PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

I got that to many times fastone371 back in January of last year, and I can not see PD with a fix, the only real way of a fix getting hit from behind, is to have real life racing stewards, watching every race in Sport Mode.

But this crap with the victim car getting a penalty needs to be changed, it was not always that way. There is no reason I should get a 3-5 second penalty because the car behind missed his braking point by 5 car lengths and knocked me off track. How is that avoidable for the victim??
 
There is no reason I should get a 3-5 second penalty because the car behind missed his braking point by 5 car lengths and knocked me off track. How is that avoidable for the victim??
To your good question. Nothing can not be done to avoid the victim getting a penalty in a computer game, unless PD brings in Ghosting to stop a player from doing that out on the track.

@Dmac72 This is where Ghosting should help you out in your incident, but you get a 5 second penalty instead which tells me that the penalty system is so stupid and it needs to be cleaned up now.
 
Time to vent, 5 sec penalty because this Mac driver can't keep his car under control
Hd8WFMg.gif

What am I supposed to do, slam on the brakes and get rear ended?
That cost 9 SR (-6 SR for the race) and 3 positions at the finish, but it's me that hit him....

Next race I get punted off at Indianapolis yet the car that punts me into the wall doesn't get a penalty?
He crashed as well, then he draft bumps me twice on the way to the Porsche curves, double SR Down for me. I got pissed and slammed on the brakes after the second SR Down, here's a real brake check. That cost 4 SR (-1 SR for that race). He got a blue S....
 
Time to vent, 5 sec penalty because this Mac driver can't keep his car under control
Hd8WFMg.gif

What am I supposed to do, slam on the brakes and get rear ended?
That cost 9 SR (-6 SR for the race) and 3 positions at the finish, but it's me that hit him....

Next race I get punted off at Indianapolis yet the car that punts me into the wall doesn't get a penalty?
He crashed as well, then he draft bumps me twice on the way to the Porsche curves, double SR Down for me. I got pissed and slammed on the brakes after the second SR Down, here's a real brake check. That cost 4 SR (-1 SR for that race). He got a blue S....
It would be so nice to send a message to PD, to explain that unfair penalty to them that you got, and we would like to know what PD had to say and what are they going to do a about these unfair penalties, but it would most likely just fall on deaf ears because it has gone on far to long.
 
Time to vent, 5 sec penalty because this Mac driver can't keep his car under control
Hd8WFMg.gif

What am I supposed to do, slam on the brakes and get rear ended?
That cost 9 SR (-6 SR for the race) and 3 positions at the finish, but it's me that hit him....

Next race I get punted off at Indianapolis yet the car that punts me into the wall doesn't get a penalty?
He crashed as well, then he draft bumps me twice on the way to the Porsche curves, double SR Down for me. I got pissed and slammed on the brakes after the second SR Down, here's a real brake check. That cost 4 SR (-1 SR for that race). He got a blue S....

This happens so bloody often it stopped being funny a long time ago.
 
It just feels to me like some of the SR downs are the wrong way round and the victim of a punt or worse a tap up the backside by someone who knows that gives the person in front a SR down when they are at full speed on a straight, then the perpertrator drives off scott free. It seems like it penalises the driver who did nothing apart from being the car infront.

If a car is going full speed on a straight and not on the brakes and they get punted or tapped from behind then it is the car behind at fault not the one infront but yet the car infront gets the SR down.

That is just wrong and needs to be fixed.
 
It just feels to me like some of the SR downs are the wrong way round and the victim of a punt or worse a tap up the backside by someone who knows that gives the person in front a SR down when they are at full speed on a straight, then the perpertrator drives off scott free. It seems like it penalises the driver who did nothing apart from being the car infront.

If a car is going full speed on a straight and not on the brakes and they get punted or tapped from behind then it is the car behind at fault not the one infront but yet the car infront gets the SR down.

That is just wrong and needs to be fixed.
Seems like the current penalty system assumes that the player being punted is blocking or brake-checking, regardless of whatever the car behind is actually doing. Curiously, I do remember getting rear-ended by another car during last week's Nations race at Bathurst and not receiving a penalty of any kind. It must be frustrating to know that while it has worked, the system is still inconsistent when it comes to detecting genuinely unsportsmanlike conduct on track...
 
If a car is going full speed on a straight and not on the brakes and they get punted or tapped from behind then it is the car behind at fault not the one infront but yet the car infront gets the SR down.

That is just wrong and needs to be fixed.
Unfortunately there will be no fix.
 
Unfortunately there will be no fix.
That is simply because different people want different things to happen in the same circumstance.

Have you read and recognised some of contradictory points of view put forward on multiple subjects on this forum recently?
There is no "one" or "correct" solution.
PD opt for what they consider to be the best compromise for all.
End of story.
 
To add to your discussion: this happened in yesterday's Supra Cup race:



The guy behind me basically braked at least 50m too late and instead of going straight and off as he should have, he decided to slam into me and send me into oblivion. That's very infuriating in itself but then the game decided to give me a 5s penalty for this... WHY?! Because I judged my brake distance correctly and chose the right braking point for the chicane?!
Here I was thinking, that the penalty system should protect people who are trying to race properly and cleanly from people who want to play bumper cars... But if I get punished for doing everything right, I'm starting to question the whole system. Honestly, maybe somebody from PD is actually reading this (I doubt it though...), stuff like this needs to be fixed asap.
If situations like this one keep happening, you can basically remove the penalty system altogether as it fails to properly do the one thing that it was meant to do.

I'm also a big fan of real life touring car racing (WTCR, DTM, GT Series...). If they had a penalty system like this, everybody, and I mean everybody would get at least 5s penalty per race and the SR-ratings would be around 0 because of all the bumps and contact. It is quite ridiculous really...
 
To add to your discussion: this happened in yesterday's Supra Cup race:



The guy behind me basically braked at least 50m too late and instead of going straight and off as he should have, he decided to slam into me and send me into oblivion. That's very infuriating in itself but then the game decided to give me a 5s penalty for this... WHY?! Because I judged my brake distance correctly and chose the right braking point for the chicane?!
Here I was thinking, that the penalty system should protect people who are trying to race properly and cleanly from people who want to play bumper cars... But if I get punished for doing everything right, I'm starting to question the whole system. Honestly, maybe somebody from PD is actually reading this (I doubt it though...), stuff like this needs to be fixed asap.
If situations like this one keep happening, you can basically remove the penalty system altogether as it fails to properly do the one thing that it was meant to do.

I'm also a big fan of real life touring car racing (WTCR, DTM, GT Series...). If they had a penalty system like this, everybody, and I mean everybody would get at least 5s penalty per race and the SR-ratings would be around 0 because of all the bumps and contact. It is quite ridiculous really...

Hey, I happened to be in that very same race you were in (the white, blue and red car leading the pack at 0:25 is me in 11th)! Shame you got rammed like that - the racing was relatively clean at my end.
 
To add to your discussion: this happened in yesterday's Supra Cup race:



The guy behind me basically braked at least 50m too late and instead of going straight and off as he should have, he decided to slam into me and send me into oblivion. That's very infuriating in itself but then the game decided to give me a 5s penalty for this... WHY?! Because I judged my brake distance correctly and chose the right braking point for the chicane?!
Here I was thinking, that the penalty system should protect people who are trying to race properly and cleanly from people who want to play bumper cars... But if I get punished for doing everything right, I'm starting to question the whole system. Honestly, maybe somebody from PD is actually reading this (I doubt it though...), stuff like this needs to be fixed asap.
If situations like this one keep happening, you can basically remove the penalty system altogether as it fails to properly do the one thing that it was meant to do.

I'm also a big fan of real life touring car racing (WTCR, DTM, GT Series...). If they had a penalty system like this, everybody, and I mean everybody would get at least 5s penalty per race and the SR-ratings would be around 0 because of all the bumps and contact. It is quite ridiculous really...



PD has the penalty system so effed up right now it would almost be better if they eliminated it completely. The innocent guy not only gets his race destroyed but also gets a penalty for racing correctly, why even give out penalties when the system gets it so wrong? I can't even imagine what this weeks race A is like with that difficult to control Speedster and people who dont believe in practicing before entering a race. As long as everything stays the same I will continue to avoid daily races and just race in lobbies until I get bored and quit altogether, which is what I think many have done already.
 
... If situations like this one keep happening, you can basically remove the penalty system altogether as it fails to properly do the one thing that it was meant to do. ...
PD has the penalty system so effed up right now it would almost be better if they eliminated it completely. ...

There's more and more comments like these and I second that to the fullest, however, can anyone explain how does it go together with this : vvv

... PD opt for what they consider to be the best compromise for all. ...

Do they really think they've found a good compromise :odd: ?

I don't think PD is blind and deaf, Kaz himself is a RL racer, and I can't imagine they're pleased with what they get to see in online racing ... if they're interested in more than their world finals that seem to work great so far :sly: !

When things fundamentally go wrong, you don't need tweaking and compromising but a fundamental change, don't you :cool: ...
 
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PD has the penalty system so effed up right now it would almost be better if they eliminated it completely. The innocent guy not only gets his race destroyed but also gets a penalty for racing correctly, why even give out penalties when the system gets it so wrong? I can't even imagine what this weeks race A is like with that difficult to control Speedster and people who dont believe in practicing before entering a race. As long as everything stays the same I will continue to avoid daily races and just race in lobbies until I get bored and quit altogether, which is what I think many have done already.

We saw last week what happens when the penalty system goes dormant. Last week's race C had so much SR to burn on a track so wide it rarely triggered penalties. 6 SR Downs would still easily be a blue S after the race. Instead of races getting cleaner during the week (Sarthe on Monday was a trip to SR.E, it's much much better now) the bumping, nose sticking, diving, bump passing and pit manoevering all increased.

The penalty system has too many flaws, but it's still better than no penalty system. You have to help it along now and then, make sure to step outside track limits when getting rammed to turn an SR Down for you into a penalty for the rammer. PD hasn't changed the basic algorithm since last summer, all you can do is to make sure you are the first one to go off after contact. (if you can't avoid getting hit)

My driving style has changed because of the penalty system, It's better to overtake on the outside, or on the side of the track with the least space on a straight. Always be the one closest to the edge. Only overtake on the inside if you're sure that a ram will put you over the inside line before the other car can bounce off track.

But there are always situations you can't do anything about. A car losing control clipping you, or a bumper from behind who then goes off before you can do anything. I now prefer to drive cars with maximum agility that favor fast corrections to avoid most problems. Cars that can brake late to avoid getting bumped from behind and have enough stability to quickly move out of the way of dive bombs. Hence I'm not driving the Maclaren BMW or GT-R on Sarthe this week. Early braking, slow to move out of the way, penalty magnets with the current system.
 
But this crap with the victim car getting a penalty needs to be changed, it was not always that way. There is no reason I should get a 3-5 second penalty because the car behind missed his braking point by 5 car lengths and knocked me off track. How is that avoidable for the victim??

It’s an absolute joke at the minute. The only way to avoid getting a penalty is to drive off the circuit and sabotage your
own race. Impossible to rebuild your SR if someone touches you even once.
 
When things fundamentally go wrong, you don't need tweaking and compromising but a fundamental change, don't you :cool: ...

You'd think so, but I can see how they've backed themselves a bit into a corner. It almost doesn't matter how bad the system is at assigning blame - there would be so much complaining if it were removed, and in terms that would hurt even if untrue: "Really PD, you're pandering to dirty drivers now?!"

My view on SR has always been that it should simply measure statistical involvement in incidents (and it could certainly be improved at doing that) and that no blame should be used in it - both cars get the same SR down.

I think there's only a very few cases where blame could be assigned reliably, and the system should limit itself to those. Maybe only one case, actually... if a car is coming towards a corner so fast that there's no way it's going to make it round the corner without contact with a car in front, that's pretty clear cut and something that code could be written to detect. I'd say it's also the best case for ghosting the car, because it's going to have a race-killing effect on whoever it hits.

Anything further is extremely hard to automatically assign blame for with any reliability, so following a logical train of thought those should just be something left to a statistical SR system. It seems a folly to me to try and do more. Since the penalties are harsh, it has to be correct.

It obviously has drawbacks, but if the SR could work well enough that rubbin-is-racin is removed from SR S then I think it would be acceptable. One big benefit is that the rules are clearer!

There's no chance of them making a change that big. They could work on the SR part without making huge changes, but they don't. I can't totally blame them though, because in part it's demands from users wanting to see 'punishment' for wrong-doers that's led them to focus on immediate penalties rather than, say, better SR (which might take a few races to deal with a wrong-doer, depending on their habits).
 
We saw last week what happens when the penalty system goes dormant. Last week's race C had so much SR to burn on a track so wide it rarely triggered penalties. 6 SR Downs would still easily be a blue S after the race. Instead of races getting cleaner during the week (Sarthe on Monday was a trip to SR.E, it's much much better now) the bumping, nose sticking, diving, bump passing and pit manoevering all increased.

The penalty system has too many flaws, but it's still better than no penalty system. You have to help it along now and then, make sure to step outside track limits when getting rammed to turn an SR Down for you into a penalty for the rammer. PD hasn't changed the basic algorithm since last summer, all you can do is to make sure you are the first one to go off after contact. (if you can't avoid getting hit)

My driving style has changed because of the penalty system, It's better to overtake on the outside, or on the side of the track with the least space on a straight. Always be the one closest to the edge. Only overtake on the inside if you're sure that a ram will put you over the inside line before the other car can bounce off track.

But there are always situations you can't do anything about. A car losing control clipping you, or a bumper from behind who then goes off before you can do anything. I now prefer to drive cars with maximum agility that favor fast corrections to avoid most problems. Cars that can brake late to avoid getting bumped from behind and have enough stability to quickly move out of the way of dive bombs. Hence I'm not driving the Maclaren BMW or GT-R on Sarthe this week. Early braking, slow to move out of the way, penalty magnets with the current system.

If I have to drive off track to "pay back" someone who hits me or prevent a penalty what is even the point of racing?? I would rather skip Sport Mode racing than put up with that crap. When I do dailys I like to spend a fair amount of time qualifying to get a decent starting spot near the front to then only have my race ruined in the first corner by someone trying to go from 10th to 2nd L1 T1, because I was cautious enough to not hit the cars in front of me. I then not only go from say 4th to 12th but I get "awarded" a 5 second penalty due to PD's ineptness or laziness. No thanks, I'll pass, I play this game to have fun and I dont find Sport Mode particularly fun at the moment which means 1 of 2 things, either they change something or I quit playing altogether.
 
You'd think so, but I can see how they've backed themselves a bit into a corner. It almost doesn't matter how bad the system is at assigning blame - there would be so much complaining if it were removed, and in terms that would hurt even if untrue: "Really PD, you're pandering to dirty drivers now?!"

My view on SR has always been that it should simply measure statistical involvement in incidents (and it could certainly be improved at doing that) and that no blame should be used in it - both cars get the same SR down.

I think there's only a very few cases where blame could be assigned reliably, and the system should limit itself to those. Maybe only one case, actually... if a car is coming towards a corner so fast that there's no way it's going to make it round the corner without contact with a car in front, that's pretty clear cut and something that code could be written to detect. I'd say it's also the best case for ghosting the car, because it's going to have a race-killing effect on whoever it hits.

Anything further is extremely hard to automatically assign blame for with any reliability, so following a logical train of thought those should just be something left to a statistical SR system. It seems a folly to me to try and do more. Since the penalties are harsh, it has to be correct.

It obviously has drawbacks, but if the SR could work well enough that rubbin-is-racin is removed from SR S then I think it would be acceptable. One big benefit is that the rules are clearer!

There's no chance of them making a change that big. They could work on the SR part without making huge changes, but they don't. I can't totally blame them though, because in part it's demands from users wanting to see 'punishment' for wrong-doers that's led them to focus on immediate penalties rather than, say, better SR (which might take a few races to deal with a wrong-doer, depending on their habits).

There are plenty more clear cut cases PD could look at.

The game knows the direction you should generally be following, the racing line. Plus the whole game is about grip, keeping control of the car. A car that's sliding out of control, hitting a car that has full grip, should be suspect number one. A car spinning out in front of you and tapping you on the way out, racing incident, SR Down for the driver losing control, certainly not a penalty for the innocent bystander. A car who's vector is more than 30 degrees off the driving line should be suspect number two.

The tricky part is sharing corners, yet even there some clear cut rules are possible. Leave at least a car width room if significant overlap has been established before turn in (or anywhere really) That should not be that hard to program. In case of doubt, SR Down for both and no penalty. Clear cut case, penalty to the one not leaving room, either bumping the car on the inside not leaving enough room, or bumping the car on the outside at corner exit not leaving enough room. Or even on a straight, crowding/pushing a car off should be SR Down.

And as you said, missing braking points, ghost and reset the car to before the corner. That will quickly teach people to brake on time.

Anything else, go back to the primitive system the game started with, SR Down for both.

I'm all for a statistical approach instead of the simple capped point system that wholly relies on how much SR a race gives. For example keep a record of how many contacts per last couple hours drive time people had and translate that to your SR rating.

Also I would like to see SR Down for short cuts, spinning out, hitting walls etc. (on your own). First part of safe driving is to keep the car under control and stay on the track. If everyone in SR.S would stay on the track, the races would be a lot better already.


If I have to drive off track to "pay back" someone who hits me or prevent a penalty what is even the point of racing?? I would rather skip Sport Mode racing than put up with that crap. When I do dailys I like to spend a fair amount of time qualifying to get a decent starting spot near the front to then only have my race ruined in the first corner by someone trying to go from 10th to 2nd L1 T1, because I was cautious enough to not hit the cars in front of me. I then not only go from say 4th to 12th but I get "awarded" a 5 second penalty due to PD's ineptness or laziness. No thanks, I'll pass, I play this game to have fun and I dont find Sport Mode particularly fun at the moment which means 1 of 2 things, either they change something or I quit playing altogether.

Can't disagree with you as I stopped qualifying to avoid just that. I rather go from last to 6th in a race than from 6th to last in T1. I'm always excited when I get to start in dead last since no one can punt me in T1. (which often still happens when I start a few places up to either receive SR Down or end up in the sand/barrier) I'm not fast enough to start top 3, midfield is an awful place to start. Anything that happens in front, the ones behind you will make sure to bump you right into it.
 
Yep, getting a unfair penalty or penalties for a player that is just doing the right thing out on the track, and that is not the the best compromise for all is it.
End of story.
Well your only way to fix ramming and dive-bombing is by ghosting 'solution' is not one that would be happy with.
Heavy braking zones would be a mockery, and it would take away everything that motor racing is about.

So if they were to implement that idea, while it may fix it for you, it would totally ruin it for me.
And that was my point.
 
Well your only way to fix ramming and dive-bombing is by ghosting 'solution' is not one that would be happy with.
Heavy braking zones would be a mockery, and it would take away everything that motor racing is about.

So if they were to implement that idea, while it may fix it for you, it would totally ruin it for me.
And that was my point.
Ghosting is the solution and there is no other fix to fix the unfair penalties you will get in a race, so ghosting is the only option.
All I want and many others players want a penalty system that works, but the penalty system is not working, because of unfairness in the system.
 
While I appreciate that ghosting looks like an obvious solution, it does, as Tassie mentioned, make a mockery of a racing game, there was a daily at Blue Moon that had heavy ghosting and you just end up time trialling round and ghosting through each other. I still think that most problems are caused by players rather than the penalty system, sometimes by accident and sometimes on purpose, you may have someone who's done hundreds of races playing against someone who is a more casual player, it's a bit like putting novice club racers into F1 or LMP1...as I said before, SR S should be harder to attain.
 
While I appreciate that ghosting looks like an obvious solution, it does, as Tassie mentioned, make a mockery of a racing game, there was a daily at Blue Moon that had heavy ghosting and you just end up time trialling round and ghosting through each other. I still think that most problems are caused by players rather than the penalty system, sometimes by accident and sometimes on purpose, you may have someone who's done hundreds of races playing against someone who is a more casual player, it's a bit like putting novice club racers into F1 or LMP1...as I said before, SR S should be harder to attain.

But just being SR S does not guarantee that you will be xc racing with a full field of SR S drivers. Plus there are SR S drivers who have learned to game the system. The biggest problem is probably driver mentality, the win at all cost drivers who will go 2 wide thru a chicane and also so many who think the only way to pass is late braking. My number 1 goal for every race is to stay on track without hitting anything or anyone, not to try to win at any cost.
 
I have iRacing account and also GT Sport. In my timezone, iRacing only active after midnight ( when the european start participating )

While during the day, I will play GTS.

Im the type who play for immersion and safe, not really after points / dr / ir. So I will race within track limit, slowing the car when yellow flag being shown and took a safe line when blue flag being shown ( multiclass )

When I change my goal when playing both, the experience is better and I enjoyed playing both titles.

GTS in my region is vary, but most of them will be kids that racing for the win and with no sportsmanship. Well in iRacing, they have those kind of drivers too, namely in imsa gte, mazda cup and gt3.

So, IMHO both titles have its own problem to solve.

But when I change my mind just race, enjoy full grids, roleplaying as an Amateur Racer..then it will be a great journey.
Yes, the most important thing is the inner attitude and motivation. I also play because I want to experience good clean racing. Victories or Tropies do not interest me so much. Yes a win is nice but certainly not at any price. But in GT Sport, I'm often surrounded by players who seemingly are all about victories, achievements and trophies. As a result, different attitudes and a different potential for aggression collide. And unfortunately you can often take that literally with the "collide". There is no possibility in GT Sport to tell the program your own motivation so that it can take this into account in matchmaking. But there are statistics that can be evaluated. For both of us, there are probably relatively few touches per race or unit of time. For riders who want to win at any price, the values certainly look different. From this the system can certainly gain interesting insights about the respective profiles which could then be taken into consideration during matchmaking. These statistics are certainly more meaningful than the current SR rating.
 
There are plenty more clear cut cases PD could look at.

The game knows the direction you should generally be following, the racing line. Plus the whole game is about grip, keeping control of the car. A car that's sliding out of control, hitting a car that has full grip, should be suspect number one. A car spinning out in front of you and tapping you on the way out, racing incident, SR Down for the driver losing control, certainly not a penalty for the innocent bystander. A car who's vector is more than 30 degrees off the driving line should be suspect number two.

The tricky part is sharing corners, yet even there some clear cut rules are possible. Leave at least a car width room if significant overlap has been established before turn in (or anywhere really) That should not be that hard to program. In case of doubt, SR Down for both and no penalty. Clear cut case, penalty to the one not leaving room, either bumping the car on the inside not leaving enough room, or bumping the car on the outside at corner exit not leaving enough room. Or even on a straight, crowding/pushing a car off should be SR Down.

I'm not sure these can be programmed in a reliable enough way. If they can, then of course they could be included. They might not need to be 100% reliable, but there has be absolutely no way they could be gamed with any success.

The thing that makes my example possibly unique is that the code to implement it just has to look at one car at one moment in time to make it's decision. Once it starts looking to two or more cars over a period of time, it gets far more complicated. Hence you get PD coming up with their simplistic 'contact -> car off -> penalty' approach - which would work OK-ish if everyone was playing cleanly.

It would then have to consider knock-on effects - in your first example of a car sliding out of control into someone, what if they were sliding because they'd been hit themselves? They might have been braking a little early to make sure to avoid contact, but been pushed by someone behind who didn't. It's a lot to keep track of, and every step could have a loophole to be gamed.

And there's always some lag of course, meaning that every bit of tracking has to negotiate between the clients to try and construct a singular timeline of what actually happened.

Anyway, my point wasn't to go into lots of cases, but to lay down what the criteria for including code to assign blame should be. I think it has to be near 100% reliable to avoid any opportunity to be gamed. Because if it can be gamed, it will.

Also I would like to see SR Down for short cuts, spinning out, hitting walls etc. (on your own). First part of safe driving is to keep the car under control and stay on the track. If everyone in SR.S would stay on the track, the races would be a lot better already.

Agreed, but just with the goal of calculating the right SR. Possibly these would be a smaller -ve than contact with another car.
 
Right now the system can't even get simple things right (I suspect different Dr/Sr levels having different rules are the major issue here).



Here's an on-board clip which shows when the system just does not work. I'm hit with a SR down, another driver is smashed off the track and the off track corner cutter who caused it all received no penalty either for the cut or knocking the other car off. :crazy:
 
Well your only way to fix ramming and dive-bombing is by ghosting 'solution' is not one that would be happy with.
Heavy braking zones would be a mockery, and it would take away everything that motor racing is about.

So if they were to implement that idea, while it may fix it for you, it would totally ruin it for me.
And that was my point.

Why would removing punts and side swipes ruin it for you? Ghosting should only work when it's obvious. It already knows when, but you have to be DR.D or SR.E or have a lot of lag to get ghosted to keep others from harm. However the one getting ghosted should not get a free pass as what happens now.


While I appreciate that ghosting looks like an obvious solution, it does, as Tassie mentioned, make a mockery of a racing game, there was a daily at Blue Moon that had heavy ghosting and you just end up time trialling round and ghosting through each other. I still think that most problems are caused by players rather than the penalty system, sometimes by accident and sometimes on purpose, you may have someone who's done hundreds of races playing against someone who is a more casual player, it's a bit like putting novice club racers into F1 or LMP1...as I said before, SR S should be harder to attain.

That was at a phase where if you hit a car that car would then be immune from further hits by that driver. And it was indeed abused on Bluemoon. It wasn't heavy ghosting, it was cars that had made contact before already and were now kept contact free by ghosting. I saw people simple drive inside each other on a couple tracks until PD gave up on that.

The thing that's missing is that emergency ghosting should come with SR Down and perhaps even a penalty. Any 'free' ghosting will be abused. Emergency ghosting for braking way too late, reset before the corner. Emergency ghosting for a side swipe, SR Down and time penalty as if you had hit that car off the road.

Last night I had a race where a car ghosted through me twice by coming at me at too steep an angle and too fast. First time at the first chicane on the straight, successful pass by him. Second time on Mulsanne, he went through me again by had a worse corner exit with his weird angle (diving in from way wide outside the lines). Accidents prevented, yet he got a blue S for that.


I'm not sure these can be programmed in a reliable enough way. If they can, then of course they could be included. They might not need to be 100% reliable, but there has be absolutely no way they could be gamed with any success.

The thing that makes my example possibly unique is that the code to implement it just has to look at one car at one moment in time to make it's decision. Once it starts looking to two or more cars over a period of time, it gets far more complicated. Hence you get PD coming up with their simplistic 'contact -> car off -> penalty' approach - which would work OK-ish if everyone was playing cleanly.

It would then have to consider knock-on effects - in your first example of a car sliding out of control into someone, what if they were sliding because they'd been hit themselves? They might have been braking a little early to make sure to avoid contact, but been pushed by someone behind who didn't. It's a lot to keep track of, and every step could have a loophole to be gamed.

And there's always some lag of course, meaning that every bit of tracking has to negotiate between the clients to try and construct a singular timeline of what actually happened.

Anyway, my point wasn't to go into lots of cases, but to lay down what the criteria for including code to assign blame should be. I think it has to be near 100% reliable to avoid any opportunity to be gamed. Because if it can be gamed, it will.



Agreed, but just with the goal of calculating the right SR. Possibly these would be a smaller -ve than contact with another car.

Yep it's very difficult and PD scrapped the system that looked at where contact occurs between cars (assuming that nose to back half is the 'bad guy') since lag messes with the actual positioning while a dive bomb has a good chance of having your car already ahead at point of impact.

True, a car can go into a slide or step off road to avoid another car losing control. You can program 'forgiveness' for a car getting bumped, which the game already keeps track off. If you get bumped into another car, the first car to make contact gets the penalty. But trying to figure out why you want into a slide or left the road (to avoid a car) is very hard. And if that causes an accident you can be more screwed than simply hitting the first car instead of avoiding.

Anyway there are still a lot of very clear cut cases that can be fixed first before looking into the more difficult multi car collision problems. A car out of control, coming from off track, hitting another car on the way off the other side off the track should never give a penalty to the innocent bystander. And if the car in front is on the gas, going ina straight line and not braking then it's not a brake check!


SR can be better determined by contacts / hours modified by contacts / position swaps and off road excursions. The more you cleanly swap position, the longer you drive without contact, that's what should give you SR.S.
 
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