PlayStation 4 General DiscussionPS4

[ussr]

Did you just use a satirical video as proof of your nonsense claim that the PS4 hasn't been announced?

I don't want to argue with anyone who accept Sony's press conference when they shown only Dualshock controller. There were no actual game console, because it doesn't exist, it's only know on paper. But this still can change, even if sony would introduce they actual game console like it was during PS3 introduction. When they shown HDMI's outputs and USB's in large numbers, but the machine you could buy in stores was different due to budget cuts.

So imagine how easy is to change something that is still on paper. They did it with actual produced game console, well prototype.

I think i would be safer, for everyone who's accept their press conference as PS4 announcement. To think of it as of announcement of something else. What is it then, well it was a new controller.

Look I am a huge Sony fan-boy, and I've never had Microsoft game console. Playstation was always mine primary game machine even if it was sitting next to Gamecube. So i should be like you all, like yes they finally announced their new PS4, but the truth is they didn't. So at least i can think reasonably. When we all see what PS4 looks like and what i can do, then it will be announced as something that exist physically.

Ease off chaps.

 

[zzz_pt]

^ lol

 

[F1 fan]

I don't want to argue with anyone who accept Sony's press conference when they shown only Dualshock controller.

Because you're wrong. I could paste the dictionary definition of "announcement" again but it's just like talking to a brick wall. Either you're still back peddling to avoid paying up for the little bet you made (and lost) or you live in your own little fantasy universe where the world's most spoken language is being interpreted wrongly by everyone except you.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Holy crapy he is STILL going on about how that wasnt the announcement for the PS4?!

 

[sems4arsenal]

That Infiltraitor demo is beautiful .

 

[Saidur_Ali]

That Infiltraitor demo is beautiful .

It does look really good. I just hope Sony bump up their GPU a bit for final specifications so developers can get that extra wow factor out of it. Something more closer to 7870 would do fine.

 

[Samus]

It does look really good. I just hope Sony bump up their GPU a bit for final specifications so developers can get that extra wow factor out of it. Something more closer to 7870 would do fine.

Don't you think you're asking a bit much, they still retail to consumers for around $250, I don't know how big the discount would be to someone like Sony ordering in bulk but it would still surely be quite a big ask in a console that is reported to only cost around $400 total. Plus they would obviously be custom made.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Don't you think you're asking a bit much, they still retail to consumers for around $250, I don't know how big the discount would be to someone like Sony ordering in bulk but it would still surely be quite a big ask in a console that is reported to only cost around $400 total. Plus they would obviously be custom made.

Not really, currently it is quite good, I just think it is missing that little edge. Looking at specs leaked of 8000 series if they are true, I don't think it would cost Sony much for them kind of specs. The CPU has changed from last year but GPU still stays the same since initial dev kit. I do hope that they will bump it up. The profit margins AMD and Nvidia have on them GPUs must be one of the highest they ever had. Look at for example Nvidia Titan, they could probably sell that for £300 and make money on it.

 

[Eks]

Because you're wrong. I could paste the dictionary definition of "announcement" again but it's just like talking to a brick wall. Either you're still back peddling to avoid paying up for the little bet you made (and lost) or you live in your own little fantasy universe where the world's most spoken language is being interpreted wrongly by everyone except you.

I can kind of see where he's coming from though. There really is no PS4, just a PC with similar specs. I guess you could say they announced that it will exist, but it doesn't yet.

I don't know, really. I'm just trying to see it from his point of view.

 

[Samus]

You can still announce something without it existing though. If I announced today that in December i'll be launching a new version of my (hypothetical) app but I haven't even started working on it yet, I've still announced it. Or I could have completely finished it, it's ready to go but I don't show you it. I've still announced it.

It's a stupid argument, period.

 

[Sanji Himura]

I don't want to argue with anyone who accept Sony's press conference when they shown only Dualshock controller. There were no actual game console, because it doesn't exist, it's only know on paper. But this still can change, even if sony would introduce they actual game console like it was during PS3 introduction. When they shown HDMI's outputs and USB's in large numbers, but the machine you could buy in stores was different due to budget cuts.

So imagine how easy is to change something that is still on paper. They did it with actual produced game console, well prototype.

I think i would be safer, for everyone who's accept their press conference as PS4 announcement. To think of it as of announcement of something else. What is it then, well it was a new controller.

Look I am a huge Sony fan-boy, and I've never had Microsoft game console. Playstation was always mine primary game machine even if it was sitting next to Gamecube. So i should be like you all, like yes they finally announced their new PS4, but the truth is they didn't. So at least i can think reasonably. When we all see what PS4 looks like and what i can do, then it will be announced as something that exist physically.

Ease off chaps.

Okay, I could have insulted your intelligence here, but I must ask what else could Sony have done during the presser that would have made you happy? Don't answer that, because you clearly don't understand the strategy of not playing all of your cards at once. If the controller was the only thing announced during that conference, showing the console now would have played into Microsoft's hands when they came around to announcing the next X-Box.

They[MS] could have said their console is more powerful than the PS4, which even at this stage in the game they could have claimed if they improve specs.

Then there is the fact that all of the big game conferences are coming up, E3, Gamescom and Tokyo Game Show. If Sony didn't have anything in hardware to show, then it would be the worst launch in gaming.

 

[Luminis]

What's with all the talk about "improving specs"? Sure, you can increase the amount of RAM, add a few USB ports or HDMI outputs or something like that. But changing something that actually heavily affects processing power - the CPU and GPU first and foremost and to a lesser extend, the motherboard - isn't something you can do on the fly. You've got to set all of the components up properly so you're not overshooting your goals for power consumption and heat. You'd have to adapt the operating system, probably even stuff like the API. And you'd have to produce and send out dev kits to the developers as well as produce enough consoles in time for a launch.

Microsoft will, at this point, most likely be producing the consoles already, as is Sony, I'd assume. There's only one explanation as to why specs you're seeing revealed now would differ greatly from the final product: The revealed specs were wrong, intentionally or unintentionally.

So, yeah, I'd consider it a proper announcement the moment Sony comes out and tells us exactly what sort of hardware we're dealing with.

UE4 Elemental Demo (PS4 extended version, decrease in particle effects amongst other things)

I wonder whether they had to dumb the tech demo down due to lack of time to actually optimise it properly or whether that's due to the PS4 actually not being able to handle it with all the bells and whistles.

Would be a shame if it can't compete with a 2012 GPU (even though it's an expensive one) despite proper optimisation.

 

[Sanji Himura]

What's with all the talk about "improving specs"? Sure, you can increase the amount of RAM, add a few USB ports or HDMI outputs or something like that. But changing something that actually heavily affects processing power - the CPU and GPU first and foremost and to a lesser extend, the motherboard - isn't something you can do on the fly. You've got to set all of the components up properly so you're not overshooting your goals for power consumption and heat. You'd have to adapt the operating system, probably even stuff like the API. And you'd have to produce and send out dev kits to the developers as well as produce enough consoles in time for a launch.

Microsoft will, at this point, most likely be producing the consoles already, as is Sony, I'd assume. There's only one explanation as to why specs you're seeing revealed now would differ greatly from the final product: The revealed specs were wrong, intentionally or unintentionally.

So, yeah, I'd consider it a proper announcement the moment Sony comes out and tells us exactly what sort of hardware we're dealing with.

I think that everyone can agree that MS can improve specs by ditching DDR3 RAM and going to DDR5.

 

[lemansfanatic]

deleted

 

[Ddrizle]

I wonder whether they had to dumb the tech demo down due to lack of time to actually optimise it properly or whether that's due to the PS4 actually not being able to handle it with all the bells and whistles.

Would be a shame if it can't compete with a 2012 GPU (even though it's an expensive one) despite proper optimisation.

Indeed, I'm also curious to know on what hardware build/spec(old, recent, final) that PS4 demo was running on.

 

[Luminis]

I think that everyone can agree that MS can improve specs by ditching DDR3 RAM and going to DDR5.

They'd probably have to rework the north bridge to actually cope with the increased speed of the RAM, which, then, would require changes to be made for the south bridge as well, which, in turn, would require changes to be made to the input/output devices.

Just like you can't just plug faster RAM into a PC's motherboard. If the board doesn't support the RAM's clock, you won't get anywhere. My RAM for example could technically run at 2133 MHz, but if you get a motherboard/CPU combination that can't support that, you'd have to run it at something like 1600 MHz and completely waste the money you put into the upgrade.

Now, I don't mean to be rude. But if you think that MS could just plug in DDR5 RAM and that's all they'd need to do to get some more power out of the next Xbox, then I'd have to tell you that you probably don't understand how complex a computer system is. Especially something like a console, which, as opposed to a regular PC, isn't build around modules but is designed as a single unit. And Microsoft wouldn't be designing a north bridge and a south bridge that can deal with both DDR3 and DDR5 RAM equally well and input/output devices and APIs to work with both configurations in advance because Sony might have the more powerful console. The R&D costs would be a tremenduous waste.

If they wanted to make sure they've got the more powerful console, they could've designed the system around a more powerful CPU/GPU combination in the first place. Sony and MS both going for a very similar low-end CPU solution and a derivate based on a mid-range GPU clearly shows that they're not in an arms race, any ways.

So, please, try to understand that "upgrading" the hardware specs of the consoles to trump each is other is nothing that can be done on the fly. It's nothing that's as easy as just plugging better stuff into the console. Any major change to the hardware causes a chain reaction that needs solving and testing if you want to release a console that's actually up to your standards (which it needs to be if you don't want to lose lots of cash due to warranty claims and bad PR). Also understand that this generation has never been an arms race for the most powerful hardware, not with both companies deciding to base their consoles on almost identical hardware.

There is one reason to withhold some of the hardware specs, and that is marketing. It faciliates rumours and speculation. Making five announcements instead of one will get you five times as much media exposure, too.

Indeed, I'm also curious to know on what hardware build/spec(old, recent, final) that PS4 demo was running on.

I'd be suprised if the specs are drastically different from the final build. There might be some minor differences, but that's it, I'd assume. I would think that more dedicated developers like Naughty Dog could coax more out of the PS4's hardware.

 

[LaBounti]

The new generation of gamers are literally obsessed with specs and irrelevant hardware comparisons. And they have absolutely no sense of how much better a new system is compared to the one that it replaces(Wiiu/PS4). I miss the PS1 days.

PS4 cannot launch soon enough.

My nice HD7870 PC sits because I can't get an email verification to play on my shiny new system. So impractical....

 

[Samus]

I think that everyone can agree that MS can improve specs by ditching DDR3 RAM and going to DDR5.

GDDR5. It is an important difference. Mainly because there is no such thing as DDR5, not yet anyway.

 

[Luminis]

The new generation of gamers are literally obsessed with specs and irrelevant hardware comparisons. And they have absolutely no sense of how much better a new system is compared to the one that it replaces(Wiiu/PS4). I miss the PS1 days.

Really?

From my experience, that goes for a bunch of enthusiats. Specs are important to win flamewars and internet battles, but that's largely it. Some folks (like myself) care about the specs and start to lose interest as soon as the console can't even run tech demos as well as my current PC could. However, from what I've heard and read from the broader audience... Well, frankly, they just go "Woooow, x times more powerful than PS3, that is so awesome!" and throw some bits of the hardware specs around without knowing what they're talking about.

You can catch a glimpse of that in this very thread. Now, this is not intended as a dig, I hope nobody tales offense from what I'm saying. Most people don't really know how a Jaguar octocore stacks up to current desktop CPUs or whether getting two TFLOPS from a GPU is a lot or not. And that's perfectly fine. They might throw these terms around and be happy about them, but do they realise that two TFLOPS isn't exactly an incredible feat? It's a decent performance, don't get me wrong, but is it mindblowing? Well, no. Not when graphics cards that retail for less than 200 bucks (HD7870, GTX660) are outputting 2.2 TFLOPS before being overclocked (which can be easily done, as manufacturers are producing the cards with that in mind). Keeping in mind that I'm not yet even entirely sure whether the two TFLOPS are the total system output or the GPU's output doesn't make that any better (I'm leaning towards the second option, given that these two TFLOPS were rumoured to be the overall system output for a while).

Again, this is not intended to be a dig or anything and I don't doubt that the PS4's specs are good enough for the time being, even though I would've liked to see a bit more crammed into it. Granted, Sony has made it clear that they're trying to get the PS4 to generate profit on hardware sales right from the launch, much like the Wii did for Nintendo. This, obviously, means that monster hardware is out of the picture, which is okay. I, for one, do care. But most people I've talked to? No.

They cite the specs and are excited about how much more powerful they are than the PS3. Whether that's a lot more powerful or compares to the jumps that were previously made is largely irrelevant. Basically, they're citing what Sony's marketing deparptment is telling them. Now, that's all well and good, but is that what you call "obsessed with specs"? I'd call it good marketing on Sony's part. If someone was obsessed with specs, he'd be able to put them into perspective.

My nice HD7870 PC sits because I can't get an email verification to play on my shiny new system. So impractical....

What's so hard about setting an e-mail account up?

Not yet confirmed :
battlefield-4-sticks-720p60-fps-nextgen-consoles-frostbite-25-game-details-leaked-arriving-november-2013/

Battlefield 4 Gets Frosbite 2.5 Engine – Destruction 4.0, Tessellation, Dynamic Weather Affects
In our previous article, we mentioned how the next generation Battlefield 4 would utilize 80% of the Frostbite engine’s power compared to 30% utilization in Battlefield 3. The new Frostbite 2.5 engine would feature much more enhanced visuals with PC being the lead platform for the game. According to the details, Battlefield 4 would maintain a steady 60 FPS on 720P resolution on both next generation consoles which include the PS4 and Xbox 720 which is a slight bit of a disappointment since earlier rumors suggested 1080P/60 FPS target for the next-gen consoles. However, the next generation consoles including the PC would get 64 players while the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 would stick to the default 24 player setup which is currently seen on Battlefield 4.

Next-gen consoles not being able to do 1080p/60FPS. Sounds great, doesn't it? Wonder how much they'll be lagging behind an average gamer PC in two or three years' time.

 

[shadynader]

Next-gen consoles not being able to do 1080p/60FPS. Sounds great, doesn't it? Wonder how much they'll be lagging behind an average gamer PC in two or three years' time.

Your basing the whole next gen on a yet to be confirmed resolution of one game?

 

[LaBounti]

Your basing the whole next gen on a yet to be confirmed resolution of one game?

This is same problem I have on youtube. Trying figure out why so many PC gamers are so closed minded. This is what sparked my comment and he thinks exactly like the PC gamers on youtube that respond all the same way. They generalize PC games as if there is one way to play, one single PC that all pc gamers run the same on.

earlier rumors suggested 1080P/60 FPS target

So one rumor is conflicting another?

What's so hard about setting an e-mail account up?

Nothing, its the principle and i was frustrated as I was typing.

 

[Luminis]

Nothing, its the principle and i was frustrated as I was typing.

Isn't that the same with PSN?

Your basing the whole next gen on a yet to be confirmed resolution of one game?

Not quite. The resolution of that one game is merely a symptom. I've been making that point for far longer than that was known. I've said as much as soon as the specs were rumoured for the first time and I think you could find the posts I made about these concerns if you were to dig a bit deeper into this thread.

 

[shadynader]

A symptom of what exactly? I don't get what your saying to be honest... That a console with specs that will no doubt reflect the price point is not on the cutting edge? Shock Horror!!!

Ok Luminis what would you do? Your Sony head honcho with both Directors and Gamers to impress. GO!

 

[LaBounti]

Isn't that the same with PSN?

No, I don't have to sign up, register or validate an email every time I want to download and play a new game on PSN or re-validate to play on a different system like in my case. Its like steam, one account for all.

 

[Luminis]

A symptom of what exactly? I don't get what your saying to be honest... That a console with specs that will no doubt reflect the price point is not on the cutting edge? Shock Horror!!!

Symptom might have been the wrong word. Let's just say that it's the natural result of the given hardware. And yes, the point is that the console might not even be able to provide us with full HD and 60 FPS. Doing that isn't cutting edge to me, it's more or less what should be the industry standard. I hate going from my PC to my 360 to look at 720p resolution and I dislike the idea of that being the case for another six years when full HD has largely become a standard now.

Ok Luminis what would you do? Your Sony head honcho with both Directors and Gamers to impress. GO!

I'd drop stuff like the touch pad on the controller and such, but otherwise would end up with a similar console. As a matter of fact, I'd just market the crap out of the console to sell it because, frankly, only a select few people actually care about how powerful it is and whether or not it's able to run full HD years after it became pretty much standard. Doesn't matter to me as long as there are enough people buying the console.

See, the thing is that I can perfectly understand why Sony is creating the console the way it is. Doesn't change the fact that I'm not happy with a console that seemingly can't do full HD because the hardware is that limited. Knowing that Sony is in no position to sell hardware at a loss like they did with the PS3 doesn't mean that I wouldn't have liked them to do that so that there would at least be a distinct possiblity of 1080/60 on the PS4.

No, I don't have to sign up, register or validate an email every time I want to download and play a new game on PSN or re-validate to play on a different system like in my case. Its like steam, one account for all.

I've got to be honest, I rarely play games that require stuff aside from Steam, so that's pretty much the situation I'm in Battle.net aside, that is.

 

[shadynader]

I guess we are just gonna have to wait and see but the hardware is more than capable to churn out those numbers. It is down to the developers on how they use that power.

 

[Luminis]

I hope so. Developers also should be able to town down stuff like anti aliasing in order to get games to run at full HD resolution and 60 FPS, should need be.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I think Sony and Microsoft can change things quite quickly if they wanted to as AMD do all the leg work and have already all the technology in place to be able to chop and change things. I think only a few people in Sony know the specs they are aiming for in final hardware / SKU and I guess that is the case with Microsoft.

One good thing about consoles staying low end is power consumption and size of console will keep them really small at launch and cheap to buy. Funny thing is, both consoles will probably take slightly more or less power and be smaller in size than the first slim versions of their respective current generation consoles.

Regarding resolution and frame rate, I think most games will be at least 1080p 30FPS and quite a lot will be 1080p 60FPS.

 

[Luminis]

I think Sony and Microsoft can change things quite quickly if they wanted to as AMD do all the leg work and have already all the technology in place to be able to chop and change things. I think only a few people in Sony know the specs they are aiming for in final hardware / SKU and I guess that is the case with Microsoft.

And you honestly do think AMD can just mess about with changed hardware, just like that? You knowm without properly testing it in a console application (which PC components aren't made for) first? "Yeah, let's stick one of these CPUs here in it, who cares that there's no proper CPU fan to cool it and that the small dimensions of the console will hamper heat dissipation, it's under Sony's warranty, not ours!"

And it again doesn't change the fact that you've actually got to produce a significant amount of consoles before launch. Much like a game can't be changed a week prior to release as the DVDs/Blurays are already being produced. Once the console goes "gold" it won't be changed. And there's not going to be an announcement prior to that, that's for sure.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

And you honestly do think AMD can just mess about with changed hardware, just like that? You knowm without properly testing it in a console application (which PC components aren't made for) first? "Yeah, let's stick one of these CPUs here in it, who cares that there's no proper CPU fan to cool it and that the small dimensions of the console will hamper heat dissipation, it's under Sony's warranty, not ours!"

And it again doesn't change the fact that you've actually got to produce a significant amount of consoles before launch. Much like a game can't be changed a week prior to release as the DVDs/Blurays are already being produced. Once the console goes "gold" it won't be changed. And there's not going to be an announcement prior to that, that's for sure.

AMD are working jointly with both Sony and Microsoft. If there are changes, they will be requested from both sides. Developers have have not yet received final development kits yet so specifications have not been fully decided yet.

Hardware is not in final part of production yet I would assume. Decision to upgrade hardware or not would be known already only by a select few within Sony and Microsoft for their respective consoles. It will also likely remain confidential with select AMD employees who are working on the hardware to make sure things aren't leaked.

They don't need to test if games will work on same architecture CPU or GPU, if it is more powerful, it will give developers more headroom. Case size and internals such as cooling is probably still work in progress and getting close to final design to be ready for production soon. The final result will most likely be what they intended all along while keeping it secret for as long as possible. We should hopefully have all secrets revealed by the end of E3 this year.