P-Q-R time gaps

[NommyNom]

Preface: talking about cup races, not daily.

Practicing I can get about a second from top ten times, I qualify pretty well and get under a second from my practice time. Come race time, I seem to “chicken out” by playing it very conservative.

In my mind, the race is more survival than speed so I’ll run consistent lap times but those are even a second or so slower than qualifying. Is this a common issue or should I change my mindset?

I try to be a courteous racer; I use my signal to allow passing when someone obviously has more speed, I leave room if someone noses in a turn and I stay inside if I decide to attack/late brake, hardly ever getting penalties.

I guess the second question is; does niceness=weakness?

 

[Sean Renon]

Preface: talking about cup races, not daily.

Practicing I can get about a second from top ten times, I qualify pretty well and get under a second from my practice time. Come race time, I seem to “chicken out” by playing it very conservative.

In my mind, the race is more survival than speed so I’ll run consistent lap times but those are even a second or so slower than qualifying. Is this a common issue or should I change my mindset?

I try to be a courteous racer; I use my signal to allow passing when someone obviously has more speed, I leave room if someone noses in a turn and I stay inside if I decide to attack/late brake, hardly ever getting penalties.

I guess the second question is; does niceness=weakness?

My race pace is about a second slower than my best qualifying laps, I think that's pretty typical - and is magnified during FIA races as most of us are short shifting to conserve fuel.

 

[John Crellin]

It depends on the track, the position, whether Im battling anyone, whether there is tire wear, whether I am saving fuel, what lap I am on, whether i am slip streaming, etc
A lot goes into this. On Tokyo for example, I tend to race faster than my quali times due to the ridiculous amount of slipstream time available and the high speed corners.
OTOH, on Nurb I tend to be much slower than quali due to the danger in pushing it on that track, where racing is really an exercise in not wrecking.

If I find myself mid pack I tend to be battling for position more so corners slow drastically, If Im in Race C or an FIA then I conserve fuel.

 

[RacingKing89674]

You will obviously be slower when battling, because you have to leave da space, compromising your optimal racing line. That's why a lot of the time, it's smarter to be patient and work together with other cars, so you can go faster together and make/close a gap.

 

[John Crellin]

That's why a lot of the time, it's smarter to be patient and work together with other cars, so you can go faster together and make/close a gap.

^^this. We need a GTSort PSA about this, or they need to put this into the sportsmanship videos. It blows my mind how people dont see this as a thing.

Yesterday on Nurb 24hr was a prime example where this strategy takes over. If some one is trying to push by you...let them passs!!!! just do it. If you are fast then you can sit on their tail and slip stream off of them and pass them in the back straight, but battling on that track is a disaster waiting to happen, and blocking is a recipe for a rear end off the track.

Tokyo also, leapfrogging is soooo much faster than any other strategy and is almost unfair to those who dont have anyone near them.

 

[fastone371]

I like skipping qualifying to start races in the rear, I like it best when I start dead last. I definitely race slower than I qualify, part of the reason we get smashed into so much is because people try to race at qualifying speed. That doesnt work too well when other cars are around, you dont have as much room for wide corners, maybe you have an early braker in front of you, and traffic seldom lets you pick the perfect line. Even if you qualify #1 you are bound to have someone behind you sticking his nose alongside you at every corner slowing you down. Even though they dont have the speed to pull off the pass they continue to pull a bumper in alongside you at every opportunity. I just dont understand why people drive like that, if they are faster then make the pass, putting a bumper beside you every other corner just slows both down. I can only surmise they are idiots. I will follow and wait for a mistake or figure out where I am faster so I can get a run on them to make the pass. Even at Tokyo yesterday I was starting in 20th and usually finishing 6th to 10th because guys are crashing like madmen, even on a track that has no sand and walls to keep you on course. Instead of running at race speed the idiots try racing at qualy speed and nipping curbs which are taking 5/10ths of off their laps with every touch. You just cant fix stupid.

 

[NommyNom]

Thanks for your replies! Yes I wish people would understand that you’re faster together, trying to edge someone out every other turn just slows you both down. With that, blocking someone obviously faster doesn’t help, (unless it’s the last lap and just a few turns from finish) but it allows more people to catch up and making the probability of an accident that much higher.

 

[Sean Renon]

Thanks for your replies! Yes I wish people would understand that you’re faster together, trying to edge someone out every other turn just slows you both down. With that, blocking someone obviously faster doesn’t help, (unless it’s the last lap and just a few turns from finish) but it allows more people to catch up and making the probability of an accident that much higher.

Generally speaking I will always go for an overtake if the opportunity is there unless;

1. That person is obviously faster and I'm just hoping to draft/follow as long as possible.
2. It's Blue Moon Bay and passing is irrelevant early on.
3. I'm desperately trying to conserve fuel.

Other than that I'm not going to get in line behind somebody else just because we're faster that way, passing is hard and there is no guarantee that I'll have an opportunity to do it later in the race.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Driving at the limit during a race will often get you in trouble. That's why backing off a bit is something I notice most (cleaner) drivers will do.

That said, I argue that the matter below is contributing to the time losses.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/non-linear-throttle.366409/

Basically, the game penalizes you a lot more than in prior versions for being conservative on the gas.

 

[fastone371]

Driving at the limit during a race will often get you in trouble. That's why backing off a bit is something I notice most (cleaner) drivers will do.

That said, I argue that the matter below is contributing to the time losses.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/non-linear-throttle.366409/

Basically, the game penalizes you a lot more than in prior versions for being conservative on the gas.

I would guess that PD figured it would be easier to drive with a controller using non-linear accelerators. I use a wheel and I wish there were settings to alter my throttle application. I have a lot of travel 50% -100% throttle, I would rather it be the opposite to where I have more travel 0%-50% as I think it would make it easier for accelerating out of corners. On real life cars, even very high HP, 1000HP and up there is not as much difference in power output above 50% opening, idle to 50% throttle openings are a huge change, thats where you really need to modulate it.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I would guess that PD figured it would be easier to drive with a controller using non-linear accelerators. I use a wheel and I wish there were settings to alter my throttle application. I have a lot of travel 50% -100% throttle, I would rather it be the opposite to where I have more travel 0%-50% as I think it would make it easier for accelerating out of corners. On real life cars, even very high HP, 1000HP and up there is not as much difference in power output above 50% opening, idle to 50% throttle openings are a huge change, thats where you really need to modulate it.

Actually, the current setup has 50% of the throttle within 75% of travel. Therefore, it's easier to modulate the throttle within that range.

Conversely, 50-100% is confined to a small sliver. In my eyes, this can lead to big time discrepancies between a Q lap where I'm mashing the throttle for the best time versus a race where I may want to back off a little yet end up dropping off more than that because I can't add the amount of power I want.

It's also worth mentioning draft effects in a race. They can add more speed but on the other side, also change braking points. That's something many have to compensate for on the fly since they practice in clean air.

 

[fastone371]

Actually, the current setup has 50% of the throttle within 75% of travel. Therefore, it's easier to modulate the throttle within that range.

Conversely, 50-100% is confined to a small sliver. In my eyes, this can lead to big time discrepancies between a Q lap where I'm mashing the throttle for the best time versus a race where I may want to back off a little yet end up dropping off more than that because I can't add the amount of power I want.

It's also worth mentioning draft effects in a race. They can add more speed but on the other side, also change braking points. That's something many have to compensate for on the fly since they practice in clean air.

Actually, the current setup has 50% of the throttle within 75% of travel. Therefore, it's easier to modulate the throttle within that range.

Conversely, 50-100% is confined to a small sliver. In my eyes, this can lead to big time discrepancies between a Q lap where I'm mashing the throttle for the best time versus a race where I may want to back off a little yet end up dropping off more than that because I can't add the amount of power I want.

It's also worth mentioning draft effects in a race. They can add more speed but on the other side, also change braking points. That's something many have to compensate for on the fly since they practice in clean air.

 

[fastone371]

I wish my Fanatec pedal set was like that, it definitely favors the 50%-100% throttle opening side

 

[ghostrider135]

I'm the complete opposite to the OP, My race pace on a clean unhindered lap is usually a good 1-2 seconds faster than my outright qualifying pace, I don't know what that says about me as a person.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I'm the complete opposite to the OP, My race pace on a clean unhindered lap is usually a good 1-2 seconds faster than my outright qualifying pace, I don't know what that says about me as a person.

It means you haven't unlocked your full potential yet
You should be able to achieve the same times in qualifying, and some more since you don't have to play it safe and keep it on the track

 

[ghostrider135]

It means you haven't unlocked your full potential yet
You should be able to achieve the same times in qualifying, and some more since you don't have to play it safe and keep it on the track

Generally if I'm confident with the track Brands Hatch/Interlagos etc I'll just set one flying lap and be done with it since I know I can usually make up a good number of places in the races and I believe in turn it also boosts DR significantly that way.

However if its a track I'm much less comfortable with I might do 3-5 laps just to get my braking points and apexes down and focus on building my pace in the race.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Generally if I'm confident with the track Brands Hatch/Interlagos etc I'll just set one flying lap and be done with it since I know I can usually make up a good number of places in the races and I believe in turn it also boosts DR significantly that way.

However if its a track I'm much less comfortable with I might do 3-5 laps just to get my braking points and apexes down and focus on building my pace in the race.

It helps to set a proper qualifying though
That is if you have the time

 

[Robben]

I'm the complete opposite to the OP, My race pace on a clean unhindered lap is usually a good 1-2 seconds faster than my outright qualifying pace, I don't know what that says about me as a person.

Generally if I'm confident with the track Brands Hatch/Interlagos etc I'll just set one flying lap and be done with it
However if its a track I'm much less comfortable with I might do 3-5 laps just to get my braking points and apexes down and focus on building my pace in the race.

The OP is talking about FIA events though.

These are complicated by the qualifying being done a) with 19 other cars on the track b) fuel consumption/load and tyre wear and c) limited time to set a lap in.

So, @NommyNom given the above...of course you will be slower than practice

since I know I can usually make up a good number of places in the races and I believe in turn it also boosts DR significantly that way.

It doesn't make any difference to your DR gains. DR is gained and lost from those you finished ahead of or behind, not how many places you gained.