Pilgrimage to Nürburgring

[Gashlycrumb]

A friend and I have decided to make a pilgrimage to the Nürburgring. We have booked our flights and will be flying to London (ex Auckland) in May 2008. Basically our plan is to buy a car in London and womble our way around the UK for a week or so before making our way to Germany including a few days freaking ourselves out on the Nürburgring.

We have booked our return flight for the first week of June 2008 to allow for some unplanned excursions.

What I am wondering is:

1) How easy is it to buy a car in the UK and tax and insure it;

2) Is it better to put the car on the train or ferry

2) What would be a good car to buy that would take two guys and a week's worth of luggage to Germany, be fun to drive and most importantly survive 3 or 4 days of Nürburgring excitement? We are thinking that we would need to spend up to £4000 to get something reliable.

Any tips, thoughts or advice would be great.

 

[Perfect Balance]

You have enough money to just "buy" a car that is worth taking around the 'ring?

Dammit you, buy me a flywheel or something.


I suggest some kind miata-type.

Or an old m3 if you can afford it.

 

[Gashlycrumb]

The plan is to spend £4000 or so on a car and then sell it at the end of the four weeks. We think doing it that way would actually work out cheaper than a rental and more fun too!

 

[Perfect Balance]

The plan is to spend £4000 or so on a car and then sell it at the end of the four weeks. We think doing it that way would actually work out cheaper than a rental and more fun too!

Watch Top Gear much?


"Here guys, buy this car."

Costumer: "Why are you selling it?"

"Well, we just destroyed them around the 'ring for a few days and we don't need them anymore."

 

[Keef]

Watch Top Gear much?

QFT. I'll sit back and watch. If you pull this off without the hundreds of people in the background doing all the research I'll...ask you to take me with you next time.

Hell, I can't even get a trip to the Dragon right. You know how many things went wrong on that 400 mile journey?

Also, if you get your money converted to pounds, how the heck are you going to get it converted back? Can you actually spend US money in England or do you have to have a bank exchange it? Will American banks exchange any foreign currency at all?

Four-thousand pounds converts to about $8,000. Sage, I hope you can get something that runs for that. Jeez.

 

[Gashlycrumb]

QFT. I'll sit back and watch. If you pull this off without the hundreds of people in the background doing all the research I'll...ask you to take me with you next time.

Hell, I can't even get a trip to the Dragon right. You know how many things went wrong on that 400 mile journey?

I have friends and family in London (hence starting there) who can help with the purchase of the car and storeage and disposal once we are done. The company I work for also has offices in London, Paris and Hamburg so if worst comes to worst I can make my way to one of those to seek assistance.

Logistically I don't think it'll be too bad. Last year we flew to Australia, bought a car and did 4000kms is four weeks with no major problems.

I'm flying from New Zealand so I'll have to convert my money once I arrive. No big deal. To actually purchase the car I imagine that I'll have to transfer some money to one of my friends and have them purchase the car. Once the car is sold we'll just do the reverse.

 

[Keef]

I have friends and family in London (hence starting there) who can help with the purchase of the car and storeage and disposal once we are done. The company I work for also has offices in London, Paris and Hamburg so if worst comes to worst I can make my way to one of those to seek assistance.

Logistically I don't think it'll be too bad. Last year we flew to Australia, bought a car and did 4000kms is four weeks with no major problems.

Oh. Well then never mind. So I guess you're taking me on the next trip, eh? Where we goin'?

EDIT: NZ? Hmm. Surely they don't look at foreign money, scratch their chins and say "Hmph. What the hell we gon' do with this?" like they do in America.

 

[Gashlycrumb]

Oh. Well then never mind. So I guess you're taking me on the next trip, eh? Where we goin'?

EDIT: NZ? Hmm. Surely they don't look at foreign money, scratch their chins and say "Hmph. What the hell we gon' do with this?" like they do in America.

I would love to go to the Monaco grand prix. So if this works out I'll put you down as part of the roadtrip

Banks are normally fine about converting foreign currency. I'll convert probably NZD$10,000 before I leave, just in case. Plus I have my credit card for hotels, food and incidentals.

 

[ferrari_chris]

I wish you well with your journey, and look on with great envy. 👍 I plan to get to the 'ring at some stage too.

I'm very interested in the trials and tribulations you encounter, so keep posting in this thread so we can see how you're getting on achieving your goal.

I'm so envious. Oh, and an MX5 to tour with and lap the 'ring in would be a great deal. If not a little girly... A quick check of eBay tells that there should be no probs getting an MX5 for that money too!

Good luck!

 

[Famine]

To answer the questions:

1) How easy is it to buy a car in the UK and tax and insure it;

Ridiculously hard.

First off, buying the car you're going to get ripped off. And I mean RIPPED off. Only the Scandinavian countries pay more for their cars than we do.

Taxing it is easy. You need the Vehicle Registration Form (V5C) and MoT Certificate for the vehicle. And £90. Tax is valid for 6/12 months. If you buy a car with tax already on it, you're in the clear anyway. If not, you'll need to take the last owner with you down to a post office since they'll have the V5C. When you buy a car, you both fill in the V5C and send it off to the DVLA. This will take up to 6 weeks to come back to you.


Insuring it will be impossible. You need a UK or EU driving licence and a UK or EU home address. Even IF you can find an insurance company willing to insure you, you'll be wanting to bend over for them to insert their big, fat premium.


On the other hand, you can do what most of the "equatorially-centred continent, non-native, legality-independant" people do, and just buy it and drive around without a licence or insurance. Seems to work for them.

2) Is it better to put the car on the train or ferry

Train. £140, but it only takes 20 minutes.

2) What would be a good car to buy that would take two guys and a week's worth of luggage to Germany, be fun to drive and most importantly survive 3 or 4 days of Nürburgring excitement? We are thinking that we would need to spend up to £4000 to get something reliable.

Reliable = Japanese, German.

Sadly, reliable != £4,000 Japanese, German

£4k will get you an NB MX-5, any number of low-spec Supras, Skylines, GTOs and RX-7s (which will be thrashed to death already), MX-3 V6, E30/E36/E46 BMW, EG/EK Civic... You could probably find a DC2 Integra Type-R

I'd get something like a Ford Fiesta Zetec-S.

You'll easily find one for £4k and they're bloody hilarious to drive. Plenty of room and not liable to break in a hurry. Not exactly neck-snapping fast, but that means you're not quite as likely to snap your neck. Or owe the 'Ring for several hundred yards of Armco.

 

[Gashlycrumb]

To answer the questions:



Ridiculously hard.

First off, buying the car you're going to get ripped off. And I mean RIPPED off. Only the Scandinavian countries pay more for their cars than we do.

Taxing it is easy. You need the Vehicle Registration Form (V5C) and MoT Certificate for the vehicle. And £90. Tax is valid for 6/12 months. If you buy a car with tax already on it, you're in the clear anyway. If not, you'll need to take the last owner with you down to a post office since they'll have the V5C. When you buy a car, you both fill in the V5C and send it off to the DVLA. This will take up to 6 weeks to come back to you.


Insuring it will be impossible. You need a UK or EU driving licence and a UK or EU home address. Even IF you can find an insurance company willing to insure you, you'll be wanting to bend over for them to insert their big, fat premium.


On the other hand, you can do what most of the "equatorially-centred continent, non-native, legality-independant" people do, and just buy it and drive around without a licence or insurance. Seems to work for them.



Train. £140, but it only takes 20 minutes.



Reliable = Japanese, German.

Sadly, reliable != £4,000 Japanese, German

£4k will get you an NB MX-5, any number of low-spec Supras, Skylines, GTOs and RX-7s (which will be thrashed to death already), MX-3 V6, E30/E36/E46 BMW, EG/EK Civic... You could probably find a DC2 Integra Type-R

I'd get something like a Ford Fiesta Zetec-S.

You'll easily find one for £4k and they're bloody hilarious to drive. Plenty of room and not liable to break in a hurry. Not exactly neck-snapping fast, but that means you're not quite as likely to snap your neck. Or owe the 'Ring for several hundred yards of Armco.

Thanks Famine:tup: Excellent advice as always. Delivered in a way only you can.

I hadn't realised that it would be possible to get something as new and as fun as you suggested. The Fiesta looks ok. I'm not a big fan of Fords, but it looks to be a good size and should be peppy enough.

I'm getting my insurance broker here to investigate whether public liability insurance would cover me for driving. If I crash I don't really mind if I don't get the money for my car so long as I don't have to spend the rest of my life paying for the Bentley I ran into

MX-3 V6

How much to rent yours for a month?

 

[1X83Z]

Why wouldn't you just rent a car at the Nurburgring? I mean the idea of purchasing a vehicle in a foreign country is preposterous and that says nothing of the idea of attempting to sell it at the end of this caper. What if no one's interested and it takes days or weeks? This reeks of "not properly thought out."

 

[Famine]

How much to rent yours for a month?

Pick your dates...

 

[Gashlycrumb]

Why wouldn't you just rent a car at the Nurburgring? I mean the idea of purchasing a vehicle in a foreign country is preposterous and that says nothing of the idea of attempting to sell it at the end of this caper. What if no one's interested and it takes days or weeks? This reeks of "not properly thought out."

Because we are planning to be in europe for 4 weeks and we will need transport for that time anyway. I have family and friends in the UK who can help me dispose of the car at the end. I don't need to hang around and wait for it to sell. As long as I can sell it within a couple of months or so of using it, it should be a problem. So long as I don't lose any more than a couple of grand on it then it has been cheaper than renting a car for the four weeks. Unless Famine gives me a good deal on his MX-3 (6 May 2008 - 5/6 June 2008 would be super)

It is kind of ironic that you say this reeks of "not properly thought out", when I am planning it Six months in advance!

 

[ExigeEvan]

You could pick up a decent mk2 MR2 for 4 grand. And you'd look better in that than a Zetec S. Luggage might be a problem though

 

[Famine]

You could pick up a decent mk2 MR2 for 4 grand. And you'd look better in that than a Zetec S. Luggage might be a problem though

Plus alleged wet-handling woes, plus the Nuerburgring = flaming death.

 

[nige]

You could get this for under 3K.
http://www.exchangeandmart.co.uk/ia...o/object?emcode=8674607&sid=xz3c5l5piHu936166
Good luck in your quest.
nige

 

[ExigeEvan]

Plus alleged wet-handling woes, plus the Nuerburgring = flaming death.

It'll be late spring/early summer, just before the schools break up for holidays. It's common fact that the best weather is always when the school's are still in term.

 

[Gashlycrumb]

You could pick up a decent mk2 MR2 for 4 grand. And you'd look better in that than a Zetec S. Luggage might be a problem though

Plus alleged wet-handling woes, plus the Nuerburgring = flaming death.

That may put a slight crimp in my plan of selling it at the end

For Sale - Only used on quiet drive in the country, may need slight panel work

You could get this for under 3K.
http://www.exchangeandmart.co.uk/ia...o/object?emcode=8674607&sid=xz3c5l5piHu936166
Good luck in your quest.
nige

Thanks:tup: I hadn't thought of an FTO. That does prove to me how much more expensive fun cars are in the UK. I could get an FTO here in NZ for NZ$2800

 

[Joey D]

Old School GTI.

I with the other, this seems like quite a bit, but I wish you well in your adventures and hopefully you can prove us wrong.

 

[Venari]

You can have my Pyrenees Black 1994 FTO for £2,000.

Koni adjustables, Tein springs, good suspension bushes, freshly rebuilt manual gearbox, strong engine (touch of valve guide wear - keeps the oil fresh, though) Mongoose S/S exhaust, none of that catalyst nonsense (sounds like a racing Alfa), new brakes all around <100miles ago, EBC Red Stuff pads, standard alloys powdercoated black and shod with Toyo Proxes T1-R. Flat paint, rusty bits on roof and underneath here and there, just got the MOT.

Relentlessly thrashed since the day I got it (7 years and 100,000+ miles ago), loves every second of it and comes back for more. Genuine 150mph+ car (not a stranger to the continent) and keeps up with mate's dynoed 245hp Focus ST.

I only haven't sold it because I can't think of anything as capable and practical to replace it with. C5 Corvette or Audi S4 Avant next year, maybe.

 

[opendriver]

Rent a car

Pay the extra 20 bucks for the "insurance"

Go have fun and dont kill yourself

 

[Keef]

You can have my Pyrenees Black 1994 FTO for £2,000.

Koni adjustables, Tein springs, good suspension bushes, freshly rebuilt manual gearbox, strong engine (touch of valve guide wear - keeps the oil fresh, though) Mongoose S/S exhaust, none of that catalyst nonsense (sounds like a racing Alfa), new brakes all around <100miles ago, EBC Red Stuff pads, standard alloys powdercoated black and shod with Toyo Proxes T1-R. Flat paint, rusty bits on roof and underneath here and there, just got the MOT.

Relentlessly thrashed since the day I got it (7 years and 100,000+ miles ago), loves every second of it and comes back for more. Genuine 150mph+ car (not a stranger to the continent) and keeps up with mate's dynoed 245hp Focus ST.

I only haven't sold it because I can't think of anything as capable and practical to replace it with. C5 Corvette or Audi S4 Avant next year, maybe.

Another FTO? Buy a Civic. You need Honda in your veins, too. Two thousand three hundred pound car + K20 + six-speed = Quick, great handler (even if the K20 makes it even more front heavy), and definitely worth 150+.

 

[Venari]

[Um, sorry for the OT]

I don't like four-pots... and I'm a coupe fan. Sorry, don't want a shopping box. Once you've fallen in love with third-order noise (or that special combination of second- and fourth- that makes American V8s so special) then the fizzing four-pot sounds a bit... well... fizzy.

I can honestly say with my hand on my heart that I've never met a Honda that I haven't dusted on the open road. Ditto for Audi TTs. And I've scared a couple of stock-ish Scooby-Doos too. Mind you, I whooped an Alpina 3.0 Roadster in a stock 1.4 Rover 25 the other day, so it just goes to show it's mostly the nut behind the wheel that counts.

That said, I've never frequented an event where all the blinged Hondas get together and razz it up. Not my bag. And why do I have to change the engine first before I enjoy it? Is that because it wasn't good enough to begin with? I could put the drop VR4 engine into the FTO and make a proper weapon. People single turbo the MIVEC lump and get over 300hp. :shrug:

I do have a respect for the marque - I've worked on a Jackson supercharged and heavily internally modified 1.6 non-VTEC CRX that puts out about 260hp on nuts and 400hp+ on gas. And I'd buy an NSX, as long as I didn't have to look at the dashboard graphics. I drove an Accord Type-R on an extended business trip, that wasn't bad. (Edit: it was a complete hoot, actually - if I had to pick a Honda to own, that would be it.) Never rated the Integra Type-R, though. Not enough torque, and I didn't think the chassis was that great either... but I was ragging on a car with about 6 miles on the clock.

At Port Erin in the Isle of Man, this is the lowest (but not quite the dirtiest) it's been. It's now maybe 15-20mm higher. Those springs were solid.

[/OT]

 

[Max_DC]

I just wanted to say that renting the car might be a better idea. You get great cars for about 1500 EUR/month, for example a BMW Z4 coupe. A BMW 650 would be around 3200 EUR a month.
Maybe renting is a little more expensive, but you get a brand new car, fun to drive, insurence and you don't have to worry about buying, reselling, getting an insurence and what not...

EDIT : Prices are for rental in Germany, just had a look at British rates and that's why I can't recommend renting one there. Rent it in mainland Europe

 

[kikie]

I think they need a right hand drive!? German rental cars ==> left hand drive.

 

[Roo]

But if he's touring the UK and Europe, then he's going to end up sitting on the wrong side somewhere.

You might need to rent a seperate car for the Nurburgring too. Most, if not all, rental companies will specify that the car is not to be used on trackdays and/or the Nurburgring.

 

[Richardrfo]

But isn't the 'Ring considered a public toll road? They'd have to say specifically that it can't be used there, No?

 

[Metar]

But isn't the 'Ring considered a public toll road? They'd have to say specifically that it can't be used there, No?

It's officially stated as such, but most insurances still won't cover it.

http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/insurance.html

 

[Famine]

But isn't the 'Ring considered a public toll road? They'd have to say specifically that it can't be used there, No?

This is wholly correct.

And most insurers do specify the 'Ring as an exclusion.