PlayStation 5 Pro: Coming November 2024, $700/€800

  • Thread starter Jtheripper
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Yeah, if this can eradicate pointless console performance modes and just blanket 4k60 everything then that must be a win
It won't.

brings it in line with a top PC
It absolutely won't, unless you're talking about a top PC from 2019.



The main benefit from the PS5 Pro so far remains to be the Sony-developed actual hardware support for AI upscaling instead of AMD's smeary shimmery FSR2 "solution." Otherwise (and I'm not discounting that because good AI upscaling technology is a legitimate large advancement) this has so far sounded like a significantly smaller leap in performance (primarily due to AMD's overall stagnation in the GPU space since the PS5/SeX were designed) than the Pro consoles got last console generation.

I wonder how much they will charge for this even without a disk drive... considering the standard PS5 actually costs more now than it did when i bought mine 6 months after launch.
And they just announced they are raising the price of the regular PS5 again for the Japanese market.
 
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Believe it or not but the PS5 is not powerful enough to drive PSVR2 without significant lowering of resolution. Improvements here so that distance drawing is not so soft (lower resolution) and so that you do not get image pop up at drawing distance would improve the experience a lot. Also eliminating Foveated rendering would improve screen capture when in VR. Currently it is only in HD resolution with the periphery looks like something that was digitized from a 10 year old VHS tape..
On the contrary, I also play GT7 exclusively in VR and I don't think the foveated rendering is that big a deal considering how amazing GT7 is to play in VR. The only instance when the rendering method gets in the way is when saving a gameplay video, which I don't often do. The draw distance could be improved, but it's not enough to shatter immersion and definitely not enough to get me to drop several hundred dollars again for a new console that won't dramatically improve my gaming experience.
 
I might buy it, it all depends on what happens with it,
Gt7 will no doubt take advantage, and we proably get a massive update to go alongside ps5 pro,

Proably get fully revealed at Tokyo gameshow, and maybe some peak at the Tokyo live events.

Could be intresting to see if psvr2 gets any improvments, i do think it looks great in gt7 already on ps5, but the draw distance could maybe be improved, but it really feels immersive still on ps5.

Maybe we see raytracing during gameplay as well.
 
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But a PS5Pro wont change that without any "Pro optimized update" to the game.
I am sure Sony will make all its first party studios provide such updates, as they need to convince PS5 owners that an upgrade is worthwile. For GT7 (and PSVR2 in particular) I have seen a number of people mention here and elsewhere that they would buy the Pro in a heartbeat if only it would improve VR performance (count me as one of them), and Sony knows this. It may not be a big part of the consumer base, but a very enthusiastic one.
 
On the contrary, I also play GT7 exclusively in VR and I don't think the foveated rendering is that big a deal considering how amazing GT7 is to play in VR. The only instance when the rendering method gets in the way is when saving a gameplay video, which I don't often do. The draw distance could be improved, but it's not enough to shatter immersion and definitely not enough to get me to drop several hundred dollars again for a new console that won't dramatically improve my gaming experience.
I do record and save every sport race I'm in so I tend to notice it.
I absolutely cant unsee the short LOD range of GT7.
But a PS5Pro wont change that without any "Pro optimized update" to the game.
Agree and true.
 
The main benefit from the PS5 Pro so far remains to be the Sony-developed actual hardware support for AI upscaling instead of AMD's smeary shimmery FSR2 "solution." Otherwise (and I'm not discounting that because good AI upscaling technology is a legitimate large advancement) this has so far sounded like a significantly smaller leap in performance (primarily due to AMD's overall stagnation in the GPU space since the PS5/SeX were designed) than the Pro consoles got last console generation.
PS4 Pro offered little more than higher resolutions, usually 1080p to 1440P, with Checkerboard Rendering to bring it to 4k. There where few if any technical or graphical improvements beyond that. For non-enhanced games there was a Boost Mode that stabilised performance.

There are numerous anecdotal statements from developers about PS5 Pro. One suggesting there will be a 100% real world performance improvement, another stating a 1080p/60 game on PS5 can run at 4k/60/RT on PS5 Pro (with PSSR help). With a 40% GPU bump, 2-3x better RT and PSSR, we should be able to see titles like Spider-Man 2 with Quality mode visuals and Performance mode framerates. In all likelihood there will be better RT effects and clearer image quality thanks to PSSR.

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest, with sensible console optimisations, we could see real world performance that compares favourably to a 4070. Expectations should be more guarded when it comes to framerates, then again most titles aren't CPU bound, we have many 60/120fps modes. Unlike PS4 Pro which required new certification to utilise features like Checkerboard Rendering, PSSR can be deployed with a regular patch. It's likely we'll see a significant number of older titles with PSSR implementation. This should boost resolution, improve image quality, maybe even a form of frame reconstruction.
Personally I don't think I like these mid-generation upgrades. You spend £500 odd on a PS5 to futureproof as much as anything, then a couple of years later there's a better one. I suspect people with loads of disposable money don't mind, but those of us with two kids and a big mortgage to pay maybe less so. Because obviously, ideally I'd definitely get one.

How much do people pay for kidneys these days?
The original PS5 is coming upto 4 years on the market. On eBay an original PS5 goes for around £300, the PS5 Slim nearer £350. I suspect most PS5 Pro buyers will be trading in to subsidise their purchase.
 
Let me get this out of the way first:

we should be able to see titles like Spider-Man 2 with Quality mode visuals and Performance mode framerates. In all likelihood there will be better RT effects and clearer image quality thanks to PSSR.
It's likely we'll see a significant number of older titles with PSSR implementation. This should boost resolution, improve image quality, maybe even a form of frame reconstruction.
another stating a 1080p/60 game on PS5 can run at 4k/60/RT on PS5 Pro (with PSSR help).
PSSR (even though it's odd you're harping on it when I went out of my way to note that it's the main centerpiece of this console) isn't going to be a cure for performance. It will look better because Sony presumably didn't spend all that time shortcutting AMD's own solution to make something just as bad, and it should look even better still if the inherent GPU improvements increase any dynamic base resolution or the developer increases the base resolution through a patch, but even DLSS by itself isn't more performant than FSR. There's a possibility that the PS5 Pro will support something like a more advanced AMFM 2 over the current consoles since it has some level of RDNA 3 feature set, but the rollout of that has been a bit of an embarrassment for AMD, it's not nearly as good as actual frame generation by the game engine regardless and because of the graphical degradation developers might be against its implementation.
PS4 Pro offered little more than higher resolutions, usually 1080p to 1440P, with Checkerboard Rendering to bring it to 4k. There where few if any technical or graphical improvements beyond that. For non-enhanced games there was a Boost Mode that stabilised performance.
The PS4 Pro was not the only Pro console last generation; but regardless of that I don't really agree with your summation of the PS4 Pro either when it came out in the context of market situations that don't apply to the PS5 Pro. A PS4 Pro using checkerboard rendering to display a 1440P HDR image on a 4K display looked significantly better in practice than just using a regular PS4 on the same TV (and indeed was the main selling point) and arguably better than the FSR that everyone has been subjected to this console generation instead. There were also more than a handful of games with awful performance on the regular PS4 that were improved to an at least stable 30FPS on it (with the conceit that no miracles were going to be done with that terrible CPU). Sub-30 FPS in comparison has rarely been a problem on the current generation; nor do the current consoles (even the launch PS5) sound like a leaf blower trying to play games like a PS4 did.

The sales pitch for the PS5 Pro is considerably weaker so far in comparison in the context of what its advancements are in practice and how much the base PS5 still costs (and possibly will remain costing past when the PS5 Pro launches).

With a 40% GPU bump,
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest, with sensible console optimisations, we could see real world performance that compares favourably to a 4070.
Assuming the first statement is true in practice (it has been said elsewhere, and even when this is still a thermally and power constrained box being developed off of an architecture of an entire GPU generation spinning its wheels, that's a reasonable jump from what essentially falls between a 6700 and a 6700XT), that doesn't bring it close to a 4070. Not even in rasterization (ignoring that a ~40% improvement would be very quickly eaten up if developers went resolution hunting with it), but certainly not overall when:
2-3x better RT
2-3x of "virtually worthless to the extent that the person who designed the console was surprised developers bothered using it" is a pretty low bar to clear, and as far as I've read the RT improvements in the Pro are still from the AMD side rather than Sony's. The RT performance of the PS5 Pro will not be anything approaching an nVidia 40x0 card. Hopefully, maybe, it will push up to Ampere levels if they indeed stuck some post-RDNA 3 architecture into its design. But the "2-3x better RT" is in fact extremely similar/identical to the rumors about RDNA 3 desktop performance before it launched. People have even been mindlessly throwing around TFLOPS numbers for the PS5 Pro just like they were with RDNA3 after they were announced.




The fact of the matter is that this won't have nVidia hardware in it. AMD can only barely brute force ray tracing performance past a 2080ti on their card that costs twice as much as a PS5 and uses half again more power than the entire console. AMD has dropped the ball so badly on hardware acceleration for modern GPU features besides raw rasterization that even Intel basically leapfrogged them in a single generation. It's not going to be a huge increase in RT performance bringing it on par with upper end PC hardware. It's not going to turn the PS5 into a default 4k/60/RT box; and certainly not as developers/publishers are finally abandoning support for the PS4 and Xbone and thus don't have to try and make games scale down enough so PC hardware that was bad in 2013 won't shrivel up and die.
The gains being made are being made primarily because of the heavy lifting Sony is doing through PSSR and any API level optimizations for this new hardware to make the development process easier to implement the new feature set; because after what essentially amounted to a wasted generation of products that had a very long rollout AMD is barely ahead of where they were in 2020 when these consoles first came out but still have to operate within the same pricing and power constraints of a console that they did in 2020. AMD also have to operate under those constraints with newer silicon that is even more expensive even though Sony has repeatedly insisted that the production costs of the consoles from 2020 haven't gone down. You'll have games that run better. You'll have games that look better. You'll probably even have games that do both, especially depending on how good PSSR actually manages to be and especially first party titles. But it's pretty telling that the rumors regarding how all it takes to get a "PS5 Pro" sticker on your game box have been:
  • Higher resolution or
  • Higher framerate or
  • Additional raytracing support
 
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There's a lot of talk about graphical improvements over the PS5 Regular, but for me the biggest improvement would be bigger internal storage as standard. 2TB minimum. I know its a simple procedure to buy and install on the PS5 and Slim, and common upgrade but it's also an extra £150 (for 2TB at current prices). I don't think improved framerate and/or raytracing are going to be enough of a selling point. It needs to be marketed (to parents - given the likelyhood of its release window) to have improved features that are more easily quantifiable.
 
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This is a day 1 buy for me. The coolest looking console gets even cooler.

I'll take midyear refreshes over underpowered launches like the One S any day.
 
If I can transfer my PS4 GT7 save to it then I miiight be interested. My OG PS4 is getting on a bit now.
You can freely transfer GT7 saves to and from any console whenever you want.

Largely because it's stored remotely and you just log into it.
 
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PlayStation 5 Pro Performance Will Be Close To 7700 XT in Rasterization, Faster In Ray Tracing – Rumor​



Not that's it's a like for like comparison, but seems to be between a 4060TI and 4070.

Then we'll have to see how PSSR compares to DLSS and other AI solutions on the market.



 
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PlayStation 5 Pro Performance Will Be Close To 7700 XT in Rasterization, Faster In Ray Tracing – Rumor​



Not that's it's a like for like comparison, but seems to be between a 4060TI and 4070.

Then we'll have to see how PSSR compares to DLSS and other AI solutions on the market.




If true, and there's enough CPU overhead, PSSR might be able to get it over the line for path tracing in Cyberpunk at 1080p/60 FPS, if it's about or as good as DLSS. Combine that with a VRR update for the game and it might actually be quite good. I saw someone running a 4060 Ti with path tracing at 1080p/60-ish, although one person said they were using frame generation, not sure about the second. "Native frames" at 60 FPS at 1080p would be a dream imo, given the hardware. And a 4K option for screenshots only would be wonderful.

I don't think AMD's ray tracing units work as efficiently as NVIDIA's, IIRC, but maybe Sony can put some special sauce in there in that sense. If it has rasterisation and RT performance in the middle of a 4060 Ti and 4070, that might do it, for path traced Cyberpunk at 1080p/60.

Still have no idea how they even got path tracing working so soon, for a game this big. Nutty. Looks insane, though.

Thanks for posting this!
 
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"1080p/60 path tracing from a tweaked 7700XT"

Yeah, if you misplaced a decimal.

1725351475342.png


But hey there's that huge boost performance over the 6700XT the PS5 (almost) has in it now!
 
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Saw this new rumor, with specs etc, anyone know if legit?
Says for nov 2024 release at 599$ us, nov 2023 dev kits..
Its nice for improved rt 60fps hopefully, but i would hope it not be an excuse to stop having a 60fps mode on base ps5.
I just bought a ps5 though, sigh.. lol.

Microsoft leaked rumour to attempt stem the flood of PS5 defections since their soft exit from the hardware business..

It's not the first time they have been caught doing such things.. they have track record for it. It's scumbag marketing 101.
 
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I'm sure in your head it made sense to respond to a 14 month old post that has since been all but confirmed in order to push nonsense conspiracy theories.
 
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"1080p/60 path tracing from a tweaked 7700XT"

Yeah, if you misplaced a decimal.

View attachment 1386156

But hey there's that huge boost performance over the 6700XT the PS5 (almost) has in it now!
You missed the part where I specified with PSSR, under the condition it’s about as good as DLSS. And I went over how the RT cores in AMD’s cards might not be as efficient as NVIDIA’s, so it might need to rely on some extra sauce from Sony in that area, whether or not they add some, we obviously won’t know until it has a technical breakdown/the performance figures come in. Of course, on its own, it won’t get path tracing done. I think the sarcasm was unnecessary.
 
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You missed the part where I specified with PSSR, under the condition it’s about as good as DLSS.
I didn't miss anything. We already know that won't happen because it doesn't happen with FSR. You can't use FSR to miracle a 7700XT into 1080p/60 performance in Cyperpunk with path tracing turned on, even if you use FSR Performance and turn the image quality into the equivalent of an Unreal game before the textures fully load. 8 fps is not going to turn into 60 in a game that hammers both parts of a system so hard.



What do you think DLSS and XESS and (in theory) PSSR bring to the table over the FSR that the PS5/SeX can already use? Because it's not more performance.

And I went over how the RT cores in AMD’s cards might not be as efficient as NVIDIA’s
"RT cores" aren't a thing in AMD cards to begin with, so you didn't really go over much.

, so it might need to rely on some extra sauce from Sony in that area,
We would have heard about it by know, that's not what the link posted above says either, that's not what all of the rumors about the console's performance to this point have suggested and it's a bold assumption to make that Sony has particular expertise on that type of hardware to begin with. 2-3ish times the RT performance (depending on load) of the RDNA2-based PS5 is consistently what we've been hearing all the way back when rumors of the console were first coming out. It's literally in the OP of this thread from July of 2023. That brings it roughly in line with what the gains could be on the RDNA3 architecture, give or take.
The problem is, of course, that RDNA2's raytracing performance was so putrid that it generally defied any point in enabling it at all, and for RDNA3 the truly heavy raytracing loads are mainly better compared to the flagship RTX graphics cards from 2018 because the upper tier AMD cards have double the rasterization performance so they have frames to burn. The PS5 Pro will be able to do significantly more in RT than the base console (it basically would have to), but it's not going to turn into a path tracing machine on a budget. Nothing so far has suggested it will substantially outperform equivalent AMD desktop graphics cards (nor does that link or any of the previous rumors say it will). Nothing rumored to this point has suggested a massive overall leap for what can be accomplished on consoles. AMD does not have the performance for that even with their best cards because they backed the wrong horse with RDNA3; and a card made to a price and thermal target to fit in a PS5-sized box is far away from being their best card. They've done nothing since to suggest that they could achieve that performance either, shrinking away from the challenge with the RDNA3 cards and then being beset with constant rumors that their flagship cards of the Navi 41 have been canceled.

I think the sarcasm was unnecessary.
What sarcasm? You implied something could be the case that is easily demonstrably untrue, and I corrected it while also jokingly referring to how it fulfilled the rumored 2x raytracing performance increase. Among other things in your post that I could have corrected but weren't relevant were your bringing up the 4060ti (a notably weaker card than a 7700XT that nonetheless is more performant when you start piling on raytracing) as being capable of 4k/60 PT (which it also really isn't, even with DLSS3) or talking about whether CPU headroom (which is in increasingly short supply this console generation as it is and which doesn't look like it will be upgraded by much in the PS5 Pro) would allow the PS5 Pro to have any difference at all in raytracing performance. If you feel I was too forceful in my rebuttal then perhaps you should have read the post I made all of 4 days ago first; where I already had explained the reasons some of the things you're suggesting might be possible are not reasonable to believe and why they aren't. We know what to expect from an RDNA 3-based system. We know what to expect from the raytracing performance of RDNA3. We saw similar claims about RDNA 3 as we are for the PS5 Pro when the architecture itself hadn't come out yet. We seemingly know the ballpark card that the PS5 Pro will have similar performance to. We can estimate the performance uplift the PS5 Pro will have over the base PS5 if the rumored hardware in the new system is accurate. We can estimate how much of a benefit for performance PSSR will be over trying to run games at higher native resolutions instead.


The main thing we don't know about the system is how good PSSR will be on launch. If Sony can accomplish something near DLSS 2.0 levels of image quality then the PS5 Pro will be a far more substantial boost over the PS5 than going from a 6700 to a 7700XT would normally be on paper. It could maybe even in practice be a leap to the level of Xbone to XBone X last generation. If it has the teething pains that DLSS went through, then the 40% rasterization performance uplift you'd normally get from a ~6700 to a ~7700XT will very often be the only framework developers have to work within until Sony gets it to a point where using it doesn't lead to a decrease in image quality like it frequently does for FSR2.
 
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I didn't miss anything. We already know that won't happen because it doesn't happen with FSR. You can't use FSR to miracle a 7700XT into 1080p/60 performance in Cyperpunk with path tracing turned on, even if you use FSR Performance and turn the image quality into the equivalent of an Unreal game before the textures fully load. 8 fps is not going to turn into 60 in a game that hammers both parts of a system so hard.



What do you think DLSS and XESS and (in theory) PSSR bring to the table over the FSR that the PS5/SeX can already use? Because it's not more performance.


"RT cores" aren't a thing in AMD cards to begin with, so you didn't really go over much.


We would have heard about it by know, that's not what the link posted above says either, that's not what all of the rumors about the console's performance to this point have suggested and it's a bold assumption to make that Sony has particular expertise on that type of hardware to begin with. 2-3ish times the RT performance (depending on load) of the RDNA2-based PS5 is consistently what we've been hearing all the way back when rumors of the console were first coming out. It's literally in the OP of this thread from July of 2023. That brings it roughly in line with what the gains could be on the RDNA3 architecture, give or take.
The problem is, of course, that RDNA2's raytracing performance was so putrid that it generally defied any point in enabling it at all, and for RDNA3 the truly heavy raytracing loads are mainly better compared to the flagship RTX graphics cards from 2018 because the upper tier AMD cards have double the rasterization performance so they have frames to burn. The PS5 Pro will be able to do significantly more in RT than the base console (it basically would have to), but it's not going to turn into a path tracing machine on a budget. Nothing so far has suggested it will substantially outperform equivalent AMD desktop graphics cards (nor does that link or any of the previous rumors say it will). Nothing rumored to this point has suggested a massive overall leap for what can be accomplished on consoles. AMD does not have the performance for that even with their best cards because they backed the wrong horse with RDNA3; and a card made to a price and thermal target to fit in a PS5-sized box is far away from being their best card. They've done nothing since to suggest that they could achieve that performance either, shrinking away from the challenge with the RDNA3 cards and then being beset with constant rumors that their flagship cards of the Navi 41 have been canceled.


What sarcasm? You implied something could be the case that is easily demonstrably untrue, and I corrected it while also jokingly referring to how it fulfilled the rumored 2x raytracing performance increase. Among other things in your post that I could have corrected but weren't relevant were your bringing up the 4060ti (a notably weaker card than a 7700XT that nonetheless is more performant when you start piling on raytracing) as being capable of 4k/60 PT (which it also really isn't, even with DLSS3) or talking about whether CPU headroom (which is in increasingly short supply this console generation as it is and which doesn't look like it will be upgraded by much in the PS5 Pro) would allow the PS5 Pro to have any difference at all in raytracing performance. If you feel I was too forceful in my rebuttal then perhaps you should have read the post I made all of 4 days ago first; where I already had explained the reasons some of the things you're suggesting might be possible are not reasonable to believe and why they aren't. We know what to expect from an RDNA 3-based system. We know what to expect from the raytracing performance of RDNA3. We saw similar claims about RDNA 3 as we are for the PS5 Pro when the architecture itself hadn't come out yet. We seemingly know the ballpark card that the PS5 Pro will have similar performance to. We can estimate the performance uplift the PS5 Pro will have over the base PS5 if the rumored hardware in the new system is accurate. We can estimate how much of a benefit for performance PSSR will be over trying to run games at higher native resolutions instead.


The main thing we don't know about the system is how good PSSR will be on launch. If Sony can accomplish something near DLSS 2.0 levels of image quality then the PS5 Pro will be a far more substantial boost over the PS5 than going from a 6700 to a 7700XT would normally be on paper. It could maybe even in practice be a leap to the level of Xbone to XBone X last generation. If it has the teething pains that DLSS went through, then the 40% rasterization performance uplift you'd normally get from a ~6700 to a ~7700XT will very often be the only framework developers have to work within until Sony gets it to a point where using it doesn't lead to a decrease in image quality like it frequently does for FSR2.
Alright, I defer to you. I'm not an expert, it was my semi-educated guess and looking at the cards and people's experience with RT Overdrive.

IDK, maybe I misread it. Just seemed a bit snarky, especially with the 6700 XT comment. But it's fine, whether it was or whether it wasn't, water under the bridge.

I see I didn't account for all the factors and wasn't properly informed. My apologies. Thanks for the informative post.
 
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I’m so excited for the PS5 Pro, been holding off this current gen PlayStation since I already own a PS4 Pro and that one can handle GT7 quite good. But I want the higher fidelity and PSVR2 as well. Been waiting for a step-up from the regular PS5 for years now. 😅😎
 
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My wife was not too happy when I upgraded from my white PS4Pro (coming from the FAT PS3), to the PS5 with PSVR2

And now, I might have to update to PS5Pro ?!
For me, in my case, it will be Only worth it if there is GT8 and pSvR3

Otherwise I will hang on the PS5, because I am quite happy with the current performance of GT7...



Hype train.... Get on board... Nevertheless
 
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Ditto, there'll have to be a real world difference, like a noticeable upgrade, for me to actually buy one. I never bothered with the PS4 Pro, but on the flipside I bought an Xbox One X because I felt it was a genuine upgrade without getting my magnifying glass out. I'm on the fence. I still love my One X. It was a huge jump from the original Xbone.
 
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I use my ps5 daily, but even then not sure if it will be even worth upgrading,
Still a good thing its coming because then gt7 could benefit with a larger update to go alongside it,
 
I don’t use my PS5 enough to justify upgrading, but I’m interested to see what it has.
From the leaked specs it seems to just be a PS5 with maybe enough extra power to bump some Ray Tracing effects up from 30fps to 60fps. So I wouldn't be expecting anything transformative.

I'm currently on a base OG PS4, so that's a bit more of a step up.
 
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