[PETITION] Make Gran Turismo 7 available to play offline.

FPV MIC

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3,141
Australia
Australia
GT-MIC
snip yet GT7, when it's all said and done, will probably be a shell of its former self when the servers are offline for no good reason other then spite.
There very well could be reasons why they'd shut them down, cost being the obvious one, but I seriously doubt that spite is one of them. :rolleyes:

Kaz has really got inside your head for some odd reason :crazy:
 
10,151
Australia
Central Coast, NSW
cyan-yoshi5
EelX 5
I absolutely understand the concern about end of life.
But frankly I can't understand the fuss about demanding an internet connection to play.
Haven't you all already have one?
It doesn't need PS+ so there's no cost.
I have an active internet connection anyway and if I wanted to take the console on a camping trip (I don't) I could just connect it to my phone's hotspot.
It's not going to be bandwidth demanding exactly...
It's not as easy or simple as "everyone can already do it"

For starters not everyone has decent internet especially here in Australia where a lot us have notoriously bad internet. My internet has been rather terrible since we got back into lockdown and everyone at home is using it. For my Switch I have to keep initially connecting it right next to the router. I can't do that with a PS5 or PS4. I have mates who just moved into new places for work and they don't even have internet boxes.

As for phone hotspots, Phones take data and I don't want to use it on a video game just to save. I don't go out and buy unlimited data, just enough to get me by.

If the internet goes off, I still need something to pass the time until I get a new one or it comes back and having GT7 not be available in single player because I can't save will be a huge annoyance.

I can only see the logical reasoning being to prevent piracy/cheating but even then there are solutions around it without annoying potential customers
 
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450
Croatia
Croatia
NekoPuffer_PPP
For my Switch I have to keep initially connecting it right next to the router. I can't do that with a PS5 or PS4.
No stores in your area sell 10+ meter long ethernet cables? It's how I connected my mom's TV and computer on the other end of the apartment to the router in my room. The doors have a small gap big enough for cables (carpet clearance) so it's easy enough to connect everything with a long enough cable...

You don't need great internet quality to save progress. I made do just fine with 30mbps or less back when I first got internet...
 
10,151
Australia
Central Coast, NSW
cyan-yoshi5
EelX 5
No stores in your area sell 10+ meter long ethernet cables? It's how I connected my mom's TV and computer on the other end of the apartment to the router in my room. The doors have a small gap big enough for cables (carpet clearance) so it's easy enough to connect everything with a long enough cable...

You don't need great internet quality to save progress. I made do just fine with 30mbps or less back when I first got internet...
Probably do however my room is the floor about the internet box. But even if it wasn't and I could, I'm not going to do that just to play a game for single player.
 

fordlaser

Premium
7,432
Australia
Adelaide
fordlaser777
Offline gamesaves could open the door to save cheats like Cyberpunk supposedly has (if YouTube is to be believed). We've all seen how that turned out in GT5. So I can't sign the petitiion, plus if my internet is out, I have bigger problems. But good luck all the same. I will say I'd be impressed if Sony/PD even mentioned this request in a public manner.


Jerome
Agree. It would open the door for hacks if GT7 had an offline save, as you said look what happen to GT5.

It should be have an offline save once the server goes down for GT Sport, but who is going to play GT Sport once GT7 comes out ?.
 
450
Croatia
Croatia
NekoPuffer_PPP
Probably do however my room is the floor about the internet box. But even if it wasn't and I could, I'm not going to do that just to play a game for single player.
Floor above? It's not a house? I'm sure there's a way to route a cable through...

If you're not gonna do that to play a game you want to play, it's not really the game's fault...

You say your connection is bad but WiFi is always bad...so you could have a wired connection to the internet but you're not putting in the effort for it because...it's easier to just say you have bad internet?... Eh? Come on, don't be like that.

There are 3rd-party routers with stronger signal transmission you could get instead, but a cable is the cheaper and more stable option.
 
10,151
Australia
Central Coast, NSW
cyan-yoshi5
EelX 5
Floor above? It's not a house? I'm sure there's a way to route a cable through...

If you're not gonna do that to play a game you want to play, it's not really the game's fault...

You say your connection is bad but WiFi is always bad...so you could have a wired connection to the internet but you're not putting in the effort for it because...it's easier to just say you have bad internet?... Eh? Come on, don't be like that.

There are 3rd-party routers with stronger signal transmission you could get instead, but a cable is the cheaper and more stable option.
It's a small multi-story house. It's more tall than it is long. Routing a cable across stairs sounds like a massive trip hazard

Not really the fact It's easier to say you have bad internet. It's more why, when I can just play an alternative racing game that won't require me to use internet to do something as simple as save data, I don't get shut out of a single player campaign when online hits the fan. I'd only justify getting a cable or 3rd party router if there was a point outside of needing to save single player games on my home console games but at the moment there is none for me.
 
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MisterWaffles

Ferrari Shill
Premium
5,576
Canada
Ottawa
Pyano1132
I'm not saying GT7 being online only is good or bad, but here's what I think.

If the post-launch support for GT7 is anything like what it was for Sport, you're going to want an internet connection to go along with this game for sure. Not to mention if all the community features carry over from Sport, you'd be missing out on a lot without one.

When it comes to issues like bad connections or stuff like that, I don't have amazing internet and I think connection issues that bricked the game were a problem for me like once or twice while playing Sport for four years. So I'd say the amount of issues I had were negligible.

But yeah with that said, I definitely do support offline saves after the lifecycle of the game is over. We'll see how they handle Sport but I don't see anyone wanting to revisit it once GT7 comes out with all that game's content and a ton more.
 
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319
Australia
Melbourne
Nicky-Boy_7
If PD implemented offline saves once peeps are no longer looking to buy it (post-life / after a new iteration), there'd be no losers except for those (like me) who'd prefer the option from the get-go.
 

fordlaser

Premium
7,432
Australia
Adelaide
fordlaser777
Ultimately, when I deployed I could only play single player offline games. Luckily GT Sport wasn't one of those games at the time, but those who are now and in the future are doomed because of features like this. GT7 should have a significant campaign presence, and should encourage offline play.
If there is offline play for GT7, well it going to turn out the same way as GT5 with hack cars etc, and do you want this to happen in GT7 ?. Online save is the only way to stop people from hacking their save game.
I don't like the idea of just having a online save, but if it stops people from hacking in a GT7 game, well I am ok with that.
 

MaxAttack

TPC's Resident Mad Bloke
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Put quite simply; tough luck.

PD is under no obligation to provide the game to you exactly as you perfectly envision it. They are under obligation to protect their IP as it's their bottom line, and they are limited by the realities of technology, the market and reality in general.

It's fine to be annoyed over this, the reasons are valid, but you must recognise you are incapable of affecting change over this. Everyone involved had their hands metaphorically tied months before anyone would have any chance to argue. This is simply the reality of gaming.

You agree to how the product is going to be, how its longevity will be handled, when you make the purchase. Making, or not making the purchase, is the absolute limit of your power with regards to subjecting yourself to potential server shutdown in the future. At no point has PD or Sony tried to deceive you into buying a product by telling you it will last forever when it won't. At no point were you promised a game with offline saving. Quite frankly, at this point, expecting such shows a very limited understanding of the landscape in the game development world.
 
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TonyJZX

(Banned)
3,945
Australia
Australia
This is GT Sport on PS5. It has the same save structure.

PD will say its to provide information security ie. no save slash credit hax.
 
10,151
Australia
Central Coast, NSW
cyan-yoshi5
EelX 5
If there is offline play for GT7, well it going to turn out the same way as GT5 with hack cars etc, and do you want this to happen in GT7 ?. Online save is the only way to stop people from hacking their save game.
I don't like the idea of just having a online save, but if it stops people from hacking in a GT7 game, well I am ok with that.
Unless they do it online in competitive, I don't really care if people hack or not and even then competitive online can track whether or not the cars have the legal stats, Pokemon does this to stop Pokemon having illegitimate stats and movepools. Sure they weren't earned legitimately but helicoptering over that is over excessive.
 
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260
Indonesia
Bikini Bottom
FueledByMisery
SomeRandomAce
Put quite simply; tough luck.

PD is under no obligation to provide the game to you exactly as you perfectly envision it. They are under obligation to protect their IP as it's their bottom line, and they are limited by the realities of technology, the market and reality in general.

It's fine to be annoyed over this, the reasons are valid, but you must recognise you are incapable of affecting change over this. Everyone involved had their hands metaphorically tied months before anyone would have any chance to argue. This is simply the reality of gaming.

You agree to how the product is going to be, how its longevity will be handled, when you make the purchase. Making, or not making the purchase, is the absolute limit of your power with regards to subjecting yourself to potential server shutdown in the future. At no point has PD or Sony tried to deceive you into buying a product by telling you it will last forever when it won't. At no point were you promised a game with offline saving. Quite frankly, at this point, expecting such shows a very limited understanding of the landscape in the game development world.
Sony reversed their course on HFW PS5 version upgrade pricing due to widespread backlash, surely the same might be happening on GT7 and its always-online requirements?

Granted that they aren't always doing their best when it comes to communicating and listening to their fans anyway.
 
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MaxAttack

TPC's Resident Mad Bloke
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Sony reversed their course on HFW PS5 version upgrade pricing due to widespread backlash, surely the same might be happening on GT7 and its always-online requirements?

Granted that they aren't always doing their best when it comes to communicating and listening to their fans anyway.
There's quite some difference between outrage at an extra, completely extraneous cost being put on the product, and outrage over a part of the game's function that, whilst not ideal for some, is an essential part of it being a working game in today's landscape.
 
4,070
Sweden
Ulricehamn
Besides, GT6 had offline saves and no hacking. So they can clearly manage to prevent it.
GT6 was made.fornthenPS2 right? They didn't use a complex OS to control the games, they just loaded what was put in the slot.
So anti pirating was build in to the game, not the console
The PS4 and the PS5 are different, they are in reality a PC made to run specific games. So the anti pirating is in the consoles contact with the server, the developer/publisher can control that, but not the console
So, if you want a GT game that can do offline play, get GT6.
 
39,029
I'm quite sure that GT6 was in fact a Playstation 3 game...









Which is irrelevant anyway, because if the only way that PD can think to keep people hacking game saves is by completely locking down all access to them unless you are connected to PSN, I think the failure occurred on their part long ago.




a part of the game's function that, whilst not ideal for some, is an essential part of it being a working game in today's landscape.
How does one figure that, pray tell?
 
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20,679
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
GT6 was made.fornthenPS2 right? They didn't use a complex OS to control the games, they just loaded what was put in the slot.
So anti pirating was build in to the game, not the console
The PS4 and the PS5 are different, they are in reality a PC made to run specific games. So the anti pirating is in the consoles contact with the server, the developer/publisher can control that, but not the console
So, if you want a GT game that can do offline play, get GT6.
It was a PS3 game and saves worked in the same way as PS4 and PS5, with the same core OS.

It really shouldn't be too hard for them to program the saves so that offline is a basic load/save but whenever you actually do play online some checks are performed server side to verify the integrity of the save.

Locking the whole game to online saves only just strikes me as the laziest approach, and is also done so they can monitor game usage. Which is fair enough but again, there are other ways to do that.
 

MaxAttack

TPC's Resident Mad Bloke
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How does one figure that, pray tell?
Anecdotally, admittedly - it seems self evident to me any less messy way of dealing with the problem involves too much work or money, considering this seems to be an industry standard at this point. Crying for an alternative just reads as urinating into the wind, from where I sit.
 
260
Indonesia
Bikini Bottom
FueledByMisery
SomeRandomAce
No, we wouldn't want people cheating and exploiting bugs would we? That would be terrible.

Besides, GT6 had offline saves and no hacking. So they can clearly manage to prevent it.
This, there aren't any garage/save editor for the GT6 AFAIK, at least until EOL of its online service

Kinda surprising considering how PS3 can be easily jailbroken back then, unlike the nigh impenetrable PS4 (which has more complicated and unstable jailbreaking process that even forces you to play offline with older firmware version) and PS5.
 

FPV MIC

Premium
3,141
Australia
Australia
GT-MIC
No, we wouldn't want people cheating and exploiting bugs would we? That would be terrible.

Besides, GT6 had offline saves and no hacking. So they can clearly manage to prevent it.
But there were hackers in GT6. Time Trials were compromised many, many times with people running wider than normal tyres to gain a grip advantage. (If I remember correctly someone called Bruno Blak was one of the worst offenders)

Also:

There were also cars with such insane top speeds that the hackers could barely keep them on track (while this clip is offline they too appeared in Time Trials).


Edit: I found some Time Trial video:

 
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3,879
Canada
Brandon, MB
Silver-Arrows21
Agree. It would open the door for hacks if GT7 had an offline save, as you said look what happen to GT5.
Oh yeah, I'm sure you're the expert, knowing your history with cheating for money.

Put quite simply; tough luck.

PD is under no obligation to provide the game to you exactly as you perfectly envision it. They are under obligation to protect their IP as it's their bottom line, and they are limited by the realities of technology, the market and reality in general.
PD is under no obligation to provide the game to you exactly as you perfectly envision it. They are under obligation to protect their IP as it's their bottom line, and they are limited by the realities of technology, the market and reality in general.
This is simply the reality of gaming.
lmfao

Once more, there is a game that blows every single justification for always online in racing games out of the water: Forza Horizon 4. Maybe just as inter-connected as GTS is, probably a tad more. But one can very easily turn off the online capabilities (and, when doing stuff like Eliminator and Super7, is turned off to begin with when you return to free roam, meaning one has to go into the pause menu and get back into an online free roam lobby, which is somewhat annoying but whatever) and when it's all said and done, when the servers get turned off, one can very easily pick up the game and play it without needing to be online. Sure, you lose out on stuff like the Auction House, Forzathon Live and the two modes mentioned above, but one can very easily play the game, completely offline. And your saves aren't backloaded onto a server so you lose partial or even complete amounts of data when the online save data doesn't match the offline one.

So yeah. If Playground can do it, why can't Polyphony? What actual point is there to having saves mostly dealt with an outside server instead of local, when any and all forms of cheating are effectively moot considering the locked down nature of PS4 and PS5 architecture? Besides, 99% of the problems with online racing in GTS are related solely to bad racecraft and etiquette, not some jabroni who decided to make a hybrid out of a N class car in the third daily race of the week.

So yeah. I'd like to see an actual justification for not even having the ability to save games locally, and why it's apparently the 'reality of gaming' that GTS, and likely GT7, will leave you only able to do one off Arcade races if the servers are down at launch (very possible, considering how fickle and how much of a crush of people there's going to be at launch) or after end of life support, and not even have the ability to use Scapes when they're effectively high quality PNG's you photoshop a car over, and have to download in order to use the vast majority of them. There is some absolutely smooth-brained **** in this thread.
 
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