Perfect Shifting?

[Doggie]

Has been said many times, but :
Manual =
1. More control
2. More fun

What has not been said is that Manual gearbox is a good way to learn new tracks. Because GT has "suggested gear" feature (shows best gear for next curve in red, and starts flashing when you should start to brake) With automatic I used to always have too much speed entering a corner... Now when I see that next corner is a second gear corner, breaking and downshifting makes my speed to corner just right. This starts later to come "automaticly" and remembering corners is easy..

However I didn't learn to use manual before I changed to steering wheel controller... it was just too hard to do with pad..

 

[Piotr]

Perhaps this guide might help some of you:
Gran Turismo 3 Shifter's Guide

 

[Zlaja0150]

OFF the topic My top speed just borken by VW W12 Nardo 450Kmh

 

[lnasphinx]

OFF the topic My top speed just borken by VW W12 Nardo 450Kmh

wolksvagen is that fast? can you post your settings?

 

[kikie]

It all has to do with the cars power band and gearing. matching the right RPM's with the right gear and you have yourself a good shift. Shift to early and you miss the engines top power, shift to late and you over rev, also missing the engines most power output.

Can anyone agree with me on this? or not, whatever.

I agree.

A friend of mine is a test pilot (daily road cars, not race cars) and he explained it to me

 

[Taneras]

B: Always drive your car at 60% its maximum operating capacity.
if it redlines at 8, never bring it above 5. Never floor it, especially with todays cars running more hp than before, you don't NEED to juice it to go.

Nailing your car every once in awhile is actually good for it. It gets the carbon out

 

[ppucci]

Exactly!

Darts, this is why you should use manual. It's not difficult to downshift. It just takes practice like anything else.

I would love to play using manual, but as somebody stated before, it is too damn difficulto to accelerate, brake, turn, look back, upshift and downshift using only a few fingers. I am a poor DS2 player...

But I really pretend to play manual when I get my DFP, that will be a lot like driving a real car (from what I've been reading) and on that matter I can say I have no problem driving (and even racing) manual cars.

c ya

 

[T5-R]

Never redlined my 1.2 hatch yet since I don't want to encourage the timing belt to snap as it could do with being replaced. But believe me in small cars you do need to floor it from time to time (especially up hills!), max I've revved to is about 5000rpm I think, redline is 6000. Certainly quick to 30mph though

 

[Stune]

I would love to play using manual, but as somebody stated before, it is too damn difficulto to accelerate, brake, turn, look back, upshift and downshift using only a few fingers. I am a poor DS2 player...

But I really pretendo to play manual when I get my DFP, that will be a lot like driving a real car (from what I've been reading) and on that matter I can say I have no problem driving (and even racing) manual cars.

c ya

Manual is somthing you have to get used to, start by using slow cars.

 

[Taneras]

I would love to play using manual, but as somebody stated before, it is too damn difficulto to accelerate, brake, turn, look back, upshift and downshift using only a few fingers. I am a poor DS2 player...

But I really pretend to play manual when I get my DFP, that will be a lot like driving a real car (from what I've been reading) and on that matter I can say I have no problem driving (and even racing) manual cars.

c ya

I never found it hard to use manual on GT3, but I played it for so long I guess I got use to it, I dunno...???

Anyways after awhile you get so use to running a certian car (towards the end of GT3 I only used 4 or 5 different cars), anyways towards the end of GT3 I didn't even need to look at the tach, I knew when it was time to shift by the sound of the engine. Same when I went into turns, just by how my car was acting and how the engine sounded would tell me weather or not I needed to shift up or down, or shift at all. Force yourself to do it. Select the manual option from the start of GT4, and by the time you get to the hard races you'll be use to the manual setup

 

[ppucci]

Manual is somthing you have to get used to, start by using slow cars.

I agree with you, I've tried it a couple of times with some slower cars, it is kind of allright for me, but when you start to race with faster cars, it is very confusing to upshift and down**** at all times on the DS2. Try to race with a GTOne, a F1 car or even a Viper Oreca in a strangled circuit where you have to upshift and downshift all the time... your fingers will go crazy, it is too fast...

 

[Taneras]

I agree with you, I've tried it a couple of times with some slower cars, it is kind of allright for me, but when you start to race with faster cars, it is very confusing to upshift and down**** at all times on the DS2. Try to race with a GTOne, a F1 car or even a Viper Oreca in a strangled circuit where you have to upshift and downshift all the time... your fingers will go crazy, it is too fast...

Nah its not really that bad.

From the start of GT4, use a manual. By the time you get to the hard tracks with the fast cars, you'll be use to it.

 

[ppucci]

Nah its not really that bad.

From the start of GT4, use a manual. By the time you get to the hard tracks with the fast cars, you'll be use to it.

Well, what I pretend to do is to but the damn DFP with GT4, so I can race it like it is meant to be raced from the beggining... Maybe I will even play some GT3 again to see what I was missing...

 

[Taneras]

Well, what I pretend to do is to but the damn DFP with GT4, so I can race it like it is meant to be raced from the beggining... Maybe I will even play some GT3 again to see what I was missing...

Good idea

Yea play some GT3 with a manual to get use to it a little... You've still got a few days/weeks till GT4 comes out, so go ahead and practice a little

 

[cerbman1]

When I change gear I always use manual, R1 & R2 works very well.

 

[Swift]

Every great once in a while is fine, but on a regular basis, it will add more wear and tear.
The general rule to treating your car for LONGETIVITY is to
A: Always start your car and let it warm up to operating temp before driving.
With fuel injection in all cars these days, you can just start the car and go, without waiting for the car to warm up. This is BAD for the car and in it's lifespan, it can mean buying a new one at 150,000 instead of 220,000............
B: Always drive your car at 60% its maximum operating capacity.
if it redlines at 8, never bring it above 5. Never floor it, especially with todays cars running more hp than before, you don't NEED to juice it to go. There is NO reason EVER to floor or almost floor a car with 140 hp. or even 130 (if it's not a van or stationwagon of course). Take it easy guys , just because the car can go 0-60 in 8 seconds doesn't mean you HAVE to. Let it take 15 or 20 seconds............. Shift slowly. Easy off the gas, clutch in, shift, easy out and easy back on.
And I lied, there's one more step
C: Keep up on the repairs and preventative maint...........This is also a biggie.

You do all these, your car will last twice as long as all your friends.....trust me, and you'll spend less money on repairs as them too.........because you won't have to repair it as much!

Most of what you said is true. However, never pushing your car at all is just as bad as going to the redline everytime.

As mentioned before, carbon can build up when the car's RPM's are never pushed. Also, with sports cars/coupes especially, it's important to vary the rpm range during break in. This helps all the parts to get meshed together. Going down the highway at 65mph for hours on end in the same gear is about the worst thing you can do.

You are pretty much right about not having to step on it all the time. And I don't, however, I try to enjoy driving and since I'm paying for the car, I had might as well go quickly every now and then. Never floor it? come on ! How are you ever going to understand the limits of your car if you don't push it? This kinda goes back to the control thing. If you don't know what your car can and can't do, how can you control it in emergency situations? Understand the limits of the car is one of the first steps to being a better driver, IMHO.

But 80% of what you said made good sense. 👍

 

[baaaam]

its important to know the max torque and the max power.
the best shift: after the shift your rpm must be at the max torque and its not good to shift to late if the engine is a turbo.
but if the engine is a "no-turbo-engine"(don't know the english word for saugmotor) it is better to shift very late.

i'm sorry but my english is very bad. so i hope you'll understand me.

 

[Taneras]

its important to know the max torque and the max power.
the best shift: after the shift your rpm must be at the max torque and its not good to shift to late if the engine is a turbo.
but if the engine is a "no-turbo-engine"(don't know the english word for saugmotor) it is better to shift very late.

i'm sorry but my english is very bad. so i hope you'll understand me.

English word for "no turbo engine" would be N/A or natrually aspirated.

 

[S31Ender]

Nailing your car every once in awhile is actually good for it. It gets the carbon out

or not.

I'm not even going to START to explain the stupidity of that statement.
Maybe tomorrow. I'm to tired for this one.

 

[Taneras]

or not.

I'm not even going to START to explain the stupidity of that statement.
Maybe tomorrow. I'm to tired for this one.

Because you can't, what I said is true.

Even swift agreed with me a few posts up... 👍

EDIT: My mustang tachs up to around 5,500 RPM, so your telling me I should never bring it above 3,300 rpm? (5,500 x 60% = 3,300)

 

[chameleon2]

what are your reasons to use Manual? most of the time racing cars and good road cars have Automatic option so you can't react with the realism part.

Simple.....engine control.
The engine revving puts out forces on the car, if you can control these forces, this sort of gives you a little extra control. Plus downshifting in while braking increases braking ability, the high revs slow down quicker than lower revs.

For drifting, you can actually break the balance in a corner by downshifting. Not sure what it's called I forgot, but Tsuchiya's Drift Bible explains it all.

I don't like racing automatics.....I do choose automatic for cars that have them, ie. Merry CL65 AMG. It just doesn't feel right manually controlling gears in such an expensive car. And contrary to what you're saying most of the racing cars DONT use autos. I don't know but I sort of have the feeling that if the manufactorer puts an auto tranny in it, it is not designed for racing, more for cruisin or the autobahn. I'd love to see that implemeneted in a later GT, just cruisin through the main menu. Instead of clicking on German Cars or something, you'd drive around in an area with buildings, each of the buildings representing different sections. That way you could have a more life like car wash instead of 3 people scrubbing your car 2 seconds. Or a petrol station. Or tuning shops, or banks for credit, or mission halls, or a road leading you to the race course. etc, etc.

It all has to do with the cars power band and gearing. matching the right RPM's with the right gear and you have yourself a good shift. Shift to early and you miss the engines top power, shift to late and you over rev, also missing the engines most power output.

I think this answers my questions. Pretty plain logic 💡

on automatic you have no mistkaes and can fully concentarte on driving.

Meaning that if you want ultimate engine control you got to learn to shift as perfect as automatic. I don't think it's possible to shift better than automatics though, as humans can never put in such precise adjustments, however being able to control everything gives you the edge over automatics trannies. It might not be as precise (ie manual shifting cars wear out faster) but definitely more effective. I think overall the shifting the gears perfect is half of the driving experience in real life. You are right you can concentrate much better on the driving if you use auto, but that's just because you can't shift properly. If you are as far as that you can shift really perfect, you don't really think about the shifting anymore, everything goes automatic because of feel and experience. If you think about the process of shifting you're not good enough. I might have no clutch in GT4, but I don't think about the shifting anymore. If I do I mess up. I also tend to release the accel while shifting. It is not necassery I know, but feels a bit more real. (you people might think I'm crazy hahah)

its the best shift: after the shift your rpm must be at the max torque and its not good to shift to late if the engine is a turbo.

Why is that? Because the turbo spins at very very high revs?

 

[Tuscan UK]

Thanks for the info so far guys, it's been a very interesting thread. These forums are really cool. I'm going back to GT3 and testing different shift times. I noticed it was really bad on GT4P in the Nissan 200SX. Shift from 1st to 2nd was stupidly long. I'm getting back in that car and trying different shift times.

Is there an option to view telemetry in GT3? I can't remember seeing it. Or for that matter GT4, if anyone knows..?

 

[Double_R]

You can exit turns quicker with a manual transmission. A car is quicker with a manual transmission, correct me if I'm wrong.

Ofcourse a car is quicker in manual. In manual you have more control over the care because in automatic the car doesnt no your next move and there fore in coners manual is alot faster than automatic. When you get GT4 use manual because all the first races are easy anyway and that way you will get used to manual. I just listin to the engines sound for when Im shifting and if im entering a corner quickly and need to slow down I shift down with maybe letting the limiter bounce a few times and then quickly shift up agaian staying in the power zones of the engine at all times.

Have a go with manual and you will see. I promise up to 5 secs faster laps than with auto.

 

[cubits]

You can't rev turbo's because once you reach a certain point, an engine ceases to push air through the engine as efficiently. It's called volumetric efficiency. If the air being pushed through the engine stops accelerating, so does the turbo, and you lose boost, and power.

You shouldn't just keep revving N/A cars either. They suffer the same fate eventually. There is an optimum point to shift, and it isn't the rev limiter. Multiple factors vary this, such as the VE, air/fuel mixture, and other proprietry systems such as vtec.

About the long shift from first to second. That's to do with engine inertia and engine braking.

If you rev a car harder, there will be more engine braking relative to inertia (so the engine will slow down quicker). Now, shifting from first to second requires the biggest drop in engine speed, so it will take the longest as the engine slows down enough to engage the next gear cleanly.

If you summon more engine braking, the shift time will be shorter because the engine will slow down quicker.

 

[petsmart]

Only 6More Days:d:d

 

[Hemmo]

i did not have time to read hole thread,but automatic changes gear usually too early and it down shifts too freaking slow..and its so dull driving with automatic......

 

[Swift]

You can't rev turbo's because once you reach a certain point, an engine ceases to push air through the engine as efficiently. It's called volumetric efficiency. If the air being pushed through the engine stops accelerating, so does the turbo, and you lose boost, and power.

You shouldn't just keep revving N/A cars either. They suffer the same fate eventually. There is an optimum point to shift, and it isn't the rev limiter. Multiple factors vary this, such as the VE, air/fuel mixture, and other proprietry systems such as vtec.

About the long shift from first to second. That's to do with engine inertia and engine braking.

If you rev a car harder, there will be more engine braking relative to inertia (so the engine will slow down quicker). Now, shifting from first to second requires the biggest drop in engine speed, so it will take the longest as the engine slows down enough to engage the next gear cleanly.

If you summon more engine braking, the shift time will be shorter because the engine will slow down quicker.

Nice explaination! 👍

 

[Scaff]

Thanks for the info so far guys, it's been a very interesting thread. These forums are really cool. I'm going back to GT3 and testing different shift times. I noticed it was really bad on GT4P in the Nissan 200SX. Shift from 1st to 2nd was stupidly long. I'm getting back in that car and trying different shift times.

Is there an option to view telemetry in GT3? I can't remember seeing it. Or for that matter GT4, if anyone knows..?

In GT3c use the run and settings option from Home and once you have run at least one lap you get access to the data logger (very basic telematry), if you save a best lap you can then load it up and compare differnt laps in the same car or different cars.

 

[Gabkicks]

Simple.....engine control.
The engine revving puts out forces on the car, if you can control these forces, this sort of gives you a little extra control. Plus downshifting in while braking increases braking ability, the high revs slow down quicker than lower revs. ............

For drifting, you can actually break the balance in a corner by downshifting. Not sure what it's called I forgot, but Tsuchiya's Drift Bible explains it all.

yeah, clutch kicking? or the slight pause in the accelleration could cause wheels to spin too slowly (life off) depending on LSD settings.

 

[joid]

Don't know if this has already been answered else where, but this seemed like the right forum to post it in.....Does GT4 allow you to chose between automatic and manual, right before racing, like it does in arcade ???....I always hate to go into the options in GT3 and change it manually....because in some races I like to do manual...but sometimes I like to switch to automatic...to change things up a bit