Paris: New Elise, Elan, Elite, Eterne and Esprit

[TheCracker]

Cheers Paulie!

Like the man has pointed out, the Elan is a good deal lighter than the car it looks to replace. In fact the Esprit looks to weigh the same as the Evora is now. The Elise is a bit disappointing at 1095kg, but that's still going to be substantially lighter than a Boxter.

 

[Paulie]

Cheers Paulie!

Like the man has pointed out, the Elan is a good deal lighter than the car it looks to replace. In fact the Esprit looks to weigh the same as the Evora is now. The Elise is a bit disappointing at 1095kg, but that's still going to be substantially lighter than a Boxter.

Despite the Elise gaining some weight, it's also gained a lot more power and should be a faster car overall.

 

[Ardius]

What horrible, boring designs. And all the cars look (effectively) the same! I think I can certainly say I'm going to probably hate new Lotus, I don't really like manufacturers like BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Peugeot, etc who design whole line-ups of cars that all look the same. Its even worse though that Lotus are producing sportscars, where they have the chance to have different designs!

I don't really care about the weight thing, as has been mentioned, there is only so much Lotus can do to stay within safety and they clearly want to have a luxury element now.

The design itself to me looks horribly generic.

Lotus Cars certainly haven't been winning me over with their on-going dispute with Lotus Racing either....

 

[Famine]

I'm sorry, but Lotus is light I thought. Not anymore? Why?

But you must "simplify, then add lightness." Looks like Lotus (sorry, Proton) is doing it wrong.

So does this model line make sense? You have almost 4 mid engine 2 seaters of various hp's plus a crappy sedan and a bad supercar. I really hope by 2017, Lotus is almost at the grips of death again. all because they went against Chapman.

The Esprit was never light and it was launched (and updated) within Chapman's lifetime. Sure, the S1 was a metric tonne - which is some fabled promised land these days - but look at the other cars of the day. It weighed 25% more than the Golf GTi, 12% more than an Escort RS and 10% more than an Opel Kadett, while coming in at 30% less than a Datsun 280Z.

Flash forwards 33 years and the Esprit now weighs 1,450kg. That's almost identical to the top Golf (Golf R), 1.1% less than the Focus RS and 11% less than the top Astra, while coming in at 20% less than a Nissan GT-R.


In terms of what's around it, the Esprit is lighter now than it ever was. So who's going against Chapman?

 

[TheCracker]

We have remember that all these new Lotus are concept cars. There's nothing to say that any of them will look this way when they hit production or if they'll even ever make production.

 

[Paulie]

We have remember that all these new Lotus are concept cars. There's nothing to say that any of them will look this way when they hit production or if they'll even ever make production.

They're already talking model years for half of these cars, but you're right in saying there's nothing to say the designs won't change between now and production.

 

[exigeracer]

We have remember that all these new Lotus are concept cars. There's nothing to say that any of them will look this way when they hit production or if they'll even ever make production.

Just look at the Eterne - they didn't even want to show the interior of the thing.

Paulie, your source took a decent amount of artistic license with thos enumbers. Unless I've missed it in the Lotus press release, no hard numbers have been released, weight, power or displacement.

 

[Paulie]

Probably, they do err on the "Nice and round numbers" side of things.

Edit: Autoblog quotes weight figures as well, 2849lbs for the Elan, 2409lbs for the Elise.

 

[Ardius]

We have remember that all these new Lotus are concept cars. There's nothing to say that any of them will look this way when they hit production or if they'll even ever make production.

That may be, but it is a good indicator of what they will generally look like.

And they are clearly intending to design the whole line-up similarly - which is what I dislike more than the design itself.

 

[TheCracker]

That may be, but it is a good indicator of what they will generally look like.

And they are clearly intending to design the whole line-up similarly - which is what I dislike more than the design itself.

You could easily say the same about their 1970's/80's line-up too. The Eclat/Elite and Esprit all looked very similar. You can't really blame a manufacturer for wanting a 'corporate style' for their line-up.

 

[Ardius]

I know the reasons and I know pretty much every manufacturer has at least done it at one time or other, even some manufacturers I love do it.

Doesn't mean I have to like it. I still like Aston Martin and they don't seem capable of making a new design . Although, at least in that case, the DB7/9/Vanquish came first and then I started to get bored with the design for every model afterwards. Whereas here it seems we get all the models at once looking pretty much the same...

 

[Neal]

Esprit- 1450kg
Elan- 1295kg (considerably lighter than the Evora with the same breed of engine and a helluva lot more power)
Elise- 1095kg
Eterne- 1800kg
Elite- 1650kg
Taken from http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/6F76D1BF726E88FDCA2577AF0013116A

Paulie, your source took a decent amount of artistic license with thos enumbers. Unless I've missed it in the Lotus press release, no hard numbers have been released, weight, power or displacement.

The figures are right

The Icon Is Back

The most eagerly anticipated Lotus makes its return. Without doubt, this is the car that the true Lotus aficionados have been waiting for: The ultimate Lotus.

The new 2013 Esprit represents the very essence of exclusive supercar driving. It picks up and exceeds the legacy of it's forefathers. Think of it as a statement of superiority. Think of it as Lotus CEO Dany Bahar's personal statement of intent, his vision for the future of Lotus.

Dany Bahar, Chief Executive Officer of Group Lotus, said: "The 2013 Esprit is the ultimate supercar. In the past when people thought of the 2013 Esprit, they thought of the movies, Bond, Pretty Woman, Basic Instinct but this time around, the car is the star of the show."

"One has to be very careful when taking on the challenge of reinventing such an iconic classic as the 2013 Esprit - everyone has an opinion. There's a fine balance between acknowledging the greatness of the past whilst at the same time rapidly leaping forward to the future and ensuring that this car not only does the name 2013 Esprit justice but also the Lotus brand. I think we've managed to find the balance and in doing so created a new icon, a car people will find hard to resist."

"Not only does the 2013 Esprit look incredible but it has the performance to match. We've stuck to the Lotus core values of performance through lightweight and teamed them with future technology and exceptional engineering to ensure that the 2013 Esprit will be the leader of the pack. The design is aggressive, you have to see it to appreciate how low and wide the proportions are but it still retains a level of dignity, of class and most of all exclusivity. I'm very proud of this car."

Powered by a 5.0 litre V8 pressure charged engine delivering up to 620 PS, the 2013 Esprit retains exceptional performance through it's unique lightweight design making it the ultimate expression of Lotus supercar ownership. It is the supercar that will redefine ride and handling, performance, comfort and exclusivity.

The styling of the 2013 Esprit echoes the performance with strong lines throughout the sleek low body. The symmetry through the mass and proportion of the 2013 Esprit give it an intense look, it's the perfect example of the new Lotus DNA in action.

The 2013 Esprit is more than an evolution, it's a redefinition.

2013 Lotus Esprit Specifications

•Layout 2 seater, mid-engined, rear wheel drive
•Engine Petrol, hybrid optional
•Hybrid technology Optional KERS
•Cylinder V8
•Capacity 5.0 litre
•Power/Torque 620 PS / 720 Nm
•Rev limit 8,500 rpm
•0-100 km/h 3.4 seconds
•Top speed 330 km/h
•CO2 approx (CO2/km) 250 g/km**
•Weight 1,450 kg
•Seats 2
•Transmission 7 Speed DCT
•Drive RWD
•Start of production End of 2012
•Enters the market Spring 2013
•Price indication Circa £110,000
*Please refer to the ‘Further Information' section in the Media Kit for information relating to this specification
**Using optional hybrid technolgy

Elan Press Release

Etern Press Release

Elise Press Release

 

[Paulie]

That's re-assuring, thanks Neal.👍
These concepts must all be working concepts unless all their performance figures are random guesswork. Funny thing is, all the cars look almost production ready, so what's with the 3-5yr wait for most of them?

 

[TheCracker]

Cost will be the main issue along with the fact that their factory at present probably couldn't cater for all those different models at once. Unless they start manufacturing in Malaysia too, which has been rumored in the past.

 

[homeforsummer]

I understand where you are coming from, but I too share a great deal of passion for the automobile, and that's how I've always wanted Lotus to be.

That's how you've always wanted Lotus to be? This is what I meant by the age reference. You've seen what, two or three brand new Lotus released in your lifetime? Maybe one since you've been old enough to hop on the internet and have an opinion about such things?

I've absolutely no problem with how old you are, but it's more the concept of you finding these new models some kind of massive affront to the history of Lotus when you're familiar with perhaps one or two of the dozens and dozens of cars they've made.

Not only that, but as I said before: The current Elise (and derivatives) are the only sub-1000kg Lotus and has been for a very long time. Even the Elan S2 was 1100kg, heavier than the new Elise will be.

You have to go back as far as the early 80s (1982, to be precise) before even I was born to find the only other sub-1000kg non-Elise based Lotus, which was the ungainly Elite, which ended production that year.

Lotus don't necessarily need to be light full stop to still be a Lotus, just light in comparison to competitors or for the class. All the new ones seem par for the course, and the new Elise is still light compared to its rivals. Very light.

Look, when I do drive, I don't want something covered in slatted lines, I like a little originality in design. They might be a company that has to make money, but I would have been happier say they had gone a more classical route. None of the cars are breathtaking to me, and that's ALL we know about them, they could be great sellers or just flops.

"Going down a more classical route" is much of the reason the UK barely has a car industry any more. We've always been best when we've been right on the cutting edge, which is why the new non-retro Jaguars are suddenly selling like hot cakes and better than virtually anything in their respective classes, and why up-to-the-minute designs like the Ariel Atom are wanted worldwide.

Much as it's nice to think that Lotus could have a whole range of featherweight cars, it's much more important that they make good, competitive cars that carry on with some of the brand's other traditions like excellent performance and brilliant handling.

 

[analog]

A daring, bold and risky strategy to release an entire future line-up at once to the public, even aside from the complete new upmarket strategy they're trying to achieve.
Don't mind the increase in weight on some models as, and being mentioned before, that's largely relative to the overall increase of weight on all cars today compared to, say, 15 or 20 years ago.

Adding a supersaloon, large GT and a city car is also interesting ( in a good way ) as Lotus mostly didn't obey to conventions before, so any new direction is almost inherently historically appropriate although today adding these sort of cars to a line-up otherwise mostly made up by sports cars is rapidly becoming the norm and therefore almost conventional ironically.

The only thing I'm not ( yet? ) convinced by is the new styling direction, all cars do look pretty, have interesting details and are perfectly proportioned and executed but.......a bit conventional or predictable?
To be honest, the only Lotus of recent years which did convince me stylingwise was the latest Evora as there isn't an angle or detail I don't like and I really expected, hoped and assumed this would be the starting point of a new design language after the rather dull Europa.

The new interiors do convince me though, as they seem to be cutting-edge and look very tasty, it's just the exterior design which although there's nothing strictly wrong or odd, just not as beautiful and distinctive ( or even modern ) looking as the Evora to my eyes at least.
But then again I'm not part of the target group they're aiming for and at least Lotus is back on the map for a while and I hope they will succeed.

 

[Jim Prower]

Very interesting. I'd have to say that the Elan probably interests me the most, mostly because it ends up becoming the 911-style middle child of the group.

The rest, they're alright. Problem is that when I look at them, all I see is the Honda CR-Z.


That isn't a good thing.

I see the LF-A/Acura concept/Honda HSV-10, particularly that first one, in the design language. and it seems to work for me, if it's a bit shocking.

 

[Eric.]

The Elan and Esprit look identical to me...

The Elise is kind of odd and I don't like that they've completely abandoned the bottom of the market.

And so it looks like the Evora is the last Lotus I'll be liking for some time.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

That's how you've always wanted Lotus to be? This is what I meant by the age reference. You've seen what, two or three brand new Lotus released in your lifetime? Maybe one since you've been old enough to hop on the internet and have an opinion about such things?

I've absolutely no problem with how old you are, but it's more the concept of you finding these new models some kind of massive affront to the history of Lotus when you're familiar with perhaps one or two of the dozens and dozens of cars they've made.

Not only that, but as I said before: The current Elise (and derivatives) are the only sub-1000kg Lotus and has been for a very long time. Even the Elan S2 was 1100kg, heavier than the new Elise will be.

You have to go back as far as the early 80s (1982, to be precise) before even I was born to find the only other sub-1000kg non-Elise based Lotus, which was the ungainly Elite, which ended production that year.

Lotus don't necessarily need to be light full stop to still be a Lotus, just light in comparison to competitors or for the class. All the new ones seem par for the course, and the new Elise is still light compared to its rivals. Very light.



"Going down a more classical route" is much of the reason the UK barely has a car industry any more. We've always been best when we've been right on the cutting edge, which is why the new non-retro Jaguars are suddenly selling like hot cakes and better than virtually anything in their respective classes, and why up-to-the-minute designs like the Ariel Atom are wanted worldwide.

Much as it's nice to think that Lotus could have a whole range of featherweight cars, it's much more important that they make good, competitive cars that carry on with some of the brand's other traditions like excellent performance and brilliant handling.

I suppose a good point is made, but I do not like the way the cars look. Just cause it's going for the future, it doesn't need to look like a group of Transformers.

 

[Tornado]

I've given it some more thought, and I've decided I have two problems with these designs:

• The Elise. Everything about it.
• With the exception of the Esprit, these all look like rejected 5-year-old Honda concept cars. Oh look, its a CR-Z! And an S2000 successor (though I actually kinda like the Elite anyways)! And an S2000 successor that happens to be a sedan! To be frank, they should have modeled these after the Evora design language rather then throwing it out (though I'm glad they didn't just copy the Ferrari California like they did with the Elise refresh).

Now, I have some more specific reservations about some of these (mostly Elan related), but I doubt Lotus is going to actually make the Elan anyways, so they mostly don't matter.
I will say that (other than the Elise), Lotus does seem to be trying to keep the weight down. I mean, these numbers may seem large, but they are a bit smaller than the competitors on the market. 1295kg is decent for a Cayman competitor. 1450kg is decent for an F458 competitor (assuming Lamborghini doesn't go ahead with their new carbon fiber production process, of course), as the Esprit was always only a little lighter than the equivalent Ferrari (1450kg is only, what, 70kg heavier than the last versions of the original Esprit?).

 

[homeforsummer]

Whilst I disagree with you on the general appearance of the new Lotus Toronado, I know where you're coming from with the Honda references. The new models (especially the Elise) have a lot of similarity to Honda's Open Study Model concept from a few years back and the CR-Z concept:

(Pic credits... me!)​

However, since I thought those were great looking cars, the Lotus appeal too.

What should be said is that the Elise concept is for a 2015 model, and some of the other cars are a fair way in the future too. Nothing guarantees they'll still look like that in another half-decade...

 

[Keef]

Can somebody tell me what the deal is with a 2400 pound Elise? That makes it as heavy as the current Miata, whereas all the previous Miatas are lighter. Plus they're used, cheap as hell, and can be made to outperform an Elise for quite a lot less money. The fact that this one has gained 500 pounds makes it that much more doable.

Mazda has plans to make the next Miata smaller and quite a lot lighter than the current one, back to first-gen levels. Looks like Mazda is the only mainstream company out there that still does light.

 

[homeforsummer]

Can somebody tell me what the deal is with a 2400 pound Elise?

It's gained 400 lb but it's also gained between 60% and 200% more power depending on the current Elise you pick.

That makes it as heavy as the current Miata

...only a lot more powerful.

whereas all the previous Miatas are lighter. Plus they're used, cheap as hell, and can be made to outperform an Elise for quite a lot less money.

You have to start spending a fair bit on a Miata to get it to outperform even a basic Elise. It's academic anyway because you can upgrade an Elise too until it walks all over pretty much anything on a circuit.

They aren't really in the same market segment anyway. The 2015 Elise looks much more like being a Boxster rival, in which case it's a good 400 pounds lighter and would destroy one pretty much anywhere.

Mazda has plans to make the next Miata smaller and quite a lot lighter than the current one, back to first-gen levels. Looks like Mazda is the only mainstream company out there that still does light.

True. Though as I've said many times, the new Lotus models aren't exactly heavy when compared to the competition.

Plus, I still think that a 2400lb Elise with 300+ bhp still leaves a rather large gap at the bottom of the market which I wouldn't be surprised if they filled. I'm sure there were rumblings a year or so back about a sub-Elise model, since the current Elise has already got fairly expensive.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm sure there were rumblings a year or so back about a sub-Elise model, since the current Elise has already got fairly expensive.

That's what i was thinking. I'm sure i've heard of plans afoot for a '7' style car to compete with the Xbow and Atoms and obviously Caterhams.

 

[Neal]

That's what i was thinking. I'm sure i've heard of plans afoot for a '7' style car to compete with the Xbow and Atoms and obviously Caterhams.

A new 340R effectively or a 2-Eleven if you ignore that it's not open wheeled...and the price!

That could be a long way off though as the current plan to release the Esprit first in 2013 and the Elise last in 2015 (I think) indicates anything else will be after that.

 

[Seismica]

I'm liking the new Elise and Esprit. Sure the Elise is heavier than the old one, but it's still pretty darn light, plus I think it will be putting out similar power to weight ratios as the old one regardless.

 

[Keef]

It's gained 400 lb but it's also gained between 60% and 200% more power depending on the current Elise you pick.

...only a lot more powerful.

Power doesn't help you turn or brake, and you already know that's what I was getting at.

You have to start spending a fair bit on a Miata to get it to outperform even a basic Elise. It's academic anyway because you can upgrade an Elise too until it walks all over pretty much anything on a circuit.

You can upgrade an Elise, yes. After you spend 50 grand on it. And because it costs 50 grand, that leaves you about $45,000 to upgrade your extremely well-conditioned first-gen Miata - with a hardtop - or $40,000 after you buy that nearly-new NB with only 10,000 miles on the clock. I can list various other reasons why Miatas in general, even the new ones, are vastly better cars than this Elise concept.

They aren't really in the same market segment anyway. The 2015 Elise looks much more like being a Boxster rival, in which case it's a good 400 pounds lighter and would destroy one pretty much anywhere.

We'll have to wait and see. Either way, the Elise appears to be moving out of the "lightweight" category in order to fight the Boxster, leaving the best car every designed, the Miata, alone. Domination of the segment would ensue if it hadn't already been since 1989.

True. Though as I've said many times, the new Lotus models aren't exactly heavy when compared to the competition.

The fallacy everyone likes to bring up when their favorite car gets fat. Just because it's lighter than the competition doesn't mean it didn't gain 400 pounds.

Plus, I still think that a 2400lb Elise with 300+ bhp still leaves a rather large gap at the bottom of the market which I wouldn't be surprised if they filled Mazda filled for 1/3 the price.

Fixed.

 

[Tornado]

What I think would be best is if Lotus just lets the Elise name die out, and make this Elise concept actually be the successor to the current Europa.

 

[exigeracer]

You can upgrade an Elise, yes. After you spend 50 grand on it.

You can't really be comparing buying a brand new Elise to a modifying a 20 year old Mazda.

Here's a 5 year old Elise down the street from you asking 24,900.

 

[homeforsummer]

Power doesn't help you turn or brake, and you already know that's what I was getting at.

Fair enough.

You can upgrade an Elise, yes. After you spend 50 grand on it. And because it costs 50 grand, that leaves you about $45,000 to upgrade your extremely well-conditioned first-gen Miata - with a hardtop - or $40,000 after you buy that nearly-new NB with only 10,000 miles on the clock. I can list various other reasons why Miatas in general, even the new ones, are vastly better cars than this Elise concept.

Err...

You can't really be comparing buying a brand new Elise to a modifying a 20 year old Mazda.

Here's a 5 year old Elise down the street from you asking 24,900.

^ Exige beat me to it. And here in the UK you can pick up an Elise from about £5k. Of course an NA MX5 that's as much as 21 years old is going to be cheaper than a brand new Elise and if you spend $50k modifying pretty much anything it'd beat an Elise...

We'll have to wait and see. Either way, the Elise appears to be moving out of the "lightweight" category in order to fight the Boxster, leaving the best car every designed, the Miata, alone. Domination of the segment would ensue if it hadn't already been since 1989.

Well... yeah, but the NC isn't quite the car the NA and NB were. And at no point ever has the Elise been an MX5 competitor so why start now? It's always been a good deal more expensive (back in 1996 a good £6k more in the UK, and today probably a good £6-8k more) and a fair bit more hardcore.

So if they've never been rivals before, why start now?

The fallacy everyone likes to bring up when their favorite car gets fat. Just because it's lighter than the competition doesn't mean it didn't gain 400 pounds.

I'm not denying that. But context is important, so it was worth mentioning. The Elise is in a different class now. It doesn't matter that it's gained 400 pounds because it's no longer supposed to be a flyweight track car. It's now a focused Boxster rival. And when viewed like that, it's still a light car.

Hell, it's still as light as the Miata you keep harping on about, only it's got double the power.

Fixed.

Funny. But then Mazda are unlikely to bring out a 8-900kg, mid-engined sports car really, are they? The next Miata will probably be lighter but I seriously doubt it'll be more focused because that isn't what the market wants. The whole reason the MX5 has put on weight over the years is because of safety, comfort, equipment, emissions... and a new Miata will still have to meet all those.