PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Groundfish]

So here is the race where I got reset, including some hurried narration from me. Apologies about the kids in the background. The other driver isnt to blame here, let me make sure I am clear about that now. We both made mistakes although I think they had a dirty move. But most of it was incidental.

However, the way the system runs at the moment I feel like I was handed a disproportionate punishment. Figured at the end I was going to be savaged to SR B at worst. Nope, it was a drop from 93 to 13 and SR D. They left that race with a blue S.

Somehow minor bumper taps are far more evil than punting someone off and ruining their race.

Well if nothing else, that proves by far the best strategy is stay clean, BUT if someone pisses you off enough that you decide you want to let them know how you feel then it’s best to go nuclear.
Ensure that you launch them into a reset while you yourself stay on track.
That’s my only real comment.
1st think is it worth it, if yes then strike once strike hard and end it.
Is it worth taking a penalty or sr down?
If it is do it right

 

[Kermit_2142]

So I’ve defended the recent update and I finally had a bad experience so thought it only fair to even out my argument.

I was AS just for ref.

So jumped into race B for a quick couple races before bed, it’s now 3 hours later

First race I very very gently touched the rear of the car ahead twice and recieved 2 SR downs, which is fair enough as a warning. Race went well, no penalties etc. Then I realised I lost 20sr - holy smokes that’s insane!!

No worries I’ll do a race C then call it a night. Race C is now filled with all sorts because I’m SR A now. Turn 1 skittled out of p3 with half a dozen others. Got stuck in the mid pack craziness and ended nurtral SR. Urgh. Not doing that again. Back to race B for a couple because I know I won’t get skittled at t1 and it’s a fun combo.

Race B only gives a max of 4Sr and even with all green if you corner cut you only gain 2SR. So 6 races later I’m back just into top split and have had some really fun and close races on the way even if the field has been split with A top half and D bottom half.

1 last race because I’m having fun and it’s now so late it doesn’t matter any more. Back in top split happy days, full AS lobby. Having a great 3 car battle and at the end of lap 2 the car behind misses his brake marker and does the right thing avoids us by miles and cuts the chicane so as not to hit us. I turn right and WHAM stop dead, wtf happened, then I see I’m inside his reset ghosted car. We continue he unghosts in front of me and I get a 3.5s penalty and end the race with -20SR and back to AA.

Fustrating as it is, it doesn’t matter to me any more as I don’t take fia serious and will grind race c next week to get back up to AS, but I can see why people are not playing/moaning here/running multiple accounts.

since the update this is my first “stupid” penalty and I’m still in favour of the system overall. However the Sr system is a bit OTT right now.

It’s not fair to penalise someone -10 per minor contact when you can only gain +4 per whole race A/B.
I would suggest that for an SR down with a penalty -10 is fair. For SR down with no penalty -2 or 3 would be fairer and more aching to a slap on the wrist an SR down should be.

Other than that, much clean racing to report and I have enjoyed my evening. (Also Race C sucks, wtf is with that tyre multiplier )

 

[Redneckchef]

So I’ve defended the recent update and I finally had a bad experience so thought it only fair to even out my argument.

I was AS just for ref.

So jumped into race B for a quick couple races before bed, it’s now 3 hours later

First race I very very gently touched the rear of the car ahead twice and recieved 2 SR downs, which is fair enough as a warning. Race went well, no penalties etc. Then I realised I lost 20sr - holy smokes that’s insane!!

No worries I’ll do a race C then call it a night. Race C is now filled with all sorts because I’m SR A now. Turn 1 skittled out of p3 with half a dozen others. Got stuck in the mid pack craziness and ended nurtral SR. Urgh. Not doing that again. Back to race B for a couple because I know I won’t get skittled at t1 and it’s a fun combo.

Race B only gives a max of 4Sr and even with all green if you corner cut you only gain 2SR. So 6 races later I’m back just into top split and have had some really fun and close races on the way even if the field has been split with A top half and D bottom half.

1 last race because I’m having fun and it’s now so late it doesn’t matter any more. Back in top split happy days, full AS lobby. Having a great 3 car battle and at the end of lap 2 the car behind misses his brake marker and does the right thing avoids us by miles and cuts the chicane so as not to hit us. I turn right and WHAM stop dead, wtf happened, then I see I’m inside his reset ghosted car. We continue he unghosts in front of me and I get a 3.5s penalty and end the race with -20SR and back to AA.

Fustrating as it is, it doesn’t matter to me any more as I don’t take fia serious and will grind race c next week to get back up to AS, but I can see why people are not playing/moaning here/running multiple accounts.

since the update this is my first “stupid” penalty and I’m still in favour of the system overall. However the Sr system is a bit OTT right now.

It’s not fair to penalise someone -10 per minor contact when you can only gain +4 per whole race A/B.
I would suggest that for an SR down with a penalty -10 is fair. For SR down with no penalty -2 or 3 would be fairer and more aching to a slap on the wrist an SR down should be.

Other than that, much clean racing to report and I have enjoyed my evening. (Also Race C sucks, wtf is with that tyre multiplier )

This is exactly the problem that most of us are having. Penalties for major contact are mostly ok. It is the random SR downs for incidental contact wiping 10 SR off the account that is the issue. Especially since in factoring these things the penalty system seems to use DR to decide who gets the SR down. On the whole most of the racing is a bit cleaner, but savage punts aren't being punished much and slight taps are getting the death penalty.

Good luck out there.

 

[Groundfish]

I can report after 3 races tonight I have moved from 56 to 52 sr, one a race crb, b race got punted caught, punted him, he disappeared shortly after. C race got tapped sr down lap one touched no one rest of race, blue b but no crb.
It’s FAR harder now to recover however I still support the system.
Seems like there’s some angry folks here in the low 50 sr range.
I still prefer this to people being able to nudge me offline slow me down and get nothing.
I believe crb on c race adds 13 sr that’s what I got last night...
I like this BECAUSE if someone goes dirty they will have to spend hours and hours getting back.
Sucks right now for me but I did this on purpose.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I can report after 3 races tonight I have moved from 56 to 52 sr, one a race crb, b race got punted caught, punted him, he disappeared shortly after. C race got tapped sr down lap one touched no one rest of race, blue b but no crb.
It’s FAR harder now to recover however I still support the system.
Seems like there’s some angry folks here in the low 50 sr range.
I still prefer this to people being able to nudge me offline slow me down and get nothing.
I believe crb on c race adds 13 sr that’s what I got last night...
I like this BECAUSE if someone goes dirty they will have to spend hours and hours getting back.
Sucks right now for me but I did this on purpose.

Only because FIA is done. I went from SR.D to max 99 SR in one FIA race
Btw they can still nudge you offline, slow you down, pass and get nothing. Just got to make sure it's a side nudge

All races should have the same max SR depending on your current SR. Not this nonsense with as low as 2 for a sprint race and sometimes over 30 for a FIA race. Btw that 13 SR is still 42 SR if you drop to SR.E. Hence so many 'angry' folks in SR.B. SR.E is designed to launch you straight back to SR.B in race C

 

[das89ca]

I can report after 3 races tonight I have moved from 56 to 52 sr, one a race crb, b race got punted caught, punted him, he disappeared shortly after. C race got tapped sr down lap one touched no one rest of race, blue b but no crb.
It’s FAR harder now to recover however I still support the system.
Seems like there’s some angry folks here in the low 50 sr range.
I still prefer this to people being able to nudge me offline slow me down and get nothing.
I believe crb on c race adds 13 sr that’s what I got last night...
I like this BECAUSE if someone goes dirty they will have to spend hours and hours getting back.
Sucks right now for me but I did this on purpose.

The system itself would really work well if it would assign blame correctly. Again last night had a 4s penalty because one overshoot the right hander at the beginning of sector 3, touched me on their way out of the track and slammed me with the SR loss. Add this to the "ping-pong"game in the midfield where even if you brake in time and live space you are pushed from behind into the car in front and the result is - SR 55.

This is a big problem - I can own my mistakes, but in a 6-7 car pack where I am in the middle at a track like Autopolis the current system is really a disaster.

 

[Kermit_2142]

The problem is it’s way too high risk to even race at the minute. I believe you should have to earn to keep your SR S. However I don’t think you should live in fear of an SR reset during every 3 lap race. It should be a more gradual progression lower and a gradual progression higher much like with DR.

Currently if your protecting your SR or DR it’s safer not to play the game than it is to try and race clean, this makes no sense

PD need to slow down the fall of SR so it is more similar to how DR swings. This will allow people to race without fear of a reset (which would only happen in extreme cases of rage). Currently I think the rise part is about right, maybe add 1 point extra to Race’s A/B and lower FIA gains to the level of race C. Similarly the fall of SR should on average match the rise (only PD will know this based on data collected).

Maybe something like this:
Corner cuts should not affect SR and stay neutral as they are now. During a race Green SR is worth +1 and Red SR is worth -3. However your loss or gain in SR rating is determined by your end SR result being positive or negative overall for that race. Penalties cost you SR no matter your end SR result.

Race A/B : CRB = +5SR / Race end Red SR = -2SR / Race end Blue SR = +2 SR / SR Down + Penalty = -5SR per penalty.

Race C/FIA : CRB = +10SR / Race end Red SR = -5SR / Race end Blue SR = +5SR / SR Down + Penalty = -10SR per penalty.

If you receive a SR Down + penalty you do not gain any more SR for that race but can continue to lose SR.
If you receive 3 SR downs + penalties in any race you also receive a 60s time penalty at the end of the race.

This allows minor contacts and close racing, however if persistent doesn’t allow it to go unpunished.
This punishes penalties and consistent penalties, however if you receive a stupid penalty, won’t ruin you SR rating like the current system.
Allows for a slower rise and fall of SR rating allowing drivers lobbies to be better organised and everyone having a more “fair” and “real” feeling of the system.
Ends the whole idea of “ruin Sr in A and B and gain it all back in Race C.” Now you can grind whatever you like.

 

[das89ca]

In my opinion SR should be an average based on the last 10-15 races.

At start of each race you will have a starting "default" of 90 SR. For each clean sector you should get +SR(up to maximum 10 per race), for each contact, penalty you should get -SR depending of how bad it was(-3 for minor bump or cutting the track, -10 for barging through overtake +2s penalty, -20 +5s penalty for major wipeout where the other car is spinning or out of track). Depending on SR level we should have a low SR value when you can't gain SR in that race - for example, if you are SR S and you go below 75 in lap2 you won't get any +SR till the end of the race. For A it can be 70, B 60 and so on. At the end of the race you get an SR rating for that race and it is calculated with the previous 9 races to get you the average rating SR - from which the matching is based.

In this way I think SR rating will be more relevant - as you rate the "tendency" to drive clean of the driver. Also, a race where you punt for fun will affect you at least 9 races from now on as it will still weigh in the average calculation. On the other hand, in clean drivers, a mistake during the race will not have such a big effect on your ratings as it still possible to get an +90 average with one Race SR of 60 if all others are 90+, but it will still make you drive more carefully until it's not taking into account anymore.

Of course this can be "played" also, but I think it would be a better solution.

 

[Trone_Colby]

Not me but let’s give it up for the penalty system.

 

[kungtotte_]

I think it's easier to build a system where the rating remains as it is now, but change how SR is gained or lost weighting in your past performances.

So each time you get SR downs you progressively lose more each time, and vice versa if you rarely get SR downs you lose the minimum amount for each infraction.

E.g. you get -3 SR for minor bumps and cuts, but each time you do it you add to a multiplier that increases the SR lost. So first time it's -3 * 1, second time it's -3 * 1.5, then -3 * 2, -3 * 3, -3 * 6 and so on.

With each SR up, the multiplier drops at half the rate you gained it, so if it takes 3 mistakes to reach a x3 multiplier it takes 6 SR ups to reset it to x1 multiplier.

Clean racers get minimum penalties each time, dirty drivers are punished harsher and harsher so that after ten dirty races they wipe out their SR for even minor bumps.

Use the multiplier as a weighting factor for matchmaking, so that low-mult racers drive with each other and vice versa. A low-mult racer with 80 SR is going to be safer than a high-mult one with 90 SR.

 

[Groundfish]

It’s been 2 years of complaints that 99 sr is too easy to achieve.
Now, for the first time in 2 years an SR down arrow truly means something, and 99 sr is difficult to hold, and the comments are “ITS TOO STRICT?”
smh

For the last 2 years sr down arrow meant NOTHING!
Oh get angry and smash someone off? No prob one race c AT MOST 2 if you fell down to c sr or something.

Right now we are seeing people react to the sr down actually meaning something, instead of being nothing more than a pop up add for vitamins on you tube that you skip.

 

[das89ca]

SR system is not too strict - is stupid. I wrote above how I got to SR55 from 99 in 1 race cause I got an undeserved penalty + some "close" racing on Autopolis with me being somewhere in the middle of a 6-7 car group and being hit from behind and pushed into the front car at least 4 times. The only chance to race clean in that situation is to pull over, let all cars pass by and then start...

 

[KosmoKazi]

So I’ve defended the recent update and I finally had a bad experience so thought it only fair to even out my argument.

I was AS just for ref.

So jumped into race B for a quick couple races before bed, it’s now 3 hours later

First race I very very gently touched the rear of the car ahead twice and recieved 2 SR downs, which is fair enough as a warning. Race went well, no penalties etc. Then I realised I lost 20sr - holy smokes that’s insane!!

No worries I’ll do a race C then call it a night. Race C is now filled with all sorts because I’m SR A now. Turn 1 skittled out of p3 with half a dozen others. Got stuck in the mid pack craziness and ended nurtral SR. Urgh. Not doing that again. Back to race B for a couple because I know I won’t get skittled at t1 and it’s a fun combo.

Race B only gives a max of 4Sr and even with all green if you corner cut you only gain 2SR. So 6 races later I’m back just into top split and have had some really fun and close races on the way even if the field has been split with A top half and D bottom half.

1 last race because I’m having fun and it’s now so late it doesn’t matter any more. Back in top split happy days, full AS lobby. Having a great 3 car battle and at the end of lap 2 the car behind misses his brake marker and does the right thing avoids us by miles and cuts the chicane so as not to hit us. I turn right and WHAM stop dead, wtf happened, then I see I’m inside his reset ghosted car. We continue he unghosts in front of me and I get a 3.5s penalty and end the race with -20SR and back to AA.

Fustrating as it is, it doesn’t matter to me any more as I don’t take fia serious and will grind race c next week to get back up to AS, but I can see why people are not playing/moaning here/running multiple accounts.

since the update this is my first “stupid” penalty and I’m still in favour of the system overall. However the Sr system is a bit OTT right now.

It’s not fair to penalise someone -10 per minor contact when you can only gain +4 per whole race A/B.
I would suggest that for an SR down with a penalty -10 is fair. For SR down with no penalty -2 or 3 would be fairer and more aching to a slap on the wrist an SR down should be.

Other than that, much clean racing to report and I have enjoyed my evening. (Also Race C sucks, wtf is with that tyre multiplier )

The ghosting and then re-spawning mid-corner are total failures on the part of PD... have had many races ruined by that... my precipitous SR drop some months ago was almost exclusively that, in trying to get thru the first chicane at Monza without any damage, had that happen over and over again. It seems an easy problem for them to fix, but they leave the stupid (absent) logic from the re-spawing, causing people who already likely did something wrong to have their problem spill over into someone else's race, who was trying to do it all right. Happened to me earlier this week in a Daily race as well. It's negligent of them to respawn cars into a pack of cars...

 

[Groundfish]

’m gonna be honest here and say that I may not be patient enough to get back to 99 given that my fridge is stocked with adult beverages and it’s 86 at Autopolis.
Sooooo frustrating starting at the back, low sr, surrounded by incompetence...
Race A I get wins but not much sr...
Race B gr4 low sr plus potential inebriation levels means sr WILL be lost.
Even if I’m quite careful, a simple overtake on a straight at B sr incurs what I am now referring to as ‘wrath of the clueless’
While it is fun to catch the nitwit cheater and give them karmic justice, it’s bad for sr.
Tonight I will begin again, with good intentions but I am entering whatever has the least wait time.

 

[Kermit_2142]

It’s been 2 years of complaints that 99 sr is too easy to achieve.
Now, for the first time in 2 years an SR down arrow truly means something, and 99 sr is difficult to hold, and the comments are “ITS TOO STRICT?”
smh

For the last 2 years sr down arrow meant NOTHING!
Oh get angry and smash someone off? No prob one race c AT MOST 2 if you fell down to c sr or something.

Right now we are seeing people react to the sr down actually meaning something, instead of being nothing more than a pop up add for vitamins on you tube that you skip.

I think most people agree it was stupidly easy to get SR99 before, but maybe they went a little too far???? Maybe if they tamed it enough so it deterred dirty driving but didn’t ruin people for poor penalties or “accidental mistakes” it wouldn’t be criticised so much??

Like you I haven’t had much issue with the new system, until last night, and I can now understand people’s frustrations especially if they’re lower in DR where races are more chaotic and unpredictable. However I still prefer it like this to having the Wild West we had before.

 

[sundaydriving]

Where is OP? Has he ascended??? Who doesn't like a good whinge?

 

[Fennario]

Late night Race C is the answer this week for SR recovery... much smaller lobbies and lots of off track adventures to clear the field. By the end of the first lap it's easy sailing/boring - just have to stay focused.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Late night Race C is the answer this week for SR recovery... much smaller lobbies and lots of off track adventures to clear the field. By the end of the first lap it's easy sailing/boring - just have to stay focused.

Yep, early morning is SR neutral / slight gain, afternoon slight loss, early evening reset time, late night SR up.
Monday early is good, later in the day (over)confidence grows. Friday is the cleanest, Saturday is danger zone. Sunday is pot luck.

 

[BaareCZ]

Took me 2 races at Spa with CRB to get back to 99 SR after this.



-7 SR for this??? You lose less for destroying someone!!! I'm not racing anymore, I'm avoiding contact. I literally 🤬 my pants every time another car is near me. Come on PD, this is just mental. And sideswiping someone into a wall is completely ignored.

 

[Groundfish]

Took me 2 races at Spa with CRB to get back to 99 SR after this.



-7 SR for this??? You lose less for destroying someone!!! I'm not racing anymore, I'm avoiding contact. I literally 🤬 my pants every time another car is near me. Come on PD, this is just mental. And sideswiping someone into a wall is completely ignored.

Is rear ending someone at -135- mph IN A TURN safe behavior?

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

Is rear ending someone at -135- mph IN A TURN safe behavior?

Popcorn at the ready!!!

It's not really the point though is it? No one lost control, no one was taken out, nothing was gained. Why the demotion? If they had ben sent to the shadow realm, then yes a demotion. But really......

The game is broken, pure and simple. PD don't care at this point, IMO.

 

[Groundfish]

Popcorn at the ready!!!

It's not really the point though is it? No one lost control, no one was taken out, nothing was gained. Why the demotion? If they had ben sent to the shadow realm, then yes a demotion. But really......

The game is broken, pure and simple. PD don't care at this point, IMO.

It’s just an sr down gamer wise racer wise potential for deadly expensive crash.
You’re either a gamer in a race, or a racer in a game...That game either has integrity (ACC) or it doesn’t (lenient GTS)

So many racers are so used to being gamers...It is what it is.
You either want to race fair in an adult fashion or you do not...
I think people need to run a check...As follows.
WHAT IS THE LIMIT?
Allow me to help, it’s a point in a turn where One GRAM more force upsets the car.
So another car rear ending a car AT THAT LIMIT has huge potential to cause a crash.
IRL there’s places to jostle and fight and no big like slow hairpins, but a 135 MPH high speed turn at the limit is not one place contact should ever be allowed imo.

 

[BaareCZ]

Is rear ending someone at -135- mph IN A TURN safe behavior?

Just as I expected. I tried to avoid, man. And lifting in the middle of a high speed turn for no reason whatsoever with a car right behind you is safe behaviour? I'm okay with the SR down. I'm talking about the severity of the punishment. You lose more for this then if you just take someone out completely. That was the point of my post. Now go back to your planet, I don't feed the trolls.

 

[kungtotte_]

Uh, there's lots of reasons to lift there?

Such as he might have gotten his turn-in wrong and would go off track without a lift.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Uh, there's lots of reasons to lift there?

Such as he might have gotten his turn-in wrong and would go off track without a lift.

He didn't get his turn in wrong and he didn't even end the corner near corner exit. @BaareCZ lifted as well to avoid.

The point is, harmless contact is a bigger SR deduction than wrecking someone. This should be -3 SR at most like it was before. The real problem is the high SR gains for race C leading to a 'dirty budget' at max SR. Instead of fixing that, PD made little contacts like this cost 10 or 12 SR to compensate?

The game already scales SR gains up under 50 SR, why not keep going and scale it down above 50 SR. You get 3.2 time the SR at SR.1, why not get 1/3.2 times the SR at SR 99. (thus little to nothing to 'spend' on contact) Then standardize SR gains to 5 for race A and B, 8 for race C and FIA.

Scale between 3x to 1/3rd depending on starting SR.
SR 1 max 15 SR for race A and B, max 24 SR for race C. (currently FIA can launch you to SR.99 in one race, race C to SR.B)
SR 25 max 10 SR for race A and B, max 12 SR for race C.
SR 50 max 5 SR for race A and B, max 8 SR for race C.
SR 75 max 3 SR for race A and B, max 4 SR for race C.
SR 99 max 2 SR for race A and B, max 3 SR for race C.

Much more difficult to reach 99 SR, and no need to deduct 12 SR per tiny contact to compensate.

 

[Groundfish]

I tried to avoid, man.

The game doesn’t know what you were ‘trying to do’. You rear ended a car in a dangerous high speed turn. You received sr down.
Jmo but if we wanna just start allowing people to ram each other in a turn like that then they might as well just turn off the entire rating and points systems completely and go to no rules at all.
Just be done with it and make it Mariokart at that point.
Maybe offer machine guns smokescreens and oil slicks like Spy Hunter.
Jmo the problem is people’s standards have dropped to lowest common denominator since the game has allowed bumper cars so long.
It’s a shame imo.

 

[kungtotte_]

The point is, harmless contact is a bigger SR deduction than wrecking someone.

That we agree on.

SR ups/downs should reflect the severity of the incident, absolutely, and if you end someone's race through contact the penalty should be proportionally severe compared to a bump that has little effect on the race results.

That doesn't make it no big deal to bump someone in the fastest corner on the track though (even if the person ahead does an unmotivated lift)...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

That we agree on.

SR ups/downs should reflect the severity of the incident, absolutely, and if you end someone's race through contact the penalty should be proportionally severe compared to a bump that has little effect on the race results.

That doesn't make it no big deal to bump someone in the fastest corner on the track though (even if the person ahead does an unmotivated lift)...

Failure to proceed is a ticketable offense in real life. Human reaction times are still over 250 ms, and detecting a lift where you don't expect one takes even longer. Slamming on the brakes in a high speed corner is dangerous as well. It's not ok to bump, it's also not ok to slow down for no reason either in the fastest corner on the track with a car right behind.

In this case shared fault is best. Car in front didn't need to lift, car behind failed to avoid contact.

Anyway this is why I keep more distance when racing from the back as you always have to be on the look out for cars braking in the weirdest places. Starting from the back, first lap, Raidillon, stay way back!

 

[Fennario]

Lost about 60 SR late night in a single Race C, going from S -> C. Started off big with Turn 1 turning me into the filling of an 86 Sandwich - Net result a 3 second penalty. From there out just the occasional brush on my car by others diveboming on subsequent T1's, the horseshoe, and/or final turn. None of these subsequent contacts affected the race in any way and were so light that my wheel didn't provide feedback (literally just brushing on entry or exit, not bumping/punt). Upside is easy racing in lower lobbies for the remainder of the week. 2 subsequent Race B's before going to bed got me back up to SRB (Pole, FL, CRB and win/P2).

Can definitely see where the new penalty system kicked in...

 

[BaareCZ]

Can definitely see where the new penalty system kicked in...

Same here.