PD forgot to "rebadge" the BRZ properly

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Nielsen

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First of all, I don't really consider the BRZ to be a rebadged GT 86 but PD actually messed up with the BRZ badge. While the car is modeled correctly for the dealership, garage and photo travel views, the BRZ emblem is missing on the car when being driven on a track. We all know why we bought this piece of DLC - because it is different from the GT 86 and FR-S. However, when PD fails to capture all the details which make the BRZ unique and charge money for it, then it's hard not to feel highly annoyed. For example, I like to take photographs of my cars on track in photo mode but every single rear shot of the car is ruined by the fact that they forgot to put the BRZ badge on the car when driving it. Nonetheless, it's nearly the only thing they had to remember for a car they already did model twice before. To be perfectly honest, it's a small catastrophy that they can't get the modeling of price tagged DLC 100 % right. Some may say the same for the sound of the HSV and overall I think PD needs to raise the bar of quality control.
 
Wow, just wow. I totally didn't notice that when I was taking pics the other night. Man, that actually annoys me that something like that was not noticed. Good catch!👍
 
Hmm, that's too bad. Modelling is usually PD's strongest point. But anyway this could be fixed in minutes probably, it's just the question of how can we let PD know about it.
 
That's it! I'm returning my copy!
 
I'm voting with my $'s here, so won't be buying this DLC on principle.

Same model, almost new badge is not worth $1.75
Same model, new livery and setup is not worth $1.75
New model, missing a key differentiation point is not worth $1.75

Imagine if they make us pay micro transactions for all those cut and paste Miata's, Skylines, RX7's etc or if they introduce new cars without really bothering to capture the soul of them... very sad.
 
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By the way, is the BRZ really supposed to sound differently than the FR-S and the 86GT?
Also, if it's got different suspension settings in real life, why in GT5 they're the same as those of the other two sister cars?
 
Apparently the Chinese motor industry has collectively bought the rights to the gt86 platform and are going to launch 25 new models of the identical car under 19 different brand names.
All of which will feature as gt5 dlc for $0.99 each, or in a bargain $24.50 pack called the "How many of the same thing can we actually get away with peddling to these fools? Pack".
Exciting stuff.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
By the way, is the BRZ really supposed to sound differently than the FR-S and the 86GT?
Also, if it's got different suspension settings in real life, why in GT5 they're the same as those of the other two sister cars?
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No, it should sound the same as the other two to be honest. They all use the same setup for engine and exhaust setup as far as I recall.

As for the suspension setting, I am kind of at a loss on why it isn't different. They copy over suspension settings that should be different, but when something should stay the same such as the exhaust/engine sound, they make it completely different. I am starting to realize:

http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/400x/27443500.jpg
 
I guess the next patch will fix this. I'm sure someone at PD will have noticed by now if they describe themselves as detail fanatics.
 
Why am I not surprised! I'm sure they will sort it in a patch though.

I also wish PD would stop giving us cars that are basically already in the game and more GTR's :ouch:
 
Bloody hell. The VW was over weight too on release if I recall.

Standards are slipping.
Maybe that should be premiums are slipping. I'm confused.
 
This is impossible... Kazunori and PD have an incredible attention to detail :sly:
/sarcasm
 
Yeah, apparently a lot of the cars in the game have errors like this going on. I heard from one person that the Ferarri crest on the 458 was just mirrored to be on the other side of the car and not actually put there...
 
I thought the subaru was suposed to have slightly more power too.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
By the way, is the BRZ really supposed to sound differently than the FR-S and the 86GT?
Also, if it's got different suspension settings in real life, why in GT5 they're the same as those of the other two sister cars?
Click to expand...

Handling is different. Does it really matter what the (unchangeable) stock settings show?

From this whole 86 family the only one that actually shows different suspension settings is the FT86 Concept, and it only differs at ride height. It's -20 at the front.
 
Does anyone have a picture showing what the OP is talking about?
 
Flaco13
Handling is different. Does it really matter what the (unchangeable) stock settings show?
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Yes, because they are mechanically the same car, meaning same suspension geometry, weight distribution, wheelbase, etc.
If the differences in handling in GT5 are due to some hidden "magic values" outside of spring rate, suspension or wheel alignment settings, that would not be a very good thing physics-wise.
 
grog
I thought the subaru was suposed to have slightly more power too.
Click to expand...

As I am going to purchase this car in the next month for reals.

All the variants are 147KW or 200 HP
 
Giygas
Yeah, apparently a lot of the cars in the game have errors like this going on. I heard from one person that the Ferarri crest on the 458 was just mirrored to be on the other side of the car and not actually put there...
Click to expand...

The writing on the right side brake calipers is reversed.
 
Flaco13
Handling is different. Does it really matter what the (unchangeable) stock settings show?
Click to expand...
If they are just hacking the physics engine together behind the scenes to show the differences rather than actually making the differences viewable, it doesn't speak well of the accuracy of the car.
 
Toronado
If they are just hacking the physics engine together behind the scenes to show the differences rather than actually making the differences viewable, it doesn't speak well of the accuracy of the car.
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I remember a video about the SLS AMG in GT5 in which it was told that PD insert various values into a physics engine. Whether it's those values that we see in the game I can't say but I wouldn't be suprised if PD has access to something that goes beyond the in-game settings. Maybe the grayed out values we see are nothing but estimates that have no actual impact on the physics and PD might just have copy pasted the GT 86 values without further thought.
 
Nielsen
I remember a video about the SLS AMG in GT5 in which it was told that PD insert various values into a physics engine. Whether it's those values that we see in the game I can't say but I wouldn't be suprised if PD has access to something that goes beyond the in-game settings. Maybe the grayed out values we see are nothing but estimates that have no actual impact on the physics and PD might just have copy pasted the GT 86 values without further thought.
Click to expand...

Those grayed numbers on the default suspension settings may just be place holder, most of the cars in GT5 come with 0.20 rear toe, but not all of the car does handle like having 0.20 rear toe.

Simple test, make note of the default suspension settings, buy a full custom suspension, adjust to the same value as the default one, then increase the ride height to compensate the lowered stance of the full custom kit ( a bit tricky to get right this one - usually add 10 to 25mm above 0 ). On some cars, they handle differently even with same spring, damper, anti roll bar, camber and toe as well as ride height.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Those grayed numbers on the default suspension settings may just be place holder, most of the cars in GT5 come with 0.20 rear toe, but not all of the car does handle like having 0.20 rear toe.
Click to expand...
But negative camber certainly is 0 degrees for most cars, this can be easily verified as the visual change when increasing it is quite apparent. So, if camber is indeed 0 even when it's grayed out, why shouldn't toe behave the same, since it's still under wheel alignment settings? And why use "0.20" as a placeholder/ offset value for rear toe? It wouldn't make much sense. Alignment settings in GT5 aren't offset values anyway (unlike ride height).

The reason the car behaves differently with custom suspensions might be that dimensionless settings (such as anti-roll bars and damper settings) might not be representing the same values anymore as when they're stock. In other words, that a stock "1" isn't the same as a full custom suspension "1". Spring rates become twice as hard when fitting them, so similar changes might also occur to damper settings. But we have no way to know since the telemetry is very lacking and user tweakable suspension settings make use of too much obfuscation and oversimplification (what about positive camber found in some cars in RL? There's nothing like that in GT5. Or cars with no anti-roll bars on one or both axles? Why does camber visually changes with suspension travel on cars with live axle suspensions? And the list could go on...).

They really need to remake the suspension set-up system from scratch, up to at least current PC-sim standards.
 
dbarrade
I'm voting with my $'s here, so won't be buying this DLC on principle.

Same model, almost new badge is not worth $1.75
Same model, new livery and setup is not worth $1.75
New model, missing a key differentiation point is not worth $1.75

Imagine if they make us pay micro transactions for all those cut and paste Miata's, Skylines, RX7's etc or if they introduce new cars without really bothering to capture the soul of them... very sad.
Click to expand...

$1.75! We get so screwed being Australian, faaark.

They should just price it in Yen exactly the same everywhere, done deal. 0.99USD = 0.95AUD, likewise $1.75AUD = $1.82USD, so virtually double, PD sometimes seriously, no not sometimes, almost all the time... bloody dissappointing.

AND THEN it doesn't even include the suspension changes, the gear ratio changes, or now, the badges!?!!? Sony as a whole company has gone to crap, they need to fix so many things, this mistake is symptomatic of many problems throughout the company, including PD, they have my negative vote this time, that's for sure.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
But negative camber certainly is 0 degrees for most cars, this can be easily verified as the visual change when increasing it is quite apparent. So, if camber is indeed 0 even when it's grayed out, why shouldn't toe behave the same, since it's still under wheel alignment settings? And why use "0.20" as a placeholder/ offset value for rear toe? It wouldn't make much sense. Alignment settings in GT5 aren't offset values anyway (unlike ride height).

The reason the car behaves differently with custom suspensions might be that dimensionless settings (such as anti-roll bars and damper settings) might not be representing the same values anymore as when they're stock. In other words, that a stock "1" isn't the same as a full custom suspension "1". Spring rates become twice as hard when fitting them, so similar changes might also occur to damper settings. But we have no way to know since the telemetry is very lacking and user tweakable suspension settings make use of too much obfuscation and oversimplification (what about positive camber found in some cars in RL? There's nothing like that in GT5. Or cars with no anti-roll bars on one or both axles? Why does camber visually changes with suspension travel on cars with live axle suspensions? And the list could go on...).

They really need to remake the suspension set-up system from scratch, up to at least current PC-sim standards.
Click to expand...

If you look at the default values on Nissan R35 GTR, would you believe the wheel alignment values ( camber and toe ) reflected the handling when driven in game and when compared to the real life settings ? I think PD just use the same value for toe on most cars since they didn't care as it's unchangeable by player ( default values ) and we can't assume those default numbers to be always correct ( spring, damper, arb etc ). Correct meaning the values that actually used in the physics and car attributes. I'd like PD to use real life values measurement for alignment, spring, damper and arb.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
Yes, because they are mechanically the same car, meaning same suspension geometry, weight distribution, wheelbase, etc.
If the differences in handling in GT5 are due to some hidden "magic values" outside of spring rate, suspension or wheel alignment settings, that would not be a very good thing physics-wise.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from. What I think is this: PD did include the differences in suspension settings according to the real life differences between the say Toyota 86 and the BR-Z, BUT they 'hide' it. There could be some reasons a company like Subaru doesn't want the cars settings to be exposed yet, like idk fear the competition gets an idea or prevent aftermarket tuner's to get an idea of what STi has done.

But tbh, I don't even believe that the stock settings of any car in GT5 would really match real life, I believe I've seen many threads where people researched those things here on GTP. And that is why I asked myself if it matters.

The fact that every single (edit: Streetcar) car has a rear toe ancle of 0.20 alone tells me that stock settings are nothing to go by.
 
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Robin.
Why am I not surprised! I'm sure they will sort it in a patch though.

I also wish PD would stop giving us cars that are basically already in the game and more GTR's :ouch:
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The next GT-R i wanna see in game is the Juke GT-R noting more :)
 
Flaco13
I understand where you are coming from. What I think is this: PD did include the differences in suspension settings according to the real life differences between the say Toyota 86 and the BR-Z, BUT they 'hide' it. There could be some reasons a company like Subaru doesn't want the cars settings to be exposed yet, like idk fear the competition gets an idea or prevent aftermarket tuner's to get an idea of what STi has done.

But tbh, I don't even believe that the stock settings of any car in GT5 would really match real life, I believe I've seen many threads where people researched those things here on GTP. And that is why I asked myself if it matters.

The fact that every single (edit: Streetcar) car has a rear toe ancle of 0.20 alone tells me that stock settings are nothing to go by.
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Yes it is a very well kept secret wat the spring-rates are for the brz...
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10416

Or the alignment setup from factory:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79187

And since the aftermarket for coilovers and springs are already flooded for this car, it would be quite naive to think that subaru is afraid of aftermarket tuners to look in gt5 to create the products... but I guess that part was a joke right?
 
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The BRZ does have different a different exhaust from the 86. I presume this is why it sounds different from the 86 and FR-S. In my opinion it drives differently and sounds better on my 5.1 sound system. 79 pence well spent. The racing group I am a member of are doing a no tuning race shortly.

I love the weider but it is a shame the numpties forgot to add the cockpit rear view.

Just wish there was a pack of 20 cars and 2 tracks every 2 months. I'd gladly hand over my cash even if there are a few faults here or there.
 
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