OUCH! Nissan Designer Calls Out GM

[a6m5]

Australian Nissan Maxima

Looks like it should be called, "Renault G35/Skyline".

 

[YSSMAN]

Contine with Infiniti:

- Pontiac GTO vs Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe: Again, it is a tough comparison that comes down to preference. I'm pulling for the GTO in this situation, but I'm going to call it a draw.

vs

- Cadillac CTS vs Infiniti G35 Sedan: I'm giving this one to Cadillac, but both designs are getting a bit old. The CTS-V is still a good example of what a few changes can do to make a car look great.

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- Cadillac STS vs Infiniti M45: This once again, is a preference thing, and to me, its a draw.

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- Cadillac DTS vs Infiniti Q45: I'm giving this one to the Q45 in the end. It just looks like it was designed a bit better, as the DTS just looks like a stretched STS with wrong-wheel-drive.

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- Cadillac SRX vs Infiniti FX45: Its a close race between the two, and depending on your tastes, it could go either way. In the end, I'm compelled to give it to the FX45 because of it's sportscar looks.

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- Cadillac Escalade vs Infiniti QX56: Dee dee dee once again, the Cadillac wins, no questions there.

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So in the end it is a total draw, finishing 2-2-2 overall. Infiniti obviously has more cash to spend on good design than their cousins over at Nissan, but it is still open to one's own impressions when comparing these cars.

 

[Elegy]

C6 is a pretty dandy design, but it is far from any breakthrough in design... There is no emotion to it, you can tell it's just an update on the C5, which is just an update on the C4.

This is really wrong. The C6 Corvette doesn't look similar to the previous incarnations because of apathy towards innovation on GM's part. It's because GM knows its audience with the Corvette; they know that a radically changed Corvette design would be poorly accepted. It's tradition, not lack of emotion.

 

[exigeracer]

This is really wrong. The C6 Corvette doesn't look similar to the previous incarnations because of apathy towards innovation on GM's part. It's because GM knows its audience with the Corvette; they know that a radically changed Corvette design would be poorly accepted. It's tradition, not lack of emotion.

This is a thread about design, not marketing. Plop a car infront of me and I'll tell you what it looks like and what it doesn't look like, not whether it is accepted by its target audience. The design brief is incredibly important, like you mentioned, but I'm judging purely on snapshot design.

BTW, the C6 would look a ton better if the headlight housing was mirrored, not matched with the body paint (especially in that bright yellow that it is always shown in).

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, if you want to speak in a general way, Corvette design has not changed a whole lot since the introduction of the 1968 C3 Stingray.

Obviously I love the look of the Corvette, and although I did gripe about the lack of "pop-up" headlights, I can say I'm pretty satisfied by the current look overall. Its still pretty agressive, and I like the unreasonably wide look it has to it.

But that is the great thing about the Corvette. The design does not have to change drastically to keep bringing in new customers. Great performance and a good value is enough as it is, and although looks do matter, it may not necessiarily matter in the same way it would for a new model, or one will allready falling sales (Jaguar XK???).

 

[GT4_Rule]

This is a thread about design, not marketing. Plop a car infront of me and I'll tell you what it looks like and what it doesn't look like, not whether it is accepted by its target audience. The design brief is incredibly important, like you mentioned, but I'm judging purely on snapshot design.

BTW, the C6 would look a ton better if the headlight housing was mirrored, not matched with the body paint (especially in that bright yellow that it is always shown in).

Well, target market will undoubtly influence the future styling - as seen in the Corvette. The buyers want something "Corvette", not some radially different car.

 

[Omnis]

You're mad saying the M45 and STS are a draw. M wins by a landslide.

 

[GT4_Rule]

You're mad saying the M45 and STS are a draw. M wins by a landslide.

Nope, STS is better. The rear design doesnt make me embarrased, it makes me proud if I own one. The white lights looks like some afterthought, really.

 

[Jay]

I just noticed the Australian Maxima is very similar to the Infinti M45, obviously some front and rear differences but check the doors and roof line.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Good point.

"You guys get an Infiniti Maxima!!'

 

[BMWteamPTG]

lol well i am going to put this the easiest way possible...

GM produces quantity, Nissan produces quality.

as an american who has driven both makers, i can vouch for this and say that its true.

('91 Nissan Stanza, '97Chevrolet Cavelier)

 

[FAOLIU05]

But clearly quantity and quality don't influence style. Infiniti doesn't stand a chance against the entire company of General Motors.

 

[Omnis]

Nope, STS is better. The rear design doesnt make me embarrased, it makes me proud if I own one. The white lights looks like some afterthought, really.

Sorry, but the M45 is the better car.

Proof: http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9024/infiniti-m45-sport-page3.html

vs.

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/8279/cadillac-sts-v-8-page5.html

It's better in every test and costs 7 thousand dollars less. Plus, you can at least distinguish an M45 when you see one. The STS's composition is so blatantly borrowed from the other cars in the lineup. Personally, I like the designs of both; the thing is that when you see each car, you'd look at the M45 and say, "cool, an M45," as opposed to looking at the STS and thinking, "cool, a cadillac." Besides the Corvette, GM's cars have no personality or romance at all. From what I have experienced, they are just part of some big amalgam, as opposed to each being their own work of art.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Oh yeah?

M45 looks like a rip-off of G35 in the rear, but much uglier.

And I always thought GM was fighting the competition with value, and that applied to Cadillac also? Theres no way M45 is cheaper than STS, similarly equipped. I also doubt even if they are in the same class. I always thought the STS was against Q45. I might be wrong, but still, those Japanes premium (include the parent brand too) brands are always overpriced, like the Germans.

 

[Omnis]

DTS is Q45 competition.

Those cars I linked to were very similarly equipped. The M45 is still way cheaper, and has all the tech-goodies and everything.

On paper, the M45 is better. That's what I'm saying. I haven't been inside the STS, so I can't comment on that. I love the M45 from the inside out, though. I'm also not saying that it's aesthetically perfect, but at least it's a bit more unique.

 

[GT4_Rule]

It all comes down to taste.

M45 is a bit too unique, really. That rear end just ruined the good impression that I had looking at the front.

DTS is a Q45 competitor? FWD vs. RWD??

 

[Omnis]

You mean to tell me that drivetrain variation rules out any competition whatsoever? Laugh.

 

[Wolfe]

Hmm. I could've sworn Mr. Nakamura was talking about GM's cars in general, not their exterior designs...the former makes much more sense. Oh well.

 

[Omnis]

Exactly, Wolfe. I'm talking about the entire car, but GT4_Rule seems to only be concerned with damn looks.

 

[Wolfe]

Exactly, Wolfe. I'm talking about the entire car, but GT4_Rule seems to only be concerned with damn looks.

I was actually referring to what the entire thread has evolved into, but I guess that works too........

 

[Max_DC]

I probably shouldn't, but I throw them in here anyway

Well back to today's Nissans.... I Agree with a6m5 : It's hard to discuss personal taste, it's pointless imo...

 

[Jay]

I probably shouldn't, but I throw them in here anyway

Awwww, now that you are the first the reference the GTR (which I knew would happen sooner or later), wheres the Z06 pics

That Fairlady 240ZG pic is awesome by the way 👍

 

[Kent]

I think this could be the all time low.
Car and Driver is the authority on which car is good and which car is not.

Well that's cool with me.
It's not like a magazine publication could be biased.

 

[neanderthal]

im not comparing specific cars within a model line, like the CTS-v or the R34 GTR 500 (whatever) im comparing thier styling based on the regular production model of the car.

if a car looks nice, it looks nice period. without you having to put on the "go faster" stripes and bodykit.

that was from a style point of view.

from a making nice cars in general point of view, outside of the vette and 07 tahoe, theres nothing the general makes that i would want over a comparable nissan. a v series would be tempting but since i think that cadillac styling is garish, the performance in and of itself wouldnt be enough.

therein lies the bane of GMs problems. cars are not purchased simply by the brand, price, styling, interior, competitive models, size, towing capacity etc alone. its a combination of what works best for me with heavy influences of personal preferance; performance, utility, fuel economy etc.
GM can get one, two or several categories, some times most, but its the overall thats important. cars have to appeal. a few models aside, GMs dont.

 

[exigeracer]

Besides the Corvette, GM's cars have no personality or romance at all. From what I have experienced, they are just part of some big amalgam, as opposed to each being their own work of art.

and

GM can get one, two or several categories, some times most, but its the overall thats important. cars have to appeal. a few models aside, GMs dont.

Similar, but well-said.

 

[YSSMAN]

Here is the problem with Nissan's design:

Being that they have become so interested in leading out the Japanese companies sylistically, they often produce products that are either ahead of their time, or just too crazy for the public to actually want to buy.

Take for example the Nissan Quest. Mechanically speaking, the van is magnificent, and when driving, it is pure pleasure. But, Nissan gave it a look not even it's mother could love. And it was not just on the outside, but the inside as well. Progressive styling is a plus in most situations, but the adventure that Nissan took us on with the Quest was too much.

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Speaking about the overall appeal of a model, it greatly depends on who you are or what you are looking for. The hardcore automotive enthusiest may not necessiarily go looking for the Pontiac Grand Prix to become their next family sedan, but for the average driver who wants something a bit more "spicy" in both looks and in the drive, the Pontiac may be a good choise.

Look at Buick: To anyone with two cents in their heads and any notion of taking a corner above 60MPH, this may not be the brand for you. But for the millions of older folks who want a cushy ride with a bit of extra power and overall value built in, it is what makes models like the LaCrosse and Lucerne so successful. The design may not be beautiful, but they arent as extroverted as what they are over at Toyota and Lexus, which are big turnoffs for people over sixty.

Style and appeal are things dictated by one's personal taste. I personally think that Nissans products are cheap, fairly ugly, and generally arent as good of a value as what is available from GM, Ford, or DCX. However, neither of the Big Three are my first stop when looking for a new car, as I would generally be heading for VW first... But that is just my personal preference.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Exactly, Wolfe. I'm talking about the entire car, but GT4_Rule seems to only be concerned with damn looks.

Whos the one that kept going even after I said it all comes down to taste....?

Arguments doesnt happen just because one side is yapping. It happens because the starter and the receiver are both yapping at each other. I wont say who started this or who was responsible.

 

[a6m5]

Here is the problem with Nissan's design:

Being that they have become so interested in leading out the Japanese companies sylistically, they often produce products that are either ahead of their time, or just too crazy for the public to actually want to buy.

Take for example the Nissan Quest. Mechanically speaking, the van is magnificent, and when driving, it is pure pleasure. But, Nissan gave it a look not even it's mother could love. And it was not just on the outside, but the inside as well. Progressive styling is a plus in most situations, but the adventure that Nissan took us on with the Quest was too much.

I think the Quest is either the best, or second best looking minivan in the U.S., before or after Honda Odyssey. I don't believe I've seen the interior in person, only in pictures. Yes, it looks very futuristic, but looked very cool to me.

YSSMAN: You must've been referring to this Nissan Quest.

 

[GT4_Rule]

But that dashboard looks too futuristic though....almost strange.

 

[a6m5]

But that dashboard looks too futuristic though....almost strange.

That center console is actually a coffee table.