overlooked muscle cars

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There was also the change in power ratings from gross to net bhp. That exaggerates the drop off in power some. A Trans Am with the 200 bhp 455 could still get into the 15s thanks to the 330 lbs/ft torque @ 2000 rpm. 👍
The H body family gets overlooked IMO. I think it's the smallest car to have received the Chevy sb, so you can replace the 262 & 305 with stronger motors. The cars were rear drive and they looked nice too IMO. :)

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Here are some comments I found on the GTO:

-----"After a year of disappointing sales, Pontiac is scaling back production of the 2005 Pontiac GTO, which was touted as a halo car for the brand.

Pontiac will cut GTO production by about 30 percent next year, from its 2004 target of 1,300 to 1,500 units a month to 1,000 a month in 2005.

Larry Pryg, marketing manager for Pontiac's premium mid-sized cars, admitted Pontiac did not conduct enough initial market research on the GTO, misallocated inventory and missed its initial estimate.

"We will adjust production levels, and 12,000 units a year seems right for this vehicle," Pryg said at a press event here.

Through October, Pontiac sold 9,487 GTOs in the United States. Pontiac is offering a $3,500 national cash rebate on 2004 models.

Earlier, dealers had complained that the GTO suffered from bland styling and a high sticker price, and lacked incentives.

Adjusting allocation

Pontiac said imprudent allocation to dealerships was a bigger factor in the slow start. Pontiac overloaded its inventory in the U.S. north-central region, allocating 40 percent of the rear-wheel-drive GTO's initial production to those states in the middle of winter, when the handling problems of rear-drive vehicles in snow are most apparent.

"We wanted to reward those dealers," Pryg said, "but we couldn't neglect the other parts of the country, such as the West Coast, where we didn't have enough in our 30-day supply."

Pryg said 30 percent of 2005 GTO inventory will be allocated to the north-central region. The rest will be dispersed across the country.

This month some dealers still were receiving 2004 GTOs. GM has promised its dealers that production on the 2005 GTO would finish three months earlier than last year.

As for issues of styling and price, Pontiac hopes a stable price and a larger engine will attract more buyers.

The 2005 GTO gets a new engine, the LS2 6.0-liter V-8 with 400 hp. The previous engine pumped out 350 hp. To the relief of traditionalists, an optional hood scoop has been added, along with dual exhaust.

Duane Earl, sales manager at Sawyers Pontiac in East Lansing, Mich., says early criticisms of the GTOs were unfounded.

"There was a lot of bad press about it not looking like the old GTOs of the 1960s and '70s, but that's not what it was supposed to be about," says Earl, who sold 22 GTOs last year and has one order for the new model. "I think now that it is out there and people know what it's about, it will be welcomed."

Next-generation GTO

GM has hinted that the next-generation GTO, scheduled to appear on the Zeta rear-drive architecture for the 2007 or 2008 model year, will be a large departure from the current model.

Pontiac hopes to position the GTO as its version of the Chevrolet Corvette - an aspirational vehicle that is the "soul of the brand," says Pontiac spokesman Jim Hopson.

Pryg said: "There is a real desire to make it striking. "We will start from scratch with something for U.S. tastes. We are going to stretch, but there will only be a few retro cues."

Pryg said that there may be an opportunity for more volume in the next model, "but that's not the first word out of our mouths right now."------

Guess we'll have to see how the 2005 sales figures turn out. :D
 
Not all versions of the old GTO had a million horsepower, but they did have that important element of character. The 2005 GTO with it's scoops and bigger engine is good, although I don't know what the price will be. That said, the complete redesign for later in this decade can't come a day too soon because the present car's underlying styling is very bland, and it is too expensive.

72' 455 HO GTO

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I'm not sure if it's been posted yet, and I'm not even sure it could be considered a muscle car, but I remember the 80's? model Charger called GLH I think. Those things were supercharged and had so much power, and to top that they were very light. They were about the same size as the 80's 5.0L Mustangs.

*If I remember correctly, GLH stood for Goes Like Hell.
 
69Dodge_Charger
I'm not sure if it's been posted yet, and I'm not even sure it could be considered a muscle car, but I remember the 80's? model Charger called GLH I think. Those things were supercharged and had so much power, and to top that they were very light. They were about the same size as the 80's 5.0L Mustangs.

*If I remember correctly, GLH stood for Goes Like Hell.

Yes,

Same with the 80's Chrysler Omni GLH, they were total sleepers, in fact, some people say that, that exact same car could have started off the tuner craze...I don't about that but if memory serves me right, I believe GLHS stands for: Goes like hell Some-more!
 
I think Emad or stinkychicken or someone said that like a month ago Jeff.
 
PublicSecrecy
I think Emad or stinkychicken or someone said that like a month ago Jeff.

Well I guess i missed that....I remember hearing that 3 years ago on speed channel............
 
I think I would like a 6.0L GTO if I could get the front end and bumper from a monaro. No one would know what it is. Then it would be a real sleeper.
 
How about a Sunbeam Tigers, Triumph TR8s they are overlooked muscle cars.
 
I would say the very early Firebirds also don't get the attention they deserve. The 67s/68s get overlooked with all the attention given to the Camaro and Chevelle. Also emphasis is placed on the Trans Am, but the plainer Ram Air 400s were pretty good even though they didn't have the highest horsepower, or a Chevy bb. 👍

67' Firebird 326

67' Firebird 400
 
VIPERGTSR01
The 1968 Plymouth Barracuda gets overlooked IMO

cuda6801.JPG

Not the A bomb versions! In '68 the Dart and Barracuda were outfitted for Super Stock drag racing with 426 Hemi's. They completely dominated the series for a long long time. So they are legendary in drag racing circles. But they're very rare in this form.

THe AMC AMX and Javelin get my nod. The AMX especially as it was a small light weight two seater that could be had with a 390 Ford engine. Even in there extremely restricted stock form these cars really moved!
 
MattC
The revised LS2 GTO could be just what that model needs to get out of the "overlooked" category. Good luck to it I say. 👍


American Motors Rebel "Machine"

455 HO Grand Prix

Mid to late 70s Dodge Aspen R/T & Plymouth Volare Road Runner twins. 👍

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As big a mopar fan I am I have to point out the fact that just about every Mopar fan and even Ma Mopar herself has tried very very hard to forget about the Aspen. Carbs that had parts that dissolved when exposed to gasoline? Electrical nightmares. Horrible rear differentials, bad frost plugs and head gaskets. I mean these cars were made during a time when Chyrsler almost went under. They were making them as cheap as possible and it really really shows. This one is best left forgotten
 
Velocity
The AMX especially as it was a small light weight two seater that could be had with a 390 Ford engine.

390 FORD?!?!

Who told you such rubbish?
 
Firebird
390 FORD?!?!

Who told you such rubbish?



Edit:

Wow you're right! I can't believe I ever listened to this guy that told me it was a Ford 390. I should have looked into this one myself as my knowledge of AMC is quite limited.

My deepest appologies to any AMC fans I have offended with my outright ignorance.
 
Velocity
If the 390 isn't Fords then who's was it?

AMC's!!

Velocity
... I know the engine and tranny at least were borrowed from another manufacturer.


All AMXs had AMC engines. The only engines AMC ever used from another manufacturer was the Pontiac 2.5L "Iron Duke" I4 in the early-'80s in Spirit, Concord and Eagle, and a Porsche/Audi 2.0L I4 in the Gremlin in the late '70s. The AMC V8s: 290, 304, 343, 360, 390 and 401, were a common design (they shared exterior dimensions; 390s and 401s had a lot of forged steel pieces in place of cast iron pieces, such as the crankshaft and con-rods), and shared no engineering with any other manufacturer's V8.

The transmissions in AMX were Borg-Warners (when equipped with the AMC 390 V8 the customer had a choice between a T10 four-speed manual or M12 three-speed automatic). As you may or may not know Borg-Warner supplied transmissions to a multitude of car companies, including Kaiser-Jeep, For, and British-Leyland.

Some of the ancillary parts for the engine were made by other companies, such as the starter and alternator (built by Motorola) and the carburetor, which was a four-barrel Ford Motorcraft.
 
Slap the guy who told you that crap upside the head for me, will ya?

:D
 
What about the 67-68 Ford fairlane pretty capable yet heardly talked about.
 
Firebird
Some of the ancillary parts for the engine were made by other companies, such as the starter and alternator (built by Motorola) and the carburetor, which was a four-barrel Ford Motorcraft.

Ah ha! This must have been what this relative...errr I mean friend of mine was thinking when he started jabbering about it. Well I can at least tell him he was right about the carb being Fords... :dopey:
 
PublicSecrecy
The Plymouth roadrunner! It looks funny anyway.
Roadrunner.jpg

How is the superbird overlooked?
 
Velocity, it's a shame they were unreliable, as with other Chrysler Corp vehicles, because the Aspen R/T & Volare RR were fun, sporty little cars that were quite respectable for the time with their 360,400s. They also looked very kewl. 👍

76 & 78 Volare Roadrunners,... yeah baby!! :)

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Personally, I've always felt that the R code Studebakers are sorely overlooked muscle cars.

The Larks and Avantis available with these engines often times handed Chevys and Hemis their collective @sses at the strip.

The Avanti R1 was a 289 cubic inch carbureted version with a 4 barrel and the R2 was a 289 cubic inch version equipped with a supercharger. The R3 was a special performance supercharged variation displacing 304 cubic inches and very few of these were built. The R3 version came with a bored out 304.5 cubic inch V8 stuffed into the engine bay, modified suspension and 4-wheel disc brakes. Responsibility for the aggressive engine development plans fell into the hands of Andy Granatelli of Indianapolis 500 fame. Like the earlier 289 cid R2 version, the R3 was also supercharged, fully blueprinted to racing specs and hand built by Paxton. There were also R4 and R5 performance variatrions, but none of these were sold to the public.

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Avanti

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Lark

R3engb.jpg

R3 Code Studebaker 304 producing upwards of 335hp in 1963!
 
Firebird
AMC's!!




All AMXs had AMC engines. The only engines AMC ever used from another manufacturer was the Pontiac 2.5L "Iron Duke" I4 in the early-'80s in Spirit, Concord and Eagle, and a Porsche/Audi 2.0L I4 in the Gremlin in the late '70s. The AMC V8s: 290, 304, 343, 360, 390 and 401, were a common design (they shared exterior dimensions; 390s and 401s had a lot of forged steel pieces in place of cast iron pieces, such as the crankshaft and con-rods), and shared no engineering with any other manufacturer's V8.

The transmissions in AMX were Borg-Warners (when equipped with the AMC 390 V8 the customer had a choice between a T10 four-speed manual or M12 three-speed automatic). As you may or may not know Borg-Warner supplied transmissions to a multitude of car companies, including Kaiser-Jeep, For, and British-Leyland.

Some of the ancillary parts for the engine were made by other companies, such as the starter and alternator (built by Motorola) and the carburetor, which was a four-barrel Ford Motorcraft.
And for the record, the Motorcraft 4-bbl carb was a POS.
Yes, the resident "Ford Guy" just said the Ford Motorcraft carb was crap.
The first thing my old man did to the "Bird of legend" was swap out the Motorcrap carb for a decent Holley 750 double-pumper. (trust me, the 390-FE is not the "boat anchor" some claim it to be. Especially if it is wearing a big Holley as a "hat".)
I believe that the first mod for Ford guys in the 60's looking for better throttle response, was to dump the OE carb for a Holley.
The original "battle wagon" (1970 LTD Country Squire-vinyl, roof-rack, and trailer hitch) was equipped with 429-SCJ with a 1050 Holley.
I think it qualifies as a musclecar. So do all the guys that lost the bet that it wouldn't do 100 in the second of its three gears. (It would upshift at about 106)

As for the AMX/Javelin AMC had its own 390, as Firebird said. However, in the 1969-1970 "Trans-am" racing season it duked it out on the track with the 290 as the regulations limited engine displacement to 5-liters/302 cu. in.

(That's why Chevy had a 302 in the Z-28 in 1969. As did Ford. It was for homologation. The manufacturers had to sell so many of the cars for them to be eligible to race.
 
Gil
However, in the 1969-1970 "Trans-am" racing season it duked it out on the track with the 290 as the regulations limited engine displacement to 5-liters/302 cu. in.

5L = 305cu.in.

The 290 was bored out another hundreth of an inch or so to make it 304cu.in. for Trans Am use in '68 and '69. (The 304 that appeared in the passenger cars in '70 was a stroked 290)

:)
 
Ah, thanks for the link. The thing I've seen is just a Fairlane (or possibly something else entirely, I'm not too familliar with that era).
 
So if chevy had a 305 smallblock (what's going in my biscayne soon) then why do peopke say they made a 302? Do both ford and chevy make 302s?
 
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