I can't argue against any of what you're saying but I'm still not sure we're still talking about the same thing. I'm talking about physics changes in the early January update while you are talking about some people's general complaints towards the physics and why they are wrong. I fail to to see the connection.
According to T10, it wasn't a physics change, but a change made to the cars themselves. But they could quite easily have just dumped it under the "cars" moniker.
As for if we are talking about the same thing, obviously we are. You are clearly saying that before the January update, all cars, especially midships or FWD, would suffer constantly with excessive lift off oversteer. I am saying that it was down to peoples car control being poor. Then you pointed out from looking at my youtube videos that my throttle control stopped me from suffering with it, and that I was using proper car control (obviously). And that you "didn't see any obvious instances where you attempt to induce lift-off oversteer.". The videos where done to show that with proper driving techniques, lift off oversteer
was not an issue. This is what you failed to see in regards to my in game footage.
But you also pointed out that I suffered a lift of oversteer moment in the F458 speciale when using the xbox control pad, which I didn't deny. You seem to believe it is an adverse effect of the physics engine, and I pointed out it was because I lifted off the throttle very sharply, which would happen in real life under the exact same circumstance.
Lift off oversteer is something that effects real cars after all, but it is far less noticeable in a modern car, mainly because of stability management (ESC). Fifth gear have a video on it, you should check it out:
In forza (and other racing games), most people turn STM off. I know I do. But this means that people have to have the driving skills to back up turning it off. This is why people hardly ever see cars spinning out in the real world now, and one of the reasons people believe that lift off oversteer isn't realistic in a sim based racing game. Seriously, you are all in for a rude awakening when Assetto Corsa finally hits the consoles. Not to mention that the driving line assist in Assetto, at the moment anyway, is utter trash. So if people do not adhere to proper driving techniques and lines in that game, then it is going to be one hell of a crash fest.
You also believe that the change T10 made in the January content update has removed/reduced the effect of lift off oversteer greatly. I am saying it hasn't, but I am saying that people such as yourself have improved. You even said you had changed your driving style to be much more effective:
lift-off oversteer is something I have dealt with by utilizing effective driving techniques
Which in layman's terms means "I stopped driving like a damn fool, and started treating these virtual cars with the same respect I would in the real world!". Why is it so hard to believe that you (and others besides you), have just improved to the point where it is no longer an issue? That you are now driving the cars better?
You also have to remember here that I am a drifter who mainly uses inertia drifting techniques, and not handbrake initiations. So a change in how lift-off oversteer works in the game would be very noticeable to me, as it would effect my preferred style of initiating a drift. Which, for the most part, is down to a combination of lifting off the throttle sharply while turning. This is how I know that nothing has changed on that front. They changed something relating to the angular velocity of something, but I do not believe it was relating lift off oversteer. If I had to speculate and hazard at a guess, I would say the update relates to the front wheels of the car. The one thing that changed for me with the January update, is the fact my G920 wheel will now turn much better under its own torque. This is something that it struggled to do before the January update, and I would frequently say that the "FFB feels heavily dampened". T10 themselves even said:
This subtle change will be most noticeable for drifters and tuners who prefer to use a wheel.
That part of the update was for the drifters and racers in Forza who use a wheel, that part is there in black and white.
Either way, you (and others) can continue to believe it isn't a realistic effect of driving a car. And you can even continue to believe that you have not improved. I know better, and the people who no longer suffer with lift off oversteer, in my eyes, have gotten better at driving a virtual car in my opinion. I would much rather believe that people have improved, as opposed to them not improving and thinking that T10 took away the nasty lift off oversteer. Which they have not.
).
