- 100
Ok!! I just wasnt sure if it would be allowed because a source outside of GT4 was used to make it!! Now I know that no matter what, everything has to be from in-game, thanks GrumpE.
-=> Photomode Discussion & Analysis Thread. (Discuss here, not in Comp. threads) <=-
- Thread starter GrumpEone
- 77 comments
- 4,432 views
- 10,828
- Belgium
- bramturismo
Can I recieve more information on how this analyzing will go forward? Does every member of this service analyze each and every image in this thread? Or are certain members assigned to certain areas of Photomode?
- 4,387
- Lisboa
And what are the criteria for chosen images to be analysed.
Shouldn't those persons came here and ask for a deep analysis of why they're photo wasn't in the poll?
I think it would be easier than analyzing every single image that doesn't go to the poll. Some cases are too obvious.
Or, otherwise, you are the one who would like to know why?
Also, can we be mean and honest? Like saying: "To tell you the truth, I am not surprised your photo wasn't in the poll. Even a five year old could take batter photographs. It's all wrong. The car is out of focus, etc."; or do we have or should go with nice but not so honest analysis: "well, it's not a bad photograph, the colours are quite nice and I like the light and the surrounds of it (lots of compliments), but there are some minor photography mistakes, like this and that...." ???
Shouldn't those persons came here and ask for a deep analysis of why they're photo wasn't in the poll?
I think it would be easier than analyzing every single image that doesn't go to the poll. Some cases are too obvious.
Or, otherwise, you are the one who would like to know why?
Also, can we be mean and honest? Like saying: "To tell you the truth, I am not surprised your photo wasn't in the poll. Even a five year old could take batter photographs. It's all wrong. The car is out of focus, etc."; or do we have or should go with nice but not so honest analysis: "well, it's not a bad photograph, the colours are quite nice and I like the light and the surrounds of it (lots of compliments), but there are some minor photography mistakes, like this and that...." ???
- 1,915
I'm in, I don't consider myself a photography expert or anything, but I could contribute.
- 1,948
- Rochester, MI
- GrumpEone
I would say, go as in-depth as you can, analyzing every aspect that you can, in as much detail as you feel confortable with. Including pros, cons, and suggestions. Doing so in an objective manner, as a learning tool for whomever is asking.
I think the members of the service, should try and analyze as many shots as they can, specially whenever someone is asking for analysis.
We could have members just concentrating on certain Competitions, or certain aspects of photomode, that's still kinda up in the air, and needs to be a collaboration from everyone involved.
Exactly what I'm hoping for, and I hope people start coming forward subjecting themselves to that deep analysis, in order to improve their abilities.
I'm still trying to get a feel for this could become.
Actually in this case I was trying to get a feel for those who are involved, and maybe I was a little over-zealous posting 6 to be analyzed (That's what I get for trying to think before finishing my 1st coffee). I'll Edit That post, with the one I thought should have made the poll, and my shot. Trying to get an idea of the type of analysis that will be provided from each of us.
Disagreement between the analysts could be a good thing too, so we all can gain more knowledge in all aspects involved in PMC, Photography, Image-editing, etc.
I would say be brutally honest, but not insulting. It would be fine to say "I'm not surprised you didn't make the poll, the car is horribly out of focus, the color balance is off..."
Anyone can contribute, how do you think you can contribute?
Remember this thread is for the benefit of all those who are involved in Photomode. It's not like I'm going to make all the decisions concerning this thread, I'm just the one who created the thread because I saw the need for a thread like this. Everything needs to be a collaboration of those involved, I'm hoping all the Competition Hosts will be involved, as well as those who have been around here for a long time. Also in an attempt to preserve as much knowledge in PMC and the like, as we can in this thread.
Post 28 has been edited!
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- 4,387
- Lisboa
Thanks for the clarifications Grump.
Of course, I would never insult anyone (it's against the AUP)
Another issue, can we for example, issue a photograph that didn't made into the poll and compare to one that is on the poll, but looks inferior.
Let's say, we have shots "a" "b" "c" "d" "e", only "a" "b" "c" got to the poll. Can I bring shot "e" to here, stating my doubt, making my own analysis and compare to shot "b", that I think it didn't deserved to be on the poll?
I don't want to cause any trouble with any theme chooser, but sometimes, I see (in my eyes) inferior, edited shots getting into poll, and slightly unedited, but superior shots, staying on shore.
Of course, I would never insult anyone (it's against the AUP)
Another issue, can we for example, issue a photograph that didn't made into the poll and compare to one that is on the poll, but looks inferior.
Let's say, we have shots "a" "b" "c" "d" "e", only "a" "b" "c" got to the poll. Can I bring shot "e" to here, stating my doubt, making my own analysis and compare to shot "b", that I think it didn't deserved to be on the poll?
I don't want to cause any trouble with any theme chooser, but sometimes, I see (in my eyes) inferior, edited shots getting into poll, and slightly unedited, but superior shots, staying on shore.
- 1,948
- Rochester, MI
- GrumpEone
Yes, that would be acceptable maybe through your analysis, the theme chooser will learn something; or maybe the theme chooser will respond to your analysis, and point-out something you may have missed, and you may learn something.
Comparing shots would be good too, but the key is to do it after the poll, as not to sway a poll in-progress.
EDIT: I updated the 1st post listing everyone involved, and linking their names to their profiles, as well as the 5 competitions' hosts.
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- 4,387
- Lisboa
^^Yes, I am just waiting for the theme.
Grump, I am clarified. So, let’s start, shall we.
Jetboy entry:
I am really not surprised it didn’t go to the poll.
Firstly, I don’t know if it was a compression problem, but the car seem to have lost some definition. There are some weird pixilations in the photograph, like when you save a .jpeg in poor or medium quality mode.
Secondly, I think the camera it’s too zoomed in the car, not leaving too much room to get a decent framing and overall angle and leaving the car too on the bottom. The bottom of one of the front wheels is almost cropped out of the frame, which is quite bad.
Unfortunely, there’s nothing I can say positive about this photograph, and I have to say, for me, it was one of the weakest entries in that competition week.
GrumpEone entry:
In terms of editing, it’s quite a step up, the car is overall, quite clean and it has some kind of shape. It also shows some concern on working the car and door lines, which is praiseworthy, though, some thick dodge/highlight in the limit of the door line would made the car have even more shape.
Now, the bad stuff? You really need to calibrate your monitor screen. It’s not just this photo, but all your photos look a bit washed out, with no significant contrast levels. This photograph, for example, is all in the grey scale of things, not being black and white. The highlights are not as white as they should be and the shadows are not as dark as they should. I can even see the pixilation form of the tire itself.
Also, it’s only the car and nothing else. No background “scenery”, no nothing, only the car in the frame and nothing else, which in some photographs doesn’t quite mix so well. I don't mean like, having a big scenery behind, but something beside the car would be quite nice
As for the ugly stuff, I would say, leave the mechanic adjustments to the track. I mean, the front of the car is too low compared to the back, and that kind of makes the photo a bit weird.
_____
Now that the 2.0 poll closed, I would like to read some srutinization of these photographs from the same week and competition than those presented by GrumpEone.
My doubt is, how did drvac photo, that is superior to speeddemon’s photo, didn’t get into the poll. I mean drvac photo is absolutely awesome, and has allot of potential edited. The car itself looks quite clean and the reflections are great, especially in the front window, where they seem absolutely perfect. Also, the tones are fresh and the angle of the shot is very eye catching.
In addition, speedemons entry is edited (badly edited, I may add). I mean, the car is blurred, has no definition, the door and overall car line are just left unedited; it seems quite rushed if you ask me. The only thing good about it is, not only the idea behind, but the background looks quite good, though, the car degrades it, in my opinion.
I think ideas are good, but the final execution is more important. But let me hear what you guys think about these two.
Grump, I am clarified. So, let’s start, shall we.
Jetboy entry:
I am really not surprised it didn’t go to the poll.
Firstly, I don’t know if it was a compression problem, but the car seem to have lost some definition. There are some weird pixilations in the photograph, like when you save a .jpeg in poor or medium quality mode.
Secondly, I think the camera it’s too zoomed in the car, not leaving too much room to get a decent framing and overall angle and leaving the car too on the bottom. The bottom of one of the front wheels is almost cropped out of the frame, which is quite bad.
Unfortunely, there’s nothing I can say positive about this photograph, and I have to say, for me, it was one of the weakest entries in that competition week.
GrumpEone entry:
In terms of editing, it’s quite a step up, the car is overall, quite clean and it has some kind of shape. It also shows some concern on working the car and door lines, which is praiseworthy, though, some thick dodge/highlight in the limit of the door line would made the car have even more shape.
Now, the bad stuff? You really need to calibrate your monitor screen. It’s not just this photo, but all your photos look a bit washed out, with no significant contrast levels. This photograph, for example, is all in the grey scale of things, not being black and white. The highlights are not as white as they should be and the shadows are not as dark as they should. I can even see the pixilation form of the tire itself.
Also, it’s only the car and nothing else. No background “scenery”, no nothing, only the car in the frame and nothing else, which in some photographs doesn’t quite mix so well. I don't mean like, having a big scenery behind, but something beside the car would be quite nice
As for the ugly stuff, I would say, leave the mechanic adjustments to the track. I mean, the front of the car is too low compared to the back, and that kind of makes the photo a bit weird.
_____
Now that the 2.0 poll closed, I would like to read some srutinization of these photographs from the same week and competition than those presented by GrumpEone.
My doubt is, how did drvac photo, that is superior to speeddemon’s photo, didn’t get into the poll. I mean drvac photo is absolutely awesome, and has allot of potential edited. The car itself looks quite clean and the reflections are great, especially in the front window, where they seem absolutely perfect. Also, the tones are fresh and the angle of the shot is very eye catching.
In addition, speedemons entry is edited (badly edited, I may add). I mean, the car is blurred, has no definition, the door and overall car line are just left unedited; it seems quite rushed if you ask me. The only thing good about it is, not only the idea behind, but the background looks quite good, though, the car degrades it, in my opinion.
I think ideas are good, but the final execution is more important. But let me hear what you guys think about these two.
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- 1,948
- Rochester, MI
- GrumpEone
^^
Exactly what I was hoping for, excellent analysis. I will elaborate further tomorrow, with my umm, counter-analysis. Gotta start getting ready for the festivities of the holiday, just popped in to see what going on. Again well done.
Merry Christmas or equivalent holiday, to all!!
Exactly what I was hoping for, excellent analysis. I will elaborate further tomorrow, with my umm, counter-analysis. Gotta start getting ready for the festivities of the holiday, just popped in to see what going on. Again well done.
Merry Christmas or equivalent holiday, to all!!
- 9,738
Thanks! 👍
Nicknamealguem
I have to echo what you said. The picture is not of good quality overall and the car is at a bad position. The front tyre is almost cropped off, the angle is not good and it was zoomed in to much into the shot.
Nicknamealguem
What you say is right, but I can't really echo what you say about his screen calibration. Everything looks fine here.
Anyways, what really bugs me is that too much paint was filled in into the door lines. The car looks a bit cartoonish, which is a bad thing.Nichnamealguem
Are you reading my mind?
If I had to choose which of these two shots has to go to the poll, it would be drvac's shot. The quality is overall good, if not very good and the car was well positioned. The camera is angle is good and the car shows some great reflections.speedemon08's shot seems to berushed and unfinished. There are a lot of jaggies shown on the car and the car itself isn't well composed. The door lines were left untouched, which underlines the fact that everything was rushed. The background looks nice, but the colours don't fit to the ones of the car.
- 1,948
- Rochester, MI
- GrumpEone
My first con on the shot would be it's small full-size. On the overall, the car has a nice line, and good reflections, the eye seems to move smoothly through the shot. I think the GT watermark gets in the way, and the front fender could have been touched-up a little better. Despite some of the non-touched-up areas, I think the shot has a good feel to it, although that is mostly due to a good car choice, and a relatively easy car to work with. I think the spoiler should have been removed before the shot, I would have liked to see more of the top, raising the camera viewing more of a downward angle may have looked better, although it would have moved most of the reflections off of the car. I think the zoomed in look works for this theme, since the focus should be on the car for salon show, the background is almost irrelevant due to the theme. The more I study the car, the less strong the entry is, in my mind.
Now I'm not going to completely tear apart my own shot, because Nicknamealguem did an excellent job of that in his analysis, which is all valid imo. First I would like know how my shot looks "washed-out", is it mainly because I dislike the over-contrasted look, as it accentuates the whiter light, it drastically reduces the color in the darker areas of the shot. The lack of scenery/background was by design, because the theme "Salon Show" the focus should be entirely on the car, when you go to a show do you really focus on the backgrounds or the car itself. Again if this was open-edit, I would have created a better background to work with, more oriented to the car's presentation. The ride height adjustments were done specifically to capture some of the reflections that I would have lost at that camera height and angle I wanted to use, if left it stock the lighting would have changed to something less presentable. I noticed after submitting my changed entry, the pixelation and lack of touch-up on the tires, and the grille didn't jump-out like the original.
Please elaborate on the "washed-out" effect, and how I can eliminate this in the future, because I honestly don't see it, nor did Nenad. If someone else notices this please speak up, as I still want to put the best shots I can into these competitions.
Drvac's entry was very good, and I agree should have probably made the poll. The reflections are exquisite and very well presented, the touch-up is well done there is only one very minor spot in the rear that was missed. I think the colors are pretty brilliant. The rims don't work all that well with the car. Also I think the car should have been zoomed in further, since per the theme the focus should be wholly on the car, specially because the color is so brilliant the eye doesn't really move through the shot to the background, just kinda stays focused on the subject. All and all a fabulous entry, a good car choice, and excellent execution.
Speedemon08's shot was excellent in concept, and far worse in execution. I really like the color, came out with a nice copper-ish gold color. I question a motion shot for this theme though, I guess he took the salon show on the road. There are many un-touched jaggies all over the car, and the over done rim blur is interesting, but not very realistic, or presentable. I think with this shot far more of the details could have been easily touched-up, and seems obviously rushed. I think this shot made the poll out of it's uniqueness of concept and color, and nothing more. I would love to see this shot completed and/or re-worked.
Sorry if my analyzation of the shot wasn't as good as it could be, but I'm a little hung-over today, it feels like my brain is trying to escape. (I keep hitting Escape, but I'm still here... my keyboard must be broken...lol)
- 4,387
- Lisboa
Forget about the theme a little. You’re following it as long as you do some of the requirements.
To tell you the truth, I never seen a photograph of car shows, where in the photograph, there is only the car, and almost nothing more. There is always some background behind, some space between car and canvas, unless, you are just taking a photo of a part of the car (like a headlight, a rim, etc.).
You don’t need to go very far, just take a look at TVR_FF photo gallery.
Also, I can focus in the car and have a background (which I think it's essential, as to not "saturate" so much the photograph); so, I don’t really understand your question.
As for the “washed-out” effect, I took the liberty of just adjusting the brightness and contrast and some of the gamma of it.
I can tell you, it’s not my monitor, as I have done and do for time to time, plenty of tests to calibrate it, which is, one, if not the most important step for people who edit photographs in Photoshop and so on.
I said it’s “washed-out” because it looks like a picture that was washed and lost some of the definition. It’s easily corrected by simply adjusting the levels or brightness and contrast, and some gamma.
Here is the result:
V.S. 
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- 644
I'll happily chime in every now and again to tell you whats good and whats not.
However I can't tell you how to make it good.
Can also do photography stuff and shot composition, although I think that goes under shot analysis...
With the Aston above my post, the shot on the left looks near unedited. It's very definition-less, and just sort-of there. The shot on the right looks much "brighter" and makes the car stand out more from the background. This in turn makes it a more appealing shot to the eye.
Also, on the original shot composition, I would've picked a different colour car. The colour is too close to the walls, and that already makes your job a whole lot more difficult. As such, everything blends together in the eye. This is not what you want.
The shot on the right suffers the same problem, but the extra gamma and contrast make it jump out more from the walls, as it highlights the whites more than the greys. This makes it a more appealing shot.
However I can't tell you how to make it good.
Can also do photography stuff and shot composition, although I think that goes under shot analysis...
With the Aston above my post, the shot on the left looks near unedited. It's very definition-less, and just sort-of there. The shot on the right looks much "brighter" and makes the car stand out more from the background. This in turn makes it a more appealing shot to the eye.
Also, on the original shot composition, I would've picked a different colour car. The colour is too close to the walls, and that already makes your job a whole lot more difficult. As such, everything blends together in the eye. This is not what you want.
The shot on the right suffers the same problem, but the extra gamma and contrast make it jump out more from the walls, as it highlights the whites more than the greys. This makes it a more appealing shot.
- 1,915
GrumpE, you forgot CCCL in the comps section...
As for Grump's entry, I believe that your first entry was better. The focal blur probably could've been fixed with smudging and maybe a little sharpening.
As for Grump's entry, I believe that your first entry was better. The focal blur probably could've been fixed with smudging and maybe a little sharpening.
- 1,948
- Rochester, MI
- GrumpEone
Can't believe I forgot CCCL, and that's one of my six favorites too...
Yeah, the 1st entry had a much better stance, better contrast, and better grille work.
Done, I also put in.s@ne on there too.
If anyone wants to redefine their role list just lemme know and I'll make the changes.
- 8,343
- Auckland
- Lazer0pz
The colour of the Aston isn't too, too, well chosen. It kinda 'blends' in the background. The pose is very good though, giving it... giving... well, It's an Aston. 
.
The angles are good, but, compared to Nickname's, it's not as bright. Watching Johnny English, with the DB7
.
.The angles are good, but, compared to Nickname's, it's not as bright. Watching Johnny English, with the DB7
.
- 1,948
- Rochester, MI
- GrumpEone
Great were in a holding pattern in the tourney, so I was bored enough to seed everyone, for absolutely no reason. A special thanks to all who participated, I'm bummed TheStig13 is unable to continue, he does some real good work.
______________________
1Rateku
2Nicknamealguem
3NTX
4MinoltaMan89
5GrumpEone
6LancerEvo7GSR
780Y 2C2
8David48
______________________
Nenad
______________________
speeddemon_09
drvac
Irons
speedemon08
______________________
5TheStig13 (cannot compete due to vacations, or injured controller lol)
Anyone need shot analyzation? Or was this thread a good idea, but will go nowhere??
______________________
1Rateku
2Nicknamealguem
3NTX
4MinoltaMan89
5GrumpEone
6LancerEvo7GSR
780Y 2C2
8David48
______________________
Nenad
______________________
speeddemon_09
drvac
Irons
speedemon08
______________________
5TheStig13 (cannot compete due to vacations, or injured controller lol)
Anyone need shot analyzation? Or was this thread a good idea, but will go nowhere??
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- 1,018
- David-s13-240
I'd like to join your panel. I know you can't have too many advisors, but I could specialize in just helping out people with Gimp. I know most of you use photoshop, and when I started, the lack of tutorials or experienced people in the gimp department made it hard for me to learn. So I would like to just help the starters that use gimp. And I would also like some critique on my entry.
I've noticed that bright colors usually get an insane amount of votes, so I wasn't really too confident about it to begin with, seeing as how it doesn't stand out. But I want all out criticism. Brutal honesty. Bonus points if you make me cry.
And I would also like some critique on my entry.David48
I've noticed that bright colors usually get an insane amount of votes, so I wasn't really too confident about it to begin with, seeing as how it doesn't stand out. But I want all out criticism. Brutal honesty. Bonus points if you make me cry.
- 7,937
- LMSCorvetteGT2's Mom's House
- GTP_LancerEvo7
Could I have some criticism too? I'm not happy with this shot and I think the rims saved me in the votes department. So throw everything you got at me.
- 1,948
- Rochester, MI
- GrumpEone
@ David48
Sure, I'll do your shot after the Tie-Break poll has been completed, but some of the others are better analysts than me but I will do my best. Cool, I can try and make you cry,
yo mama's so fat she jumped into the air...
and got stuck. jk EDIT:yeah I know get off mamas', cuz you just got off mine...lol
As for a Gimp Guru, I'll add you to the list If this thread ever takes off, but considering it just sat for 20+ days without activity it my not matter.
EDIT:@ LancerEvo7GSR
Your shot's not too bad, I think what takes away from the shot is the blurred rear-end, also a lower angle showing more background and less pavement may have helped, but would have also changed the lighting a bit. Also the shot is too centered for my tastes, plus I think the rims didn't have much impact on the shot, if you chose a different angle or perspective you could have accentuated the color in the rims to make them jump-out to the viewer with that real nice golden hue (although it's kinda tough at that location). I also would have cropped out some of the bottom and some of the right edge, but I crop everything a bit.
Sure, I'll do your shot after the Tie-Break poll has been completed, but some of the others are better analysts than me but I will do my best. Cool, I can try and make you cry,
yo mama's so fat she jumped into the air...
and got stuck. jk EDIT:yeah I know get off mamas', cuz you just got off mine...lol
As for a Gimp Guru, I'll add you to the list If this thread ever takes off, but considering it just sat for 20+ days without activity it my not matter.
EDIT:@ LancerEvo7GSR
Your shot's not too bad, I think what takes away from the shot is the blurred rear-end, also a lower angle showing more background and less pavement may have helped, but would have also changed the lighting a bit. Also the shot is too centered for my tastes, plus I think the rims didn't have much impact on the shot, if you chose a different angle or perspective you could have accentuated the color in the rims to make them jump-out to the viewer with that real nice golden hue (although it's kinda tough at that location). I also would have cropped out some of the bottom and some of the right edge, but I crop everything a bit.
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Close, but no cigar.
- 10,828
- Belgium
- bramturismo
You have a solid entry, I hope you will get through the tie-break poll as I preferred it the other two entries. The positioning of the car is nice, as well as the panning. But you need to address more aspects that become more important with PMC-rules entries. For example, you can't clean the car and you cannot rework the panel gaps. The panel gaps for one look horrifiedly jagged. These things are the things you want to avoid, and you can simply do that by zooming out. Personally I would've zoomed out more, giving the eye more scenery to focus on than the jagged panel gaps. Also, your entry was quite vintage styled so I think you could have went with the semi-saturated filter in GT4. I think you do it by pressing triangle, or in photomode you have to manually set it. (it's always set to saturated colous by default, then semi-saturated, then B&W).
So more out-zooming, and some more vintage styled colours (something sephia-ish), that's about it. Oherwise I think you have a very decent entry. Keep it up 👍
The problem I had with your entry was that since there is so much action going on, you went overboard with the contrast. The car is grey, which means that it'll white out faster than if it were a black car. Be careful with that, you want to have strong shadows, but you don't want to blow out your whites to keep highlight definitions. Sicen your whites are completely blown out on the part which is in focus, it's kind of "in ur face!". Other than that the shutter speed could've been set faster to capture a larger focussed area on the car. It doesn't have to be that much focussed, but a fully focussed front wheel and frontal area is crucial in an action shot, because all the rest is blurred. Positioning is OK, although I'm missing the rule of thirds in this entry. Placing the car near a corner would've made it more interesting. If you haven't heard about the rule of thirds definitly look it up because it'll help you big-time 👍
- 2,514
- Québec
- GTP_WorstDriver
Can you guys, tell me what you think about this photo ? It's my entry for the unedited competion week 65. (Your first car) I got recently into GT4 and I was just messing around with the photomode and I decided to try it for fun.
Positive and negative criticism is welcome as long as it is constructive and honest. 👍
Thank you all in advance.
- 1,018
- David-s13-240
Well I think that the car is a little to close to the edge of the photo. Also, it's far too centered on the Y Axis. Moving the camera up or down a little would fix it. A larger size would help us see any more strengths/weaknesses. But I like the contrast and saturation a lot. 👍 It's pretty hard to get that straight out of the game, but I've always liked Tsukuba's lighting.
- 1,915
Erhm, that's not Tsukuba...that's Beginner Course, as evidenced by the things on the side of the track.
Anyway, David said everything. If you want to view a larger size, check the comp thread.
Anyway, David said everything. If you want to view a larger size, check the comp thread.
