Philly's car thread | Time for new tires - Post #128

[Philly]

So it looks like the vacuum gremlin from last year has been solved, but we've stumbled on something else for this year. Since I've come back from college, the car has been going through oil rather quickly. I know that German turbocharged engines tend to use a lot more oil than other engines, but we're talking about going from the top to the bottom of the recommended zone on the stick in two tanks of gas (we're running synthetic, supposed to be changed every 7,500 miles I believe). Dad says the say I drive it may have something to do with it, due to more turbo use and mom has blamed me for the whole thing. This raises a few questions.

Rising gas prices and me not wanting to put too much extra wear on the engine mean that I'm not really driving it that hard most of the time. Why would it be happening that fast? I also had the car all summer last year. Why didn't we have this problem then, when I was driving it harder than I am now? And, the car is a performance machine. Shouldn't it be built to be run harder than normal?

This may have popped up when I was home for spring break, but the car has been on an oil study by VW. Basically, they're trying to figure out what's wrong with it and making sure we bring it in whenever it's low, so I can't just keep filling it up whenever it's low. And with mom driving it very slowly, we haven't had any of these problems.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Getting any smoke from the exhaust?

Turbo seal? Bad valve seal?

How's the car running otherwise?

I bet 5 interweb dollarz that it's the turbo.

 

[Gil]

Yo Rumple!!
How long has it been on the synthetic oil?
If a long time, is this particular syntetic a new blend?

I switched my high mileage Camry from a synthetic blend to full synthetic, and it started leaking oil like there was no tomorrow.

Is there evidence of it leaking?

If not, the engine is "burning" it.

How are the piston rings? the valvetrain?

 

[Philly]

I haven't looked at anything in the engine. I might see if VW can when I take it in to them to get it topped off.

The car recommends synthetic on the manual, so I assume it's been on it from the factory. We've had it on synthetic since we bought it.

It hasn't been leaking, and the only smoke I notice is the usual cloud when I put my foot into it. As far as running fine, I haven't noticed any difference in performance, although it does sound just a little funny, but that could very well be because I have been away from the car all this year and GTIs sound a little different when they run.

I talked to dad about it again and he said he thinks the car is just worn out.

 

[socomplayer2]

Have you put low octane gas in it?

 

[Philly]

Have you put low octane gas in it?

As far as I know, we're running only premium in it. Mom is the only other one who fills the tank and I think she knows that the car should be running premium. So no low octane gas.

 

[socomplayer2]

Just checking because the dealer and the handbook say at lowest put 91 in but preferably 93.

 

[1X83Z]

I had that problem - a quart every couple tanks of gas. The oil pan was cracked. Turns out it is the lowest thing on the front of the car and a taking a hard bump too fast and thus scraping the underbody will crack it. $700 to fix. Good luck!

 

[Turbo Lag]

Have you asked this place yet? I think they would know the answers...

 

[Philly]

So I just spent some time over at VWVortex, and it seems like this is a very common problem with the 2.0T (sorry, socomplayer2). Here's what I gathered:

There area few possible causes: A) Not driving it hard for long periods causes everything to clog up. B) There is a problem in the PVC piping causing a leak. C) There are tolerance issues with the engine.

The solution: Apparently VW says that 1 qt./1000 mi is normal, despite calling for an oil change every 10,000 miles to replace the 5 qt. tank . The disturbing thing is that VW just puts all the cars on a study and doesn't do anything to fix it in any cases.

Any ideas? It seems that people are having a very hard time to get VW to take any responsibility of the issue and a lot of them are defecting to Toyota or Honda. Anything I can say to them that might get me a new engine/car?

 

[Gil]

Any ideas? It seems that people are having a very hard time to get VW to take any responsibility of the issue and a lot of them are defecting to Toyota or Honda. Anything I can say to them that might get me a new engine/car?

The only thing that comes to mind is, "Here's my old car and a cashier's check for a great deal of money. I'd like the bue one over there in the corner."

 

[Keef]

A quart every thousand miles? That's getting into rotary territory, bub. I'd say in this case "normal" means "they're all broken". Seriously, only people with rotaries, big turbo Nissans and us Honda guys have to roll around with an extra quart in the trunk.

 

[JCE]

A quart every thousand miles? That's getting into rotary territory, bub. I'd say in this case "normal" means "they're all broken". Seriously, only people with rotaries, big turbo Nissans and us Honda guys have to roll around with an extra quart in the trunk.

I beg to differ... Look top right.

 

[YSSMAN]

A quart every thousand miles? That's getting into rotary territory, bub.

Nah, thats completely normal on the old 1.8T as well. Odd, certainly, but well within what they say is good. Thing is, if its a really common issue with every single GTI, eventually they'll come up with something. I recall them replacing quite a few early 1.8Ts due to sludge and other issues...

 

[Keef]

Did they decide the oil needed to be spent to lubricate something better like Honda did? Maybe the turbo consumes it? There must be a typical cause for it.

 

[Philly]

Interesting thing about the 1.8T is that a lot of the guys were saying that they liked it because they never had any problems with the 1.8 using oil. I haven't looked into that at all though.

I don't think it's the way the engine was designed though. It seems that this is just a common problem and isn't common among all engines, driven hard or easily.

Oh, and some of the VWVortex users were reporting a quart every 500 miles and VW just told them to head back to the dealer to keep up with the "study."

 

[Pupik]

So I just spent some time over at VWVortex, and it seems like this is a very common problem with the 2.0T

Yes, we see this widespread issue of oil consumption on the 2.0T Audis as well (2006-2008). It is more common on the A4s compared to the A3s, for some reason. The techs tell em they never see it on the old 1.8T, unless there was a serious problem.

There area few possible causes: A) Not driving it hard for long periods causes everything to clog up. B) There is a problem in the PVC piping causing a leak. C) There are tolerance issues with the engine.

Apparently, the techs tell me (and from my experience in the service drive), that the harder you drive the car, the less that this seems occur. The younger crowd typically doesn't have this problem, but older drivers tend to (which is usually the opposite of Audi problems!). But we've seen cars with only 1000-2000 miles on them become a quart (or even two) low, or only a few thousand after the first oil change. The problem seems to right itself around 20,000 miles, so there is a potential that it goes away as the engine breaks-in a lot more.

The 2.0T motor also tends to leak occasionally, typically because the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) tubing will form a small crack, causing an oil leak. The tubing used to be made of metal, one of them has been replaced with hard plastic in recent years. There's a lot of heat going though the PCV valve due high pressures and temperatures, so why VW decided on this is a question mark. Also, there is a small gasket that gets replaced as a precaution when the PCV tube is found to be culprit to an oil leak or check engine light on.

The techs tell me that the re-design of the motor meant a smaller tolerance of the oil passageways, causing much higher temperatures and thus, oil consumption. Even if the PCV valve is replaced, the oil consumption problem returns. There is no fix at this time, although the parts department tell me that the Audi warranty test center takes back a lot of the faulty PCV tubes for inspection.

The solution: Apparently VW says that 1 qt./1000 mi is normal, despite calling for an oil change every 10,000 miles to replace the 5 qt. tank . The disturbing thing is that VW just puts all the cars on a study and doesn't do anything to fix it in any cases.

I'm not going to blow smoke up your tailpipe. It's a lame excuse; many Audi customers are seemingly okay with a few mechanical quirks that would have Lexus owners wailing and gnashing teeth at me.

Any ideas? ... Anything I can say to them that might get me a new engine/car?

Find out what the lemon laws are for your state.

In Florida, it's three times with no lasting fix in the first year of ownership, or two occurrences that total 30 days of repair/down-time that are for a related problem, get you started down the road to arbitration or a buy-back. Arbitration can be avoided when you buy another of their products, and usually creates less mess and time, but you have your choices at that point.

The trouble with the oil leaks is that the wording of lemon laws tends to specifically state that the car must be rendered un-drivable, so it doesn't apply to trim and noise issues that have no affect on the performance of the car itself, with rare exceptions for paint/body issues that can't be fixed.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm not going to blow smoke up your tailpipe. It's a lame excuse; many Audi customers are seemingly okay with a few mechanical quirks that would have Lexus owners wailing and gnashing teeth at me.

Thats what I tell every single person who buys a VW product... Know what you're getting into before you do it.

It doesn't sound as though its a major problem, but for warranty's sake while you still have it (?), maybe you should bring the car in and ask them to check those parts since you know that they are problem areas... Or, if you know where they are, give them a look yourself?

 

[Philly]

In response to Pupik's post:

Is there a reason that the problem should occur when I'm driving the car harder but not when mom is driving it lightly? That kind of seems to go a bit against what everyone else has said about not driving hard makes it clog up. Although lately I've been trying to drive pretty easily due to the gas price situation. Maybe I'll try working the car a little harder to see what happens. Another interesting thing is that we started seeing this at ~35,000 miles, pretty well outside what I saw for the reported miles for the other cases. Maybe the car experienced that problem before we bought it at ~22,000 miles and the PCV tubing was repaired and it has just gone bad again?

Should I ask my mechanics to take a look at the PCV tubing to see if that is the problem I'm experiencing?

The fact that they don't have a solution but they are working on it (I assume?) sounds like a pretty convincing argument to go with the extended warranty and wait it out to see if they come up with something.

I certainly would rather have this car with everything but reliability than, say, a Lexus or Honda with everything but the performance and cool of the GTI. It's just a little worrisome that the VWVortex seemed to get a resounding "meh" from VW instead of something more assuring.

As for Lemon Laws, it looks like this won't be covered because the vehicle is still drivable and safe. And I'm guessing it wouldn't be worth it to let the oil run dry and have the engine seize up to make it undrivable.

 

[niky]

If it's drinking oil and it passes the compression test and the leakdown test and the turbo isn't drinking it up... I wouldn't worry about it. Some engines just do.

My Mazda is far from being a Rotary, but it drinks at least a quart between oil changes, particularly if it's driven hard. And it actually passes leakdown. Most people blame the PCV, but my intake isn't coated in oil. Near as I can figure, this engine just runs so hot it drinks oil. That it does so more in traffic and on the dyno than on the racetrack indicates that it's possibly just doing this due to heat soak.

Lots of new engines... new performance engines, that is... are like that. The issue has even been reported for Miatas. Drinking a little oil here and there keeps them from getting too hot, I guess.

 

[Pupik]

Is there a reason that the problem should occur when I'm driving the car harder but not when mom is driving it lightly? That kind of seems to go a bit against what everyone else has said about not driving hard makes it clog up. Although lately I've been trying to drive pretty easily due to the gas price situation.

Then your car is possessed! No, its just that VW doesn't know what to do yet, or you have a unique issue with it.

Another interesting thing is that we started seeing this at ~35,000 miles, pretty well outside what I saw for the reported miles for the other cases. Maybe the car experienced that problem before we bought it at ~22,000 miles and the PCV tubing was repaired and it has just gone bad again?

Should I ask my mechanics to take a look at the PCV tubing to see if that is the problem I'm experiencing?

The fact that they don't have a solution but they are working on it (I assume?) sounds like a pretty convincing argument to go with the extended warranty and wait it out to see if they come up with something.

I assumed you had a new car with low mileage, although that doesn't actually matter. Still, if it's in warranty, tell the service consultant that you want it checked completely for leaks and the oil consumption problem. Tell them to test drive it for several miles, and have them record all the oil top-offs, for your (and their) records. Insist they record it in the computer, so you have something to go to bat with if worse comes to worse.

If you think that one advisor is shrugging your concerns aside, find another one, or better yet, talk to the service manager. Have a meeting with them, if you feel your issues aren't resolved. They want customer satisfaction, but in return, you have to understand how much it sucks to be a service manager when there is no fix for your car (so be reasonable on the survey!). You'll get slightly better attention to your car if the manager is notified, if your car is returning for the same issue.

If the manager is attentive enough (like I was), you get called back at arrange an appointment the moment there is a campaign, recall, hot-fix, or service bulletin to repair things. Keep in mind, that sometimes there is a backorder of parts if it is a common concern, so don't run to the dealer the moment someone on a forum tells you there is a fix for the oil consumption issue.

I certainly would rather have this car with everything but reliability than, say, a Lexus or Honda with everything but the performance and cool of the GTI. It's just a little worrisome that the VWVortex seemed to get a resounding "meh" from VW instead of something more assuring.

I appreciate an Audi or VW in a different way, having driven them; and some people have no problems, and others get tons of issues. All cars can be that way.

As for Lemon Laws, it looks like this won't be covered because the vehicle is still drivable and safe. And I'm guessing it wouldn't be worth it to let the oil run dry and have the engine seize up to make it un-drivable.

Don't try to make the car un-drivable! VW's Warranty Test Center is like CSI and The New Detectives put together, from my experience. VW is flaky on goodwill warranty, so don't expect miracles the moment your car is one mile out of warranty, so pushing your luck is a terrible idea.

Just keep informing VW and the dealer(s) about your problems; just don't be a jerk about it. If the car is running fine, then it could really be the way it is. I have seen only one 2.0T engine hand-grenade, and that was because the owner admitted he missed a few shifts too many times.

VW wants to keep a customer, just like any brand does. Play this to your advantage, but be fair in return. That's my best advice. Don't threaten them with lawsuits or ask for a Phaeton in return, they'll laugh you out of the shop. Be remembered at the dealership for having concerns, not issues, if you know what I mean.

 

[Philly]

That certainly is comforting knowing that there isn't a fix for the problem yet. That's certainly understandable as long as the haven't done something like realize that the cost to fix is just too high and say that to avoid the costly fix.

Giving that car up, even for another new GTI would be very hard for me. I quite like mine better with the window tint, those wheels and the feel of the steering wheel buttons, all of which you can't get any more. Plus, I've really fallen in love with THAT machine, being a VW, a GTI and my first car and all.

 

[buickgnx88]

Bah, the AMC 4.2 Straight-sixes were notorious for developing leaks, both at the rear main as well as the "belling" of the cylinders. Gonna be buying me a new engine within the next few weeks though!

 

[1X83Z]

Then your car is possessed! No, its just that VW doesn't know what to do yet, or you have a unique issue with it.


I assumed you had a new car with low mileage, although that doesn't actually matter. Still, if it's in warranty, tell the service consultant that you want it checked completely for leaks and the oil consumption problem. Tell them to test drive it for several miles, and have them record all the oil top-offs, for your (and their) records. Insist they record it in the computer, so you have something to go to bat with if worse comes to worse.

If you think that one advisor is shrugging your concerns aside, find another one, or better yet, talk to the service manager. Have a meeting with them, if you feel your issues aren't resolved. They want customer satisfaction, but in return, you have to understand how much it sucks to be a service manager when there is no fix for your car (so be reasonable on the survey!). You'll get slightly better attention to your car if the manager is notified, if your car is returning for the same issue.

If the manager is attentive enough (like I was), you get called back at arrange an appointment the moment there is a campaign, recall, hot-fix, or service bulletin to repair things. Keep in mind, that sometimes there is a backorder of parts if it is a common concern, so don't run to the dealer the moment someone on a forum tells you there is a fix for the oil consumption issue.


I appreciate an Audi or VW in a different way, having driven them; and some people have no problems, and others get tons of issues. All cars can be that way.


Don't try to make the car un-drivable! VW's Warranty Test Center is like CSI and The New Detectives put together, from my experience. VW is flaky on goodwill warranty, so don't expect miracles the moment your car is one mile out of warranty, so pushing your luck is a terrible idea.

Just keep informing VW and the dealer(s) about your problems; just don't be a jerk about it. If the car is running fine, then it could really be the way it is. I have seen only one 2.0T engine hand-grenade, and that was because the owner admitted he missed a few shifts too many times.

VW wants to keep a customer, just like any brand does. Play this to your advantage, but be fair in return. That's my best advice. Don't threaten them with lawsuits or ask for a Phaeton in return, they'll laugh you out of the shop. Be remembered at the dealership for having concerns, not issues, if you know what I mean.

Great post!!!

 

[Philly]

So I took the car in to get topped off again and they said that it looks like I'm going through about a quart every 1,500 miles. And I'm halfway through my dipstick after a week of easy driving and a week of fairly hard driving.

I also looked around VWVotrex and they had a great article about how the early model PCV things (like Pupik) mentioned and they said that the early versions of it were faulty but that there is a new version out that works much better. So next time I have to take the car in for oil (or the next oil change), I'll have them take a look at that part, and hopefully that'll fix the problem.

 

[forza2.0]

So I took the car in to get topped off again and they said that it looks like I'm going through about a quart every 1,500 miles. And I'm halfway through my dipstick after a week of easy driving and a week of fairly hard driving.

I also looked around VWVotrex and they had a great article about how the early model PCV things (like Pupik) mentioned and they said that the early versions of it were faulty but that there is a new version out that works much better. So next time I have to take the car in for oil (or the next oil change), I'll have them take a look at that part, and hopefully that'll fix the problem.

Are any of these issues related to the cams wearing?

 

[Philly]

At this point, I think it could be anything. But the PCV is a common reason for this to be happening.

 

[Philly]

I think I'll make this the thread for my car, seeing that everyone else has one somewhere. I'll be sure to get some new pictures up sometime of the car all polished up and things.

Anyway, a new update on some new problems that have arisen. (Big surprise, I know.) Yesterday I got a call from mom who is now saying that the buttons on the passenger side door for door locks and the window no longer work. Also, the auto leveling headlights that I had fixed in December are also broken again.

Volkswagen is saying that the headlights will be an easy fix. Apparently my car just needs to be rebooted. But if that isn't the case, then it should still be a warranty fix so I'm not too worried about that.

On the door electronics, I'm not sure. My sister hit a guard rail in the car a month or so back (She isn't supposed to be driving it ) and they recently had the car in the body shop again to get the everything on the right side of the vehicle fixed. From what I saw, it wasn't too hard a hit so I'm not worried about chassis issues. But that means that either the body shop messed up the door electronics (a distinct possibility, seeing that they broke my headlights last time I went there) or they just went on their own. I'm hoping it's an issue with the car because then it'll be under warranty again and it'll be fixed right. But if it is the body shop, I'm worried that they won't be able to put it together right on their second try.

I've now decided that I will not be keeping the car when graduation comes around. I don't want to keep up with the repair costs and all the time in the shop. Sorry Volkswagen, as appealing as that Polo is too, I'll have to come back to you when I can afford it.

 

[Hugo Boss]

Did you check your fuses?

If you're lucky you have your problem easily fixed...

 

[YSSMAN]

I've now decided that I will not be keeping the car when graduation comes around. I don't want to keep up with the repair costs and all the time in the shop. Sorry Volkswagen, as appealing as that Polo is too, I'll have to come back to you when I can afford it.

You'll be back. They always come back...

The door electronic problems were fairly common in the MKIV cars, but as you pointed out, it could have been due to the poor work done by that body shop. Too bad really, because it shouldn't be destroying your outlook on VWs in general.

After seeing the new Polo, I'm nearly left asking "Whats a Fiesta?"