Physics changes in January Content Update

[Nielsen]

EDIT: My findings below (not counting the quoted bullet points) only apply to Test Drive mode in FM6. See post #13 in this thread for additional details.

I have to say that I haven't been too happy with how cars drive in FM6 since the new update. Some things have been improved, such as excessive lift-off oversteer, but it's not all good in my book. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was missing until I noticed that the tire simulation appears to have been simplified with the new update. Do any of you remember how there used to be a noticeable shake in the chassis when stock road car tires regained full grip? That effect is pretty much gone now. The transition between full grip and sliding tires has become very seamless, i.e. it almost feels like there's no friction between track surface and tires anymore. The change affects simulation steering but I'm not sure whether normal steering is different from what it used to be.

I hate to say that the game currently fails to satisfy the driving fix it gave me before the update. I think the physics / tire model has become somewhat artificial and less demanding. I haven't seen this discussed anywhere yet, but I think the change warrants some attention. Best case scenario is that something went wrong while they patched the game, but worst case is that Turn 10 simplified the simulation intentionally. Anyway, I believe it needs to be fixed. I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this matter and what you guys have noticed while driving after the new update.

I also posted the following points in another thread: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/january-patch-notes.340854/

The update appears to have had some significant effects on car handling. Here's a few things I've noticed using simulation steering on the controller:

• Lift-off oversteer is no longer an issue for many cars. Throttle can be disengaged mid-corner without the rear kicking out. However, MR cars such as the Honda NSX are prone to lift-off oversteer, as you'd expect from a car of this layout.
• Oversteer has become easier to correct / control using simulation steering. Snap-oversteer still occurs but it's now easier to avoid.
• Power-induced oversteer now requires more effort to initiate. Many rear-wheel drive cars will not kick out the rear unless launched from a standstill or cornered at relatively slow speeds in the lower gears.
  
• Handing is more direct. For example, the carousel at the Nordschleife can now be tackled with a fair amount of throttle. Before the update, cars had a tendency to early exit the banked inside of the carousel unless great care was taken on the throttle.
• Simulation steering now feels a lot lighter and more abrubt than it did before (isolated to Test Drive mode).

My comparisons are based on driving 100% stock cars. I suspect all of this is related to the adjustment of angular velocity, as described in the patch notes. Turn 10 claims it's a subtle change, but I somehow feel less involved in the driving after the update. The sense of danger when pushing cars to their limit now seems less prevalent to me.

 

[ImaRobot]

I can't really say I notice a considerable difference. I'll have to give it a go in one of my most used cars, as recently I've just been building random vehicles. Maybe what they did was fix the LSD? Rear differential settings where off on RWD vehicles, and completely opposite of what it says in game. However, that's just a guess, as I have yet to check it out.

I notice you specifically mention the Ring, and having just played last night on an A-class Vendura, I cant really say if there was a difference. It didn't really seem all that different.

Should note, my comparisons are from modified cars.

 

[prousonhairy]

I play with a controller and normal steering and i really haven't noticed anything different. Maybe it's for wheel users? I don't really have one go to car that I drive all the time either though, I usually pick random cars to race with, so I may not be able to make as good as comparison as someone who drives the same cars a lot.

I don't see much on it on the forums at the Forza site, just one guy saying he had to go back and adjust some of his tunes because the update made some of his cars a little too stable for his liking.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I haven't noticed much of a change going around Lime Rock in all the stock cars, but I'm going to revisit a few I've done most recently before the update to double-check. Standouts like the Stratos should make any changes apparent pretty easily.

The TS040 felt very easy to handle compared to what I remember the R18 feeling like near the launch date, but that's not exactly concrete.

 

[Heldenzeit]

I've noticed that I have been overcorrecting in anticipation of oversteer coming out of a corner. Most cars I've driven on track don't just randomly oversteer all over the place unless you tell it to, or enter the corner wrong, so I'd say it's a bit more accurate than it was before. I remember the ND Miata in the game was super oversteery, which it isn't in real life.

 

[Ali]

I haven't played much after the update, but I did try the IMSA RX-7 and it definitely felt very different now (to me anyway)... and not in a good way. You don't even have to be careful with the throttle anymore

 

[Andrew R]

I noticed a big difference while driving the V8 Supercars. They used to be wild and throttle control was crucial, now you don't have to be so gentle, can even accelerate over bumps while turning and it doesn't get too out of hand.

It kind of takes that razors edge feeling out of it which is a shame but I also spent a lot of time drifting on older forza games and I couldn't drift at all on Forza 6, this update has made cars a lot more predictable.

 

[VXR]

If this is a design choice rather than a bug, shame on them for dumbing it down nearly six months after release.

 

[RacerPaul]

If this is a design choice rather than a bug, shame on them for dumbing it down nearly six months after release

Indeed. The physics were dumbed down from FM5 quite enough without any more tinkering from T10

 

[fortbo]

The physics actually seems much better, especially compared to FM5. I shouldn't be sliding going 30 with racing tires. It's just not realistic. Maybe the physics in FM6 are not as good as say Iracing or Project Cars, but they are getting there, and this update brought them that much closer. Now they just need to get the FFB sorted out.

 

[RacerPaul]

The physics actually seems much better, especially compared to FM5. I shouldn't be sliding going 30 with racing tires. It's just not realistic

I don't totally disagree

I just found that FM5's physics were closer to the pc sims I like (GT Legends, GTR2, rFactor) which are generally considered to be more realistic than console stuff

I wouldn't know anyway I suppose, I don't even drive irl

 

[fortbo]

I don't totally disagree

I just found that FM5's physics were closer to the pc sims I like (GT Legends, GTR2, rFactor) which are generally considered to be more realistic than console stuff

I wouldn't know anyway I suppose, I don't even drive irl

From what I've experienced, the new physics are more realistic compared to how a car handles in real life.

 

[Nielsen]

I've made an interesting discovery today. Since the update I've spent nearly all of my time in the Test Drive mode and it's my experiences there which provide basis for the concerns I've voiced in the original post of this thread. Today I went into Free Play because I wanted to make some progress and it turns out that the cars handle like I remember they did before the update. Handle is a key word here as I'm referring how it feels to steer the cars. I'm still convinced that the physics have been altered in terms off improving overall drivability, as the patch notes also suggest. I wonder if the varying opinions on this matter may come down to which steering mode people use?

Back to my point, it seems that something provokes a difference in how cars handle in Test Drive (the game mode in FM6) and other game modes. I suspect the update might have introduced a bug that affects how the simulation works under different circumstances. At least I never noticed a handling difference between the different game modes before the new update. I'm using the controller (all deadzones 0 - 100) with simulation steering and all assists off except clutch, so you might want to use these settings if you want to see exactly what I'm talking about.

I'd describe the handling as dumbed down and hectic in the Test Drive mode. At times it can almost feel physics defying if the car is very responsive by default. On the other hand, handling feels controlled and natural in Free Play and Career. Again, settings as mentioned above.

 

[ImaRobot]

Iive noticed the test drive mode feeling different since FM5, but it doesn't seem to be so bad this iteration.

I believe I mad a post on it somewhere in the FM5 forums.

 

[VXR]

I use Test Drive mode for all my reviews and photoshoots, plus I haven't changed my deadzones and I can't say I've ever felt the cars feel different to how they are in career mode or the odd occasion I have used Free Play.

 

[Nielsen]

Iive noticed the test drive mode feeling different since FM5, but it doesn't seem to be so bad this iteration.

I believe I mad a post on it somewhere in the FM5 forums.

I never played FM5 but I guess that supports my notion.

I use Test Drive mode for all my reviews and photoshoots, plus I haven't changed my deadzones and I can't say I've ever felt the cars feel different to how they are in career mode or the odd occasion I have used Free Play.

Are you using normal or simulation steering? I made a brief comparison on normal steering and it roughly felt the same across the different game modes.

 

[VXR]

Yeah I use normal, as I much prefer the consistency when you go beyond the limit.

 

[ImaRobot]

I tried out Simulation Steering like you suggested @Nielsen, and you're right. I felt it seemed a lot more manageable. I was contemplating leaving it on, but I decided not to as I still prefer normal. Still, that was interesting to find out.

 

[Nielsen]

To avoid unnecessary confusion, I've updated the original post to reflect the additional info I added in post #13.

 

[ImaRobot]

One thing I've recently noticed is that the way your car reacts to curbs seems to be dialed back a little bit. I'm not exactly sure if this is recent or not, because I've only just started playing again with this new DLC. It could very well be my different tuning methods since I've come back.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

One thing I've recently noticed is that the way your car reacts to curbs seems to be dialed back a little bit. I'm not exactly sure if this is recent or not, because I've only just started playing again with this new DLC. It could very well be my different tuning methods since I've come back.

I'm not sure it's changed, but it seems to be car-dependant. Running the McLaren in the Can-Am races online, it positively hated even getting near curbing. Some of the mid-engine cars will react poorly at Lime Rock too.

Coming into the final turn there, I've found even the painted line on the outer edge can upset grip a bit. I've checked replays to see if maybe I dipped a tire in the grass, but no, it's the line.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'm not sure it's changed, but it seems to be car-dependant. Running the McLaren in the Can-Am races online, it positively hated even getting near curbing. Some of the mid-engine cars will react poorly at Lime Rock too.

Coming into the final turn there, I've found even the painted line on the outer edge can upset grip a bit. I've checked replays to see if maybe I dipped a tire in the grass, but no, it's the line.

My experience was from the Motul GTR, that thing doesn't seem to have a problem going over them. While I know it's a pure bred race car, and I know you can't really use a different car to compare as if they're identical, but it just took them extremely well. Some of my other tuned vehicles seem to take them well, but I have no comparison from before the update as they're new, so it could very well just be the car.

 

[JDMKING13]

Hmmm I definitely agree with slip about the curbs, and how different cars get affect As for the physics I think they made it were the limits of the cars are not so extreme. I have notice that I am not spinning out with that aggressive snap oversteer as much.

 

[ImaRobot]

@Nielsen I found the thread where I brought this up as well. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/differences-in-game-modes.316481/#post-10045877

 

[Nielsen]

@Nielsen I found the thread where I brought this up as well. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/differences-in-game-modes.316481/#post-10045877

You do bring up a similar point in relation to grip feeling different in the Test Drive mode. I'd say the differences you describe as being noticeable from the "get go" in FM5 are also apparent in FM6. This leads me to believe that the issue has been transferred from FM5 into FM6, either intentionally or unintentionally. It's just my theory. However, the "hectic" feel of simulation steering in Test Drive mode, which I brought up in post #13, is something the January update has either introduced or facilitated. Perhaps swift, quick, abrupt, or input sensitive may be better words to describe it.

I see two possible answers to why that might be. The general improvements made to simulation steering in the latest content update could have enhanced whatever long-standing differences there possibly already were between Test Drive mode and other game modes. Then there's also the possibility that the update has introduced a bug which might affect how simulation steering behaves in Test Drive mode.

 

[dopedog]

They made it better IMO, believe it or not driving well engineered racing cars worth millions of pounds and developed by master minds and enough aero to fly if you turned it upside down should not feel like they are driving on ice with tyres made of marble.....

Even stock road cars have tyres that are meant to grip... hence why you dont see people driving to work on a dry sunny day going side ways like Ken Block at every round about... in fact you dont see it on rainy day either...

Pre Jan patch you could be going side ways in a stock hatch back anything over 30mph...that is/was a joke..

 

[ImaRobot]

They made it better IMO, believe it or not driving well engineered racing cars worth millions of pounds and developed by master minds and enough aero to fly if you turned it upside down should not feel like they are driving on ice with tyres made of marble.....

Even stock road cars have tyres that are meant to grip... hence why you dont see people driving to work on a dry sunny day going side ways like Ken Block at every round about... in fact you dont see it on rainy day either...

Pre Jan patch you could be going side ways in a stock hatch back anything over 30mph...that is/was a joke..

Main reason being is that people are not Racing full speed to work, especially in the rain. Not sure how you even came to make that assumption

 

[dopedog]

Main reason being is that people are not Racing full speed to work, especially in the rain. Not sure how you even came to make that assumption

I kinda knew i get that reply. Cars have road tyres designed to grip amazingly enough, even in the wet! To expand i mean i can drive around corners at 60 mph without ending up in the hedge on narrow country roads (have done it faster on those private roads...) cars in Forza 6 before Jan patch a road car going 30 mph around a corner could spin like on ice...not real..and the race cars are designed to RACE not as a test for the drivers to see how they can drive on a total knife edge. They are (certainly modern race cars) designed to be 'easy' to drive, or as easy to drive as possible, hence when a driver says a race car handles rubbish its not designed very well..

I dont agree with the notion, SIM= stupidly skiddy tyres ARCADE= grippy tyres... tyres are meant to grip up to the limit, even at limit they aren't designed to just lose it in a blink and send you into a 360 in bone dry surface..
Go look how much race tyres will cost you and tell me they should just be like driving on ice.

 

[ImaRobot]

I kinda knew i get that reply. Cars have road tyres designed to grip amazingly enough, even in the wet! To expand i mean i can drive around corners at 60 mph without ending up in the hedge on narrow country roads (have done it faster on those private roads...) cars in Forza 6 before Jan patch a road car going 30 mph around a corner could spin like on ice...not real..and the race cars are designed to RACE not as a test for the drivers to see how they can drive on a total knife edge. They are (certainly modern race cars) designed to be 'easy' to drive, or as easy to drive as possible, hence when a driver says a race car handles rubbish its not designed very well..

I dont agree with the notion, SIM= stupidly skiddy tyres ARCADE= grippy tyres... tyres are meant to grip up to the limit, even at limit they aren't designed to just lose it in a blink and send you into a 360 in bone dry surface..
Go look how much race tyres will cost you and tell me they should just be like driving on ice.

Can't say I agree with you. I'm thinking it might be an experience problem, otherwise the whole LimeRock and Nurburgring leaderboards we have here would be far from competitive, if it was following what you're saying. Fluid and modulated inputs are key.

I didn't realize being a race car driver is so easy though. Seems like a profession that absolutely anyone can get into easily if that's the case.

 

[dopedog]

Can't say I agree with you. I'm thinking it might be an experience problem, otherwise the whole LimeRock and Nurburgring leaderboards we have here would be far from competitive, if it was following what you're saying. Fluid and modulated inputs are key.

I didn't realize being a race car driver is so easy though. Seems like a profession that absolutely anyone can get into easily if that's the case.

OK i'll step back as these things never end well, but maybe look into who can and does drive racing cars in many top class events and you will quickly see that there are 'normal' people driving racing cars, the very best are driving to and over the limit of the cars. But prime example is BTCC for years thats had any number of blokes with cash able to pay to drive in varying degrees of success. Lots of F1 'stars' have been pay drivers.
GT racing has Pros teamed with 'gentleman' drivers etc.
Add to that the factor of whether someone is really that good or they just happen to be in the best car etc.. anyway we dont have to agree..

Its hard to drive at the limit and beyond but race cars are by the very nature designed to be 'easy' to drive they certainly dont make race cars so only 1 or 2 guys could ever be good enough to drive them, you dont think Lewis and Nico are that much better than the rest do you solely on their own ability?
I'd imagine Mercedes could of had a long list of replacements who could win in that car or come second in it if Lewis or Nico got injured...

Also look at popularity of those 'drive a race car days', its not witchcraft driving a car, but it take amazing skill and commitment to be the very best, i can play tennis pretty well but i'm not Andy Murray , i can ride a bike but i'm not Chris Froome etc etc..