PD should outsource car modelling

  • Thread starter Thread starter saviboy
  • 23 comments
  • 1,393 views
S

saviboy

Messages
72
They should outsource car modelling (and anything else they can) :

-so we can get all premium cars (the PS2 jaggy "standard" models has no place at all in an end of gen PS3 game)
-so we can get a GT game every two years. (seems like a reasonable/common gap)
-so we can get a GT game on PS4 and PS vita

Don't get me wrong , I love GT and have been a fan since GT1. But PD is clearly understaffed.
 
PD has about 140 employees, Turn 10 has has about 300ish employees, all this information comes from Google. Outsourcing becomes problematic, possible but issues can be foreseen.

Its like doing a group project, sometimes you get pissed at what your groupmates are doing because they aren't doing it your way, same with game companies.

If you outsource car modeling, maybe the companies they outsource won't do it the way PD likes it, plus it costs them more revenue. I completely agree in how we should get better quality graphics games and that.

Give PD some credit, a 140 employee company that can churn out such a high resolution and high quality looking game at times with all this content, compared to other companies.

The only thing I should think PD should outsource is maybe the audio department, but they say they are working on it, and the PS3 is already pushed to its processing max with GT6, so its a bit limited in all premium cars.

With the PS4 that might be possible, but PD have been known to be headstrong and stubborn in their vision so expect a release earliest by 2015, and outsourcing to be out the window.
 
They should out source everything except car modelling, track modeling, & physics modelling imho.
 
andy0a
PD has about 140 employees, Turn 10 has has about 300ish employees, all this information comes from Google. Outsourcing becomes problematic, possible but issues can be foreseen.

Its like doing a group project, sometimes you get pissed at what your groupmates are doing because they aren't doing it your way, same with game companies.

If you outsource car modeling, maybe the companies they outsource won't do it the way PD likes it, plus it costs them more revenue. I completely agree in how we should get better quality graphics games and that.

Give PD some credit, a 140 employee company that can churn out such a high resolution and high quality looking game at times with all this content, compared to other companies.

The only thing I should think PD should outsource is maybe the audio department, but they say they are working on it, and the PS3 is already pushed to its processing max with GT6, so its a bit limited in all premium cars.

With the PS4 that might be possible, but PD have been known to be headstrong and stubborn in their vision so expect a release earliest by 2015, and outsourcing to be out the window.
Click to expand...

I give them credit for that but I don't give them credit for not being able to release enough games the public demands. I wanted GT6 last year, a GT on Vita would have been nice as well and something coming up soon on PS4 would have helped sell even more systems.
if they don't want to outsource, they should grow the company.

It seems that even Sony realizes that PD doesn't produce games fast enough according to market demand.Consequently, they asked Evolution to produce a racing game for the PS4.I think PD is pretty lucky that Driveclub doesn't seem to be real competition for GT but it could have (or it might be one day).
 
Last edited:
I'm no corporate guy, I'm not good with business management aspects, (finance major lol) so I can't really comment on growing a company or not. PD wants things a certain way, so they demand a certain caliber from people I'm assuming is why they haven't grown their company. Think of it as being a wimpy guy trying to hang out with a group of jocks, they demand a certain caliber from you.

I do agree that GT6 should've been a last year release, but they did hold us on GT5 with a couple of updates and such. Its a company that has one of the longer longevities in terms of content offered and their relationship to its consumer base. They keep on giving us stuff to appeal us.

In terms of public demand, I don't know about that, of course, sell your stocks now when demand for it is crazy, but its a low priced stock as of then. GT6 if it was released a year earlier, I think it would've been a badly unpolished and even more unrefined game, so PD was withholding it for quality control and content, but they couldn't hold it anymore, so they released it and planned to fill in the gaps later on.
 
saviboy
They should outsource car modelling (and anything else they can) :

-so we can get all premium cars (the PS2 jaggy "standard" models has no place at all in an end of gen PS3 game)
-so we can get a GT game every two years. (seems like a reasonable/common gap)
-so we can get a GT game on PS4 and PS vita

Don't get me wrong , I love GT and have been a fan since GT1. But PD is clearly understaffed.
Click to expand...

Something should be done..
Exhibit A:
image.jpg
 
Nah I just don't see it happening, and I don't want it to happen. PD has it's own, sometimes headstrong way of doing things, but I feel it adds it own character to the game. Something which most games lack.

Many issues with outsourcing. Increased cost in addition to 140 employees, quality may not be up to PD's high standards (can be fixed but takes additional time), keeping their game code a trade secret, pride in doing everything in house, etc. etc.

Now if PD do hire 160 more employees to match Turn 10, do you think that increased cost will be offset by increased revenue? I'm betting your ass not. Most of the stuff people complain about here doesn't matter to the casual masses, who make up most of the sales. Remember PD is a business, and if PD goes out of business there's going to be no GT, which will make me very sad.

I also have a strong suspicion that Microsoft is subsidizing Turn 10 significantly more than Sony. Sales numbers are nowhere close to GT (DLC sales are definitely more, but I'm guessing a drop in the ocean), and if I were running a company I would take 140 employees with a truckload of sales over Turn 10's situation any day. The fact is Microsoft is making a ton of $$$$$, whereas Sony as a whole company isn't doing so well (though I think the entertainment division is doing OK). So they can afford to keep supporting Turn 10 through periods of losses a lot more than Sony can support PD.

Kaz has said sounds will be fixed in a later update. I prefer 400 premiums and 800 standards to 200-300 premiums (not sure on Forza's car numbers). Prefer more tracks. Like the fact that PD continue to support and develop the game further for free. I like the fact that PD seems to be on amazing terms with car manufacturers (which bodes well for GT 7,8,9....). And the new physics :drool:.
 
mohitraina91
Nah I just don't see it happening, and I don't want it to happen. PD has it's own, sometimes headstrong way of doing things, but I feel it adds it own character to the game. Something which most games lack.

Many issues with outsourcing. Increased cost in addition to 140 employees, quality may not be up to PD's high standards (can be fixed but takes additional time), keeping their game code a trade secret, pride in doing everything in house, etc. etc.

Now if PD do hire 160 more employees to match Turn 10, do you think that increased cost will be offset by increased revenue? I'm betting your ass not. Most of the stuff people complain about here doesn't matter to the casual masses, who make up most of the sales. Remember PD is a business, and if PD goes out of business there's going to be no GT, which will make me very sad.

I also have a strong suspicion that Microsoft is subsidizing Turn 10 significantly more than Sony. Sales numbers are nowhere close to GT (DLC sales are definitely more, but I'm guessing a drop in the ocean), and if I were running a company I would take 140 employees with a truckload of sales over Turn 10's situation any day. The fact is Microsoft is making a ton of $$$$$, whereas Sony as a whole company isn't doing so well (though I think the entertainment division is doing OK). So they can afford to keep supporting Turn 10 through periods of losses a lot more than Sony can support PD.

Kaz has said sounds will be fixed in a later update. I prefer 400 premiums and 800 standards to 200-300 premiums (not sure on Forza's car numbers). Prefer more tracks. Like the fact that PD continue to support and develop the game further for free. I like the fact that PD seems to be on amazing terms with car manufacturers (which bodes well for GT 7,8,9....). And the new physics :drool:.
Click to expand...

Yep, this game was like Minecraft and Asseto Corsa right now. You bought the game, you could play it, but its not finished, when the game was finished or more updates were added to it, its completely free. Now I'm hoping that MT teach PD to stop forcing paid DLC, and give us more free cars like the M4 or Hudson as it would make its consumer base VERY HAPPY :) .

You sir have said what I have been saying to countless other people on terms of PD keeping a low employee count. They are those guys in the group who want to do everything in their image, and if you do it your way, they'll kick you out. And I respect PD for that, no compromise, maybe some sound compromise lol, but generally they have no compromise for their vision of a game, but its a good vision so I don't mind.
 
andy0a
I'm no corporate guy, I'm not good with business management aspects, (finance major lol) so I can't really comment on growing a company or not. PD wants things a certain way, so they demand a certain caliber from people I'm assuming is why they haven't grown their company. Think of it as being a wimpy guy trying to hang out with a group of jocks, they demand a certain caliber from you.

I do agree that GT6 should've been a last year release, but they did hold us on GT5 with a couple of updates and such. Its a company that has one of the longer longevities in terms of content offered and their relationship to its consumer base. They keep on giving us stuff to appeal us.

In terms of public demand, I don't know about that, of course, sell your stocks now when demand for it is crazy, but its a low priced stock as of then. GT6 if it was released a year earlier, I think it would've been a badly unpolished and even more unrefined game, so PD was withholding it for quality control and content, but they couldn't hold it anymore, so they released it and planned to fill in the gaps later on.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, they should not have released it a year earlier if it meant releasing a substandard product. My point is that they should put themselves in a position where they can release a product on each console they support every other year. Other companies do it with success, no reason why they shouldn't be able to do it. Whether it means outsourcing, or growing, they must do what it takes to get quality games out quicker.
 
Outsourcing 3D models can potentially be worse than PD leaving the "Standards" in the game. Plus, it wouldn't save much time because PD would still have to double check those models to make sure they're up to their level of quality and apply them to the game.

Outsource sounds, outsource data acquisition. Leave the modelling work in-house.
 
mohitraina91
Nah I just don't see it happening, and I don't want it to happen. PD has it's own, sometimes headstrong way of doing things, but I feel it adds it own character to the game. Something which most games lack.

Many issues with outsourcing. Increased cost in addition to 140 employees, quality may not be up to PD's high standards (can be fixed but takes additional time), keeping their game code a trade secret, pride in doing everything in house, etc. etc.

Now if PD do hire 160 more employees to match Turn 10, do you think that increased cost will be offset by increased revenue? I'm betting your ass not. Most of the stuff people complain about here doesn't matter to the casual masses, who make up most of the sales. Remember PD is a business, and if PD goes out of business there's going to be no GT, which will make me very sad.

I also have a strong suspicion that Microsoft is subsidizing Turn 10 significantly more than Sony. Sales numbers are nowhere close to GT (DLC sales are definitely more, but I'm guessing a drop in the ocean), and if I were running a company I would take 140 employees with a truckload of sales over Turn 10's situation any day. The fact is Microsoft is making a ton of $$$$$, whereas Sony as a whole company isn't doing so well (though I think the entertainment division is doing OK). So they can afford to keep supporting Turn 10 through periods of losses a lot more than Sony can support PD.

Kaz has said sounds will be fixed in a later update. I prefer 400 premiums and 800 standards to 200-300 premiums (not sure on Forza's car numbers). Prefer more tracks. Like the fact that PD continue to support and develop the game further for free. I like the fact that PD seems to be on amazing terms with car manufacturers (which bodes well for GT 7,8,9....). And the new physics :drool:.
Click to expand...

Ubi Soft has several hundreds of employees (thousands?) working on each game they produce, and they are a very profitable company. GT5 was one of the best selling game of the PS3, I am pretty sure PD would have had no issue making a massive profit even with double the employees they have now. And the idea is to release more games and hence generate more revenue.
Sony also seems to have an issue with the frequency at which PD releases their game.
This is most certainly why they asked Evolution to do a racing game. Though I am not holding my breath about this one, I think it really shows that Sony realizes that they can't afford to not have a semi-serious racing game outside of the need for speed craps. And Pd is the loser in this story. Yes, they would have higher expenses if they had more staff but they would also make more money by releasing a game the same day the PS4 released. Let's face it, unless Drive Club was a complete failure, most of us would have bought it for the Ps4. And that could have been a GT game.
 
GTPorsche
Outsourcing 3D models can potentially be worse than PD leaving the "Standards" in the game. Plus, it wouldn't save much time because PD would still have to double check those models to make sure they're up to their level of quality and apply them to the game.

Outsource sounds, outsource data acquisition. Leave the modelling work in-house.
Click to expand...

That remains to be proven but even if you were right, my point is that PD is not working fast enough. From a gamer's stand point and from a business stand point.
If outsourcing car modelling is not be the best solution then they should outsource something else. or simply grow like any other successful business would. It's not like they would be the only game company to have done it before.
 
Last edited:
bodger
So PD, by popular demand, removed the "standard car in photomode" restriction, and this is how you repay them. Cha!

:)
Click to expand...
Nope.. I pay ca$h like all others.
Personally I'd rather have the feature revert to before, if this image is the result. Which it is..
:banghead:
 
Car modeling? The list is crazy when it comes to PD to catch up to the competition.

-Car Modeling
-Car Selection (quality vs. quantity, sure PD has a lot of cars, but they're missing many important cars, E30 anyone?)
-Car Customization (the sheer lack of aero parts, especially on "standards" is saddening)
-Car Tuning (no engine or drive train swaps? this is 2013 PD common...)
-AI Behavior
-Livery Editor
-Sound Effects (not just engine noise, tire screech is awful as well)
-Special Effects (I'm not talking explosions, I mean dust, smoke, particles, sparks, rain, the distinct lack of any feeling of speed)
-Damage Modeling
-Online Features

And thats just what I can think of off the top of my head that everyone else does much better, hell GTA 5 has GT6 beat out in over half of those, and it's not really a driving sim now is it?
 
P_Lav
Car modeling? The list is crazy when it comes to PD to catch up to the competition.

-Car Modeling
-Car Selection (quality vs. quantity, sure PD has a lot of cars, but they're missing many important cars, E30 anyone?)
-Car Customization (the sheer lack of aero parts, especially on "standards" is saddening)
-Car Tuning (no engine or drive train swaps? this is 2013 PD common...)
-AI Behavior
-Livery Editor
-Sound Effects (not just engine noise, tire screech is awful as well)
-Special Effects (I'm not talking explosions, I mean dust, smoke, particles, sparks, rain, the distinct lack of any feeling of speed)
-Damage Modeling
-Online Features

And thats just what I can think of off the top of my head that everyone else does much better, hell GTA 5 has GT6 beat out in over half of those, and it's not really a driving sim now is it?
Click to expand...
 
That's a lot of request and I can understand how PD might have chosen to overlook some of them. But I agree with you on the choice of cars. I think that some cars are really missing. It' s pretty unacceptable to not be able to drive a Ferrari F12 or FF for example. in a game released at the end of 2013.
 
P_Lav
Car modeling? The list is crazy when it comes to PD to catch up to the competition.

-Car Modeling
-Car Selection (quality vs. quantity, sure PD has a lot of cars, but they're missing many important cars, E30 anyone?)
-Car Customization (the sheer lack of aero parts, especially on "standards" is saddening)
-Car Tuning (no engine or drive train swaps? this is 2013 PD common...)
-AI Behavior
-Livery Editor
-Sound Effects (not just engine noise, tire screech is awful as well)
-Special Effects (I'm not talking explosions, I mean dust, smoke, particles, sparks, rain, the distinct lack of any feeling of speed)
-Damage Modeling
-Online Features

And thats just what I can think of off the top of my head that everyone else does much better, hell GTA 5 has GT6 beat out in over half of those, and it's not really a driving sim now is it?
Click to expand...

GTA V sounded amazing with the engine noises, I recall telling a buddy online who also had GT5 that GTA 5 had better sounding Ferrari's then GT.

Selection, I think they don't have to tone down the cars, maybe add more. I think the coolest aspect would be to do sort of like a fan month, where fans vote on a car that hasn't been included, the top voted car gets licensed and modeled and premiumized, I mean they did a Hudson Hornet in a month, so they could do it like that. Everyones been complaining about no E30, so vote, E30 wins, PD gets the rights to it, model it boom, and they could do it each month to appease fans, but they don't.

Customization was already reviewed, it'll take PD and Kaz a while to budge, he specifically said in interviews how he wanted to keep the integrity and the racing feel of it and shy away from street culture, which is dumb because street racing/tuner culture is a huge part of Japanese culture and now global culture.

Engine swaps, lol that could be done, it'd be complicated with the amount of cars and coding, but if they make it a premium only, that could be possible. H22 swaps into civics all days lol

Livery is sort of like everyone's going to draw phallus's on their cars lol. It'd be nice to give certain base designs though

Sound should be improved, the special effects with the new blur was cool, but they removed it in 1.02 for god knows why.

Damage is horrid, and online features have not been fully implicated yet, we have yet to see course editor, and the community function, so give that one time. Most of your other points I agree with.
 
andy0a
GTA V sounded amazing with the engine noises, I recall telling a buddy online who also had GT5 that GTA 5 had better sounding Ferrari's then GT.

Selection, I think they don't have to tone down the cars, maybe add more. I think the coolest aspect would be to do sort of like a fan month, where fans vote on a car that hasn't been included, the top voted car gets licensed and modeled and premiumized, I mean they did a Hudson Hornet in a month, so they could do it like that. Everyones been complaining about no E30, so vote, E30 wins, PD gets the rights to it, model it boom, and they could do it each month to appease fans, but they don't.

Customization was already reviewed, it'll take PD and Kaz a while to budge, he specifically said in interviews how he wanted to keep the integrity and the racing feel of it and shy away from street culture, which is dumb because street racing/tuner culture is a huge part of Japanese culture and now global culture.

Engine swaps, lol that could be done, it'd be complicated with the amount of cars and coding, but if they make it a premium only, that could be possible. H22 swaps into civics all days lol

Livery is sort of like everyone's going to draw phallus's on their cars lol. It'd be nice to give certain base designs though

Sound should be improved, the special effects with the new blur was cool, but they removed it in 1.02 for god knows why.

Damage is horrid, and online features have not been fully implicated yet, we have yet to see course editor, and the community function, so give that one time. Most of your other points I agree with.
Click to expand...

I like that idea. Except all the kids will be "I WANT MORE LAMBOOOS N FERARRRISIS N JET CARZ OMGOZOLOLZ" and that sucks. Plus the whole Vision GT thing? Who the hell made the final decision on that? Does anybody here actually want a bunch of fantasy cars that will never reach production? PD is misguided at best in that department.

That statement by PD is absurd. They did Racing Mods, and look at all the aero on the FRS, or the G37 Street Version, or the D1 cars? They're obviously not opposed to it, they just don't have the man power and are too misguided to have CONSISTENCY in the customization department, I don't want ridiculous bodykits for popular cars, I want simple functional lips/splitters/canards/diffusers for ALL cars.

Engine swaps would not be difficult, hybriding has taught us this, they just need to implement a interface that allows us to change over the engines, heck even one option per car would be fantastic.

Liverys can be whatever a person wants it to be, some people want dicks on their cars, others want replicas of real race cars, I'm the latter, but thats why you incorporate a report feature, and bans for those who breach policy.
 
The car damage mode is straight out of GT4. Hopefully they retained the damage mode where pieces of the bumper/finder hang off and drag the ground. I even remember having a door fly off in GT5.

There are sound issues when contact no matter how slight is made with another car. Sometimes the sound will simply shutdown and leave you driving with no way to tell how your engine is doing other than other than instruments.
I know the rev meter is there, but I rely on sound, even when driving in real life.

The AI can be good, but it needs to involve more than three cars max. I understand it's cycle intensive, but maybe GT7 will fix that. I've not had any on-line racing experience with GT6. I look forward to seeing how this aspect of the game is going to be.

Still want more control over what parts/upgrades are allowed when allowing tuning of cars in on-line rooms.
Hopefully installing lip spoilers and rear end diffusers do not count as tuning unless those parts actually have an effect on handling and car control. Haven't tested that yet. Maybe tonight after football (American).

Forgive me for being off topic. Outsourcing IMO would not be something Kaz would not like. His cars are HIS cars.
He would not accept them being detailed by someone outside the PD family.

I have no idea if outsourcing could fix the Race Mods to where the weight reduction stages would show in the interior view each of the three stages.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yea get the audio outsourced. as for the cars, well I don't ever think I could do an endo flip uphill in a mito if PD didn't do it. So kudos to them bet they didn't even mean it lol
 

Latest Posts

Back