiniti line and the 350Z I think they are average. Now someone like BMW, Mercedes, etc. calling GM out would be understandable.

Who dug you out of the grave?

I like supporting our american car workers...but when one foreign car is a lot better than an american car...something is wrong.

 

[FAOLIU05]

Perhaps Nakamura should stop being so moronically arrogant and focus more on the twisting knife in his back that is the Lexus line up, if you get what I'm saying... That's right... 8 gears Infiniti. 8 gears.

Not only that, but GM has quite a few cars comparable to Infiniti that completely pwn.

 

[Poverty]

I think the ford focus is quite a good car actually. Nissan hasnt got anything thats better than the focus and the focus is a fun to drive car.

 

[Max_DC]

I'm not that familiar with the complete GM portfolio of cars, but Nissan makes some beautiful and nice cars in Asia and Europe. Well anyway, there has to be a reason why GM is in trouble, so Nakamura is probably right.

 

[a6m5]

Nakamura is talking about the designs(styling) of the GM cars, right? In that department, I think Nissan is kicking GM's a**. Nissan's build quality has gone downhill in last decade or two, but their designs really picked up last few years. Sentra still looks like it got hit by a bus, but rest of their lineup are very handsome, and that goes to their Infiniti line as well. I couldn't say the same about most of GM cars/trucks.

 

[Ev0]

Nakamura would have been right about a year ago. But ever since Bob Lutz took over, GM has really been starting to build good, customer oriented cars again. If anything, Nissan may be heading where GM was. Nissan certainly doesn't make bad cars, but they just fail to stick out in the marketplace.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, with the possiblity of Wagoner stepping down by the time summer is here, and the great progress pushed forward by Mr. Lutz things at GM could radically change.

Nakamura san is probably pretty justified in what he says. Being that he once worked for GM, he probably knows what he is talking about, but generally anyone who has paid attention to GM could say almost the same thing. But, over at Nissan, they are still in a somewhat similar situation as well. Really, IMO, only the 350Z and Altima have been great successes, as the truck lineup has been stumbling (despite critical success), and the Sentra has been in a downturn since the redesign.

GM does have to face the truth, however. Americans these days want well-built and affordable mid-size RWD sedans. They may have V6s, they may have V8s, but they need to be American in design and in execution. Hence GM's shift with their long-running mainstream cars, the W-Body, to RWD Zeta in 2008. If they can build and sell these cars starting in the mid-low $20K range with a 220-260HP V6 and an automatic, they have hit their mark. The 300C and Charger are both selling exeptionally well following this model, using American style and performance, and I'm sure GM can pull it off with the new Zeta cars.

At the same time though, they have to build the bread and butter car everyone will want, which would probably have to sell just below $30K equipped with a 300HP V8 and an option between a 6-speed manual and 6-speed automatic. In this form, GM would be able to not only compete directly with the 300C and Charger, but also beat down the door of Infiniti and Lexus, and well as BMW and Mercedes by knocking-off their RWD mid-size performance sedans (read 3-series) with V8 power and a low price.

Styling however, may not necessiarily be the key factor in all of this. While I do presume that they will persue something similar to the classic stylings of the Impala, I dont think those designs will necessiarily translate well into the modern era. The lines just arent as classic as those of the Mustang, Camaro, etc. I would expect GM to make the look of the new Commodore of which the Impala will share it's design with a bit more edgy, but they would probably go off without a drastic redesign.

Things are changing at GM for the better, but we are still a year or so away from driving what will probably become the next great American cars after the 2005 Mustang.

 

[exigeracer]

Perhaps Nakamura should stop being so moronically arrogant and focus more on the twisting knife in his back that is the Lexus line up, if you get what I'm saying... That's right... 8 gears Infiniti. 8 gears.

Look at it completely unbiased, and there is no way you can say that GM styling is better than Nissan. There is perhaps one or two exceptions in all.

Although it is fairly opinion-based, GM's cars lack the little bit of flair and originality that Nissan's line has. Nissan is using new shapes and progressing design ideas, whereas GM simply is using the standard box design and shaping a new skin onto it. Example: GM SUV's. I have failed to see any design progression or any innovative features. Compare this to, say, Infiniti's QX - there is something special, unseen anywhere else.

 

[neanderthal]

the only well styled GM vehicles IMO are the solstice (and brethren) the new 2007 tahoe and the vette.
the G6 is palatable. as is the equinox.

thats it. everything else is mundane or straight up ugly.

in a comparison of styling, i give the edge to nissan. but not by much.

the Z, the infinitis, the murano, they give nissan the edge. the G35 coupe is sex on wheels, but the QX56 is ugly. that droopy eyed look is not quite to the to the fugliest degree that the aztek was.

the trucks are a wash. the chevys are not as attractive since they were separated from the GMCs in their second year.
the minivans are nissan by a landslide. have you seen teh GM vans?
cars;
sentra= cobalt. both horribly plain.
altima= G6 but > impala, monte carlo, malibu et al.
maxima> whatever the generals offerings are, although the maxima is frumpy.
350Z= vette (styling y'all, not performance) i would favor the C5 vette over the Z, this one isnt quite as pretty IMO.

G35 coupe= sex on wheels= nothing that the general has compares. GTO loses big time style wise
solstice/ sky= foreplay on wheels. nissan doesnt sell a comparable model.
G35 sedan> CTS, but not by much. but >>>> over lame buicks.
M45= CTS
Q45< DTS
titan> silverado, but = sierra
frontier.>= colorado, just slightly better. a longer bed crew cab frontier would win easily.
quest >>>>>>>the saturn, pontiac, chevy trifecta of horrid
murano>>>>>> rendevous
armada= 2006 tahoe, yukon but >escalade
armada <2007 tahoe, but > escalade and yukon. hate the long droopy lights.
QX56<<<<< any big SUV from GM, no matter how ugly. hate the droopy lights.
equinox= no nissan rival here.
xterra> trailblazer and minions
pathfinder= gorgeous>>>> trailblazer and minions.

did i miss anything?

conclusion, nissan, but not by too much.

 

[Joey D]

You think an Xterra is better then a Trailblazer? Nissan couldn't design a truck or SUV if there life depended on it. Now if you said Toyota, I would have to agree I think Toyota can actually design a truck and an SUV.

 

[a6m5]

You think an Xterra is better then a Trailblazer? Nissan couldn't design a truck or SUV if there life depended on it. Now if you said Toyota, I would have to agree I think Toyota can actually design a truck and an SUV.

By design, are you talking about the exterior design? Nissan SUVs like Xterras and Pathfinders are much better looking IMO. In full-size SUV/Trucks, I like the looks of Chevys better.

I agree with 99% of neanderthal's post. 👍

 

[Kent]

I don't really think Nissan has room to knock on GM.
Both companies have good sides and bad sides.

However, in my opinion these two companies can not be compared.
For example, in the comparison above we saw the name of the CTS but there was no mention of the Type-V which would easily throw off the G35 sedan and M45 comparison.

At the same time we also see a lack of comprable models.
I mean, a 350Z compared to a Vette?
And how could we even try to match up a comparison for Nissan to run against the Caddy Vette (XLR ?)

The bottom line:
Neandertal's entire comparison was opinion and to some extent highly biased (since anytime you compare something on how it looks you are actually acting purely on your own idea of beauty).

That's not to say he doesn't deserve an opinion.
I'm just saying that we have to take it for that and nothing more.

Now going along with that trend...
GM > Nissan

The only cars from Nissan and Infiniti that I think look good are the Altima, Frontier, 350Z, and G35 Coupe... Everything else is "ugly."

GM- there is a lot I don't like and a lot I really do like... So much to list and talk about I'm not gonna try.
Needless to say though, I preffer GM to Nissan.

 

[FAOLIU05]

GM vs. Infinity

Infiniti G35 Coupe

GM Sport Coupes:

 

[Joey D]

By design, are you talking about the exterior design? Nissan SUVs like Xterras and Pathfinders are much better looking IMO. In full-size SUV/Trucks, I like the looks of Chevys better.

I agree with 99% of neanderthal's post. 👍

Yup exterior design, I think Nissan's truck and suv department lacks quite a bit.

 

[a6m5]

I'd never buy one(I'd rather buy Toyotas, also), but I do love the looks of the Nissan SUVs. Excluding Armada and QX56, of course. As I've said earlier, I think Chevy fullsize SUV/Trucks are much more appealing.

Xterra

Pathfinder

Murano

FX45

Frontier

 

[Joey D]

The FX45 is nice looking and I forgot about it. But the others just have to much plastic on them (except the Murano which I don't care for).

 

[MustangSVT]

There are only 2 cars that Nissan makes that looks good (other than Skyline and Silvia which are out of production anyway and can't buy in North America).

Infiniti G35 Coupe (and let's say the sedan too..)
Nissan 350Z

However, the Vette C6, the CTS and I like the Grand Prix too look way better.

I'm not a fan of GM cars or Nissans (tho I'll take a C6 Z06 over like anything but a Ford GT), but Nissans aren't that beautiful, so who are they to talk. They got 2 good looking designs and that's it.

 

[Jay]

I'm not real fond of the American Nissan line up except for G35 and 350Z, for instance the Australian Maxima looks much nicer, I like the Japanese Nissan line up alot though.

I prefer the Australian Nissan line up much better than the Australian GM lineup thats for sure.

 

[a6m5]

I think maybe Kent was right. Designs are mostly opinion based and it's hard to argue about it. Too many guys in here with poor taste to have a valid discussion. I swear, Blazin's almost legally blind. j/k

 

[exigeracer]

GM vs. Infinity

Infiniti G35 Coupe

GM Sport Coupes:

Oh dear... VX was designed by Lotus, there is no way you can call it a GM design.

G35 is a facelifted 350Z, better to compare with that.

C6 is a pretty dandy design, but it is far from any breakthrough in design... There is no emotion to it, you can tell it's just an update on the C5, which is just an update on the C4. The 350 has an obvious distinction to it, completely unseen before. It really is a new benchmark in design, I can't think of anything similar.

This is an opinion-based choice, but there is a certain amount of design knowledge you have to apply before making those judgements. A lot of GM's cars simply don't have any significant design content.

 

[Jay]

G35 is a facelifted 350Z, better to compare with that.

Well the 350Z, G35 and others where based off the Nissan FM platform which was designed from scratch for multiple models including the replacements of R34 and Z32 models, I wouldn't call the G35/V35 a facelifted 350Z.

 

[Sniffs]

if the General would settle on each branch's design signature again, mabey they wouldn't look plain *coughBuickcough* the one thing everybody yarped about when it came up was Chevy's "chrome 2 by 4" center bar design.

but, the new Nissans? they look like ford's "edge" styling of the late ninties.

i also prefer the smoothness of Australian design school. the Australian built Capri looked good to me.

but, in GM design? i prefer the 99 Silverado/sierra face, the mid ninties caddy square bear look.

mabey somebody should tell GM if they want retro, throw up a Belair concept clone of the mid fifties gen...or the look of the first year Caprice (tail end of the muscle era)

 

[YSSMAN]

If we can compared apples to oranges, we can compare GM North America to Nissan North America...

- Aveo vs Versa: Dead heat. Nissan wins in the end for the Renault influence, but the Italdesign shape given to the Aveo is still good looking despite the fact it has been modified.
vs

- Chevrolet Cobalt vs Nissan Sentra: Cobalt pulls this one out, easily, as the Sentra has been completely ruined since it's previous incarnation.
vs

- Chevrolet Malibu vs Nissan Altima: I'm giving this one to the Altima in the end, but it was very close. Unfortunately for the Malibu, it really only looks good in SS form (pictured), but not in LS and LT forms.

vs

- Chevrolet Impala vs Nissan Maxima: My props go to Chevrolet, as Nissan once agin ruined an allready great car with some crazy quirky design.

vs

- Saturn Sky RedLine vs Nissan 350Z: The 350Z is a tough car to match in the GM lineup, so the Sky is the best that I can do here. Pretty much, it is a preference thing, and in the end my vote goes to the new Sky.

vs

- GMC Canyon vs Nissan Frontier: The Nissan wins in a landslide, no chance for any of the GM small trucks.

vs

- GMC Sierra vs Nissan Titan: Its a preference thing once again, and in the end the more restricted and streamlined Sierra (esp. in Denali form) looks much better than the Titan by days end.

vs

- Chevrolet Trailblazer vs Nissan Pathfinder: I'm giving this one to Nissan, as the Chevrolet design looks far too dated in this situation. However, not to discredit the Trailblazer SS (pictured) which is by far one of the best looking SUVs sold in the US.

vs

- Chevrolet Tahoe vs Nissan Armada: Dee dee dee, the Tahoe wins. No questions there.

vs

So in the end, GM wins 5-3 in comparison to just the Nissan lineup. In another post, give me a bit, I'll tackle Infiniti...

 

[a6m5]

- Chevrolet Impala vs Nissan Maxima: My props go to Chevrolet, as Nissan once agin ruined an allready great car with some crazy quirky design.

I agreed with everything except this one. Impala, to me, is a very boring and ugly car. Maxima is a very, very sexy car. It's been out for probably 3 years or so, it still turns my head. I can't believe we seem to have similar taste on everything else and be completely off on this one.

Edit: My biased photo comparison

Beautiful Maxima

Very ugly redheaded stepchild

 

[Jay]

Australian Nissan Maxima