PD-GT6 Could learn from Codemasters

[TheCrazySwede]

If you go to Grid2 forums, they all complain the game is a failure.

If you go to Forza forums, they all complain the game is a failure.

If you go to GT6 forums, they all complain the game is a failure.

I believe the problem isn't the game, but the gamer's false sense of entitlement to a game. You play the game because somebody, who spent hours of work force and investments in creating a game according to their ideals, made it available to you. Most creators feel that they want to create a perfect game, but in reality achieving this is probably impossible. As such, bugs and inaccuracies have always been a part of a digital game. It is the courtacy of the creator to fix these issues one problem at a time. Along this path new problems may arise. In what false world do people live that they should feel entitled for a game to cater to their needs? Problems will be fixed when they have the solution for it. Fixes do not earn the creator any money, since the game has already been bought by the target. Creators take pride in things they do themselves. Comparisons along the line "they do it, why not you" falter exactly at this point. They want to get their own method working and improve it.

I'm not denying that GT6 has some flaws, but the game is still excellent compared to its predecessors. All the improvements that came in GT6 never get any attention, only things that don't appease the royal highness of game entitlement. There is a ton of things that I would like to see fixed in GT6, and I will patiently wait for the fixes to come. If I happen to stumble across new bugs, flaming about it with rhetorical nonsense wont fix it. Making the Creator aware that there is something amiss in the current content of the game through a constructive indication of the issue will make it simpler for the programmers to identify the source.

Whining about "I want this in my game, it's not there, so you suck!" drowns the actual issues at hand. PD said that they want to implement certain features within the lifespan of the game. PD is still very inexperienced with the creation of online capable games. As such they take longer to adapt to the demands within the code. I'm sick and tired of the immature gaming community constantly demanding things. So what if they said they will have updates until date x. It will be made available when its ready, and free of charge. Development is not cheap.

The grass is always greener on the other side, as they say

 

[starknight97]

No they would 'learn more' from kunos once they have finished Assetto Corsa. gt6 is better than F1 2013

 

[Flaren89]

PD can't release a track for GT6 in the ETA they gave, today Simraceway (PC game) got a huge update for Sonoma: Improved textures, corrected track and added lot of layouts, it now have 17 different layouts between drag strip, main track and support tracks. And for Friday, it will also have 7-11 layouts in the revamped kart track... Meh...

 

[Dusty1990]

That's it I'm going back to Mario Kart !

Play mario kart? doesn't turning SRF on do the same thing?

Yea, heard that somewhere from someone on here, the amount of diarrhea posted on these boards is off the scale.

 

[Darren.]

While I agree that PD could learn a lot from Codemasters, I would like to draw your attention to the developers of GTA Online- Rockstar North.

Before you go on and say that you can't compare GTA to Gran Turismo, look at it in terms of consumer communication. So far, Rockstar are being very pro-consumer in what they do, such as announcing game updates a week or two prior to release, fixing game bugs and exploits as soon as they are discovered and offering a dedicated support page for all their games (which I may add are constantly updated- example). PD does not do much of this, they seem to maintain a complete radio silence on the people who matter- the fan-base. When they do listen to us, they are very vague about what they have done- take two patch notes for example:

GTA Online 1.11 Changelog

GT6 1.04 Changelog

Yep, there's a clear difference. If PD could have Rockstar's style of communication, we as a community would be happier as we would know what is coming up, what the developers are working on and what exactly has been changed when an update is released. So far in GT we do not get this. Instead, we as a community are forced to find out for ourselves what has been changed, and are also left to guess what the developers are up to. As far as we are aware, GT6 is dead (although unlikely- we haven't heard anything from PD).

 

[BK711]

Geezzz these fan boys. I think a few of you would jump off a bridge if PD told you to. All I'm stating in the OP is that GT6 has A LOT of room for improvement. I won't go on about the bugs and missing features, but I find it stupid that they spent so much time mapping the stars. I mean who in the world cares if the Big Dipper is in the accurate spot while blazing around in the wet with slicks. This isn't intended to be another complaint thread, just pointing out some features that PD should take notice of. To me, GT6 has been a huge let down.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Nah. PD shouldn't learn from a company that used to make sim games, but left that market and started making arcade racing games. They now suck nowadays.

Can we have a simulation game that's structured like one of these "arcade" games?

Wah I wanna run my own team etc. etc.

Codies games are fantastic but I can see why people don't like them.

 

[BK711]

Can we have a simulation game that's structured like one of these "arcade" games?

Wah I wanna run my own team etc. etc.

Codies games are fantastic but I can see why people don't like them.

Talking Grid 2's single player game structure not its physics. I don't want to run my own team, but I'd like the AI to be something more than obstacles. You all know what GT6 is missing and that it's fallen short.

 

[BK711]

Does anyone else wish GT6 was a racing game and would like to see them get rid of some of the crap cars. Other than the initial laugh, a pt cruiser and a Honda van have no place in GT.

 

[ildd]

Does anyone else wish GT6 was a racing game and would like to see them get rid of some of the crap cars. Other than the initial laugh, a pt cruiser and a Honda van have no place in GT.

How dare you say the Honda Odyssey doesn't belong, that's my favorite drift vehicle.

 

[ukfan758]

Yeah, let's knock that off.

If you're tired of reading negative statements - regardless of how plentiful - don't come into the thread that has a critical overtone. It's really that simple, or at least you would think so.

It continually baffles me how people (no one in particular) who are of this mindset go out of their way to enter threads and comment on it. It makes you look worse than the ones you're being - get this - critical of.

It's just about as ironic as can be.

 

[PepeMickey]

They could learn the career estructure for example, the menu design on their games is also top notch.

 

[mister dog]

On topic, PD could learn alot from other developers. It's strange in I get the sense they're actively trying not to copy features that have worked well in other games. T10 will copy anything anyone else does and put it in their game. Sometimes that's good (rivals mode copied from EA's autolog) sometimes that's bad (auto-brake copied from Grid).

This 👍
I actually wrote something similar in another thread just know, without knowing you wrote the same train of thought in this one : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...icted-driving-experience.304587/#post-9422098

 

[Imari]

Developer Diaries.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Can we have a simulation game that's structured like one of these "arcade" games?

Wah I wanna run my own team etc. etc.

Codies games are fantastic but I can see why people don't like them.

Ahh yes, I want to make my own team too. Well, a club actually. Haha.

Does anyone else wish GT6 was a racing game and would like to see them get rid of some of the crap cars. Other than the initial laugh, a pt cruiser and a Honda van have no place in GT.

Not sure about that bud. How PD actually make them premium instead of ditching them, yeah?

 

[Universal-Shot]

If you go to Grid2 forums, they all complain the game is a failure.

If you go to Forza forums, they all complain the game is a failure.

If you go to GT6 forums, they all complain the game is a failure.

I believe the problem isn't the game, but the gamer's false sense of entitlement to a game. You play the game because somebody, who spent hours of work force and investments in creating a game according to their ideals, made it available to you. Most creators feel that they want to create a perfect game, but in reality achieving this is probably impossible. As such, bugs and inaccuracies have always been a part of a digital game. It is the courtacy of the creator to fix these issues one problem at a time. Along this path new problems may arise. In what false world do people live that they should feel entitled for a game to cater to their needs? Problems will be fixed when they have the solution for it. Fixes do not earn the creator any money, since the game has already been bought by the target. Creators take pride in things they do themselves. Comparisons along the line "they do it, why not you" falter exactly at this point. They want to get their own method working and improve it.

I'm not denying that GT6 has some flaws, but the game is still excellent compared to its predecessors. All the improvements that came in GT6 never get any attention, only things that don't appease the royal highness of game entitlement. There is a ton of things that I would like to see fixed in GT6, and I will patiently wait for the fixes to come. If I happen to stumble across new bugs, flaming about it with rhetorical nonsense wont fix it. Making the Creator aware that there is something amiss in the current content of the game through a constructive indication of the issue will make it simpler for the programmers to identify the source.

Whining about "I want this in my game, it's not there, so you suck!" drowns the actual issues at hand. PD said that they want to implement certain features within the lifespan of the game. PD is still very inexperienced with the creation of online capable games. As such they take longer to adapt to the demands within the code. I'm sick and tired of the immature gaming community constantly demanding things. So what if they said they will have updates until date x. It will be made available when its ready, and free of charge. Development is not cheap.

This maybe true for some people and young people especially. But I can see where people are coming from with Forza. It used to be a GT competitor and quite serious and its gradually become the next NFS shift.

The career in Gran Turismo 6 is very short and there are very few new cars or entire improvements or innovations. The best addition to GT6 is Goodwood and that to me feels like the only complete content. Licenses and almost all races are shortened, and theres very few new team liveries or type cars to suit the racing that GT focuses on. A Touring car race is now even more outdated with 3 of the same car on the track and all from different era's.

I dont really think the entitlement argument comes into it personally, unless your moaning about little things or expect the unexpected. Of course there are certain expectations. Im not as satisfied with GT6 as previous games not entirely because theres less content but the races already included are shortened and are all very similar. I see very few improvements over GT5, Ive played since GT1 and still own all the games. I take the GT for what it is, if its a good game great, if its interesting great, if it doesnt keep me interested as much as the last game, thats not good. And the reasons are I think obvious enough. Slightly better graphics, a few more new cars and new suspension dont make GT6 a better game than GT5 for me. What matters to me is immersion, collecting cars, atmosphere and realistic competitions and a good sountrack exactly like all the previous full GT titles have had.

Also because they did release in on PS3 earlier than it has taken to complete the game there is missing content. The PS4 is 3 months in now and it does seem like a mistake or that the next gen were pushed for earlier releases. Yes the missing content is a problem! Obviously, if they had waited until the game was finished to release which presumably would be even after the current date, the game would have even less interest, and would be even more of an obvious disaster release.

I could never be persuaded that GT6 is a better game than any previous GT. I gave it as much time as I do any game and it was over in no time and Ive still never 100% any other GT. GT6 Im sure does just feel like Vita/ PSP GT or a massive GT5 DLC. And thats just looking at it in plain comparison with GT5 which is the game it can be fairly entirely compared with.

In answer to the topic, yeah the ultimate racing game could be made if PD and Codemasters combined efforts.

 

[HuskyGT]

Not true. GT hasn't followed the same formula since game 1. If it did, GT6 would be great.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

I would actually prefer that other developers learn everything from PD.

PD can implement plethora of elements of other games in GT, but I am not sure how many - if any - developer can pull off what PD achieved with Gran Turismo.

Care to explain more?

 

[ShiftingGears]

Nah. PD shouldn't learn from a company that used to make sim games, but left that market and started making arcade racing games. They now suck nowadays.

Yes, I was a bit disappointed when I found Grid 2 to be quite arcade. That said I think it's quite good at what it does, and there are features that PD could easily use while maintaining a more simulation-oriented game.

That said, here's one Codemasters game PD could learn a lot from with regards to rallying:

 

[TokoTurismo]

Yes, I was a bit disappointed when I found Grid 2 to be quite arcade. That said I think it's quite good at what it does, and there are features that PD could easily use while maintaining a more simulation-oriented game.

That said, here's one Codemasters game PD could learn a lot from with regards to rallying:

This. I've always adored the Colin McRae Rally games and its rally based gameplay. GT's rally made seriously need a major update, so this one is perfect. 👍

 

[Earth]

I believe the problem isn't the game, but the gamer's false sense of entitlement to a game. You play the game because somebody, who spent hours of work force and investments in creating a game according to their ideals, made it available to you. Most creators feel that they want to create a perfect game, but in reality achieving this is probably impossible.

Thats kind of old school and doesnt really work anymore. Now you have twitter, myspace, forums etc where people can talk about things and get heard, so they're not too happy when it appears the developer isnt listening to well documented and legit complaints.

 

[Third Reign]

Thats kind of old school and doesnt really work anymore. Now you have twitter, myspace, forums etc where people can talk about things and get heard, so they're not too happy when it appears the developer isnt listening to well documented and legit complaints.

What we are forgetting is that PD is a Japanese company, their work ethics are completely different from a western company. They have a different sense motivation an values. Just because you can globally voice your opinion does not change the fact that a culturally different listener might pick it up different than intended. Should it make the writer feel any entitlement to 1) get an answer and 2) expect the complaint to implemented just because the whole world can now see and "like" it? I too would like for PD to have the community interaction on a scale like Blizzard did/does for World of Warcraft. They share every little change to the game with the community and respond to feedback. Looking how WoW evolved into a homologated mess when I quit years ago makes me think that too much community input can mess up the original vision of the creator and water it down. But it is still the Western vs Eastern culture factor that many do not understand and worse, fail to recognize. A Japanese company functions different from our ideals and we have to respect that.

Kaz has his vision of the game, I think he does a very fine job trying to implement it and constantly improve upon it. There are flaws in the game, and as I mentioned before I am sure that the team at PD is working hard to fix issues and improve the game. Apparently to most the pace of improvement is too slow...Never forget you bought a fully functional game and the creator gives you the service of him improving it along the way out of pure good will.

I fail to see any justification of demands to a game creator to implement things. It is that attitude that frustrates me most. I can get behind suggestions on improvements and I enjoy seeing ideas others come up with, the important thing is that the tone sets the music.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Kaz has his vision of the game, I think he does a very fine job trying to implement it and constantly improve upon it. There are flaws in the game, and as I mentioned before I am sure that the team at PD is working hard to fix issues and improve the game.

What exactly is this vision? You, and others of course, are always talking about Kaz's "Vision". What is it? Can you define it? Can you tell us how GT6 lives up to that vision, where it succeeds and where it fails? Maybe if we are enlightened as to this "vision" the game might make more sense.

I fail to see any justification of demands to a game creator to implement things. It is that attitude that frustrates me most. I can get behind suggestions on improvements and I enjoy seeing ideas others come up with, the important thing is that the tone sets the music.

Fine, but what about stuff we were promised and is not yet delivered [insert well documented list here]? What about stuff that isn't working[insert well documented list here]? What about the monthly track DLC? And if the answer is, "they're working on it", how long does a reasonable person wait before giving up?

 

[Third Reign]

What exactly is this vision? You, and others of course, are always talking about Kaz's "Vision". What is it? Can you define it? Can you tell us how GT6 lives up to that vision, where it succeeds and where it fails? Maybe if we are enlightened as to this "vision" the game might make more sense

I believe you put too much focus on what the vision actually is, the important part is that the game is shaped after how Kaz wants the game to be (read his vision), not how some people on a forum want it to be. I enjoy the game for what it is regardless of how much it matches what Kaz thinks is perfect. Me knowing what Kaz's vision is does not change the game. But the obvious answer is "GT6 reflects Kaz's current vision of how he wants a driving simulation to be". Simplified in my own words I would say a game where a large selection of cars can be experienced on a variety of real world and fictional locations, suitable for a broad audience of gamers.

Fine, but what about stuff we were promised and is not yet delivered [insert well documented list here]? What about stuff that isn't working[insert well documented list here]?

You want the bugs fixed, them to release all the promised content, make new tracks, and all best due yesterday...The game is 3 months old, we've had plenty of updates and 9 cars added. Assuming that they got no work done over Christmas season until new years, that's still plenty of progress for the time the game's been active in my opinion. And best part is we know more is coming.

What about the monthly track DLC? And if the answer is, "they're working on it", how long does a reasonable person wait before giving up?

Monthly DLC is a promise they can never hold to begin with, it is silly to think otherwise. I have no information on how strong the workforce at PD is, but modeling a track certainly would take longer than a month. I can imagine there are many troubles that can occur on content, for example think of the legal issues that can occur because of the GPS tracker feature that PD wants to implement. They might have invested lots of development time in it only to get a nutcase lawyer to stop the efforts full force shortly before release (pure speculation on my part, but feasible). All lost time for other efforts...

Why is there a "reasonable waiting period" at all? You paid for use of the software included on the Bluray disc/digital DL. Nowhere in that purchase is a clause that forces PD to add content or provide things that they said "we wanted to include". Anything they add to the game free is a nice bonus. Would I enjoy the game more if the community feature went live, the 7-post rig lets me play with settings, I can create my own tracks, see how the BRZ outside my garage stacks up on the Nürburgring to its digital counterpart, and races have a fixed pit stop system? You bet! But I can still appreciate the game for what it is now and will thankfully take anything that comes along. Not holding up to promises might be a poor business model, but that is a different point.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Monthly DLC is a promise they can never hold to begin with, it is silly to think otherwise.

Then you have to agree that they lied to us.

I have no information on how strong the workforce at PD is, but modeling a track certainly would take longer than a month.

Fair enough. But, again, they are the ones who said that we'll get a monthly DLC track. If they can't hold their marketing promises, then why do they do it in the first place?

 

[f40]

Does anyone else wish GT6 was a racing game and would like to see them get rid of some of the crap cars. Other than the initial laugh, a pt cruiser and a Honda van have no place in GT.

No they should keep them. Apart from the silliness of having 3 of every MX5 and 2 of every Daihattsu Sirion.

 

[RACECAR]

Let me get this straight: You honestly think PD should learn from a Developer who has gotten massive hate the past few years, mishandled their game release in one region last year and then mysteriously shut down their forum where said complaints were being made?

It sounds more like you want them to learn to be even worse.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Let me get this straight: You honestly think PD should learn from a Developer who has gotten massive hate the past few years, mishandled their game release in one region last year and then mysteriously shut down their forum where said complaints were being made?

It sounds more like you want them to learn to be even worse.

HOLY! I never knew about that. Wow. O_O

 

[RACECAR]

Yep. People have for the most part accused Codemasters of essentially making the same game with minor changes (F1 series) and last year, they wait until the day of release for the game to cancel the release of the physical copies of F1 2013. after two months of being up and having all the complaints, the forums were suddenly "offline".

Not exactly a company I would want any aspiring game developer to take lessons from right now, other then what not to do.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Yep. People have for the most part accused Codemasters of essentially making the same game with minor changes (F1 series) and last year, they wait until the day of release for the game to cancel the release of the physical copies of F1 2013. after two months of being up and having all the complaints, the forums were suddenly "offline".

Not exactly a company I would want any aspiring game developer to take lessons from right now, other then what not to do.

Ahh I see. Wow Codemasters are something else. I knew I couldn't trust them. Ugh, I feel bad for those fans.