Pirelli to stop using hard tire for rest of season

[YellowG1]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93680

Cue the FIA-Ferrari conspiracy theories...

 

[Peter.]

I'd like to shut those Ferrari International Assistance rumors up before they start, with a post I had on a different forum regarding the matter, and another post replying, which I believe sums it all up fairly.

It's because of Pirelli ditching the hard tyres that people are accusing Pirelli of being biased to Ferrari. I disagree, because everyone disliked the hard tyres, saying that they had too little grip, and didn't even last long. Yes, it will certainly favour Ferrari, as they struggled on the hards the most of anyone, but I hate when people always play the "Blame Ferrari" card whenever a rule change arises without thinking of the actual problems or potential problems of whatever rule it may be.

Thank you - this season, the current hard tyre compound has been an abysmal failure, and Pirelli know it has been a failure, because the balance between outright pace and tyre wear is too far out. It just doesn't have the durability that it needs to make it viable over a long stint, and the current mediums are a far better compromise - besides, most of the upcoming tracks do not have especially abrasive surfaces, so the medium tyres will be more than adequate anyway.

Sadly, though, it seems that nothing in Formula 1 can happen without somebody asking if Ferrari are behind it - it's not as if they don't have any influence, but some commentators, who'd normally be completely rational and methodical, will hyperbolically blame Ferrari for just about every problem, real and imagined, in the sport today, even where there is clear evidence that others have been involved.

 

[Terronium-12]

"Ferrari International Assistance".

 

[Ardius]

Erm, shouldn't it be "Pirelli - making Ferrari faster"? What does the FIA have to do with this?

Why is it that any time anything happens with F1 that people don't like, they always blame or refer to the FIA? The FIA do not control everything or everyone in F1.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Oh no, Ferrari Interests Authority strikes again!

Joking aside, isn't this just a question of which tyres are actually suitable for each of the remaining tracks for the season?

 

[Terronium-12]

Erm, shouldn't it be "Pirelli - making Ferrari faster"? What does the FIA have to do with this?

Why is it that any time anything happens with F1 that people don't like, they always blame or refer to the FIA? The FIA do not control everything or everyone in F1.

I thought it was Ferrari, then Bernie, then the FIA?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I thought it was Ferrari, then Bernie, then the FIA?

Ferrari, then Bernie, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse-vampires, then the FIA with a fiendish plot to gift both world championships to the Maranello-based squad. We're through the looking glass, here, people.

 

[niky]

Aside from the fact that they're too darn slippery... this may be a tactic to get more pit stops in each race...

Then again... the hard tires made for interesting racing, because they were more challenging for teams to juggle. And the hard-soft dichotomy made qualifying a wonderful show... I'm sad to see them go.

 

[Pupik]

Ferrari, then Bernie, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse-vampires, then the FIA with a fiendish plot to gift both world championships to the Maranello-based squad. We're through the looking glass, here, people...

Don't forget Wang Computers...

 

[Joker-GTBR]

So at the end of the season we'll probably see more pit stops in a single race than in a whole 24 Hours of Le Mans.

 

[YellowG1]

Oh no, Ferrari Interests Authority strikes again!

Joking aside, isn't this just a question of which tyres are actually suitable for each of the remaining tracks for the season?

Realzing that every driver likes a softer tire, it seemed like everyone up and down pit lane hated the hard tire. It didn't seem to last much longer but definitely had significantly less grip. I just hope we don't go to a situation where RBR or another team can run almost the entire race on a soft tire, as I recall happening a couple times last year. All things considered, Pirelli did a good job coming up with a pretty good spec tire. This could've gone real badly, but it didnt.

 

[niky]

Too good a job. People were barking about the soft tire wear at the start of the season, then race after race, they learned how to manage them... to the point that they could do medium stints with them.

I doubt they could do the whole race on a single set... losing 4-5 seconds a lap over several laps negates any saved pit time bonus you get.

 

[Cowboys965]

Awww made for some interesting racing

 

[Seismica]

As we saw in Hungary (Though this may have been down to track conditions and/or characteristics) the difference between the soft and super soft tyre isn't that great in performance. The idea that teams would go for long stints on the hard tyre to save on pitstops was a little optimistic when the life of the hard tyre isn't good enough to offset the speed difference. So we're going back to a smaller speed difference between the tyres with this announcement.

I agree with niky's sentiment that qualifying was a great show when the teams had to juggle the two vastly different tyres, it even backed Red Bull to the back of the midfield during Q1. We also saw teams struggling on used tyres in the race so you would get what we saw at China, with Mark Webber coming through the field on new option tyres as he went out so early in qualifying.

Teams were complaining about problems warming up the tyres, simply because their cars were too easy on them. Ferrari is the main one of the front runners with this problem, so it is easy to blame Ferrari. However, I do believe that the tyres should be fixed and it should be an engineering challenge for the teams to get the most out of them. As there is only one tyre supplier, the days should be long gone where the tyre supplier changes it's tyres like that at the request of some of the teams. Next year they're scrapping the hard altogether, and making the medium compound this year into the hard for next year. I think it's a bad move myself.

Cue another conspiracy theory, Pirelli and Ferrari are both Italian, maybe this contributed to the decision to scrap the hard tyre. After all, Ferrari were the most vocal when expressing unhappiness with this tyre.

 

[PeterJB]

This should help Sauber quite a lot since they never seem to pit anyway.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

This should help Sauber quite a lot since they never seem to pit anyway.

What would help Sauber even more is if they went for less conservative strategies.

 

[YellowG1]

Another wrinkle: the (possible) return of the qualifying tire.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93716

I can't believe it's been 20 years since we had an actual qualifying tire...

 

[Peter.]

As we saw in Hungary (Though this may have been down to track conditions and/or characteristics) the difference between the soft and super soft tyre isn't that great in performance. The idea that teams would go for long stints on the hard tyre to save on pitstops was a little optimistic when the life of the hard tyre isn't good enough to offset the speed difference. So we're going back to a smaller speed difference between the tyres with this announcement.

I agree with niky's sentiment that qualifying was a great show when the teams had to juggle the two vastly different tyres, it even backed Red Bull to the back of the midfield during Q1. We also saw teams struggling on used tyres in the race so you would get what we saw at China, with Mark Webber coming through the field on new option tyres as he went out so early in qualifying.

Teams were complaining about problems warming up the tyres, simply because their cars were too easy on them. Ferrari is the main one of the front runners with this problem, so it is easy to blame Ferrari. However, I do believe that the tyres should be fixed and it should be an engineering challenge for the teams to get the most out of them. As there is only one tyre supplier, the days should be long gone where the tyre supplier changes it's tyres like that at the request of some of the teams. Next year they're scrapping the hard altogether, and making the medium compound this year into the hard for next year. I think it's a bad move myself.

Cue another conspiracy theory, Pirelli and Ferrari are both Italian, maybe this contributed to the decision to scrap the hard tyre. After all, Ferrari were the most vocal when expressing unhappiness with this tyre.

These hard tyres were a failure. They are much more trouble than they are worth ,and I seriously doubt the teams would find an engineering solution to get the best out of their tyres. What would happen is that the teams would simply try ever so hard to never use the hards at all, so they would do as little running as possible, then save all their softs for the race and just throw on a set of hards for the last lap. That's how bad the hards are. They have no grip, and they barely last longer than the softs. And not only that, there is little need for a harder tyre anymore because there aren't any more tracks that put a lot of stress on the tyres like Turkey, Catalunya and Silverstone did.

What I think Pirelli are doing as well is just going back to the drawing board, and maybe try and improve the hards to make them a more optimal choice next year, as well as trying to increase the amount of pitstops in the race. Good idea.

 

[Grand Prix]

Another wrinkle: the (possible) return of the qualifying tire.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93716

I can't believe it's been 20 years since we had an actual qualifying tire...

I don't like it. We'll probably just see more accidents like Gilles's where someone is on their flying lap and a back-marker can't get out of the way.

 

[Peter.]

I don't like it. We'll probably just see more accidents like Gilles's where someone is on their flying lap and a back-marker can't get out of the way.

This was one thing that came to my mind when I heard about this. That, and qualifying times will be tainted from now on if they are introduced, as we haven't had qualifying tyres in a long time. I wouldn't like to see the cars lapping faster than they ever have because of tyres alone in qualifying. Plus, the grip of these qualifying tyres may be overwhelming for the drivers.

If we will have qualifying tyres, it should just be 2 extra sets of tyres given to all teams solely for qualifying.

 

[Akmuq]

If qualifying tyres got reintroduced, the qualifying should get put back to the one lap qualifying.

 

[Peter.]

If qualifying tyres got reintroduced, the qualifying should get put back to the one lap qualifying.

One lap qualifying, while it did give everyone, including bottom teams under the spotlight, was definitely one of the worst rules ever introduced to F1. I mean, what would you do in the rain? On a wet track ,he who laughs last laughs best, if that's a good saying, the later you go out on a wet but drying track, the better, so if you're first up then it's tough turtles for you, and if it's dry then wet in the session, then tough turtles for the guys who have to run later.

 

[YellowG1]

If qualifying tyres got reintroduced, the qualifying should get put back to the one lap qualifying.

3-round knockout has been such a success that I can't see F1 going to a one-shot type of format.

 

[niky]

The three-round knockout rules in effect now are fantastc.

Instead of watching two dozen flying laps, or watching people lap around endlessly and aimlessly till the checkered flag, watching qualifying now is almost like watching a race... there's a nice, warm opener to ease you into it, a frantic middle session where there's often more strategizing on tires than in most races, then a climactic final session where people set blistering hero laps.

How many poles of the last two or three seasons have been won on the very last lap of qualifying? Oodles of them. That's a scientific fact.

---

Barring rain, the last laps in any qualifying session are usually the fastest, thanks to the rubber laid down. If we do 1 lap qualifying, then whoever goes first gets the shaft. If we do the free sessions, then you'll have 24 drivers trying to set flying laps in the last two minutes. The way it is now is perfect.

 

[Seismica]

These hard tyres were a failure. They are much more trouble than they are worth ,and I seriously doubt the teams would find an engineering solution to get the best out of their tyres. What would happen is that the teams would simply try ever so hard to never use the hards at all, so they would do as little running as possible, then save all their softs for the race and just throw on a set of hards for the last lap. That's how bad the hards are. They have no grip, and they barely last longer than the softs. And not only that, there is little need for a harder tyre anymore because there aren't any more tracks that put a lot of stress on the tyres like Turkey, Catalunya and Silverstone did.

What I think Pirelli are doing as well is just going back to the drawing board, and maybe try and improve the hards to make them a more optimal choice next year, as well as trying to increase the amount of pitstops in the race. Good idea.

But for next year aswell? The hard tyres are arguably responsible for some of the great races we had earlier this year. The difference between the soft and the super soft is too small and the mediums don't last long enough. I do agree that the hard tyre didn't last long enough (They should be able to last 80% of a GP to open up possibility for one stops) but the grip levels should remain the same as they are supposed to be an inferior tyre. It forced the teams to manage their tyres a lot more to avoid going onto the hard tyre (This was an engineering challenge in itself - Mercedes suffered the most with this). Those who failed to manage their tyres lost a lot of time towards the end of their stints, and it created a lot of overtaking. Now we're heading towards Bridgestone-esque tyre differences just with less overall durability.

If we will have qualifying tyres, it should just be 2 extra sets of tyres given to all teams solely for qualifying.

I'd say one set of options for Q3 would be good, two sets would just mean a free ride for the top teams in the race. I like the idea of a Qualifying/Race trade off with the tyres, but without deterring the teams from sending their drivers out in Q3.

If qualifying tyres got reintroduced, the qualifying should get put back to the one lap qualifying.

I like that idea but as Peter stated, it can be problematic with changing conditions and such. The only way this would work is if Qualifying was done on a simulator

 

[Tired Tyres]

I'd like to see Q1 and Q2 stay as they are with all the cars on the track, but then go to a one at a time single lap run for Q3 in the order of 10th quickest in Q2 goes first and fastest in Q2 goes last.

If conditions change. Tough. That's the way it goes.

 

[Hollidog]

I dont think we will see the return of qualifying tyres, at least not a purpose built compound of qualifying tyre. F1 is trying to go as green as possible, and making a tyre that is only capable of running for <20 miles doesnt really represent eco-friendliness.

 

[Pupik]

There's absolutely no point to qualifying tires if there's only one supplier. If it weren't for the rules, Pirelli would probably just have two tires: Wet and Dry.

Admittedly, I like the two compound rule.

 

[Akmuq]

One lap qualifying, while it did give everyone, including bottom teams under the spotlight, was definitely one of the worst rules ever introduced to F1. I mean, what would you do in the rain? On a wet track ,he who laughs last laughs best, if that's a good saying, the later you go out on a wet but drying track, the better, so if you're first up then it's tough turtles for you, and if it's dry then wet in the session, then tough turtles for the guys who have to run later.

I suggested it because qualifying tyres and multiple cars on track can lead to it bring an anti-climax with traffic getting in the way and crashes like Gilles Villneuve's. The only anti-climax at the moment is when Vettel sets a pole position lap.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There's absolutely no point to qualifying tires if there's only one supplier.

They're looking for ways to encourage drivers to set lap times. They've expressed dissatisfaction with teams at the tail end of the top ten electing not to run in qualifying in order to save tyres for the race. Qualifying tyres would remove that because drivers would not be forced to start on the tyres they set their best lap time on. Which has always been an unpopular rule.

Admittedly, I like the two compound rule.

Pirelli have talked about introducing a three-compound rule for 2012. They would bring one prime and two options. The catch is that the drivers only have to use the prime and one of the options in the race, but they would have to nominate which tyres they wanted to use ahead of qualifying.