Have you ever play the GTR demo ? I think it's more sim that any other game i ever experience so far. I understand also that you like the GT series has being on the GT fansite but you have to realise there is other product on the market that are more "SIM" than GT4. If you drive in forza like you drive in GT4, you are bound to fail miserably. By comparing Forza to NFSU:2, you have lost any credibility of your post. Now i do like the GT4 series as much as anyone on this site but I do not swear only by it.